Hinduism - Is not a religion, Way of Life. Whats it?

[pvraman]

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Dear Sri Nachi Naga,

I too feel the same. "Name Sake Brahmin". So that's why I set about asking myself, I like your openness. Please continue to comment.

PV

 

[pvraman]

Dear Sri S. Sridharan,

Thanks for appreciating my view point. I still am digging deep with manusmrithi. I don't know sanskrit. All I have is the english translation. I read somewhere (from Ram swaroop's interview) that some of the slogas are "idai cherugal" and not original. So I am just trying to have a copy of unaltered Manusmriti. Anybody can please help me?. Because I wanted to learn the Manu's mention about Sudras, and sudras mentioned in BG. Its difficult to imagine the society and characters in olden days.

What was the actual social order at that time. Though the book is a guide, was it followed really as it is? when exactly the society started to change. What our people did to attract so much enmity from the other castes.

Lets discuss further.. Please give inputs..

Thanks
PV

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

actually,i am only namesake brahmin,as a caste.but i don't follow any rituals.even pithru karyam,i have proxied to madhya kailash,in adyar.
naga.n

Sri naga,

is it that you are apologetic? Or is it that you feel pride in all these things?(omissions and commissions).

There is nothing wrong if you are convinced that all these are useless.That can be your strong conviction.Then be fully adherent and loyal to that.

If it is a regret and feeling of helplessness ,then why not improve, at least step by step step. Knowledge is available everywhere.

Negation by strong and convincing argument is an art by itself and welcome.

But negation for sake of negation is a facade, and self betrayal, and indication of pseudos.

( i do not mean any offense or feel agitated about your post,I feel you are a bit confused.So I felt a little prompt, to you and similar others will help them see some direction)

Greetings

 

[kunjuppu]

pvr,

it is good to see one more person's interest in manu smrithi.

i think there might have been good in its day, courtesy of manu. that i don't know.

i do know, that some of the most reactionary thoughts in the recent past (ie disfigurement of widows, ill treatment of dalits, overall subservient disposition towards women) have been attributed to manu.

i think, there is a widespread belief that these corruptions are all sanctioned by manu, because those who practised it, quoted manu's smirthis when the did so.

i suspect, in today's tamil nadu, among the vast hindu population, manu is blacklisted. i have also heard of thoughtful scholars of today, proclaiming manu is best thrown in to the dungheap of history.

after all, any law or way of life, has to be looked into from current applicability and perspective.

i hope, that looking at your other posts, perhaps your study of manu, would lead you to emphasize the inappropriateness of manu's laws, especially among some of the dichotomy practised by TBs - by this i mean exclusivity to chanting of gayathri, vedas and above all priesthood.

to go in this direction, i think, would be to blaze a new path, which in the long term, secures the identity and flourishing of hinduism in tamil nadu.

i have also noticed that there are others, who look at manu, with a preconceived view to justification of today's corruptions - the fault lying in current practitioners, and not manu. i beg to differ from the views of these guys.

i see caste, increasingly in the hindu secular world, a badge of identity. i am not for or against caste. caste will continue to live till it serves its purpose in this context whether it be social or political.

i see caste, in the hindu religious world, as an anomaly. as this justified stratifications within the religion. i cannot believe, that in front of God, we as humans, are not equal, and that the brahmin gets a special seat in front.

pvr, i think, people like you, it would be great, if you could utilize your resource, to unify hindus through emphasising on common grounds, and identity of culture.

i wish you a pan tamil hinduism success.

best wishes.

ps.. i think it would be a great day for tamil hinduism, if some of our mutt heads, repudiate manu's tenets, particularly those that dealing with dalits, women etc. that would be the day when hinduism has yet another rebirth. my opinion only.

 

[pvraman]

Dear Sri Kunjuppu Sir,

Thanks for your comments.

"According to certain British laws (such as the Criminal Tribes Act of 1871),many castes and tribes were described as habitually criminal, and adult male members of such groups forced to report weekly to the local police. The caste-based classification (moneylending, agricultural or martial) was also used for other purposes such as legislation controlling land transfers, the grant of proprietary rights, the regulation of rents, recruitment to the armed forces etc. British anthropologist Herbert Risley's The Tribes and Castes of Bengal, published in 1892, was one of the first works on the caste system in India written by a Western scholar."

Source: Caste System and Caste Divide

What about the society a thousand years before that, where there is no police station to control the criminals. Also the Muslim Invaders snatched the rights of brahmin which was to some extent restored by british rule. (This is an interesting angle).

Our mission is not only to know about ourselves and also other Hindu jati's. it will help us to understand each other, bridge the gap, unite with understanding.

Your words are encouraging.



Thanks
Padmanaban Venkataraman (PV)

 

[nachi naga]

Thank you for response.I am very much at peace within myself owing to my actions.I do not regret nor am i remorse that i have discontinued certain traditional way of Tamil Brahmin life.I feel i am answerable to my own conscience and then my own super-consciousness which merges with all beings as one.I do not believe castes at all.In my own understanding,such distinctions were made in society,to inculcate certain values as desired by ruling elites,spiritual leaders.In todays world,unless one is educated in modern science or modern subjects of curricula,one will have to struggle in life to enjoy material comforts.Tamil Brahmins were taken care off materially,so they were leading a different life,whereas todays Tamil Brahmins are ridiculed,made to feel their custom and traditions as something silly.We are not a violent lot,so we either migrate or have a low profile and struggle in life..sorry for such a provoking post

naga.n.

 

[kunjuppu]

.......Tamil Brahmins are ridiculed,made to feel their custom and traditions as something silly.We are not a violent lot,so we either migrate or have a low profile and struggle in life..sorry for such a provoking post

naga.n.

Nachi,

I don’t think this was a provoking thread as some others.

Re your last point: I think we as a community should not care about mockery from other communities. Imitation is the best form of flattery, and I think, there are more of our norms and values being imitated by others.

Re coping with challenges: we did what was right for us. Your three points re violence, I think are unrelated.

Migration: we go where the jobs are. We have been doing so since the 1920s. please remember the agraharams were overpopulated and there was not much for the younger generation.

I do not think we migrated due to discrimination. I believe we migrated where the best opportunities were ie south east asia, north india, and now all over the world. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Low profile: compared to whom?

Are there not enough representation in the movie and literary world – just pointing out two fields which get noticed publicly.

Also we have industrialists and entrepreneurs (which is something new to our community but very much to be welcomed).

I think we do not have the mindset for current day politics. The only politicians that came out of us, were byproducts of the independence movement. Post independence for many many reasons, we shunned/were shunned out of politics.

Struggle in life: I do not understand this at all in terms of TBs. I hope you are not talking of self pity.

Sir, I think, efforts, channelled caredfully and intelligently to whatever area we apply, has a fair chance of success.

So if we struggle throughout our life, it means that we are not doing right thing or putting in the right type of efforts. Time to change to something else, which will produce results.

This applies, I think to jobs, studies, raising family or any other venture in life.

All in all, I think, while we should not rest on our laurels, we should be proud of our successes and try to emulate those who do better than us, so that we can do better.

I think the key to successful life, is to compete against ourselves and not against others.

By compete against ourselves, I mean, that we should constantly try to improve ourselves in whatever endeavour we do

 

[RVR]

Every threat has to be converted into an opportunity.

Land ceiling laws were introduced in the sixties and early seventies. Brahmins as such didn't had very large holdings. Personally my father use to give a daily dose of advice to get out of the village an don't depend on agriculture. Today agriculture is not an attractive proposition. Lot of lands are not being cultivated because of high wages and non-availability of manpower.

TB community has left government jobs long back. Reservation of seats were further tightened during Dravidian rules. TB community switched to accounting/audit profession in a big way and succeeded during seventies and eighties. Gradually Income tax department became more corrupt and now our community is avoiding accounting and audit profession also.

From early nineties, software, bpo, call center industry picked up. Our community is one of the early bird catch the opportunity. Lot of people took up the Information Technology related jobs and even migrated outside India.

Let us look for the opportunities for the next decade and grow. Let the dravidian parties bring even 100% reservation - still we will succeed. பூனை கண்ணை மூடிகொண்டால் உலகம் இருண்டுவிடாது. If the cat closes its eyes, the world will not become dark. We will succeed at any cost.

Only thing is we have to carry the poor and downtrodden members of our community with us. It is my earnest request that we have to help poorer sections of our community to come up in life. Let us all resolve to help our poorer brothers and sisters.

All the best

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Sri Kunjuppu,
Whole of your post resonates my own thinking.I like to be Practical and Realist.

But Nachi's anguish is raw and sincere feeling coming from heart. Your suggestion can have a soothing effect to refine them.

I am interlining your notes with my response in black.

Nachi,

I do not think we migrated due to discrimination. I believe we migrated where the best opportunities were ie south east asia, north india, and now all over the world. Nothing to be ashamed of.

some ground situations like some new legislations, went in against our interests , also prompted migration,where opportunities are fr more fair and laws favourable and not so discriminating.
.........
Also we have industrialists and entrepreneurs (which is something new to our community but very much to be welcomed).
....
I pray this breed increases amongst us. it used to be a repeated point in most of my posts.They can rebuild our community in particular and our society in general.

I think we do not have the mindset for current day politics. The only politicians that came out of us, were byproducts of the independence movement. Post independence for many many reasons, we shunned/were shunned out of politics.

till, whatever be the aberrations, TBs do not have the courage to totally distance away from time tested values...that is why we do no hear incidents of hardened criminals in them.
...................

So if we struggle throughout our life, it means that we are not doing right thing or putting in the right type of efforts. Time to change to something else, which will produce results.
Exactly. Observing people playing cards in village streets will prove this. Losers often shuffle cards, change sitting posture , re arrange seating order etc.
................

All in all, I think, while we should not rest on our laurels, we should be proud of our successes and try to emulate those who do better than us, so that we can do better.

Yes ... just singing "pazham perumai" will not yield much..
..................
...........that we should constantly try to improve ourselves in whatever endeavour we do.

Every "Avani Avittam" we start "Vedaarambham" and leave it so and continue to be in the same first standard next year also repeating vedaarambham.


I trust future generations TBs will be known as successful entrepreneurs also.

Greetings

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Sri RV,

As I was responding to Sri Kunjuppu's post I did not read your post.I find some of my points find explanations in your post. Coincidence of similar thinking.

Greetings.

 

[nachi naga]

re

hi naga,

can you please explain re proxying your pithru karyam to madhya kailash.

this is a temple that came after i left madras and so don't know much about it.

i looked it up in wikipedia, and there was mention of this process. so what do you have to do to avail yourself of this process?

is it popular?

wikipedia says that it is open to all castes, which is really to be welcomed. i am all for it. for in death, we are all the same.

hi kunju sir

The Website for Madhya Kailash Temple

this will explain the process,hope you pay and join as its for life and all your generations sons grandsons can continue.good luck

naga.n

 

[pvraman]

Dear Sir


I Just completed reading the entire thread again to get some idea based on the comments. I was new to the forum and other topics when I opened the thread. Since then, I came across some excellent informations and exchanges which were very decently conveyed. But there are some questions still hanging!.


Two of my beliefs were not present in Vedic period and it was a new experience to know that the.

1. Thaali is not in Vedas
   
2. Brahmins ate NV.

So, I am requesting the hon. Members to throw some light on, the characteristics of Brahmana in vedic period.



What are the descriptions we have in Vedams on the society in general and Brahmana In particular. So that we can know how much we have deviated now and why?.

Thanks

 

[Brahma Rishi]

Dear Sir

I Just completed reading the entire thread again to get some idea based on the comments. I was new to the forum and other topics when I opened the thread. Since then, I came across some excellent informations and exchanges which were very decently conveyed. But there are some questions still hanging!.

Two of my beliefs were not present in Vedic period and it was a new experience to know that the.

Thaali is not in Vedas

1. 
   

Brahmins ate NV.

.....

The Bengali Brahmins have always been Non Vegetarians, even to this day. Some Kerala Brahmins seem to be Non Vegetarians, I'm not sure.

Thaali is strictly a South Indian tradition. For that matter many of the rituals in South Indian marriages, especially Tamil Brahmin marriages are traditional and sectarian.

In the Ramayana Teleserial cast some years ago, Rama pastes the Vermilion on Sita's forehead which completes the marriage. That is a North Indian tradition. However in Ramayanam movies made in South India, Rama ties a Thaali.

 

[renuka]

then how can we explain this line in Shri Lalita Sahasranaamavali
line 30:om kaamesha baddha maangalya sutra shoobhita kandharaayai namah
salutations to Her whose neck is adored with the Mangalsutra fastened thereon by Her consort Kaamesvara.

so is thaali strictly a south indian practice? if so why the above sentence?
i know an elderly northern indian brahmin lady who does not have a mangalsutra. she said that sindoor is the only sign for her marriage because its their belief that a Brahmana should not own material hence a chain is not allowed.

 

[pvraman]

Smt Renuka Ji

I am really surprised to know about the thali, that it was not in vedas and it was later added by vedics (who are authorized to enhance change vedic procedures after extensive discussion among scholars. ). I am attaching a file again, please look into it.

Thanks
PVR

 

[renuka]

dear PVRaman sir,

thank you very much for the attachment

renuka

 

[pvraman]

Hinduism-how slim it is?

Dear All,

I often hear that in Hinduism accepts one supreme god, and it allows one to reach the god through various ways.

What are various ways according to Veda's described in Vedas (stripped off all the rituals which is not prescribed in Vedas)?

Thanks

 

[nachi naga]

re

Dear All,

I often hear that in Hinduism accepts one supreme god, and it allows one to reach the god through various ways.

What are various ways according to Veda's described in Vedas (stripped off all the rituals which is not prescribed in Vedas)?

Thanks

Vedas are four in number.Each had a time scale.Rituals are part of hinduism.Manthra shastram;Tanthra Shasthram;form the foundation.Then we have shilpa shastrams with mudhrams.

Ideally for Kali Yugam,best is manthra japam,of ones atma deivam,will fullfill moksham.My experiance.Hope its ok.

 

[nachi naga]

Dear Sir


I Just completed reading the entire thread again to get some idea based on the comments. I was new to the forum and other topics when I opened the thread. Since then, I came across some excellent informations and exchanges which were very decently conveyed. But there are some questions still hanging!.


Two of my beliefs were not present in Vedic period and it was a new experience to know that the.

1. Thaali is not in Vedas
   
2. Brahmins ate NV.

So, I am requesting the hon. Members to throw some light on, the characteristics of Brahmana in vedic period.



What are the descriptions we have in Vedams on the society in general and Brahmana In particular. So that we can know how much we have deviated now and why?.

Thanks

Each to his/her dharma,is the way of vedams.So,identifying his dharma based on his/her gunam was foundation,which the guru parambharai established.

thaali was introduced much later than vedams.Symbolism is a very important part of hindu way of life.Thaali symbolises,as a visual aid,to other men to prevent them from amorous designs on her.Meetti in the foot toes is equally an important symbol for married south indian brahmin ladies.

Eating of NV was predominant during vedams,as hunting for food was the way,then.But over many millions of years later,especially after Jaina Mahaviras example,non-violence was made a pillar of attainment towards moksham.Soon,this became part of hindu brahmins way of life or cultural life.

 

[pvraman]

Dear Sri Nachi Naga

.....
.....
Soon,this became part of hindu brahmins way of life or cultural life.

Thanks Sir.

Sri Krishna in S.BG has said to attain moksha, thinking about him, chanting about him is one of the ways. Bakti Yoga.

Are all the Vedas are written by Brahmanas alone or any other varna contributed it?

Because I thought the vedas were preserved in kasi (varanasi) and copied by Brahmanas.

I am also interested to know, the Sanskrit language was in common use? which time? any information?

I have a question linked to this two.

Thanks.

 

[Raghy]

Sri PVR asked:-

"I am also interested to know, the Sanskrit language was in common use? which time? any information?"

I don't know about the past. Please read about the present in the link below.


http://connect.krishna.com/node/7769

 

[pvraman]

sanskrit

Dear Sri Raghy,

Sri PVR asked:-

"I am also interested to know, the Sanskrit language was in common use? which time? any information?"

I don't know about the past. Please read about the present in the link below.


http://connect.krishna.com/node/7769

Thanks for the information. Quite amazing. I really want to learn Sanskrit. When I read S.BG and today Maxmullar Rikved sanhita preface (just started), I am amazed to see the usage of language.
Though I am fluent in few languages including Hindi, I get the feeling that Sanskrit is different.

My main purpose of asking is to know if the vedas were written and preserved by Brahmanas alone or anybody else also contributed?


Regards

 

[happyhindu]

My main purpose of asking is to know if the vedas were written and preserved by Brahmanas alone or anybody else also contributed?

The indo-aryan tribes were diverse composite tribes. No one knows if the seers who wrote the vedas would all be considered brahmanas. Brahmins seem to have originated from various tribes. The book "The Bharadvajas in Ancient India" by Taneshwar Sarmah makes for a very interesting read. A term used there is "kshatropeta brahmana" or brahmins of kshatriya descent. But must let you know that a the book has used a lot of stuff from puranas which possibly cannot be authenticated.

 

[pvraman]

Dear Smt HH Ji,

The book "The Bharadvajas in Ancient India" by Taneshwar Sarmah makes for a very interesting read. A term used there is "kshatropeta brahmana" or brahmins of kshatriya descent. But must let you know that a the book has used a lot of stuff from puranas which possibly cannot be authenticated.

Thanks for the reference.

BTW, when was the first translation of vedas from palm leaves to paper started. How they managed to collect those palm leaves was it in one place or scattered.

Any reference, anybody can provide?

Thanks

 

[pvraman]

Hindu is named by the Europeans, what they were called before? Hinduism is Sanadhana Dharma, but the people who practiced it?.

Anybody can inform?

Thanks