Hitler

[biswa]

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Mr. Sangom, though I have clicked like on several of your posts, I must protest statement.

Nobody deserves to be annihilated, even those who are sending terrorists across the border every day.

Hitler perhaps knew the Jewish mind inside out and felt that they should all be annihilated. But he did not quite succeed.

 

[biswa]

It may be a fact that the Jews had been subjugated almost throughout history. But just as we humans even now don't hesitate to kill a scorpion when we see one, perhaps those old people, right from Constantine's days knew the true nature of jews and what they were likely to do, if given freedom. Today, however, Jews have justified what history has done to them; not only that, may be another holocaust is just waiting for them at the next turn of the historical road, who knows? Anyway, I have no sympathy for jews or israel.

Sangom ji, not sure how many Jews you have met, but there is nothing called the true nature of Jews, just like there is nothing called the true nature of Brahmins or the true nature of Africans. Africa has produced both Idi Amin and Nelson Mandela. There is a huge amount of statistical variance among any population of sufficient size.

But everybody has a survival instinct and perhaps the Jews have had more than their fair share.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

What would you call the U.S. president who used atomic bombs that killed lakhs of people?

Dear Sravna,

I could have called him Parashurama if only he had beheaded his mother!LOL

 

[tks]

Mr. Sangom, though I have clicked like on several of your posts, I must protest statement.

Nobody deserves to be annihilated, even those who are sending terrorists across the border every day.

Perhaps you are figuring out the 'true nature' of a member

 

[sarang]

Parashu killed only kshatriya kings. And he knew that he will get his mother back.

Why hiroshima and nagasaki were selected as targets - design or accident?

Dear Sravna,

I could have called him Parashurama if only he had beheaded his mother!LOL

 

[sravna]

It may be a fact that the Jews had been subjugated almost throughout history. But just as we humans even now don't hesitate to kill a scorpion when we see one, perhaps those old people, right from Constantine's days knew the true nature of jews and what they were likely to do, if given freedom. Today, however, Jews have justified what history has done to them; not only that, may be another holocaust is just waiting for them at the next turn of the historical road, who knows? Anyway, I have no sympathy for jews or is rael.

Dear Shri Sangom,

Even I have no sympathy for the jews. The group is one of the most self centered groups. I would say the culture of jews and brahmins are as far apart as they can be. I am certainly not impressed by scientific or technological accomplishments. What I think would be far more impressive is the abilitiy to see beyond self but some people just can't grasp that idea. If people can't see what's good for them it is just unfortunate but even though I strongly dislike their attitude I do not certainly wish that there be another holocaust. Nature I am sure will have better ways.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

I could have called him Parashurama if only he had beheaded his mother!LOL

Dear Renuka,

Why parasurama? This is not fair. Were not the people who died because of his act innocent? Why kill them?

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Why hiroshima and nagasaki were selected as targets - design or accident?

Sir,

It is reported that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were selected as targets by the 'Target Committee'

Extracts of 'Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasakai' -Wikipedia

"In April 1945, Marshall asked Groves to nominate specific targets for bombing for final approval by himself and Stimson. Groves formed a Target Committee chaired by himself, that included Farrell, MajorJohn A. Derry, ColonelWilliam P. Fisher, Joyce C. Stearns and DavidM. Dennison from the USAAF; and scientists Johnvon Neumann, Robert R. Wilson and William Penney from the Manhattan Project. The Target Committee met in Washington on April 27; at Los Alamos onMay 10, where it was able to talk to the scientists and technicians there; and finally in Washington on May 28, where it was briefed by Tibbets and CommanderFrederick Ashworth from Project Alberta, and theManhattan Project's scientific advisor, RichardC. Tolman.[SUP][70][/SUP]

The Target Committee nominated four targets: Kokura,the site of one of Japan's largest munitions plants; Hiroshima, an embarkation port and industrial center that was the site of a major military headquarters; Niigata, a port with industrial facilities including steel and aluminum plants and an oil refinery; and Kyoto, a major industrial center. The target selection was subject to the following criteria:

• The target was larger than 3 mi (4.8 km) in diameter and was an important target in a large urban area.
• The blast would create effective damage.
• The target was unlikely to be attacked by August 1945. "Any small and strictly military objective should be located in a much larger area subject to blast damage in order to avoid undue risks of the weapon being lost due to bad placing of the bomb."[SUP][71][/SUP]

These cities were largely untouched during the nightly bombing raids and the Army Air Force agreed to leave them off the target list so accurate assessment of the weapon could be made. Hiroshima was described as "an important army depot and port of embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area. It is a good radar target and it is such a size that a large part of the city could be extensively damaged. There are adjacent hills which are likely to produce a focusing effect which would considerably increase the blast damage. Due to rivers it is not a good incendiary target."[SUP][71][/SUP]

The goal of the weapon was to convince Japan to surrender unconditionally in accordance with the terms of the Potsdam Declaration. The Target Committee stated that "It was agreed that psychological factors in the target selection were of great importance. Two aspects of this are (1) obtaining the greatest psychological effect against Japan and (2) making the initial use sufficiently spectacular for the importance of the weapon to be internationally recognized when publicity on it is released. Kyoto had the advantage of being an important center for military industry, as well an intellectual center and hence better able to appreciate the significance of the weapon. The Emperor's palace in Tokyo has a greater fame than any other target but is of least strategic value."[SUP][71][/SUP]


Edwin O. Reischauer, a Japan expert for the US Army Intelligence Service, was incorrectly said to have prevented the bombing of Kyoto.[SUP][71][/SUP]In his autobiography, Reischauer specifically refuted this claim:


... the only person deserving credit for saving Kyoto from destruction is Henry L. Stimson, the Secretary of War at the time, who had known and admired Kyoto ever since his honey moon there several decades earlier.[SUP][72][/SUP]

On July 25, Nagasaki was put on the target list in place of Kyoto.[SUP][73][/SUP]Orders for the attack were issued to General Carl Spaatzon July 25 under the signature of General ThomasT. Handy, the acting Chief of Staff.[SUP][74][/SUP]Some opponents of the atomic bombings charged that the US dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the intention of killing Japanese non-combatants.This claim was not true. On July 25, PresidentHarryS. Truman noted in his diary that:

This weapon is to be used against Japan between now and August 10th. I have told the Sec. of War, Mr. Stimson, to use it so that military objectives and soldiers and sailors are the target and not women and children. Even if the Japs are savages, ruthless, merciless and fanatic, we as the leader of the world for the common welfare cannot drop thatterrible bomb on the old capital [Kyoto] or the new [Tokyo]. He and I are in accord. The target will be a purely military one.[SUP][75]"[/SUP]


Regards

 

[sravna]

Sir,

It is reported that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were selected as targets by the 'Target Committee'

Extracts of 'Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasakai' -Wikipedia

"In April 1945, Marshall asked Groves to nominate specific targets for bombing for final approval by himself and Stimson. Groves formed a Target Committee chaired by himself, that included Farrell, MajorJohn A. Derry, ColonelWilliam P. Fisher, Joyce C. Stearns and DavidM. Dennison from the USAAF; and scientists Johnvon Neumann, Robert R. Wilson and William Penney from the Manhattan Project. The Target Committee met in Washington on April 27; at Los Alamos onMay 10, where it was able to talk to the scientists and technicians there; and finally in Washington on May 28, where it was briefed by Tibbets and CommanderFrederick Ashworth from Project Alberta, and theManhattan Project's scientific advisor, RichardC. Tolman.[SUP][70][/SUP]

The Target Committee nominated four targets: Kokura,the site of one of Japan's largest munitions plants; Hiroshima, an embarkation port and industrial center that was the site of a major military headquarters; Niigata, a port with industrial facilities including steel and aluminum plants and an oil refinery; and Kyoto, a major industrial center. The target selection was subject to the following criteria:

• The target was larger than 3 mi (4.8 km) in diameter and was an important target in a large urban area.
• The blast would create effective damage.
• The target was unlikely to be attacked by August 1945. "Any small and strictly military objective should be located in a much larger area subject to blast damage in order to avoid undue risks of the weapon being lost due to bad placing of the bomb."[SUP][71][/SUP]

These cities were largely untouched during the nightly bombing raids and the Army Air Force agreed to leave them off the target list so accurate assessment of the weapon could be made. Hiroshima was described as "an important army depot and port of embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area. It is a good radar target and it is such a size that a large part of the city could be extensively damaged. There are adjacent hills which are likely to produce a focusing effect which would considerably increase the blast damage. Due to rivers it is not a good incendiary target."[SUP][71][/SUP]

The goal of the weapon was to convince Japan to surrender unconditionally in accordance with the terms of the Potsdam Declaration. The Target Committee stated that "It was agreed that psychological factors in the target selection were of great importance. Two aspects of this are (1) obtaining the greatest psychological effect against Japan and (2) making the initial use sufficiently spectacular for the importance of the weapon to be internationally recognized when publicity on it is released. Kyoto had the advantage of being an important center for military industry, as well an intellectual center and hence better able to appreciate the significance of the weapon. The Emperor's palace in Tokyo has a greater fame than any other target but is of least strategic value."[SUP][71][/SUP]


Edwin O. Reischauer, a Japan expert for the US Army Intelligence Service, was incorrectly said to have prevented the bombing of Kyoto.[SUP][71][/SUP]In his autobiography, Reischauer specifically refuted this claim:


... the only person deserving credit for saving Kyoto from destruction is Henry L. Stimson, the Secretary of War at the time, who had known and admired Kyoto ever since his honey moon there several decades earlier.[SUP][72][/SUP]

On July 25, Nagasaki was put on the target list in place of Kyoto.[SUP][73][/SUP]Orders for the attack were issued to General Carl Spaatzon July 25 under the signature of General ThomasT. Handy, the acting Chief of Staff.[SUP][74][/SUP]Some opponents of the atomic bombings charged that the US dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the intention of killing Japanese non-combatants.This claim was not true. On July 25, PresidentHarryS. Truman noted in his diary that:

This weapon is to be used against Japan between now and August 10th. I have told the Sec. of War, Mr. Stimson, to use it so that military objectives and soldiers and sailors are the target and not women and children. Even if the Japs are savages, ruthless, merciless and fanatic, we as the leader of the world for the common welfare cannot drop thatterrible bomb on the old capital [Kyoto] or the new [Tokyo]. He and I are in accord. The target will be a purely military one.[SUP][75]"[/SUP]


Regards

Dear Shri VB,

The fact that the bombs killed lakhs of innocent civilians cannot be glossed away. This is definitely a case of unjustified mass murder.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Dear Shri VB,

The fact that the bombs killed lakhs of innocent civilians cannot be glossed away. This is definitely a case of unjustified mass murder.

Sir,

I agree, but when it comes to war between two countries,normally the policy of the ruling Government of the enemy countries is to adoptstrategy and tactics of targeting the innocent civilian population also.


Regards

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri VB,

Yes I agree too but was such mass killing required ? It shows total coldness. Why vilify Hitler alone? In a sense Hitler was at war with the Jewish community. My point is anything cannot go in the name of war.

 

[sarang]

Thanks for the information. Personal touch - honeymoon - saved kyoto. Has US ever apologized for the mass murder?

Sir,

It is reported that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were selected as targets by the 'Target Committee'

Extracts of 'Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasakai' -Wikipedia

"In April 1945, Marshall asked Groves to nominate specific targets for bombing for final approval by himself and Stimson. Groves formed a Target Committee chaired by himself, that included Farrell, MajorJohn A. Derry, ColonelWilliam P. Fisher, Joyce C. Stearns and DavidM. Dennison from the USAAF; and scientists Johnvon Neumann, Robert R. Wilson and William Penney from the Manhattan Project. The Target Committee met in Washington on April 27; at Los Alamos onMay 10, where it was able to talk to the scientists and technicians there; and finally in Washington on May 28, where it was briefed by Tibbets and CommanderFrederick Ashworth from Project Alberta, and theManhattan Project's scientific advisor, RichardC. Tolman.[SUP][70][/SUP]

The Target Committee nominated four targets: Kokura,the site of one of Japan's largest munitions plants; Hiroshima, an embarkation port and industrial center that was the site of a major military headquarters; Niigata, a port with industrial facilities including steel and aluminum plants and an oil refinery; and Kyoto, a major industrial center. The target selection was subject to the following criteria:

• The target was larger than 3 mi (4.8 km) in diameter and was an important target in a large urban area.
• The blast would create effective damage.
• The target was unlikely to be attacked by August 1945. "Any small and strictly military objective should be located in a much larger area subject to blast damage in order to avoid undue risks of the weapon being lost due to bad placing of the bomb."[SUP][71][/SUP]

These cities were largely untouched during the nightly bombing raids and the Army Air Force agreed to leave them off the target list so accurate assessment of the weapon could be made. Hiroshima was described as "an important army depot and port of embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area. It is a good radar target and it is such a size that a large part of the city could be extensively damaged. There are adjacent hills which are likely to produce a focusing effect which would considerably increase the blast damage. Due to rivers it is not a good incendiary target."[SUP][71][/SUP]

The goal of the weapon was to convince Japan to surrender unconditionally in accordance with the terms of the Potsdam Declaration. The Target Committee stated that "It was agreed that psychological factors in the target selection were of great importance. Two aspects of this are (1) obtaining the greatest psychological effect against Japan and (2) making the initial use sufficiently spectacular for the importance of the weapon to be internationally recognized when publicity on it is released. Kyoto had the advantage of being an important center for military industry, as well an intellectual center and hence better able to appreciate the significance of the weapon. The Emperor's palace in Tokyo has a greater fame than any other target but is of least strategic value."[SUP][71][/SUP]


Edwin O. Reischauer, a Japan expert for the US Army Intelligence Service, was incorrectly said to have prevented the bombing of Kyoto.[SUP][71][/SUP]In his autobiography, Reischauer specifically refuted this claim:


... the only person deserving credit for saving Kyoto from destruction is Henry L. Stimson, the Secretary of War at the time, who had known and admired Kyoto ever since his honey moon there several decades earlier.[SUP][72][/SUP]

On July 25, Nagasaki was put on the target list in place of Kyoto.[SUP][73][/SUP]Orders for the attack were issued to General Carl Spaatzon July 25 under the signature of General ThomasT. Handy, the acting Chief of Staff.[SUP][74][/SUP]Some opponents of the atomic bombings charged that the US dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the intention of killing Japanese non-combatants.This claim was not true. On July 25, PresidentHarryS. Truman noted in his diary that:

This weapon is to be used against Japan between now and August 10th. I have told the Sec. of War, Mr. Stimson, to use it so that military objectives and soldiers and sailors are the target and not women and children. Even if the Japs are savages, ruthless, merciless and fanatic, we as the leader of the world for the common welfare cannot drop thatterrible bomb on the old capital [Kyoto] or the new [Tokyo]. He and I are in accord. The target will be a purely military one.[SUP][75]"[/SUP]


Regards

 

[sravna]

Thanks for the information. Personal touch - honeymoon - saved kyoto. Has US ever apologized for the mass murder?

I do not think U.S. has apologized for that. But worse still it tries to project as if it was right in doing it.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Dear Shri VB,

Yes I agree too but was such mass killing required ? It shows total coldness. Why vilify Hitler alone? In a sense Hitler was at war with the Jewish community. My point is anything cannot go in the name of war.

Sir,


It is war crimes, a vast subject.

To my little knowledge I only remember this.
எதிரியைப் பணிய வைக்க நான்கு வழிமுறைகளை வேதங்கள் சொல்லிவைத்திருக்கின்றன. அவை சாம, தான, பேத, தண்டம்என்பன. இவை சாணக்கியர் சொல்லிக்கொடுத்த நுட்பங்கள் என்றும் கேள்வி.

Regards

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Thanks for the information. Personal touch - honeymoon - saved kyoto. Has US ever apologized for the mass murder?

Sir,

I was also thinking about the same. ‘Honeymoon’ seems to have its own influence, irrespective of war or peace.

Regards

 

[கால பைரவன்]

The Jews realize that there are people with power who carry the same views reg their "true nature" etc and that these nut jobs could easily try out another holocaust. Hence they think their only means of survival is a separate state. I often see that the Jews who are overly critical of Israel have very little to say about the hostilities that the Jews face. They are perhaps like the Indian prosecutor being discussed in DK case, whose anti-indian stand is not a result of high ethical standards or anything but is just an opportunistic stance to further his own interests.

 

[sangom]

This is an unfortunate over generalization. The Israeli state is a criminal one, I agree with you on that. But your over generalization of all Jews is without basis and troubling. Some of the implacable critics of the state of Israel are themselves jews. Many of the greatest scientists are jews. Many great thinkers are jews, from Spinoza to Karl Marx to Trostsy. We can oppose the state of Israel without opposing jews in general.

The problem is Jews may criticize Israel, their Jewish nation, but when it comes to the Jews, all of them are one. It will be a foolish concession, therefore, to exonerate Jews but blame only an imaginary Jewish government which exists outside of all Jews. May be there have been great scientists and thinkers but do you really feel the non-Jews have not produced equally good scientists and thinkers?

 

[sangom]

Mr. Sangom, though I have clicked like on several of your posts, I must protest statement.

Nobody deserves to be annihilated, even those who are sending terrorists across the border every day.

I agree with you, but that is not the Nature's method; from the Liopleurodon to the Dodo, Nature seems to believe in complete annihilation, and man becomes an instrument or agency at times in this mission.

Theosophists believe that Jews belong to a previous race and it is existing beyond its expiry date, possibly.

 

[sangom]

Sangom ji, not sure how many Jews you have met, but there is nothing called the true nature of Jews, just like there is nothing called the true nature of Brahmins or the true nature of Africans. Africa has produced both Idi Amin and Nelson Mandela. There is a huge amount of statistical variance among any population of sufficient size.

But everybody has a survival instinct and perhaps the Jews have had more than their fair share.

Shri Biswa,

Your argument is very valid if it is to exonerate a particular person or a handful of Jews from criticism. But, among humans each large group is generally identified as having a least common trait; for example the Chinese and, to a lesser extent, the Japanese — the Yellow races — are considered most inhumanly cruel especially in battlefields. So, may be the Jews have very strong negative characteristics once they are let free and empowered and that the Jews would be great trouble makers to the rest.

Even though "the blood libel" is now sought to be included as a plus point in favour of the Jews, if one really reads Jesus' history, can one forgive the Sanhedrin and the Jewish High Priests for crying for crucifixion of Jesus even when Pontius Pilate himself felt that Jesus was completely innocent and that there was not even one contrived reason to convict Jesus, and as he felt it was a sinful act he (Pontius) is said to have washed his hands to signify that he had no part in that sinful act.

For a much milder mob fury on the part of the Bigriver's followers, our tabra people get much agitated, but they either don't know or do not care that it was the mob fury of the Jewish crowd which was baying for the very blood of an innocent carpenter who had some good and practical advices to the common people, and mockingly crowned him saying "King of the Jews".

It looks to me as though many of us do not want to be impartial but just follow the current fashion, even in regard to opinions. Jews are dangerous parasites, if left free; statistical variance exists even among parasites including HIV, I suppose.

 

[sangom]

Perhaps you are figuring out the 'true nature' of a member

I have nothing to hide. My "true nature" is what appears in what my posts say. No need to take the trouble of "figuring out".

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,

Even I have no sympathy for the jews. The group is one of the most self centered groups. I would say the culture of jews and brahmins are as far apart as they can be. I am certainly not impressed by scientific or technological accomplishments. What I think would be far more impressive is the abilitiy to see beyond self but some people just can't grasp that idea. If people can't see what's good for them it is just unfortunate but even though I strongly dislike their attitude I do not certainly wish that there be another holocaust. Nature I am sure will have better ways.

Dear Sravna,

It is very, very difficult to "see beyond self" for almost all people. Jews are no exception, not withstanding their abstruse metaphysics and magical elements, alchemy etc. But the problem is that, as a people, the Jews are really troublesome to dangerous depending upon their extent of freedom.

As regards holocaust, kindly read my post #43 above.

 

[renuka]

Parashu killed only kshatriya kings. And he knew that he will get his mother back.

Why hiroshima and nagasaki were selected as targets - design or accident?

Parashurama came back home..he saw that his father was killed in an unexpected attack by a kshatriya..then he wrecks revenge on all kshatriyas including those who did no harm to his father.


Ok now US President sees that his country had an unexpected attack by Japanese at Pearl Habour..so now the President launches attack on all Japanese including those who did not kill any American at Pearl Habour.


So you see what I mean?? The only difference is the US President did not behead his own mother like Parashurama!

 

[renuka]

Dear Shri Sangom,

Even I have no sympathy for the jews. The group is one of the most self centered groups..

Dear Sravna,

I am surprised to read this.

Frankly speaking anyone can say this about anyone..I personally feel many communities in India including TBs are self centred but even then if anything bad were to happen to anyone I would have sympathy and sense of compassion for even the most self centred person.

I wonder have you guys actually seen the real footage of how Jews were killed and how the young children and women were killed?

Do you know when some people were thrown into the furnace they were not yet dead..some were so weak and emaciated and too weak to even move.

I have no idea how can anyone even have an admiration for Hilter in anyway?

Sravna..I have a question for you..In your 1st post of this thread you said you admired Hitler for his strong conviction.

<posts about EVR are banned. - Praveen>

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,


Sravna..I have a question for you..In your 1st post of this thread you said you admired Hitler for his strong conviction.

Dear Renuka,

There is a difference. If you have conviction it should rightly reflect in your actions. <removed> I do not endorse all of Hitler's actions. But I am just saying he possessed positive aspects too.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

There is a difference. If you have conviction it should show in your actions. Unlike Hitler , bigriver was hypocritical in many ways. This has been discussed before. I do not endorse all of Hitler's actions. But I am just saying he possessed positive aspects too.

Dear Sravna,

Its about strong convictions..so both Hitler and BR did have strong convictions isnt it?

BTW BR did not even take one life..so are you still going to say Hitler had positive aspects and BR had none?