How common is IC marriages among TB community in Delhi?

[renuka]

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Intercate marriages take place because caste division itself is adharmic. The four fold divisions found in Purusha suktham and Gita is not birth based and have no connections to Jaathi except name related confusion.

Secondly those professing to uphold Brahmin values are clueless about what they are. All religions of Hinduism may have survived onslaught of invaders over thousand years but the current invasion by western excesses is by far the worst. Many Indians ape the west for their worst qualities.

India is invaded by fake gurus of huge influence and they support superstitions. There is a joke that there are two professions open to school drop outs. One is politics and the other is to become a guru. Followers are waiting to be told to follow.

Everything is passed off as sanathana dharma but almost all practices are nothing but few decades old customs that are rooted in ignorance. Current invasion by the likes of vastu shastra is not eternal but invented and evolved in four hundred years. That is but one example

Corruption has become a way of life including the support by the silent majority that goes along tolerating and yielding

It is hard to tell with reason what one has to protect and why anymore. Youngsters are moving beyond the hypocrisy.

This can all be reversed in about few decades but it will require unifying Matams and various Gurus on few basics.

No one has emerged thus far to take on

 

[Super1223]

Is their any data for this as far as north india is concerned, I.e at what rate girls are marrying out vs boys.

 

[Super1223]

The IC marriages happen of the second and 3rd generation who are settled in Delhi region. They are convent educated, hardly can read & write Tamil and jump to Hindi in a conversation. They may not have studied in Tamil schools. I am not aware of any sort of pressure being applied. Very recently a TB girl married a Gujjar(ST) boy with consent of parents. Boys choose any girl-can be a Punjabi or Bania or a Rajput or a Kayasth allmost all with consent of parents

How common is it for girls to marry out compared to boys

 

[prasad1]

Is their any data for this as far as north india is concerned, I.e at what rate girls are marrying out vs boys.

Your query is misleading. Are you still implying Intercaste marriages of Tamil Brahmins or is it for all India?

Exact data on the boy-to-girl ratio specifically for marriage is not uniformly reported, but extrapolations based on population statistics and marriage customs suggest that for every 1,000 eligible males, there may be around 850–900 eligible females in certain regions, depending on demographic and cultural factors.

Efforts to balance this ratio involve promoting gender equality, addressing sex-selective practices, and ensuring equal opportunities for girls in education and employment.


General Sex Ratio: India has a sex ratio of approximately 940 females per 1,000 males (2011 Census).

Marriage Pool: The sex ratio in the marriageable age group (20–34 years) reflects a surplus of men compared to women.


The marriage ratio is skewed, with more men than women eligible for marriage.
Estimates suggest the ratio often ranges between 1,000 men to 850–900 women, particularly in regions with a strong preference for male children and imbalanced sex ratios at birth.

Factors Affecting Marriage Ratios
Cultural Norms:

Men are expected to marry younger women, widening the eligible age group for men.
Early marriages for women reduce the time they spend in the marriage market.
Regional Variations:

States like Haryana and Punjab, which historically have skewed sex ratios, experience a "marriage squeeze" where many men struggle to find brides.
In contrast, southern and northeastern states often have more balanced ratios.
Interstate and Cross-Cultural Marriages:

To address the shortage of women in some areas, men increasingly marry women from other states or communities.

In this environment, A docile Brahmin from Tamil Nadu may be squeezed out of marriage. And Tamil Girls may prefer a dashing northerner. Fortunately, my mom found me a TB girl, otherwise, I would still be single.

With the practice of early marriage and arranged marriage decreasing, TB boys are ill-prepared. The parents are responsible for not realizing this and failing to teach the boys who expect Girls to marry them and do not know how to woo girls. Sorry boys.

 

[vrajagopalan57]

The marriages of TB's are conducted by the Vadhyar. I was shocked when one of my known vadhyar in the National Capital Region (NCR) told me that 90% of marriages in last 3-4 years are intercaste.

This shows that the community is so broad minded that they are ready to renounce their culture & traditions! They are ready to marry any one!

Is there a shortrage of temples & south indian spiritual groups that has enjoined this?

Infact there are many South Indian Temples, Matts (including Sringeri, Kanchi) dotting Delhi. There are plethora of cultural festivals from Carnatic Music, Radha Krishna Kalyanam, Savitri Puranam, Sasta Preeti to Vishnu Sahasranama Group, Lalita Sahasranama group etc that conduct their programs regularly.

Delhi is a melting pot of all cultures! There are no anti Brahmin groups too!

Initially Tamil Brahmins settled in Karol Bagh, RK Puram, Munirka areas. Now there are dispersed across the National Capital region apart from Delhi from Gurugram to Ghaziabad & Faridabad ito Greater Noida.

I have stayed in multiple condominiums. The latest where I stay has 1100 families & just 4-5 Tamil Brahmin families. They hardly get together unlike the Bengalis or Punjabis. Diwali & Dusehra are celebrated together by all Hindus. Even in Navarthri Golu which is a unique festival & custom of Tamil Brahmins there is hardly any interest to celebrate together.

No wonder the community has lost its cultural moorings and ready to mix with any caste!

It is a shame that a community with a tradition & history of several thousand years have gone berserk in the 21st century! I was told that Mumbai is not far behind!

The community is dying & no body is interested in solving the problem!

We have discussed about intercaste & inter religious marriages in this group several times!

It means the community has not learnt any lesson and wants to give up its uniqueness & cultural identity and merge with the ocean! It is a civilizational collapse!

Om namo Narayanaya.
Subhamastu. Namaskarangal. I endorse the observations and remarks given above. As a Central Government officer (R&D Scientist), fortunately, I had travelled lengthy & breadth of India and a number of countries outside India. My observations and opinions (feelings at times) are that the Indians outside India, especially Brahmins (more to say other than Tamils: unfortunate), are much more united and try to follow our culture during festivals, atleast. I am sorry (should I feel bad???) to say that almost 3-4 in 10 Tamils (that too a few coming from a achara family affiliated to mutts) are not having even Poonal (holy thread), do not have a small photo of any God or Acharya in their residence, do not hesitate to eat food from a common plate (like Ms) with left as well as right hand, smoke same cigarette sharing with girls & other boys, drink liquor, eat non veg and worst is some (Brahmin boys) are co-living with foreign boy/s & girl/s (should I say in modern term: live-in relationship or situationship - as said in a recent Tamil movie). Their Tamil too has become of Ds. When I met one in an airport on way to India, they have a fresh sparkling white Poonal and even chandanam / vibuti (small one) and changed their language too. What it means? We have to think, as elders, especially when we wish to maintain or sustain our sadacharas (not meant to follow touch me not acharam), what is the cause and how to inculcate culture & values. Merely, taking birth in a Brahmin family (having boys and girls with living as cited above) and saying that I am of so & so clan or sect of Brahmin (expressing unsolicited superiority leading to animosity amongst Brahmins) and we don't want a girl or boy for marriage from another Brahmin sect, will suffice? Another major issue, of late, I am facing, as a practicing Vedic astrologer for a decade plus, is that the Brahmin parents are coming with horoscopes of boys & girls of non- Brahmins and to be more discrete, of chatutha varna, and wants if & buts and matching!!!! One can recollect that, for centuries, the varna mix is is in vogue and for argument in defence they may say that all are son's of Brahma only, etc. So, the present time visionaries of vedic dharma Sastras and those who wish to have selective breeding should cultivate the habit of following first the dharma-sastras and then inculcate the values of our Vedic culture (minus hatred towards any) to their progeny from child. In my opinion, expecting for a brahmin boy or girl in USA or foreign countries is not wrong but a few make it mandatory. To be a Brahmin means what??? Sorry, for my discrete expressions which may provoke a few hard liners, as pinpointer of dark-spots. My objective is not to throw slush on myself but a desire to change parents' desire, especially mothers of girls & boys, based on my experience as an astrologer. Am I wrong? If wrong, excuse me. If not, please think & rethink for the propagation of time and space tested, age-old Good sanskriti for the betterment of our progeny. Shubham bhuyat! Mangalam bhavatu! Regards. Jai Shri Ram V.Rajagopalan Iyengar

 

[Super1223]

Your query is misleading. Are you still implying Intercaste marriages of Tamil Brahmins or is it for all India?

Exact data on the boy-to-girl ratio specifically for marriage is not uniformly reported, but extrapolations based on population statistics and marriage customs suggest that for every 1,000 eligible males, there may be around 850–900 eligible females in certain regions, depending on demographic and cultural factors.

Efforts to balance this ratio involve promoting gender equality, addressing sex-selective practices, and ensuring equal opportunities for girls in education and employment.


General Sex Ratio: India has a sex ratio of approximately 940 females per 1,000 males (2011 Census).

Marriage Pool: The sex ratio in the marriageable age group (20–34 years) reflects a surplus of men compared to women.


The marriage ratio is skewed, with more men than women eligible for marriage.
Estimates suggest the ratio often ranges between 1,000 men to 850–900 women, particularly in regions with a strong preference for male children and imbalanced sex ratios at birth.

Factors Affecting Marriage Ratios
Cultural Norms:

Men are expected to marry younger women, widening the eligible age group for men.
Early marriages for women reduce the time they spend in the marriage market.
Regional Variations:

States like Haryana and Punjab, which historically have skewed sex ratios, experience a "marriage squeeze" where many men struggle to find brides.
In contrast, southern and northeastern states often have more balanced ratios.
Interstate and Cross-Cultural Marriages:

To address the shortage of women in some areas, men increasingly marry women from other states or communities.

In this environment, A docile Brahmin from Tamil Nadu may be squeezed out of marriage. And Tamil Girls may prefer a dashing northerner. Fortunately, my mom found me a TB girl, otherwise, I would still be single.

With the practice of early marriage and arranged marriage decreasing, TB boys are ill-prepared. The parents are responsible for not realizing this and failing to teach the boys who expect Girls to marry them and do not know how to woo girls. Sorry boys.

Yes, but i want to know how Common it is in north India, need someone from Delhi to explain the situation there

 

[prasad1]

The concept of caste system and religious discrimination are like a bane on the path of India's progress. For centuries Indian society has been divided on the basis of caste system and religion (Malhotra et al, 1977). The problem of caste system was so deep rooted that it took years for the Indians to come out of that idea. Even today also India is struggling to come out of this social menace. History reveals that efforts have been made by various social reformers and individuals whose name doesn't appear in the pages of history to make India free from the clutches of caste system, untouchability and race discrimination. And when we talk about Indian marriages, which are inter-caste and inter- religious, it seems like a taboo to most of the people. But in order to eradicate the caste system and race discrimination, it is important that there should be inter-caste and inter - religious marriages. Marriages are regarded as the most important social custom and the best means to remove the barrier of caste system. Today in Indian society though we can see inter-caste marriages but mostly it is part of the city culture and they constitute a minor proportion of the total marriages. The rural parts of the country is by and large dominated by the same caste marriage and still have a long way to go.

Kannan (1963) studied 149 inter-caste marriages in the city of Bombay. He found that inter-caste marriage is steadily increasing only recently and that has assumed a significant component since 1956. The age of the women at the time of her marriage, the freedom given to her to choose her partner, the range of female education are some of the important factors influencing the intercaste marriages in Bombay (Kannan, 1963). A study based on matrimonial advertisement data shows that, in a section of the families, the caste barrier is being changed and people come forward for inter-caste marriages. The friends and relatives in most cases play all foul means to stop such unions; but this tendency to oppose inter-caste marriages registered in West Bengal, have increased from 700 in 1955 to 5800 in 1969. Brahmins which are at the top of the caste hierarchy are most opposed to inter-cast marriages. Kayasthas, Baidyas and other Hindus are increasingly becoming more liberal towards inter-caste marriage. Also post graduates are most liberal for inter-caste marriage as compared to under graduates and graduates.

https://paa2010.populationassociation.org/papers/100801

 

[prasad1]

Inter-Caste Marriage Scheme: Bridging the Social Divide
Inter-caste marriages in India often challenge deeply ingrained societal norms and bring a breath of fresh air to traditional practices. Recognizing their transformative potential, the government introduced the Inter-Caste Marriage Scheme to promote unity, social equality, and financial support for such unions. Here’s everything you need to know about this revolutionary initiative.

What Is the Inter-Caste Marriage Scheme
The Inter-Caste Marriage Scheme is a government initiative aimed at encouraging marriages between individuals from different castes. By offering financial incentives, the scheme strives to diminish caste-based discrimination and foster social harmony. This policy stems from the belief that inter-caste marriages can play a pivotal role in creating an inclusive society.

Key Features of the Inter-Caste Marriage Scheme
Beneficiaries receive monetary support to aid their new journey together. Couples must include one partner from a Scheduled Caste (SC) background to qualify. Documents like marriage certificates, caste certificates, and identity proofs are mandatory. Applications can be submitted online or offline through designated portals or offices.

Impact on Indian Society
The Inter-Caste Marriage Scheme is a stepping stone towards an egalitarian society. It challenges the caste system, encourages mutual respect, and strengthens the fabric of unity. States like Tamil Nadu and Maharashtra have set benchmarks with their inter-caste marriage incentives. Globally, countries like Brazil have similar initiatives promoting racial and cultural unity. The Inter-Caste Marriage Scheme is not just a financial aid program; it’s a movement toward societal change. By embracing inter-caste unions, we pave the way for a more inclusive and harmonious India.

Inter Caste Marriage Scheme » Hslc.in » 2025

Inter-caste marriages in India often challenge deeply ingrained societal norms and bring a breath of fresh air to traditional practices. Recognizing their

hslc.in

The Government of India has schemes to increase intercaste marriages.

 

[prasad1]

India: people against inter-caste marriage by caste and religion | Statista

According to a survey conducted from November 2019 to March 2020, 64 percent of Hindu respondents were against women from their community to enter inter-caste marriages.

www.statista.com

 

[Super1223]

No one from Delhi, in this forum?

 

[praveen]

No one from Delhi, in this forum?

Most of them are passive readers only.

 

[prasad1]

Even if they are from Delhi, they may not be connected enough to gather this information. Secondly, it does not bother them.
I have very close friends and family in Delhi. Some are orthodox TB, they do not see this as a problem.

 

[prasad1]

 

[prasad1]

About Inter-Caste Marriage - Love Marriage - Court Marriage

When a couple decides to have an Arya Samaj wedding, they generally go through the wedding ceremony conducted by an Arya Samaj priest or officiant.

aryasamajmandir.org

 

[prasad1]

Love knows no boundaries. It transcends religion, caste, and culture, forming deep connections between individuals who find solace in each other’s company. However, when it comes to inter-caste love marriages, many couples face societal challenges, familial objections, and emotional turmoil. This is where the expertise of an inter-caste love marriage specialist in New Delhi can make a significant difference. If you’re searching for guidance, Islamic Astrologer Muhammad Ali is here to help you navigate the complexities of inter-caste relationships and turn your love story into a beautiful reality.

Inter-Caste Love Marriage Specialist in New Delhi - Islamic Astrologer India

Find expert guidance from the Inter-Caste Love Marriage Specialist in New Delhi. Transform your love life with insightful astrological solutions today!

islamicastrologerindia.com

 

[prasad1]

Inter-caste marriages occur between individuals from different castes within the same religion, while inter-religious marriages happen between individuals of different religions. While both types of unions break traditional societal norms, their dynamics differ. According to the National Family Health Survey, only 2.1% of marriages in India are inter-religious, while 10% are inter-caste. This shows a disparity in the acceptance and growth of these unions, with inter-caste marriages being relatively more common.

Reasons for the Increase in Inter-caste Marriages Between Castes with Socio-Economic Parity:

Urbanization and Education: Increasing urbanization and higher education have brought different castes together, especially those with similar economic backgrounds, leading to more inter-caste marriages.
Economic Independence: Financial independence, particularly among women, has led to a rise in marriages based on personal choice, rather than caste considerations.
Changing Social Norms: Over time, societal views on caste have become more flexible, especially among younger generations, allowing marriages within socio-economically similar castes.
Economic Parity as a Bridge: When two individuals from different castes share a similar socio-economic status, caste barriers often diminish, making marriage more acceptable.
Government Incentives: Government schemes promoting inter-caste marriages have contributed to an increase in such unions.
For instance: The Ambedkar Scheme for Social Integration through Inter-Caste Marriages offers financial incentives for inter-caste marriages.
Greater Exposure through Workplaces: The modern workplace brings individuals from different castes together, allowing people to form relationships based on shared professional interests.
For instance: Inter-caste marriages among IT professionals have increased due to the work environment.
Decline of Caste-based Occupations: The traditional link between caste and occupation has weakened, leading to greater social mobility and acceptance of inter-caste marriages among the economically similar castes.
For example: Agricultural communities that once adhered to strict caste lines now increasingly accept inter-caste marriages as economic roles diversify.
Reasons for Lower Prevalence of Inter-Religious Marriages:

Strong Religious Identities: Religious identity remains a strong cultural marker, and many families prioritise maintaining their religious traditions, discouraging inter-religious marriages.
Community Pressures: Social and family pressures often deter inter-religious marriages, as communities fear loss of religious traditions and identity.
Legal Complexities: Legal challenges around inter-religious marriages, including issues related to religious conversion, inheritance, and child rights, make such unions more difficult to navigate.
For instance: The Special Marriage Act, 1954 allows inter-religious marriages, but legal and social challenges still discourage many couples from pursuing this option.
Religious Laws and Conversion: Religious laws often require one partner to convert to the other’s religion before marriage, creating barriers to inter-religious unions.
Cultural Differences: Despite socio-economic parity, cultural practices between different religions—such as wedding rituals and family roles—often discourage marriages across religious lines.
Fear of Social Ostracism: Couples in inter-religious marriages often face the threat of social ostracism from their communities, which discourages many from considering such unions.
Government and Social Support Initiatives Promoting Inter-caste and Inter-religious Marriages

Ambedkar Scheme for Inter-Caste Marriages: This government initiative offers financial incentives to couples where one partner belongs to a Scheduled Caste and the other does not.
For example: Couples marrying under this scheme receive up to ₹2.5 lakh as a reward for promoting social integration.
Special Marriage Act, 1954: This law provides a legal framework for inter-religious and inter-caste marriages, offering couples protection from religious laws.
Social Awareness Campaigns: Various NGOs and social activists promote awareness and acceptance of inter-caste and inter-religious marriages through campaigns.
Safe Houses for Couples: State governments provide safe houses for couples who face violence or threats due to their choice to marry outside their caste or religion.
Promotion of Legal Literacy: Government and NGOs work to improve legal literacy among couples, ensuring they are aware of their rights under the Special Marriage Act 1954 and other protective laws.
For example: Legal awareness camps organized by Human Rights Law Network help couples understand their rights to marry freely.
While inter-caste marriages have increased, especially among castes with socio-economic parity, inter-religious marriages remain less common due to stronger religious and cultural barriers. By addressing these barriers through legal protections, awareness programs, and social support, India can further promote social harmony and inclusivity, creating a society where individuals can marry based on personal choice rather than societal expectations.

https://pwonlyias.com/pyq/intercaste-marriages-between-castes-which-have-socio-economic-parity-have-increased-to-some-extent-but-this-is-less-true-of-interreligious-marriages-discuss/

 

[prasad1]

Conclusion​

• Coming back to Ambedkar’s speech quoted above, he further suggested that to break the caste system, it was pertinent to destroy religious notions.
• The sanctity of the Shastras needs to be diluted on which caste was founded and not occasionally bring about “inter-caste dinner and inter-caste marriages, which were futile methods of achieving their ends”.
• What Ambedkar is arguing is not against inter-caste marriage, but he is inviting us to go deeper, beyond social sanctions. He wants us to be participants in movements that would upend and eventually change mindsets.

The Symbolism of Inter Caste Marriages : Daily Current Affairs

Welcome to Dhyeya IAS Best Coaching for UPSC, IAS,Civil Services, State PSC/PCS Exam

www.dhyeyaias.com

 

[XLR8R]

I can only guess. South is a lot more conservative than Delhi. Are you sure it is much higher in Delhi than in Mumbai? If so I am not sure why. Other members may help answer the question.

It appears like this thread needs a younger person to respond. So I fall into this category of the young TB male who is of marriageable age.

60% of TB I know who lives anywhere north of Karnataka/Telangana has gone into intercaste marriages. The other 30% have married other Brahmins (i.e. Kannada, Telugu, Marathi, Gujarati mainly). 10% only remain who actually married a TB, and even in those cases either the boy or the girl was from different states (i.e. Palakkad Iyer marrying a Madurai Iyer, Telugu Iyer marrying a Tamil Iyer, Kannada speaking Iyengar marrying a Tamil Iyengar, etc.)

For those who live north of the Vindhyas or anywhere north of Madhya Pradesh the situation has become very grim.

A) Firstly, Tamils themselves are a minority and not even enough to get counted in census in many places. This creates a pressure among the North Indian Tamils to just get married to any Tamil speaking person and not worry about caste.

B) Tamil Brahmins born and raised in North India are fundamentally different to those born and raised in South India. The differences in lifestyle, education, religious inclination and aspirations are enough to branch them off as two separate communities. However, Tamil Brahmins at the community level are yet to understand this and continue to think that North Indian Tamil Brahmins will retain their roots and return to South India some day.

C) Due to above two factors there is a huge problem: Tamil Brahmins of North India are NOT compatible in many ways with Tamil Brahmins of South India. Unfortunately they keep getting circulated in the same groups and made to interact with each other in rather forceful manner.

D) Due to half of the TB population living as 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation exiles in North India or abroad, those children are not well connected to their Tamil roots and past and prefer to live as a person of whatever state/region they grew up in. I.E. For a USA born TB, he/she identifies more as American than as Tamil or Indian after the 2nd generation, for a North India born person, he/she feels Tamil language is a useful but not essential feature and most of them learn about their Brahmin practices, rituals and traditions from local Brahmin community of North, West, East India etc.

The issue is grave enough to warrant official instruction from the Shankaracharya to be honest.

E) Telugu Brahmins are somewhat in the same situation but it is not as visible at this stage because Brahmin population is still higher among the Telugu community.

F) Tulu & Konkani Brahmins are at the stage where 50% of marriages are now intercaste, so they are actually doing worse than Tamil Brahmins.

As for why IC marriages are less for TBs in Mumbai vs. Delhi:

Mumbai has 13-14% south Indian population. Delhi has combined south Indian population of 2.5% (5% if you include Gujarati & Marathi).

This means that it is extremely difficult to find a Tamil as a friend, let alone as a life partner.

From the perspective of marriage search, most TBs that are educated and working/living in Delhi aspire to either go abroad or shift to a southern city. This means that TBs who are settled in Delhi cannot and will not marry this crowd as they wish to remain in Delhi + NCR.

In general for Brahmin community nation wide, there is an unfortunate phenomenon that boys are outside the home city for job/career/study, while girls are working in the home city (70% cases, but especially true for Delhi since families are concerned about safety). This is creating chaos of relocation uncertainty in the marriage market.

In Mumbai, there is still a decent chance to find a suitable match between the 13% south Indian population or the Marathi & Gujarati Brahmin communities whose culture and mentality matches the Tamil Brahmins.

So, Tamil Brahmins in North India are of two categories: a) Born and raised in South India but working in North, b) Born and raised in North India and working in North

for (a), they have to consider permanently settling in Delhi as the only option if they wish to marry a local person, which most are not willing to do. Also, they find it difficult to adjust long term to living in these northern cities. Matches living in south/central areas refuse to relocate even when there is opportunity citing some stupidity like bad weather, bad air, "I don't like Delhi", etc.

For (b), they simply find they are not compatible in mindset, religious practise or mentality with the TBs born in South India. They feel more at ease with the Marathi/Gujarati/Punjabi/MP etc. culture. They keep an open mind whom to marry and just go with the flow, we will see what happens and I will adjust to anything type.

This is a complicated issue that in my opinion should first be solved by bifurcation of the TB community into the North Indian Tamil Brahmins and the South Indian Tamil Brahmins. This is because matrimonial apps allow putting only one language as mother tongue and then group everybody belong to that caste and that mother tongue into one category. End result is that a person like me born in Maharashtra, no family in TN or even in South India, living entire life in Northern states and settling down in Delhi keeps getting matches from Shaadi dot com's "algorithm" that identifies me as Tamil Brahmin and sends me matches from Kurnool, Tirunelveli and other such places where my 70 year old father can hardly travel, meaning in practice even if I get beyond all cultural, lifestyle and other differences, actual marriage occurring will be a very slow process.

It's just way easier for me to accept one of three things: Either that I love Tamil so much I want to preserve it and I will settle for just about any I can see that speaks or at least understands Tamil (most in Delhi are not Brahmins), or I am Brahmin and that identity does not depend on my knowledge of Tamil and just search for some Brahmin of any state, and the third option - to just ignore both Tamil and Brahmin and go for whatever comes my way. This automatically means 2/3 marriages will be IC to begin with.

 

[XLR8R]

@sravna who would know about this, please add them in the discussion
My understanding is that Delhi is a very racist city and misogynist city back in the day as it's today and south Indians unfortunately suffered racism, also sex ratio in Delhi is skewed which drove demand for women, which unfortunately meant Women from South Indian communities (TB, malayalis etc), were in unfavorable position and preferred to do IC to escape conservate families as well as to be with a local strongman if you will for protection, thats my hypothesis at least

Delhi has some minor discrimination, but everyone who is not Punjabi/Haryanvi/Kashmiri faces it - and it is not any more than what happens in Bangalore or Chennai against non-locals. Anyway, that population is only 35% actually, so you can say rest 65% face racism, which is an oxymoron because a majority cannot face racism.

The reality: today hardly anyone in North Indian Brahmins has a lot of knowledge about Tamil, Telugu, Kannada Brahmins. No one has heard the word Namboothiri. There is a lot of doubt and lack of knowledge about the genuineness of Brahmin claims. It is hard to be a south Indian Brahmin and convince a local Brahmin of Delhi that you are genuine because most of them have not heard of any of our subsects.

This is because south Indian population is now down to 2.5% and declining further after IT boom in south India, meaning that knowledge about south Indian languages and culture in general is on the decline.

If you are south Indian Brahmin in Delhi or any place north of Maharashtra (and Gujarat), you have tough decisions to make (see my post above)....

 

[XLR8R]

The IC marriages happen of the second and 3rd generation who are settled in Delhi region. They are convent educated, hardly can read & write Tamil and jump to Hindi in a conversation. They may not have studied in Tamil schools. I am not aware of any sort of pressure being applied. Very recently a TB girl married a Gujjar(ST) boy with consent of parents. Boys choose any girl-can be a Punjabi or Bania or a Rajput or a Kayasth allmost all with consent of parents

Hard to be south Indian anywhere north of MP. The local news of Kannadigas attacking Hindi and Marathi migrants, the rhetoric of the Dravidian movement and the stupidity of certain political leaders in southern states has made it very difficult for anyone born and raised in Delhi to live like the quintessential Tamil, Telugu or Kannada person because people will raise a lot of difficult questions.

Recently a Bihar Brahmin who was a delivery boy identified me as a TB just by face and then proceeded to ask me questions like why did you all run and become scattered like ashes. We in Bihar faced bloody violence and we are still there. What can I answer?

If you are born and raised in Delhi and facing these awkward questions about Kannada gothilla and Tamil language imposition then you can imagine why kids might want to de-emphasize speaking Tamil/Kannada etc.

As for question of marriage, Gujjar is one of the dominant caste of Delhi NCR and also more numerous, wealthy and aggressive. Actually Jat + Gujjar girls usually marry outside the community and usually to Brahmin boys in Bengaluru (especially Tulu & Konkani), so their boys end up searching for Brahmin girls here.

But overall, whom to marry and how to marry has some special considerations (see my post above where I explained this in more detail).

 

[prasad1]

It appears like this thread needs a younger person to respond. So I fall into this category of the young TB male who is of marriageable age.

60% of TB I know who lives anywhere north of Karnataka/Telangana has gone into intercaste marriages. The other 30% have married other Brahmins (i.e. Kannada, Telugu, Marathi, Gujarati mainly). 10% only remain who actually married a TB, and even in those cases either the boy or the girl was from different states (i.e. Palakkad Iyer marrying a Madurai Iyer, Telugu Iyer marrying a Tamil Iyer, Kannada speaking Iyengar marrying a Tamil Iyengar, etc.)

For those who live north of the Vindhyas or anywhere north of Madhya Pradesh the situation has become very grim.

A) Firstly, Tamils themselves are a minority and not even enough to get counted in census in many places. This creates a pressure among the North Indian Tamils to just get married to any Tamil speaking person and not worry about caste.

B) Tamil Brahmins born and raised in North India are fundamentally different to those born and raised in South India. The differences in lifestyle, education, religious inclination and aspirations are enough to branch them off as two separate communities. However, Tamil Brahmins at the community level are yet to understand this and continue to think that North Indian Tamil Brahmins will retain their roots and return to South India some day.

C) Due to above two factors there is a huge problem: Tamil Brahmins of North India are NOT compatible in many ways with Tamil Brahmins of South India. Unfortunately they keep getting circulated in the same groups and made to interact with each other in rather forceful manner.

D) Due to half of the TB population living as 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation exiles in North India or abroad, those children are not well connected to their Tamil roots and past and prefer to live as a person of whatever state/region they grew up in. I.E. For a USA born TB, he/she identifies more as American than as Tamil or Indian after the 2nd generation, for a North India born person, he/she feels Tamil language is a useful but not essential feature and most of them learn about their Brahmin practices, rituals and traditions from local Brahmin community of North, West, East India etc.

The issue is grave enough to warrant official instruction from the Shankaracharya to be honest.

E) Telugu Brahmins are somewhat in the same situation but it is not as visible at this stage because Brahmin population is still higher among the Telugu community.

F) Tulu & Konkani Brahmins are at the stage where 50% of marriages are now intercaste, so they are actually doing worse than Tamil Brahmins.

As for why IC marriages are less for TBs in Mumbai vs. Delhi:

Mumbai has 13-14% south Indian population. Delhi has combined south Indian population of 2.5% (5% if you include Gujarati & Marathi).

This means that it is extremely difficult to find a Tamil as a friend, let alone as a life partner.

From the perspective of marriage search, most TBs that are educated and working/living in Delhi aspire to either go abroad or shift to a southern city. This means that TBs who are settled in Delhi cannot and will not marry this crowd as they wish to remain in Delhi + NCR.

In general for Brahmin community nation wide, there is an unfortunate phenomenon that boys are outside the home city for job/career/study, while girls are working in the home city (70% cases, but especially true for Delhi since families are concerned about safety). This is creating chaos of relocation uncertainty in the marriage market.

In Mumbai, there is still a decent chance to find a suitable match between the 13% south Indian population or the Marathi & Gujarati Brahmin communities whose culture and mentality matches the Tamil Brahmins.

So, Tamil Brahmins in North India are of two categories: a) Born and raised in South India but working in North, b) Born and raised in North India and working in North

for (a), they have to consider permanently settling in Delhi as the only option if they wish to marry a local person, which most are not willing to do. Also, they find it difficult to adjust long term to living in these northern cities. Matches living in south/central areas refuse to relocate even when there is opportunity citing some stupidity like bad weather, bad air, "I don't like Delhi", etc.

For (b), they simply find they are not compatible in mindset, religious practise or mentality with the TBs born in South India. They feel more at ease with the Marathi/Gujarati/Punjabi/MP etc. culture. They keep an open mind whom to marry and just go with the flow, we will see what happens and I will adjust to anything type.

This is a complicated issue that in my opinion should first be solved by bifurcation of the TB community into the North Indian Tamil Brahmins and the South Indian Tamil Brahmins. This is because matrimonial apps allow putting only one language as mother tongue and then group everybody belong to that caste and that mother tongue into one category. End result is that a person like me born in Maharashtra, no family in TN or even in South India, living entire life in Northern states and settling down in Delhi keeps getting matches from Shaadi dot com's "algorithm" that identifies me as Tamil Brahmin and sends me matches from Kurnool, Tirunelveli and other such places where my 70 year old father can hardly travel, meaning in practice even if I get beyond all cultural, lifestyle and other differences, actual marriage occurring will be a very slow process.

It's just way easier for me to accept one of three things: Either that I love Tamil so much I want to preserve it and I will settle for just about any I can see that speaks or at least understands Tamil (most in Delhi are not Brahmins), or I am Brahmin and that identity does not depend on my knowledge of Tamil and just search for some Brahmin of any state, and the third option - to just ignore both Tamil and Brahmin and go for whatever comes my way. This automatically means 2/3 marriages will be IC to begin with.

Wonderful post.