Hitler

[tks]

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Dear Shri Nara,

You will definitely have more information and more authentic information about Jews and their history. I do not dispute it at all. But your own above post has the following:

"The alleged actions of jews of Jerusalem some two thousand years ago, or the actions Israeli state since its inception, can't make the entire jewish population of the world "dangerous parasites"."

To a less-informed person like myself this gives the impression that around 2000 years ago when the Jews, their court, etc., ruled Judea they (the Jews, that is) had no qualms in accusing Jesus of blasphemy and demanding nothing less than the death of that person, even when the Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate found no contrived evidence even to accuse Jesus of any crime but he feared the crowds (read Jews) and so let them decide the Fate of Jesus and washed his hands off, symbolically. (Jesus Crucifixion - Bible Story Summary of the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ)

Now, even after 2000 years, the Israeli state behaves in much the same manner and it goes about attacking its neighbours on (probably paranoid thinking) that if it does not attack first and keep some territory in belligerent occupation, its neighbours would attack and destroy their country.

Is this not adequate evidence that the Jews, as a people, continue to pose danger to others, be it a poor preacher like Jesus or countries like UAE, Syria, Jordan, etc? If Israel, the modern state had continued as a non-agressive, peace-loving nation like India, say, I will definitely agree with most of you who seem to take undue pains to paint the Jews as a group deserving of utmost sympathy of the rest of the world. The Jews were docile, even in India (including Kerala, Bombay, etc.) but once they knew they could have Aliyah, they started having high notions about themselves. This I have seen among my Jew friends in Bombay. That is why I said earlier that I am not anti-Jew but anti-zionism (giving them an independent state of their own). I used the word 'dangerous parasites' only in the context of a Jewish state and not against the people as such. BTW, Mahatma Gandhi also opposed the creation of Israel and formal diplomatic ties between India & Israel came only in the 1990's.

Yourself, Shri tks and many others in India and in the US, barring Shri Sravna - in India, seem to be "scared" of criticizing Jews and/or Israel. I don't know why, but I doubt that it may be due to the omnipresence of the Jewish influence in US and the need to "conform" which is a must in the US.

You further admit that "A little bit of history, hatred of jews was not only allowed all over European society, it was actively encouraged. Anti-semitism permeated the entire continent, it was not unique to Germany. But only the axis countries took the hatred to the next level and started killing the jews. If there was a English Hitler, he could have just as well made the English do these dreadful things because they all shared a high degree of anti-semitism."
Does not this show that either all the Europeans were lunatics basically to hate Jews, or, that there was some core of truth to their pervasive dislike for the Jews? Kindly ponder.



The way you have put it, it looks as though those who hate have a basic problem but those who are/were hated are completely blameless. But strangely I don't find this approach in your writings about Bigriver. If 'widespread hatred is the root cause', then Bigriver who sowed the seeds of widespread hatred will have to be the villain, just like Hitler — and tabras become pure, blameless people just as the Jews/Israel. Why is there a double standard? Or is it a case of "tell me the person and I shall tell you the rule?"

Just as Shri tks tries to tutor another member vide his post here, I feel it may be necessary to distinguish between the thinking styles of people like myself living in India and that of people making a living in the US; and this time that post boomerangs on tks himself!

Despite all of what I have written above, if you or anybody else considers it necessary to gloss over and say good things about Jews and/or Israel, all of you may please continue to do so and paint Hitler as badly as you wish and eulogize the Jews and their state Israel.

Sri Sangom

There are false equivalencies made in terms of your boomerang comment.
Showing disrespect to someone's tradition (like chanting a name like Rama) via mockery of words needed a response . This is about living by the principle of 'live and let live'. It is about asking someone to abide by the principle of mutual respect.

In this thread mutual respect for other faith also means that we do not take an entire class of people for whatever their faith may be and attribute negative traits. Doing so is also immature to say the least. There will be distribution of good, bad and ugly people in any major groupings by any trait or beliefs. Jewish people due to historical reasons feel persecuted and have had their share of both peace loving groups and those that are very militant.

Zionism is a form of racism and that word never entered the picture in your previous posts. I do not support Zionism to say the least

I have many friends from Jewish faith - some orthodox, some traditional, some modern and some atheists. They are no different as human beings than any other group I have come across including those that tag themselves as TB or any other ID.

I do not always agree with the acts of state of Israel but one cannot expect many faiths to show the other cheeks like some group of TBs do.

I do agree that just like Hitler spread hatred so did the person Sri Nara admires the most. They were both driven by agenda, power and even a need to do some good the way they defined what is good for the society.

Regardless any comment about justification of holocaust like event is despicable. It just happened that few weeks ago I ended up going to Berlin and when I had time went to visit a concentration camp nearby. The place reminds acts of some human beings doing to others like sustained torture that many of will not will not wish for our worst enemy..

 

[ashwin_ash]

Sri Sangom

There are false equivalencies made in terms of your boomerang comment.
Showing disrespect to someone's tradition (like chanting a name like Rama) via mockery of words needed a response . This is about living by the principle of 'live and let live'. It is about asking someone to abide by the principle of mutual respect.

In this thread mutual respect for other faith also means that we do not take an entire class of people for whatever their faith may be and attribute negative traits. Doing so is also immature to say the least. There will be distribution of good, bad and ugly people in any major groupings by any trait or beliefs. Jewish people due to historical reasons feel persecuted and have had their share of both peace loving groups and those that are very militant.

Zionism is a form of racism and that word entered the picture in your previous posts. I do not support Zionism to say the least

I have many friends from Jewish faith - some orthodox, some traditional, some modern and some atheists. They are no different as human beings than any other group I have come across including those that tag themselves as TB or any other ID.

I do not always agree with the acts of state of Israel but one cannot expect many faiths to show the other cheeks like some group of TBs do.

I do agree that just like Hitler spread hatred so did the person Sri Nara admires the most. They were both driven by agenda, power and even a need to do some good the way they defined what is good for the society.

Regardless any comment about justification of holocaust like event is despicable. It just happened that few weeks ago I ended up going to Berlin and when I had time went to visit a concentration camp nearby. The place reminds acts of some human beings doing to others like sustained torture that many of will not will not wish for our worst enemy..

See this- http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/24/us/24jews.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 . Israel is certainly not calling for this criminal's release because he is 'Jewish'. In fact, Israel is a model country in the Middle East. While the extent if the holocaust will always be a matter of intense political debate, the fact remains that Israel has moved on and is now a First World country, while India seems bent on moving back to the 10th century. Tambrams are only bit-actors in the larger drama. If they keep quiet and focus purely on their welfare, even if it means moving out of India, it will serve them well. Harping on past injustices (<posts about EVR are banned. Further mentions will lead to account being suspended without warning. - Praveen>) will only lead to heartburn and time wasted.

 

[sangom]

Hi folks,

I think Shri Sangom has been unfairly attacked for expressing his views on Jews which I think were very bold. It takes a lot of maturity to see an event by going beyond the impact that it can make on the senses and see it in an impartial way.I accept that the holocaust should not have happened and
Hitler did commit a grave error.

The Jews who I thiink are largely responsible for the policies of countries such as the U.S. and Israel, are taking them in the wrong direction and will eventually lead these countries into disaster. These people in my opinion are short sighted and with their success in various fields have become haughty
making matters worse. My views on the jews are based on the policies of the U.S. and Israel and some knowledge of history.

Dear Shri Sravna,

Thank you for your frank and bold support given to my pov on Jews, Hitler and Israel.

I have no axe to grind in r/o Jews as a people, or Jews as belonging to a particular religious faith. They are just like all the rest or may be even better than some others.

But when the Jews vs Hitler problem is considered, from whatever little I have read, it does not look to me that Hitler was a monster as is sought to be painted usually, or the Kalki avataar (as somebody stated); on the contrary, Hitler comes out, in my view, as a person who had many things to complain about the Jews of his country, he sensed that there was this pervasive abhorrence of Jews among the rest, and found it as one effective rallying point for uniting the non-Jew Germans and thus increase his own political rise.

Being the common enemy, the Nazi pogrom was enthusiastically taken up and carried forward with overzeal by the functionaries of Hitler's government and also the Nazi party activists. The common people, the hoi polloi, also were only too glad to spy on Jews in hiding, Jews living incognito and under false identities, etc., and reveal them to the Government.

It is also true that as our venerable Bigriver put it,

யூதர்கள் சிறிதும் தங்களைத் தவிர வேறு எதிலும் பொறுப்பு இல்லாமல் எப்படியாவது ஆளுகிறவர்களைச் சுவாதீனம் செய்துகொண்டு, ஆளுவதில் கலந்துகொண்டு தந்திரங்கள் செய்து மற்ற குடிகளை வாட்டி வதக்கி உயிர்வாங்க வாழுகிறவர்கள்

,
the Jews were (and still probably are, but I don't know) very efficient in becoming influential with those who run governments and thereby safeguard their vested interests in every way. Plus we may also note that Israel is one of the major global arms producers in the world, that it has not been a peace-loving country, etc. The people in India who rejoiced on the occasion of creation of Israel were the "Hindutva" people like Vir Savarkar. It looks strange that on the one hand we tend to blame the hindutva people for generating communal divide here in India (see Shri Nara's post #62, last para) but do not try to see how Israel became so happy a news to them. My reading is that the hindutva people find in Israel an equally fundamentalist ally.

Once again, I will say that if a (group of) people like the Jews or the Tamil Brahmins are generally not liked by the vast majority of the rest of the population, it is not correct to assume that it is all due to hatred, blood-lust, fundamentalism, etc. In the case of Jews, I feel it is the immediate and important responsibility of the international Jewish community to reign in Israel's war-mongering tendency, make that country non-aggressive and peace-loving and show that emancipated and free Jews can live and let live their neighbouring populations. Till the Jews do not address themselves to this task and succeed, it will be seen that history had not been unkind to them.

 

[indianassault]

See this- http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/24/us/24jews.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 . , while India seems bent on moving back to the 10th century.

You are one of the leading spoilsports of the forum. I do not know if you are an Indian citizen , but refrain from abusing India.

 

[indianassault]

A slight diversion, the connection is hatred for an entire group ---
This thing is being played out against Muslims these days in many countries. In India, the hatred of muslims has been easy to cultivate and nurture because the general public is largely ignorant of history and there are enough people around to twist it to promote their own political end. The Hindutva folks have been at it for decades and now this hatred has reached a dangerous level. When Modi thunders "we are five, ours fifteen" he is cheered on. For him the murdered victims were like puppies he ran over, not worth worrying about. He is tapping right into the hatred of muslims for political gain. This is serious and I hope India chooses wisely in the upcoming election.

YOu are presenting a prejudiced view regarding cultivating hatred of Muslims. FYI India has the highest muslim population for a non muslim majority country. And they have been most peaceful. They ahve got what all they wanted. Reservations, Govt subsidies, freedom of religion and even a country called Pakistan. Your post doesnt have any evidence to support Muslim hatred, but only shows your prejudiced and biased views against Hindutva folks.

The vote bank politics done by the secular family is much effective and bigger than Modi's trapping into the hatred of Muslims.

Your post presents a very superlative view without substance. Please answer this question, what did the Muslims lose during 1998-04 and what they have gained during 2004-2013?

 

[Nara]

<discussed in private and sorted out>

 

[renuka]

You are one of the leading spoilsports of the forum. I do not know if you are an Indian citizen , but refrain from abusing India.

Dear Indianassault,

I cant help smiling at your reply to Ashwin..cos you have a username of Indianssault but you calling Ash a spoilsport and India Abuser(Indian Assaulter?LOL)

Poor Ash yaar..he is not a spoil sport..he brings a breath of fresh air to forum with his witty and fun filled post..at times its really outrageous but isnt that cute??

I dont find anything wrong supporting Ash..if people can support Hitler why not support Ash?LOL

 

[Nara]

Yourself, Shri tks and many others in India and in the US, barring Shri Sravna - in India, seem to be "scared" of criticizing Jews and/or Israel. I don't know why, but I doubt that it may be due to the omnipresence of the Jewish influence in US and the need to "conform" which is a must in the US.

Dear Sangom, I have said my piece and there is not a whole lot more for me to add. Just a few more observations.

[1] I hope you realize there is no reasonably clinching evidence for the historicity of Jesus. So, it is quite likely that the very idea that Jews killed him is just a myth.
[2] Even if Jesus is a historical figure, he himself was a jew.
[3] I am not scared to criticize Israel, I have criticized Israel in this very forum during the Mavi Marmara incident and the 2008 Gaza massacre, and whenever the topic came up. Further, you are yourself glossing over the fact the Israel engaged in terrorist tactics against Arab population even from a time much before the establishment of the criminal state Israel, not just during the 1967 war.

To take the land that belongs to Palestinians and establishing a state for European Jews was a criminal act. The Europeans could have carved out parts of Germany and given it to the Jews, and there would have been some justice in that. But to drive out Palestinians to make way for a Israeli state is criminal.

To declare Israel as a Jewish state is like declaring India a Hindu state -- which the Modi supporters would love, but ain't happening -- or declaring USA a White State. Yet this is what they are demanding and finding support in USA and elsewhere.

But this is a digression, this is another topic, if it is criticism of Israeli state and the terrorism they visit upon ordinary Palestinians, then I am with you 100%. But the topic is Hitler, and he was a monster who tapped into the latent antisemitism nurtured for political reasons. And in this regard, you are wrong, I am sorry to say it. As I have stated already, with due respect to your knowledge and wisdom, nothing can justify the kind of outlandish statements you made, and that is my considered opinion.

I don't find this approach in your writings about Bigriver.

I expect usage of the pejorative term Big River by the Brahmin Bigots, but didn't expect it from you. Anyway, I have addressed my view about EVR in this context in this post. Even in this Brahmin site it seems at least one person agrees with my views. I have nothing further to add.

Just as Shri tks tries to tutor another member vide his post here,

Why are you so cruel to me dear Sangom -- just kidding . I did see this post but only skimmed it. You made me take a closer look and I see that he has said some negative things about me. I have learned to expect this and accept it as the price for stating my views forthrightly.

Those who were paying attention may have noticed I never said anything about Mrs. RR or her reverence to rama nama, or anyone else's. She made a comment that I thought was somewhat flippant and I took it the logical banality of it. She didn't like that, but that is tough, I didn't say anything unprompted. If their feelings are sensitive they should stay away from making flippant comments, LOL.

Sangom, I am used to these slings and arrows. If these comments bring tks and his likes a measure of satisfaction, then I am willing to oblige, go ahead, bring it on, take your best shot, that is what I say to them.

Thanks Sangom, I know the words you wrote do not reflect your true self, and I am saddened that the usual suspects are having a field day.

p.s.
K, where have you vanished?

 

[indianassault]

Dear Indianassault,

I cant help smiling at your reply to Ashwin..cos you have a username of Indianssault but you calling Ash a spoilsport and India Abuser(Indian Assaulter?LOL)

Poor Ash yaar..he is not a spoil sport..he brings a breath of fresh air to forum with his witty and fun filled post..at times its really outrageous but isnt that cute??

I dont find anything wrong supporting Ash..if people can support Hitler why not support Ash?LOL

No Renuka ma'am , definitely No offence meant to any one but IMHO i feel in most of his posts, he has been overly critical of India, our beliefs and ancient culture. I dont think we are dirt poor or going back to 10th century. Of course its his opinion and I respect it.

May be suddenly I got as patriotic as Hitler .

Ashwin_Ash, No offence meant to you.

And regarding IndianAssault, please read it as Indian Asalt( Asalt in Chennai Tamil translates to talented or doing things easily)

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Sangom,

To a less-informed person like myself this gives the impression that around 2000 years ago when the Jews, their court, etc., ruled Judea they (the Jews, that is) had no qualms in accusing Jesus of blasphemy and demanding nothing less than the death of that person, even when the Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate found no contrived evidence even to accuse Jesus of any crime but he feared the crowds (read Jews) and so let them decide the Fate of Jesus and washed his hands off, symbolically. (Jesus Crucifixion - Bible Story Summary of the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ)

You are narrating the story as told in bible. Bible is not an authentic document and it has been revised so many times depending on the needs of the time. And Jesus was himself a jew. I have a fundamental objection to any one quoting ancient history (which is not authentic) to declare a group of people criminals today. It is just the history and much time has passed since then. Bible describes about Adam and Eve as the first two humans on this planet which should automatically mean that we are all progenies born out of incest and in todays times incest is a despicable practice. Thus whether it is the jews or the Brahmins I would prefer to judge them by their actions today. That brings us to the next para of your post.

Now, even after 2000 years, the Israeli state behaves in much the same manner and it goes about attacking its neighbours on (probably paranoid thinking) that if it does not attack first and keep some territory in belligerent occupation, its neighbours would attack and destroy their country.
Is this not adequate evidence that the Jews, as a people, continue to pose danger to others, be it a poor preacher like Jesus or countries like UAE, Syria, Jordan, etc? If Israel, the modern state had continued as a non-agressive, peace-loving nation like India, say, I will definitely agree with most of you who seem to take undue pains to paint the Jews as a group deserving of utmost sympathy of the rest of the world.

No Mr. Sangom. Israel behaves the way it behaves because the hostility of all its neighbours towards it is real. Size and population wise Israel is small when compared to its neighbours and so can easily be overrun in a war if it does not have superior technology and firepower. There is no paranoid thinking involved here. It is being just realistic. Attacking enemies and keeping them on tenterhooks is a military doctrine. It delivers results. And do you remember the Mogadishu Airport hijacking and hold-up? Israelis suffered extreme anxiety and pain during that entire episode and came out on top because of sheer courage and meticulous planning. Overnight Idi Amin became a darling of the people who were suffering from anti Semitism. In spite of all this even today there are rogue militias in the neighbouring countries of Israel whose members get up in the morning, fire a couple of rockets into Isreli territory and then go wash their teeth to have a cup of tea. It is like my having a cup of coffee while reading the Times of India in the morning every day. What do you expect Israel to do given this kind of hostility all around. India is a peaceloving nation only for you and me. Ask a Pakistani he will tell you a different story.

You further admit that "A little bit of history, hatred of jews was not only allowed all over European society, it was actively encouraged. Anti-semitism permeated the entire continent, it was not unique to Germany. But only the axis countries took the hatred to the next level and started killing the jews. If there was a English Hitler, he could have just as well made the English do these dreadful things because they all shared a high degree of anti-semitism."
Does not this show that either all the Europeans were lunatics basically to hate Jews, or, that there was some core of truth to their pervasive dislike for the Jews? Kindly ponder.

What is said is true. I will go one step further and say this. The Anglosaxons were comparatively more humane and never crossed the precipice to fall into abyss. They were not capable of such utter disregard for decency and were incapable of shutting off their mental discipline to such an extent like the Germans. I am sure even if an English Hitler were there, the unspeakable brutality of a holocaust would not have happened. I still maintain that the easy way out for a struggling politician confined to a doghouse to capture the imagination of a people and rally them under his leadership is to freely distribute an opiate to the masses. Hatred for a community, a religion, a race, an identifiable group of people are all such handy opiates. Hitler and Bigriver used it well. Both were successful in their game. In both cases the country suffered. A few decades of development has suffered in Tamilnadu because of bigriver and in Germany it was the world at large which suffered in a wasteful war. In both cases the practitioners of this kind of hatred politics could not control and put back the genie into the bottle after it served its initial purpose. Like you have said, the hatred opiate has one of the most reasonable, logical and convincing argument for its existence when its distributors said non chalantly how can the entire country-meaning the majority of the people-be wrong. It is they who elected the perpetrators of holocaust. So that gives the necessary justification for the holocaust. The entire Europeans can not be lunatics so goes the argument. Very logical. Isn’t it? And the next argument is that the haters as well as the hated have basic problems. So the blame is to be equally shared. Whether it is bigriver or Hitler they always knew that the opiate dependency will throw up such brilliant debating talent. They need not really do much on that.

The point is wide spread hatred is the root cause and we must guard against it.

The way you have put it, it looks as though those who hate have a basic problem but those who are/were hated are completely blameless. But strangely I don't find this approach in your writings about Bigriver. If 'widespread hatred is the root cause', then Bigriver who sowed the seeds of widespread hatred will have to be the villain, just like Hitler — and tabras become pure, blameless people just as the Jews/Israel. Why is there a double standard? Or is it a case of "tell me the person and I shall tell you the rule?"

I am amused at the turn of arguments here. Let me wait how our friend is going to defend his position. LOL.

 

[Vaagmi]

Nara 81:
This is funny, A public intellectual revered by almost all of Tamil Nadu is being mockingly referred to as Big River by people here for a while -- which is pathetic, all of which were about EVR and there are dozens and dozens of them, none of them are deleted, and mine is. Is this a hint that if I call this great social reformer as "Big River" it will be alright, or is it because I am saying positive things about EVR? This is getting bizarre ...

There is nothing bizarre about it. If I call Idi Amin the most handsome man ever to live on earth, the most intelligent human being that ever walked on earth, The greatest ever social reformer the humanity ever produced or simply as an intellectual revered by the whole world-the members here will easily understand what is bizarre in that. They will rightly conclude as the moderator has concluded that this kind of nonsense has to be brought to an end.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom, I have said my piece and there is not a whole lot more for me to add. Just a few more observations.

[1] I hope you realize there is no reasonably clinching evidence for the historicity of Jesus. So, it is quite likely that the very idea that Jews killed him is just a myth.
[2] Even if Jesus is a historical figure, he himself was a jew.
[3] I am not scared to criticize Israel, I have criticized Israel in this very forum during the Mavi Marmara incident and the 2008 Gaza massacre, and whenever the topic came up. Further, you are yourself glossing over the fact the Israel engaged in terrorist tactics against Arab population even from a time much before the establishment of the criminal state Israel, not just during the 1967 war.

To take the land that belongs to Palestinians and establishing a state for European Jews was a criminal act. The Europeans could have carved out parts of Germany and given it to the Jews, and there would have been some justice in that. But to drive out Palestinians to make way for a Israeli state is criminal.

To declare Israel as a Jewish state is like declaring India a Hindu state -- which the Modi supporters would love, but ain't happening -- or declaring USA a White State. Yet this is what they are demanding and finding support in USA and elsewhere.

But this is a digression, this is another topic, if it is criticism of Israeli state and the terrorism they visit upon ordinary Palestinians, then I am with you 100%. But the topic is Hitler, and he was a monster who tapped into the latent antisemitism nurtured for political reasons. And in this regard, you are wrong, I am sorry to say it. As I have stated already, with due respect to your knowledge and wisdom, nothing can justify the kind of outlandish statements you made, and that is my considered opinion.

I expect usage of the pejorative term Big River by the Brahmin Bigots, but didn't expect it from you. Anyway, I have addressed my view about EVR in this context in this post. Even in this Brahmin site it seems at least one person agrees with my views. I have nothing further to add.


Why are you so cruel to me dear Sangom -- just kidding . I did see this post but only skimmed it. You made me take a closer look and I see that he has said some negative things about me. I have learned to expect this and accept it as the price for stating my views forthrightly.

Those who were paying attention may have noticed I never said anything about Mrs. RR or her reverence to rama nama, or anyone else's. She made a comment that I thought was somewhat flippant and I took it the logical banality of it. She didn't like that, but that is tough, I didn't say anything unprompted. If their feelings are sensitive they should stay away from making flippant comments, LOL.

Sangom, I am used to these slings and arrows. If these comments bring tks and his likes a measure of satisfaction, then I am willing to oblige, go ahead, bring it on, take your best shot, that is what I say to them.

Thanks Sangom, I know the words you wrote do not reflect your true self, and I am saddened that the usual suspects are having a field day.

p.s.
K, where have you vanished?

Dear Shri Nara,

I am in complete agreement with you in regard to the following portion of the above post :

"To take the land that belongs to Palestinians and establishing a state for European Jews was a criminal act. The Europeans could have carved out parts of Germany and given it to the Jews, and there would have been some justice in that. But to drive out Palestinians to make way for a Israeli state is criminal.

To declare Israel as a Jewish state is like declaring India a Hindu state -- which the Modi supporters would love, but ain't happening -- or declaring USA a White State. Yet this is what they are demanding and finding support in USA and elsewhere.

But this is a digression, this is another topic, if it is criticism of Israeli state and the terrorism they visit upon ordinary Palestinians, then I am with you 100%. "

Now, you make a distinction between Jews, the people and Israel, the state of the Jews and its representative government. I have no data to show that the israeli government is a dictatorship, or even an oligarchy or plutocracy; it is representative of its people, which means the Jews. You also agree that this establishment of Israel in Palestine was a criminal act and also agree that the Israeli state (the government representing the will of its Jewish population) indulges in acts of terrorism upon ordinary Palestinians, in a very routine sort of way.

These aspects make me conclude that the Jews, as a group, when allowed to be free, will behave as irresponsible terrorists and not as a peace-loving group of people. Granted that there may be good people among those nearly 6 million Jews in Israel and also elsewhere, but when they act in such renegade manner when the world community grants them a "state" for themselves in their ancient land, it is difficult to give benefit of doubt for the minority of good Jews and make a rather fine distinction between the war-mongering, terrorist state of Jews on the one side and the few "good" Jews who may be there world-wide. For a lower intelligence level like mine, it seems clear that the lesson to be learnt, the moral of the story is "don't allow freedom to Jews".

Hitler, therefore, appears to me not as monstrously as is sought to be painted here in this Forum; he probably had a valid point. That is why I am finding it rather curious that brahmins who were hounded out in TN are not given the same lenient consideration as is sought to be given to the far numerous group of Jews, and, the Bigriver is not painted as a monster as Hitler is depicted. I feel there is an urgent need to change our pov. I hold that in both these cases - Tabras and Jews - the groups in question had some special characteristics which made them the focus of hate by the vast majority; and, I am unable to find any logic in making them blame-free because some good individuals might have been there in both these groups. Since BR is not considered as a monster, by the same rule, Hitler also cannot be labelled a monster and the holocaust was a combined responsibility of the entire non-Jew Germany prior to WW II.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear Shri Nara,

I am in complete agreement with you in regard to the following portion of the above post :

"To take the land that belongs to Palestinians and establishing a state for European Jews was a criminal act. The Europeans could have carved out parts of Germany and given it to the Jews, and there would have been some justice in that. But to drive out Palestinians to make way for a Israeli state is criminal.

To declare Israel as a Jewish state is like declaring India a Hindu state -- which the Modi supporters would love, but ain't happening -- or declaring USA a White State. Yet this is what they are demanding and finding support in USA and elsewhere.

But this is a digression, this is another topic, if it is criticism of Israeli state and the terrorism they visit upon ordinary Palestinians, then I am with you 100%. "

Now, you make a distinction between Jews, the people and Israel, the state of the Jews and its representative government. I have no data to show that the israeli government is a dictatorship, or even an oligarchy or plutocracy; it is representative of its people, which means the Jews. You also agree that this establishment of Israel in Palestine was a criminal act and also agree that the Israeli state (the government representing the will of its Jewish population) indulges in acts of terrorism upon ordinary Palestinians, in a very routine sort of way.

These aspects make me conclude that the Jews, as a group, when allowed to be free, will behave as irresponsible terrorists and not as a peace-loving group of people. Granted that there may be good people among those nearly 6 million Jews in Israel and also elsewhere, but when they act in such renegade manner when the world community grants them a "state" for themselves in their ancient land, it is difficult to give benefit of doubt for the minority of good Jews and make a rather fine distinction between the war-mongering, terrorist state of Jews on the one side and the few "good" Jews who may be there world-wide. For a lower intelligence level like mine, it seems clear that the lesson to be learnt, the moral of the story is "don't allow freedom to Jews".

Hitler, therefore, appears to me not as monstrously as is sought to be painted here in this Forum; he probably had a valid point. That is why I am finding it rather curious that brahmins who were hounded out in TN are not given the same lenient consideration as is sought to be given to the far numerous group of Jews, and, the Bigriver is not painted as a monster as Hitler is depicted. I feel there is an urgent need to change our pov. I hold that in both these cases - Tabras and Jews - the groups in question had some special characteristics which made them the focus of hate by the vast majority; and, I am unable to find any logic in making them blame-free because some good individuals might have been there in both these groups. Since BR is not considered as a monster, by the same rule, Hitler also cannot be labelled a monster and the holocaust was a combined responsibility of the entire non-Jew Germany prior to WW II.

Dear Sir,

Acc. world history, Jews were considered to be engaged in usury and bleeding the population by charging exorbitant interest rates (Shylock, Bernie Madoff et al?). Maybe the Germans detested this fact. But then, Israel did whoop the backside of a particular community which has been a huge thorn in the flesh just about everywhere.

<posts about EVR are banned. - Praveen>

What Hitler did was very bad, but perhaps it was a case of the entire German society rebeling against what they might have perceived as usurious practises?

 

[tks]

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Why are you so cruel to me dear Sangom -- just kidding . I did see this post but only skimmed it. You made me take a closer look and I see that he has said some negative things about me. I have learned to expect this and accept it as the price for stating my views forthrightly.

Sri Nara - I did not say negative things about you. It was only about your specific post.
Stating views forthrightly is a trait I respect , my forum brother Nara - Just that it has to come across as respectful from the point of view of any reasonable person on the receiving side. Comparing Rama Nama chanting to watching porn will be seen inappropriate and disrespectful by most people even if they are not theists.

Those who were paying attention may have noticed I never said anything about Mrs. RR or her reverence to rama nama, or anyone else's. She made a comment that I thought was somewhat flippant and I took it the logical banality of it. She didn't like that, but that is tough, I didn't say anything unprompted. If their feelings are sensitive they should stay away from making flippant comments, LOL.

I did not see anywhere where you explained how Mrs RR's comment came across flippant to you.. Perhaps MrS RR's somewhat polite response may have come across about being sensitive to you but I read those and understood that it was about showing disrespect to a vast number of theists.

Sangom, I am used to these slings and arrows. If these comments bring tks and his likes a measure of satisfaction, then I am willing to oblige, go ahead, bring it on, take your best shot, that is what I say to them.

It is not about bringing any satisfaction .. My respect would have gone up for your posts immensely if you had unconditionally apologized to Mrs RR and all theist for your reaction.. Brother Nara - I actually like you even if I do not read all your posts. You bring a certain element of liveliness to the forum even if I do not agree with your views and many times your posts have had the unintended consequence of true Laughing Out Loud moments !

Having said these, let me plead - try not to play victim here .. as in the statement above

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[zebra16]

Thanks Sangom, I know the words you wrote do not reflect your true self, and I am saddened that the usual suspects are having a field day.

Nobody asked you or Sangom to give a free show to the **usual suspects** whoever they may be

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom,



You are narrating the story as told in bible. Bible is not an authentic document and it has been revised so many times depending on the needs of the time. And Jesus was himself a jew. I have a fundamental objection to any one quoting ancient history (which is not authentic) to declare a group of people criminals today. It is just the history and much time has passed since then. Bible describes about Adam and Eve as the first two humans on this planet which should automatically mean that we are all progenies born out of incest and in todays times incest is a despicable practice. Thus whether it is the jews or the Brahmins I would prefer to judge them by their actions today. That brings us to the next para of your post.

Dear Shri Vaagmi Sir,

I agree Bible is not an authentic document, but then, much of the history we otherwise know, is also not based on authentic documents in all respects; history itself is partly the imagination and proclivities of the historians. Hence, if we have to reject the biblical account of crucifixion, then, for the same reason/s we may have to take the holocaust-related narratives painting Hitler as the only monster and cause of the death of many thousands of Jews. That is why I object to the wholesale, mindless purchase of all that is touted about by WW II victors.

No Mr. Sangom. Israel behaves the way it behaves because the hostility of all its neighbours towards it is real. Size and population wise Israel is small when compared to its neighbours and so can easily be overrun in a war if it does not have superior technology and firepower. There is no paranoid thinking involved here. It is being just realistic. Attacking enemies and keeping them on tenterhooks is a military doctrine. It delivers results. And do you remember the Mogadishu Airport hijacking and hold-up? Israelis suffered extreme anxiety and pain during that entire episode and came out on top because of sheer courage and meticulous planning. Overnight Idi Amin became a darling of the people who were suffering from anti Semitism. In spite of all this even today there are rogue militias in the neighbouring countries of Israel whose members get up in the morning, fire a couple of rockets into Isreli territory and then go wash their teeth to have a cup of tea. It is like my having a cup of coffee while reading the Times of India in the morning every day. What do you expect Israel to do given this kind of hostility all around. India is a peaceloving nation only for you and me. Ask a Pakistani he will tell you a different story.

Sir, I would consider that, if what you say is true - which I am unable to accept completely - the proper course for Israel will be to fire a couple of rockets as "tea-time" entertainment on all those neghbours who are prone to creating nuisance. But all the available news give the impression that Israel mounts a formal and deadly serious attack and captures some areas which it refuses to cede back. In my view this behaviour of the Jewish state does not sync with the Jews as a peace-loving and lovable people.

Here it is not a Palestinian or Syrian talking about Israel but we are all Indians and all are talking about Israel which is not our neighbour.

What is said is true. I will go one step further and say this. The Anglosaxons were comparatively more humane and never crossed the precipice to fall into abyss. They were not capable of such utter disregard for decency and were incapable of shutting off their mental discipline to such an extent like the Germans. I am sure even if an English Hitler were there, the unspeakable brutality of a holocaust would not have happened. I still maintain that the easy way out for a struggling politician confined to a doghouse to capture the imagination of a people and rally them under his leadership is to freely distribute an opiate to the masses. Hatred for a community, a religion, a race, an identifiable group of people are all such handy opiates. Hitler and Bigriver used it well. Both were successful in their game. In both cases the country suffered. A few decades of development has suffered in Tamilnadu because of bigriver and in Germany it was the world at large which suffered in a wasteful war. In both cases the practitioners of this kind of hatred politics could not control and put back the genie into the bottle after it served its initial purpose. Like you have said, the hatred opiate has one of the most reasonable, logical and convincing argument for its existence when its distributors said non chalantly how can the entire country-meaning the majority of the people-be wrong. It is they who elected the perpetrators of holocaust. So that gives the necessary justification for the holocaust. The entire Europeans can not be lunatics so goes the argument. Very logical. Isn’t it? And the next argument is that the haters as well as the hated have basic problems. So the blame is to be equally shared. Whether it is bigriver or Hitler they always knew that the opiate dependency will throw up such brilliant debating talent. They need not really do much on that.

Sir, I am amused at our human naiveté! There seems to be no qualms about giving a blanket certificate of good behaviour to the millions of Anglosaxons, shutting off mental discipline by all the millions of Germans, etc., with one go of the pen, there is much hesitation in characterizing the Jews (most of them, at least) as having deserved the opprobrium of all the millions of Europeans, due to some characteristic or other of theirs. Perhaps this exemplifies the truth that what we want to believe shuts our eyes!

I am unable to believe that there was/is no Anglo-saxon who can be cruel or who could have been cruel. The behaviour of the British as colonists in India does not support such a view, but then I am unable to say who was or was not an Anglo-saxon among those Britishers.

< snipped >

 

[Nara]

<discussions about EVR are Banned. Further mentions will lead to your account being suspended.>

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Nara,
Why is every post that you pen is only about you or your version of the truth?
You do write beautifully but it is about your pet peeves, you seem to taunt every other member with your outlandish views in your bombastic language.
Your never consider how others will perceive it. You seem to lack empathy for others POV or their feelings, some times you express sympathy with others.

 

[tbs]

Mr. Nara,
Why is every post that you pen is only about you or your version of the truth?
You do write beautifully but it is about your pet peeves, you seem to taunt every other member with your outlandish views in your bombastic language.
Your never consider how others will perceive it. You seem to lack empathy for others POV or their feelings, some times you express sympathy with others.

hi sir,

nara is not ONLY a writer but also good orator tooo....but the problem is with time/place......in his poorvashrama...a devout

SRI VAISHNAVA TOO.... but when a devout a vaishnava can become a naive ATHEIST TOO....he is worshipper of EVR/ AMBEDKAR....

he is not against sri ramanuja and but against latter saints of sri vaishnavas.............he is against brahmanism and some

part of hinduism.....he can manipulate any truth according to his choice....

 

[biswa]

Mr. Prasad, I am reminded of the (in)famous dialog from "A Few Good Men": "You cant handle the truth. .....
You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.".

Each person has his/her own view of the truth but everybody thinks it is The Truth.

 

[Nara]

I welcome reasoned critique of the views I express with a passion many of you may never ever experience. I have never and will never insist my views are the ultimate truth. But in so far as these are my views, they are the ultimate truth to me at the present time. I am willing and able to be persuaded to change my views if persuasive arguments are offered. What more can be asked of anyone? Yet you guys say this very trait is a negative one, LOL.

What I care about I write about. If that is seen as my pet peeve, I couldn't care less, or in the language of some another righteous member, I care as much as the posterior anatomical part of a particularly icky vermin.

To talk about other people's empathy takes a special kind of arrogance. What do any of you know about my emotional nuances. Stop this nonsense, mind your own damn business.

tbs, what you say is obnoxious, I take serious umbrage, prove it to me that I "manipulate the truth according to my choice" whatever that means. I tell the truth as I see it, and I am willing to fight for it. With equal vigor I am ready to be corrected if you can show me with evidence and/or rational and reasoned arguments that my view is wrong.

 

[Nara]

<discussions about EVR are Banned. Further mentions will lead to your account being suspended.>

Ok, suspend my account, but at the same time suspend all the other members who not only discuss EVR, but are ones who bring his name up in the first place. Why single me out?

 

[Nara]

To those KG children who have been complaining to Praveen about me, take a look at this warning he has issued:

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/14863-must-read-your-attention.html#post224934

Don't even try to bring up a discussion of him even in veiled indirect fashion. If you do, I will respond. Let us all avoid unnecessary and unwarranted trouble.

 

[zebra16]

To those KG children who have been complaining to Praveen about me, take a look at this warning he has issued:

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/14863-must-read-your-attention.html#post224934

Don't even try to bring up a discussion of him even in veiled indirect fashion. If you do, I will respond. Let us all avoid unnecessary and unwarranted trouble.

This is a strawman which you never fail to attempt erecting.

If others are posting on a banned topic become a KG child and report it to Praveen like other KG kids.

You are not doing any favour to other members by saying that they have been discussing the banned topic from msg # 4 and you joined the discussion only from msg # 44. Be a responsible kid and conform to the school norms rather than saying other kids are unruy.

 

[Nara]

....If others are posting on a banned topic become a KG child and report it to Praveen like other KG kids.

zebra, it was Praveen himself who told me that there have been many complaints about me that I am discussing the forbidden topic. Go back and review the archives and you will see that there at least 10 times the posts discussing this topic before I entered the fray. You are a well known part time sniper anyway, never one to stay and finish a discussion. I used to have some respect for you, but not anymore, I am sorry to say ....