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How and when will India become a truely developed nation?

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Mr.Raghy--[need not adress me as Sir]-
all can very well interfere--discussion is not prerogative of any--is open to all

it is not to generalise all,what is happening will spread to others--i am not against Aus public in general at all-- concern is-Aus govt allowed spurious inst which allowed substandard students who could have created some cultural attitudes--that in turn could have created mess--
--what made Aus govt to allow these substandard inst--after allowing with large amount of money from substandard students--v/Aus [govt ]cannot expect to behave well

these incidents must be handled by Aus govt/court for its happening --no one can take law into hands--what culture of Aus is showing to others --in handling-denial of NOT happening?
do public have moral authority to bash any unruly immg/any and continue to do so
since this is not sporadic--it is becoming routine--hence the concern for discussion

--if Aus is serious--it must stop spurious inst-who bring in candidates with improper credentials and taking large fee
[govt earning]
 
thanks siva.

thanks amala, raghy.

folks,

canada, to an extent, is like australia. it has the second largest land mass in the world, but does not have the critical population size to expand and develop in all areas.

ofcourse, it can open up the doors, and see the whole world at its doors overnight (i happened briefly in early 1970s, when canada revoked visa rules for anyone. very soon, we had enterprising folks, rent a jet plane from amritsar or new delhi, land in toronto as 'guests or visitors', and disappear to work illegally.

one has to say, that even though it might sound racist, that the anglo saxons are into good governing overall, when compared to the rest of the world. i would imagine, the quality of life either in canada or oz, would dramatically dive downwards, if immigration is not controlled, so that the next generation, of multi ethnic folks, atleast imbibes the respect for law, and rules & traditions. this is how i feel.

the quality of life in canada is good. once you have a job. siva, nobody here has heard of 'food technology', because not enough people demand those things. there is no merchant navy. manufacturing is confined to a few industries. but that does not mean this is a bad country.

siva, if you had one of the 'low level' trades, you will be making $100,000 a year, a very handsome sum. a good portion of it will also be hard cash, meaning you can avoid taxes. not a bad life at all. so, i would be pretty respectful of those guys, as it is very hard to get appointments for them.

it is unfortunate, i think, that we TBs put too much emphasis on 'high professionals', as these folks often are salaried people. there are enough unemployed salaried people here. as i said, the sri lankan tamils thrive, because they get into business and do very well. this country is a heaven for the entrepreneur, small or big. but engineering and engineering related professionals of any kind, immigrating will have a tough time to find a job. accountants seem to be doing ok.

the country is not backward minded, as siva says. infact, i find, the whites of today, quite different in attitudes than 30 years ago, for the better. my children are canadians, and consider themselves canadians. they cannot relate to recent indian immigrants. i have heard this complaint before, that local born kids ignore their new immigrant cousins. to an extent it is true, as there is a huge cultural gap, but in this age of internet, increasingly less so. youth anywhere in the world, can relate to youtube, facebook, twitter et al.

siva, i am not so sure about australia either. i have friends living there for about 25 years, and they love the place. they find ausssies pretty broad minded. this recent attacks on indians, i think, is an aberration. i have seen some of the 'students' from north india especially - loud, bragging and speaking in hindi loudly publicly just like delhi. it creates a bad image. i heard that the aussie embassy is now screening indians better. good for them.

you see, we TBs as a rule are law abiding, and do not get into these types of troubles or issues. so, i am surprised, that you talk of aussie racism. are we indians, not the biggest racists in the world. just look at our screening process for a marriage. the aussies don't do that, do they? i hear, that they accept asian brides or grooms into their family willingly, openly and cheerfully enjoying the asian functions whether it be chinese or indian. can we say the same about even other indian or tamil groups, let alone westerners?

siva, i think, it will take a while for you to get acclimatized to the west and its values. believe me, they are more honest overall, and the work ethic is better valued there than in india. there is a huge respect for the rule of the law, which indians, as a rule, we tend to flout, and then complain of racism. hopefully you will feel better in oz over the years. best wishes.


coming to my subject-FT this is rare to any country[not bragging]
this is important in Food processing industry which is very important for economy and important for life in developed countries--there r hundreds of this--very established in dev countries
well--apart from my exp,very many engineers other that IT were doing temp jobs for many years--for they were --not --preferred /allowed in perm/temp job in the Industry/org--that is why i made the point--not by taking my subject alone--i must state what was happening,why to cover up? the real issue--treating as odd/rare occurrence

at the same time --Can is good place for business--v professionals with immg do not go there for that--
many Chinese do from honkong[before Chinese take over]and established good business with Canadian help
there r/must many good things about Canada/Asu
v take up some issues that did/do go well--hence we discuss

why to generalize
--if v r taking many bad issues of India--it must 'not' mean --nothing --good --is happening!

good and bad happens everywhere--
if v r not critic about something 'wrong'--then v r very complacent
at the same time--there must not be hate--but it must be progressive--what v call as democratic

why behave like politician--covering up all bad issues and treat everything is fine
[no doubt discussing here--will not solve any problem of any country--i prefer to stop here]
---concluded---
 
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Sri.Siva,

"Aus govt allowed spurious inst which allowed substandard students who could have created some cultural attitudes--that in turn could have created mess--
--what made Aus govt to allow these substandard inst--after allowing with large amount of money from substandard students--v/Aus [govt ]cannot expect to behave well"

Sri.Siva, Every educational institution is required to renew their license every year. Sometimes, an institute may be recommended to make few improvements before the following years renewal. That's how dubious institutes enrol large number of students between license renewal periods. If and when the institutes do not meet the license renewal requirements, those institutes are forced to stop offering courses. This is the standard procedure, that I know of. When the students gets stranded, most of the times, the state government offer the students an alternative to complete their education. My point is, the Government would shut the dubious institutes only when their inefficiency is proved; not before. By the way, the Government is not getting any money from these deals. I would not use rather heavy terms like 'substandard' to explain the students. Almost all the students come here with hopes and dreams; most of them are willing to work hard to fulfill their dreams (I personally know many such students. I was a full time student until the end of 2009. I sat with these students all night to complete assignments, to prepare for the exams etc).

"these incidents must be handled by Aus govt/court for its happening --no one can take law into hands--what culture of Aus is showing to others --in handling-denial of NOT happening?"

Rudd nephew 'caught up in KKK stunt' | News.com.au

Two Indian Students Attacked In Australia

No one is taking the law in their hands; but, the beasts attacking the helpless students are breaking the law. Australian people are not practising racism' Aussie Govt.is not practising racism. They are not denial. Bullies normally would work to soften their vulnerable victims; bullies are always afraid of retaliations. So, even though they out number their victims by 4 or 5 to 1, still they would try psychological methods to soften their victims. Sri.Siva, Aussie culture may not be represended by a few law breaking bullies.

"do public have moral authority to bash any unruly immg/any and continue to do so
since this is not sporadic--it is becoming routine--hence the concern for discussion"

The general public does not take up bashing people. By the way, the victims are not immigrants; but vulnerable students, which makes it much worse.

Cheers!
 
Sri.Siva,

"Aus govt allowed spurious inst which allowed substandard students who could have created some cultural attitudes--that in turn could have created mess--
--what made Aus govt to allow these substandard inst--after allowing with large amount of money from substandard students--v/Aus [govt ]cannot expect to behave well"

Sri.Siva, Every educational institution is required to renew their license every year. Sometimes, an institute may be recommended to make few improvements before the following years renewal. That's how dubious institutes enrol large number of students between license renewal periods. If and when the institutes do not meet the license renewal requirements, those institutes are forced to stop offering courses. This is the standard procedure, that I know of. When the students gets stranded, most of the times, the state government offer the students an alternative to complete their education. My point is, the Government would shut the dubious institutes only when their inefficiency is proved; not before. By the way, the Government is not getting any money from these deals. I would not use rather heavy terms like 'substandard' to explain the students. Almost all the students come here with hopes and dreams; most of them are willing to work hard to fulfill their dreams (I personally know many such students. I was a full time student until the end of 2009. I sat with these students all night to complete assignments, to prepare for the exams etc).

"these incidents must be handled by Aus govt/court for its happening --no one can take law into hands--what culture of Aus is showing to others --in handling-denial of NOT happening?"

Rudd nephew 'caught up in KKK stunt' | News.com.au

Two Indian Students Attacked In Australia

No one is taking the law in their hands; but, the beasts attacking the helpless students are breaking the law. Australian people are not practising racism' Aussie Govt.is not practising racism. They are not denial. Bullies normally would work to soften their vulnerable victims; bullies are always afraid of retaliations. So, even though they out number their victims by 4 or 5 to 1, still they would try psychological methods to soften their victims. Sri.Siva, Aussie culture may not be represended by a few law breaking bullies.

"do public have moral authority to bash any unruly immg/any and continue to do so
since this is not sporadic--it is becoming routine--hence the concern for discussion"

The general public does not take up bashing people. By the way, the victims are not immigrants; but vulnerable students, which makes it much worse.

Cheers!

--i made mistake in stating as immg--u r right--must read as "students"--'dev country' must not involve in encouraging bad institutes-
other statements made r vindicatory
---concluded---[as i am hijacking the topic of the thread]
 
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this is in today's economic times

Biggest bubble in history is growing every day- International Business-News-The Economic Times

it talks about the huge amount of dollar reserves that china has, and its potential harmful impact on the world.

so, folks, those of you, with lotsa dollas, convert them into.....

gold?

This is the problem with all developing countries. Everybody wants to have reserves of foreign exchange assets and USA just prints dollars and dump them on these nations.

I have already given link to the following article of business week another thread also.

Obama?s $6.3 Trillion Scam Is America?s Shame: Jonathan Weil - BusinessWeek

It is high time all the developing countries look for alternate investment opportunities as otherwise it is going to hurt them more than anybody else.

All the best
 
This is the problem with all developing countries. Everybody wants to have reserves of foreign exchange assets and USA just prints dollars and dump them on these nations.

I have already given link to the following article of business week another thread also.

Obama?s $6.3 Trillion Scam Is America?s Shame: Jonathan Weil - BusinessWeek

It is high time all the developing countries look for alternate investment opportunities as otherwise it is going to hurt them more than anybody else.

All the best

thanks venkat.

unfortunately, there is nothing they can put their money in.

china, is investing in huge mines to feed its mills. it wants to buy timberlands in canada and mines here too.

the trouble is, if china dumps too many dollars, the dollar value falls, and china's hoardings depreciate.

the usa does not care. why should it? as long as there is a demand, it will print. as it did during the vietnam war. and caused the immense inflation of the seventies and early eighties.

the right attitude is for folks to balance the trade. but the asian countries like japan, korea, singapore, taiwan and now china, built their economies by keeping their currencies artificially low, and exporting their stuff the usa, and in the process, gaining knowledge transfer from the west.

not sure how all this is going to end. i would not keep my non existent wealth in u.s. dollars, though.
 
We should first be clear as to what we mean by "development". Assuming that we want to be developed like the western countries, the first and foremost thing for India is to reduce its population.

Next people will have to become less religious and more sincere in doing their duty towards the country (and not God).


Third, corruption should be given very strict punishments; politicians should not be allowed to stand for any election in their entire lifetime, if, they are proved corrupt. Similarly government servants should be removed from service and no benefits from Government funds (pension, gratuity) should be given to them.
 
We should first be clear as to what we mean by "development". Assuming that we want to be developed like the western countries, the first and foremost thing for India is to reduce its population. .

sangom,

can we mean development to be a state of the nation, where there is 90% of the population is middle class, education is affordable, healthcare assured (though not necessarily provided free) to all in the same quality by the state and above all there is a sense of civility and respect between the public and the government.

a good example would be new zealand, which is primarily agrarian, but considered developed. singapore can be considered developed but a small city state.

surprisingly i would consider small well administered carribean nations like barbados as developed. it is a pleasant surprise to see a country ruled by descendents of slaves, with good roads, free medical care, and no poverty.

i find that larger the country, the more difficult to apply the uniformity of development. at its peak, there is no country to match the u.s. but at the same time, the u.s. is tolerant of an indifference bordering to cruelty to its poorest. it is such a callousness that would make me desist considering the u.s. as developed.

the western europe model of a benign state providing a decent standard of living to all, might come close to universal development, but that model is now under attack and i am not sure if it will survive in its original shape.

population can be increased without much effort. to reduce, is a painful process, as the west is finding out now. a reduction of people in the current keynesian model, would mean the deprivement of labour in critical areas at critical times. the west solves this, albeit not too elegantly, through migration from african or islamic countries.

japan adamantly refuses to recognize its migrant labour who fill a vital gap to afford the rest of the citizenry to enjoy their accustomed to standard of living.

when india's population levels off, i think, the numbers will be static, but the gap in the labour market will be filled by the ever prolific wombs from pakistan & east bengal, thus giving a new meaning to the bjp's akhand bharat concept.

Next people will have to become less religious and more sincere in doing their duty towards the country (and not God). .

religion in the west, since end of world war 2, has taken a beating, thanks to increased prosperity.

however, countries like saudi, which are among the wealthiest, not only remain crudely religious, but have managed to leverage their oil money to export the most barbaric version of islam to the rest of the world. just to appreciate this fact, we can note that almost all of the 9/11 attackers came from saudi or via saudi.

religion never played a major part in the chinese culture. what is to be noted with interest, is the undercurrents of evangelical christianity making great headway in south korea, singapore, taiwan and getting a foothold in mainland china.

Third, corruption should be given very strict punishments; politicians should not be allowed to stand for any election in their entire lifetime, if, they are proved corrupt. Similarly government servants should be removed from service and no benefits from Government funds (pension, gratuity) should be given to them.

the word 'should', i think, is the least effective word in the english language. 'should' never works. 'should' be abolished, and we will not miss it.

corruption is as human as red blood cells or snot inside our nose. a country should count itself lucky, if the common man is spared the humiliating exigencies forced upon him through petty corruption - like the policeman demanding 300 ruppees to free a motor cyclist of a trumped charge of speeding and such like.

civil service corruption will vanish when the civil servants are paid sufficiently well, that they can afford a decent livelihood without resorting to under-the-table practices.

such time will come in india. this thanks mainly to technology. i am 60 now, but in my teens, one had to bribe the phone department to get a phone installed in your house. all this flew out of the window when cell phones in their millions made their appearance.

we will have to have faith in the future for a corrupt free india. perhaps not in our lifetime, but maybe in our childrens.

thank you.
 
"Originally posted by kunjuppu

when india's population levels off, i think, the numbers will be static, but the gap in the labour market will be filled by the ever prolific wombs from pakistan & east bengal, thus giving a new meaning to the bjp's akhand bharat concept.

In my view it will take a long time for India's population to level off because of the very factors you cite, viz., the ever prolific wombs from pakistan & east bengal. There will therefore be no gap in the labour market in India for a long time to come, I feel. What will happen by then will be the majority of Indians will belong to Islam!

"Originally posted by kunjuppu

civil service corruption will vanish when the civil servants are paid sufficiently well, that they can afford a decent livelihood without resorting to under-the-table practices.

such time will come in india. this thanks mainly to technology. i am 60 now, but in my teens, one had to bribe the phone department to get a phone installed in your house. all this flew out of the window when cell phones in their millions made their appearance.

Civil servants are paid well now compared to many other sectors but their greed knows no bounds. Secondly almost all tiers of the administration live in day-to-day contact with the politicians and this makes them copy the politicians in enriching themselves.

The corruption at lower levels (petty corruption, which you refer to) arises nowadays due to the fact these are the points of contact with the general public and the money gets pumped up and up, a small share going to every tier till the bulk reaches its destination. That is why I suggested tackling from the top.

Now, I would like to give what astrology has in store for India's future. As you may be aware, our Independence horoscope has kaalasarpa yoga. The third house is afflicted and hence the country will not be able to set a goal and achieve it; it will be like "pala maram kaNDa tachchan", oru maravum veTTAn.
Its best dasa was up to 1965, more or less coinciding with Nehru's tenure. The reamining dasa are all so so. It is surya dasa now, up to 2015. This dasa will somehow keep the country afloat but no great leap can be expected. Next will be Chandra dasa which will aggravate internal differences due to language, river waters and what not. Kuja dasa starting from 2025 will pose real danger to our very existence; while it may not happen that the entire country will be conquered by some other country, large areas may be lost to us.

All in all, we can have only optimistic thoughts. But our Government's policies and actions so far do not show the required degree of foresight; there is also no younger leadership which creates hope in our minds.
 
only when there is meritocracy, commen civil code, provision of adding of sentence for each offence like america.
 
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