Homosexuality an offence, says Supreme Court IANS

[krish44]

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My thoughts on this issue:

1. vote bank or no vote bank homosexuality is an individual preference. So there is no need to criminalise it and make it a punishable offence.

2. There is no need to do anything that will give an impression that the Govt. is encouraging it because it is a deviant behavior. It is unnatural. I dont subscribe to the liberal theory that any orifice is ok as long as an individual has an orientation or a preference.

3. A sexual practice has three basic reasons. a)harmones b)pheromones c)a need for love culminating in physical union,d)the need to have children. Among all the 4reasons the last one is the socially relevant one. Homosexuality has nothing to do with the last one viz.having children.

4. The Govt should take steps to decriminalize homosexuality as long as it is practised in private. There can not be any reason to treat homosexuals also as a social minority and give them the benefits of other minorities. There is no need to recognize a gay/lesbian marriage as a legally valid marriage. It will lead to comic situations like a "widow"/"widower" claiming the benefits under law when one partner passes away.

5. It is a peculiar, deviant, kinky trait to be confined to individual bed rooms. Homosexuals are people who deserve sympathy for their pathetic existence and nothing more.

I agree with you to the extent homosexuality is an individual preference to be decriminalised and confined to bedrooms
it is behaviour which the majority does not practice or approve of.
there is no need for either sympathy or encouragement of LGBT
govt can take the stance of benign neglect
majority hetrerosexuals can make merry because they have hormones and phero hormones ,have physical union based on love and have plenty of children which you think is socially relevant !

 

[kunjuppu]

across the spectrum here tambrams appear to agree that homosexuality should not be a crime, albeit with various levels of tolerance.

surprise is that outside of here, in tamil or indian, press, public, politicians... all vehemently oppose it as criminal. i could not believe that such a large majority of our populace consider being gay as a crime. something does not jive.

 

[Nara]

Says merriam-webster.com: Deviant = different from what is considered to be normal or morally correct.

There is nothing abnormal for a percentage of the population to be homosexual (HS). We see this in the animal kingdom as well. There is nothing right or wrong about it, i.e. it has nothing to do with morality. So, HS is not deviant any more than being left-handed is deviant. For more on this: Sexual orientation, homosexuality and bisexuality.

To think that HS behavior must remain illegal in order to keep homosexuals from engaging in predatory behavior is silly. Predatory sexual behavior is not a special attribute of homosexuals, there are enough hetrosexual predeators. The fact is, with the current laws, most if not all sexually predatory acts are committed by straight men.

If we can have widows and widowers from straight marriages, why are widows and widowers from same-sex marriage comical? If the two people have been in a committed relationship what possible harm is there for the surviving partner/spouse to get death benefits? Same-sex marriages do not affect anybody else in any way.

We all know that most straight sex is not for producing children. We go to extraordinary lengths to avoid pregnancy. Would such sex be considered deviant and kinky? Most, if not all the sexual acts depicted in Kajuraho, many of which may be considered extremely deviant and extremely kinky, are between hetrosexual couples or orgies. HS behavior is tame compared to these.

There is nothing pathetic about the sexual orientation of anyone, straight or homo. We all deserve basic dignity, straight and HS, not anybody's sympathy. The majority can abhor HS all they want, but it does not have the right to take away the basic dignity of HS people.

 

[Vaagmi]

A man meets a man and they fall in love with each other. They marry. Their HS relationship rocks for some time and then one day is on rocks. If A and B are the individuals involved, A goes to court saying his right to conjugal bliss has been denied by B and requests the court to order B to behave. B in turn says his conjugal bliss is different from A's conjugal bliss because B wants a "role reversal" due to boredom and custom. Now the judge has to go mad or tear his head and hairs to find out who should play what "role". When can a demand for "role reversal" be considered a basic conjugal right etc., And if their lesbian biological original wives were to jump into the fray it will be a free for all. Some drama this. LOL.

 

[mkrishna100]

I found Finance Minister P Chidambaram's interview on NDTV to be very good and clear . He made it very clear that the LGBT Community is a reality whether we like it or not and even if their percentage is low , in a vast population like India ( with more than a billion people ) a small percentage will still mean lakhs / crores of people and we just cant ignore them . He also said that Homosexual relationships among consenting adults in their privacy is acceptable . I too believe that ir-respective of whether we like it or not LGBT Community is a reality in India and I do not know how this Supreme court verdict will be challenged . Just 2 hrs back I saw in a Tamil Channell a group of people from LGBT Community spoke on TV saying that they cant be ignored as they also have the vote weapon with them and are observing which are the political parties against them and which are for them and will definitely make this an election issue .

 

[Nara]

Are you homophobic?

Here's an Easy Test to Find Out If You're Anti-Gay (And Maybe Don't Even Know It) | Noah Michelson

From this article (slightly edited):
If you're fine with gays as long as you don't have to see them kissing or holding hands, then you are anti-gay.
If you don't have anything against gays but wouldn't want a gay man leading your son's scout troop, then you are anti-gay.
If you think that gays have any less integrity or humanity than straight people, then you are anti-gay.

To this we can add:
If you think a gay must be pitied, then you are anti-gay.
If you think gay divorce is funny, then you are anti-gay.
If you think a widowed gay is comical, then you are anti-gay.

 

[biswa]

There seems to be a presumption, that any person or family exercising caution has to respond to an "anti-gay charge".

I may be against any kind of PDA, gay or straight. That does not make me anti-gay or anti-straight.

I may not want a gay man to lead a boys scout troop, just as I may not want a straight man to lead a girls scout troop. That does not make me anti-gay or anti-straight.

I may be uncomfortable sharing a restroom/shower with a gay person (highway rest stops are prime locations for gay encounters btw) just as I may be uncomfortable sharing a restroom/shower with a woman (most likely the woman would be uncomfortable too). That does not make me anti-gay or anti-straight.

Dont understand why gay advocates have to take such a strident tone.

 

[Nara]

So, is challenging anti-gay attitude the same as taking a strident tone? Those days are gone. Everyone deserves dignity. Denying this dignity will be called out.

If you don't want a gay man leading a boys scout troop for no other reason than the kind of sexual attraction he is oriented towards, then you are indeed anti-gay. If you are against a straight man leading a girl's scout troop for no other reason than he is a straight man, then you are weird or one who has unnatural fears.

 

[renuka]

I may be uncomfortable sharing a restroom/shower with a gay person (highway rest stops are prime locations for gay encounters btw) just as I may be uncomfortable sharing a restroom/shower with a woman (most likely the woman would be uncomfortable too). That does not make me anti-gay or anti-straight.

.

Have any of you guys ever sneaked into a female rest room?

You know that some females take so long to get out of the rest room..God knows why they take so long to piss!

Really..believe me..especially at Highway Rest Stops..or at Petrol Stations Rest Room..sometimes we have to wait so long for a woman to get out of the room.

Some females hold up everyone in an aeroplane too..Males somehow are fast.


I feel unisex restrooms(like what we find at some restaurants) usually make people finish fast cos they start feeling uncomfortable when the opposite sex is also waiting for the room.

 

[Nara]

These guys are already sharing restrooms with gays, they just don't know it and nothing dire has happened, no? BTW, guys, gays are interested in other gays, and therefore, you have nothing to fear, unless you are gay, in which case you probably want them to come on to you and they may not because they aren't into you because of your public exhibition of homophobia.

It is amazing that the same old arguments homophobes used years earlier in the U.S. are being raised by the Indian homophobes now. The same fate lies ahead for Indian homophobes as US homophobes.

 

[krish44]

These guys are already sharing restrooms with gays, they just don't know it and nothing dire has happened, no? BTW, guys, gays are interested in other gays, and therefore, you have nothing to fear, unless you are gay, in which case you probably want them to come on to you and they may not because they aren't into you because of your public exhibition of homophobia.

It is amazing that the same old arguments homophobes used years earlier in the U.S. are being raised by the Indian homophobes now. The same fate lies ahead for Indian homophobes as US homophobes.

You know NARA ji When I was in fifth class, waiting to catch a public transport in delhi I was approached by a tamil iyengar brahmin with caste signs who tried getting friendly with me and attempted to feel me inappropriately. It was a deserted busstop and I had to flee. I tremble when I think of it even after sixty years. you may dismiss it as one odd incident. Do you know the harassment the motorists have toput up withat traffic signals from transgenders. and the language they use in case you do not give them money to the extent they expect

 

[krish44]

Have any of you guys ever sneaked into a female rest room?

You know that some females take so long to get out of the rest room..God knows why they take so long to piss!

Really..believe me..especially at Highway Rest Stops..or at Petrol Stations Rest Room..sometimes we have to wait so long for a woman to get out of the room.

Some females hold up everyone in an aeroplane too..Males somehow are fast.


I feel unisex restrooms(like what we find at some restaurants) usually make people finish fast cos they start feeling uncomfortable when the opposite sex is also waiting for the room.

renuka ji
things are bad in delhi as it is with separate toilets. it would require a very brave brahmin to attempt to go to female toilets. the recent women anti molesting bill
has succeded in putting quite a bit of fear in educated men.

 

[Vaagmi]

Are you homophobic?

Here's an Easy Test to Find Out If You're Anti-Gay (And Maybe Don't Even Know It) | Noah Michelson

From this article (slightly edited):
If you're fine with gays as long as you don't have to see them kissing or holding hands, then you are anti-gay.
If you don't have anything against gays but wouldn't want a gay man leading your son's scout troop, then you are anti-gay.
If you think that gays have any less integrity or humanity than straight people, then you are anti-gay.

To this we can add:
If you think a gay must be pitied, then you are anti-gay.
If you think gay divorce is funny, then you are anti-gay.
If you think a widowed gay is comical, then you are anti-gay.

That is a gay's perception of the world and society at large. It is binary thinking of the sort: "if you are not with us , you are with them. We will bomb you to the stone ages".

There can be people in the society (in fact these are the majority) who do not bother what gays do within the four walls of their bedrooms. They are neither pro-gay nor anti-gay.

There are a large number of people who think holding hands and passionate kissing by gays in public is an affront to the society. They have no objection to their doing it in their apartment bedroom. They are not anti-gay. They think the freedom of a gay stops at the tip of his nose. Public space is common to society and is shared by others. Their sensitivities do matter.

I would certainly mind my son being led on a scouting expedition by a known gay for obvious reasons. This does not make me a anti-gay. I won't mind sending my son on that trip if I have sufficient assurances that there are other balanced individuals instructors too are going with that team.

A gay deserves sympathy because he/she is helpless until he/she finds a match with similar orientation. For gays the options are limited. And there are many in the society who looks at them and treats them with a dislike bordering on contempt. So a sympathiser to their plight is not anti-gay just because he sympathises with their pathetic situation.

A gay divorce by itself is not funny. It throws up situations and questions which border on madness and that is funny. Society is yet to grapple with those situations and questions. Wait and see. Don't jump the gun.

A widowed gay's problems will start the moment the other gay in life is dead and gone. The first question to be answered is whether the survivor is a widow or widower or something else. Have we settled this issue? Then the lawbook. If a man who had a wife and a gay partner and had left a will that the estate should go to the widow, who will get it? Is there one widow or two widows? Is the survivor a widow or widower in the first place (will this depend on the role played while alive and if so how do you prove this?). Questions and questions which parliament will have to deal with.


This is what was pointed out. It was not an attempt to join the band-wagon of pro-gayists or anti-gayist. The views were that of a thinking individual who is neutral about homosexuality. Thanks.

 

[tbs]

hi

i know some gay attitudes in india........when i was young.....some boys are attracted each other in veda patasala....i wont call

as homosexual...but attraction to same gender......the same thing ...when i was in army.....many guys are gays.....they attract


ONLY guys..not the opposite gender......even i had a bitter experiences.....when i was in andaman nicobar islands....i saw a guy

want attract towards me... i feel bad too...but any way ....i feel ...this is kind of mental disorder....

 

[sarang]

Citing animal kingdom and animal behaviour as a support argument is daft. We don't do everything animals do. Incest, father daughter, mother son, brother sister, all fall into permissible domain. Natgeo or animal planet will provide all the incentive for heinous crimes too.

 

[sangom]

My doubt is: if LGBT is a birthright, are not criminals, rapists, goons, robbers, cannibals, necrophilia, zoophilia and so on, equally birthrights?

 

[renuka]

hi

....when i was in andaman nicobar islands....i saw a guy

want attract towards me... i feel bad too...but any way ....i feel ...this is kind of mental disorder....

Dear TBS garu,

You felt bad becos you did not fulfill the desire of the guy who liked you or you felt bad for him that he was chasing you?? I dont get it yaar..

 

[biswa]

If you don't want a gay man leading a boys scout troop for no other reason than the kind of sexual attraction he is oriented towards, then you are indeed anti-gay. If you are against a straight man leading a girl's scout troop for no other reason than he is a straight man, then you are weird or one who has unnatural fears.

Personal attacks anybody? "Ad hominem" to use professorial Latin? Or do the rules not apply to this person hiding in his closet?

 

[biswa]

You know NARA ji When I was in fifth class, waiting to catch a public transport in delhi I was approached by a tamil iyengar brahmin with caste signs who tried getting friendly with me and attempted to feel me inappropriately. It was a deserted busstop and I had to flee. I tremble when I think of it even after sixty years. you may dismiss it as one odd incident. Do you know the harassment the motorists have toput up withat traffic signals from transgenders. and the language they use in case you do not give them money to the extent they expect

You are right, many males have had to endure fondling, manhandling, harrassment etc from other (usually older, more powerful) males. The person who is singing the gay anthem and pretending these things dont happen either had the good fortune to have avoided these encounters in real life or may be a perpetrator himself.

 

[tbs]

Dear TBS garu,

You felt bad becos you did not fulfill the desire of the guy who liked you or you felt bad for him that he was chasing you?? I dont get it yaar..

hi
leave it yaaar....

 

[Nara]

You know NARA ji When I was in fifth class, waiting to catch a public transport in delhi I was approached by a tamil iyengar brahmin with caste signs who tried getting friendly with me and attempted to feel me inappropriately. It was a deserted busstop and I had to flee. I tremble when I think of it even after sixty years. you may dismiss it as one odd incident. Do you know the harassment the motorists have toput up withat traffic signals from transgenders. and the language they use in case you do not give them money to the extent they expect

I had one such experience too, not from an overtly SV fellow. You are traumatized by this experience, rightly so. If boys have it bad, the girls have it even worse. These are perverts and should be recognized as such, even if it was our jovial சித்தப்பா or ever generous மாமா.

But krish44, what you describe, horrific as it is, has nothing do with LGBT people. Just like there are perverts among straight people, there are perverts among them also. Just as you don't judge the entire straight population based upon the perverts among them, don't judge the entire LGBT community based on the actions of some perverts who may very well be among them.

 

[Nara]

My doubt is: if LGBT is a birthright, are not criminals, rapists, goons, robbers, cannibals, necrophilia, zoophilia and so on, equally birthrights?

Dear sangom, LGBT are law abiding people, they don't bother anybody, they don't steal, they don't force themselves upon others like Ganguly or Tarun Tejpal, etc. All they want is some basic rights to live their lives in peace and dignity. Why can't the rest of the society just leave them alone?

--------

There is so much ignorance about LGBT people my head is spinning now. I know some of them, and they are nice people. Except for whom they want to have sex with, they are just like all of us, in fact I would say, in as much as they are a persecuted minority, they are much more empathetic towards others. If Brahmins are really persecuted as they think they are, you will have LGBT community standing with you.

If shikhandi is alright for your Dharmaraja and your Lord Almighty Krishna, what is the problem man?????????

 

[Nara]

Vaagmi, I know we are in two different planes. I have no energy to go toe-to-toe with you on this. All I want to do is to provide a glimpse of the other perspective. So, I am not going to give you a point-by-point rebuttal, just a few comments.

...There are a large number of people who think holding hands and passionate kissing by gays in public is an affront to the society.

This was from the article written by a Western writer. What he, or was it she I don 't remember, is that the same courtesy be shown to same-sex couples as straight couples. The point is, if passionate kissing is an affront, let it be an affront if it is between a man and a women, or between the same sex.

A gay divorce by itself is not funny. It throws up situations and questions which border on madness and that is funny. Society is yet to grapple with those situations and questions. Wait and see. Don't jump the gun.

There is nothing different between straight and Gay in this. They both suffer the loss. They both remarry in the same proportion, or remain celebate in the same proportion. In the U.S. the society has already grappled with it. If past is prologue, the Indian society will soon follow.

 

[mkrishna100]

There is so much ignorance about LGBT people my head is spinning now.

I think Bollywood movies have contributed to the wrong image of Gays /Lesbians . They show these people with peculiar dress and peculiar makeup and peculiar habits while a Gay can be your normal next door neighbor and not look the way as he /she is depicted in a Bollywood Movie . Just like there are perverted Hetrosexual people there are also perverted Gays and we must be careful not to brand all the gays as perverts .

 

[renuka]

hi
leave it yaaar....

I guess most of us would have had some same gender person trying for us....we can always politely decline.