How much interest westerners have in Carnatic music?

[Raji Ram]

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... I have had enough discussions with Sangom Sir ........

Here:

First lesson in carnatic music

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Both Hindustani and Carnatic music are Raga based. Ragas represent different emotions, moods. They are also classified as Morning, Afternoon and Evening ragas. Then there are ragas which are also associated with specific action. Like Amrithavarshini for rain.

Many of the ragas are common to both systems of music.

As I said earlier Hindustani music emphasizes Raga whereas Carnatic music does not.

This is the basic difference and not the rasa part of it. To say Hindustani Music is all Shringara Rasam and all Carnatic music is Bhakthi Rasam is wrong. The fact is that Shringara Rasam has been eliminated from Carnatic music.

I am giving below a song from Sampoorna Ramayanam which is illustrative of ragas.

This scene also illustrates the Tamilian conception of Ravana.
[video=youtube;7AppYkc5vL0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AppYkc5vL0[/video]

 

[Jambavan]

Follow these previous 'successes' to popular Carnatic music as "universal" too

Follow these previous 'successes' to popular Carnatic music as "universal" too

Ofcourse, modern Carnatic is synonymous with hindu religiosity. This due to I think, the trimurthis, and those who followed them, took on the same theme. Bharathiar has some exceptions, but even his songs sung to Carnatic tunes are religious in nature, like nenjukku needhi et al.

I read somewhere, that Hindustani music was originally religious hindu type. But with the Mughal and muslim conquest, the ragas and songs were re written to secular themes, and ragas renamed like morning, evening ragas and such. I don’t have any verification for this, but is believable. As this would have provided a career to the new muslim kings, keen on adopting indian culture, without the added baggage of religion, of which they believed they had the right path.

If this indeed was done, I can envisage, the same being done to Carnatic music. All we need is some classy music composers and poets, in tandem, to produce love ragas to adi talam and anu pallavi

eh!!!

Brilliant idea!

Don’t forget to follow the usual procedure:
First secularise carnatic as non-Hindu, and general "all-Indian", then internationalise it as "global", so that then evangelising religions will claim carnatic music therefore belongs equally to them (even as these religions replace Hindu religion).

The same winning formula has happened to yoga, after all, so success is guaranteed: Huffington Post had a brilliant poll where people could *vote* whether yoga was Hindu or global, so that Hindus should not claim it belongs to their religion.

huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/15/change-my-mind-yoga-is-a-hindu-practice_n_1346129.html

And Wendy Doniger, that famous Hindu baiter and self-declared "expert" on Hinduism (she’s the one who force-reads sexual perversions into simple narratives about Hindu Gods), has declared that yoga is "equally christian" and european, including in origin. Similarly, the anti-Hindu Meera Nanda (working for the American, religiously-Christian organisation "Templeton Foundation" which is pointedly anti-Hindu), has employed her usual misinformation techniques to declare that yoga isn’t Hindu either.

And let's not forget the pathbreaking work done to secularise and christianise bharatanatyam, in finding an example to emulate in selling of carnatic music next. Documentation can be found at:
christianizingbharatanatyam.blogspot.com
which starts with the line: Colonized "Hindus" Christianizing Bharatanatyam

This is sort of what people here want to do with Carnatic music (which, as admitted even here, was and remains Hindu in origin and purpose).

In fact, people here would no doubt be happy to read about
christianizingbharatanatyam.blogspot.com/2011/09/carnatic-singer-glorifying-christian.html
"Carnatic Singer becomes victim of Inculturation"

And there are already numerous catholic ashrams in India that use inculturation: where they use Hindu symbols, dresses, names and marks like veeboothi, jesus sahasranamam, deepam, aarti, whose sole aim (as admitted by them) is to convert Indian sheep to whom such Hindu things appeal to.
(Refer to the book "Catholic ashrams: adopting and adapting Hindu dharma" also known as "Catholic Ashrams - Sannyasins or Swindlers" by S.R. Goel, which is available on-line at googlebooks and voiceofdharma.org/books/ca/index.htm.)


If you’ve never heard of the word, you might want to look up what inculturation has been doing in the Hindu context.
The process of "inculturation" involves forcible separation of Hindu religion from its expression and religious practices (such as carnatic music, bharatanatyam, yoga, even vedic recitation). The former is called religion, while the latter is first called mere (Indian) "culture", hence "not religion", in order to separate it from the Hindu religion it intrinsically belongs to, before declaring this "culture" as being "universal" and in fact "equally christian". That’s why the New Indian Bible has direct quotes from the Vedas and Upanishads and other sacred Hindu scriptures, but chooses to refer to these quotations as being taken from as unspecified, anonymous "Indian scriptures". Since Indian can nowadays mean ‘christian’ also, therefore these quotations "belong equally to christianism".
Everything that is Hindu belongs to everyone, after all, according to ‘Hindus’ ready to sell Hindu religion off.

So by all means, NRI "tamil brahmins" here and everywhere should facilitate the process of inculturation, including for carnatic music. As long as you don’t thereafter begin to whine, as the NRI Hindus who sold Yoga did upon seeing the Huffington Post yoga poll, when foreigners and converted sheep next declare that carnatic music is actually (equally) christian, the way that catholic Leela Sampson of Kalakshetra declared that bharatanatyam is not particularly Hindu and brainwashes her dance instructors to teach students that it’s all equally christian (from a concocted "christian" tamizh sangham era which never existed), despite bharatanatyam having its origins in the Hindu Gods and Hindu temples.

I kept wondering what the character was of the sorts of ‘Hindus’ who went and sold (invariably new-age) Yoga to everybody and everything. Now I know. Fortunately, they got what was coming to them: many new-age people voted that yoga wasn’t Hindu (and hence was equally christian/islamic/new age and what have you). The same will happen to those who sell carnatic music. Just so you know what to look forward to by secularising innately Hindu religious practises like Bharatanatyam and Carnatic music (they’re not secular: carnatic music derives from the Sama vedam and Bharatanatyam derives from Yoga). If you want to export secular Indian "culture", you have bollywood or tollyhood culture or whatever Tamil cinema is called these days.

Also, why does Todd McComb’s carnatic site get lauded as if it’s his achievement? His contribution is merely setting up a website where he’s plagiarised the contents of south Indian carnatic books written by *Hindus*. It’s called violating copyright. If Hindus knew that was allowed, they’d have set up many carnatic sites containing these materials too (and before Todd McComb did so), which is what has been happening since. Todd McComb did not contribute anything: it’s the Hindus who wrote those books which he stole his web contents from that deserve the credit of painstaking collection, transliteration and translation.

Hey, you can give carnatic music to western people just like they have commandeered Sanskrit studies. E.g. Sydney Pollock is a self-declared expert at "sanskrit" in a prestigious western university, and he has recently declared Hindus are "nazis". Sort of like how Wendy Doniger, who’s been busy claiming yoga as christian and european, has regularly declared that Hindus are fundamentalists. And the syrian catholic Leela Samson has nothing but ire for Hindus too even as she has commandeered Hindus’ bharatanatyam.

Notice the pattern? No? Then you must certainly repeat the same for carnatic music, and shortly you will see that the trend that created Indian "christu-natyam" and western "praise moves" (christian yoga, oxymoron) will be repeated as "christucarnatic" too. Success!

I read somewhere, that Hindustani music was originally religious hindu type. But with the Mughal and muslim conquest, the ragas and songs were re written to secular themes, and ragas renamed like morning, evening ragas and such. I don’t have any verification for this, but is believable. As this would have provided a career to the new muslim kings, keen on adopting indian culture, without the added baggage of religion, of which they believed they had the right path.

I don't know the Arabic word, but christianism officially calls it inculturation: Stealing other people's religion under the guise of culture, because they have none of their own. It's part of the larger process called Replacement Theology: where they take heathens' "culture" and identity and religious practices, even as they convert-and-kill the heathens (Replacing them).

The amnesiac and brainwashed in colonised populations euphemistically call this process "syncretic" religion, but only as long as the victims still exist in any number. Eventually, when Hindus go the way of the ancient Greeks and Romans (the timeline as documented by Greeks is here: ysee.gr/index-eng.php?type=english&f=lovestories), it will just be called islam or christianism. That’s why many Greek and Roman festivals and religious practises are today suddenly dubbed "christian". E.g. Lupercalia on 15 February was the Roman festival of love where Roman husbands sent flowers and sweetmeats to their wives and Roman lovers send anonymous love letters to those they were interested in. Then the church consciously replaced it with "St Valentine" on the very day before that, although of course, this St Valentine never existed, as is well documented, but was made up for the very purpose of replacement.

 

[sangom]

Joining late! I have had enough discussions with Sangom Sir and he sticks to his views as usual. Even singing film songs needs

'sruthi suddham'. That is why only a few singers reach to the top. Carnatic music is divine and can be presented in several ways.

That is, in a way which only the elite will understand and appreciate; in a way which even those with ears for good tunes will

enjoy; in a way for those who appreciate the lyrics and so on. It is not necessary to know the 'simhanandhana thALa pallavi' to

be efficient in carnatic music!

Some kids living abroad are very talented and I can give one example Kumari. Pragathi Guruprasad from the U S of A.

Without a good basement in carnatic training, such a song could not be handled by this little girl!

Super Singer Junior 3

Smt. Raji Ram,

It may be good to hold very high opinion about Carnatic Music (CM), but if anyone really and dispassionately studies the so-called CM theory (Take Prof. Sambamoorthy's 'six-pack' volume, which is easy) it will be found that CM is afflicted by unwanted and unnecessary theorizing. The historical fact that CM was mostly a private preserve of Tabras for the last few centuries and more so, during the 20th. century Madras, may probably be the reason for this state of affairs.

Since you are an expert in CM, you may be knowing that the pallavi of "apparama bhakti ento" in Panthuvaraali can also be composed in the svaras of Shankarabharanam by computer software. This means that a musician singing this pallavi may be using the svaras of Shankarabharanam involuntarily instead of Purvikalyani. Similarly Prof. Sambamoorthy himself admits that "In practice it will be found that in many ragas, the frequency of a particular note becomes sharpened by a sruti during the upward trend and gets diminished by a sruti during the downward trend. If the view of Subbarama Dikshitar is to be accepted, many of our janya ragas have to be dubbed as bhāṣānga ragas."

I hope you, with your profound knowledge of CM will therefore understand as to how much unnecessary baggage has been created for music students by Mudduvenkatamakhi & co. May be this serves for a paper in M. Phil or M.A. exams., but it creates sub-standard musicians as compared to Hindustani Music, imho.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Sangom Sir,

A performing artist of C M is very much different from those who have deep knowledge of theory! How many of our leading artists can

handle 'simhanandhana thALa pallavi'? I have found that many leading artists of the past also did NOT stick well to the sruthi and that

is one of the reasons why Sri. Madurai Mani Iyer was held in a great height, in spite of his pronunciation! I don't say that the knowledge

of theory alone is sufficient to make a good performing artist. They should have a good 'ear' to stick to the correct sruthi. I noticed that

one artist of 'first row' whose sruthi was 'satRE vilagi irum piLLAy', thoughout the concert (in our sabha - I wrote about it in 'eNNa alaigaL')

I have come across a few 'A grade' artists of the A I R, who do not know what a vivAdhi swaram is!

So, theory is for knowledge and practice is for success. The knowledge in theory is NOT tested while selecting artists for A I R

/ Television. But that does not mean that we need NO theory at all!

 

[Raji Ram]

Enjoy this song by Sri. John Higgins.

Govardana Giridhari - Darbari Kanada

 

[sarang]

Like our sanatana dharma. Excellent theory - vedas, upaniishads . . . and user friendly practicals - dharmasastras, agamas, stotras, seyyul, aradana . . .

So, theory is for knowledge and practice is for success. The knowledge in theory is NOT tested while selecting artists for A I R / Television. But that does not mean that we need NO theory at all!

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom Sir,

A performing artist of C M is very much different from those who have deep knowledge of theory! How many of our leading artists can

handle 'simhanandhana thALa pallavi'? I have found that many leading artists of the past also did NOT stick well to the sruthi and that

is one of the reasons why Sri. Madurai Mani Iyer was held in a great height, in spite of his pronunciation! I don't say that the knowledge

of theory alone is sufficient to make a good performing artist. They should have a good 'ear' to stick to the correct sruthi. I noticed that

one artist of 'first row' whose sruthi was 'satRE vilagi irum piLLAy', thoughout the concert (in our sabha - I wrote about it in 'eNNa alaigaL')

I have come across a few 'A grade' artists of the A I R, who do not know what a vivAdhi swaram is!

So, theory is for knowledge and practice is for success. The knowledge in theory is NOT tested while selecting artists for A I R

/ Television. But that does not mean that we need NO theory at all!

Smt. Raji ram,

You seem to have a sort of fixation on simhanandana thala. Once again, I have to reiterate that the tala scheme of CM has been unnecessarily complicated and that is one reason why many of the complicated talas have nearly gone out of practice. Yet the "lion cub" does not seem to be altogether extinct as may be seen from the undernoted blog:

Simhanandana


It may be seen that this simhanandana can be obtained by 16 aavartas of aaditala, or measuring time with Chanchatputa, Rati, Darpana, Kokilapriya, Abhanga and Mudrika talas, taken in the same order (as per the above blog). After all tala is for time-keeping and it is just approximate; as long as the listener does not experience any "neraDal" the tala interval can jolly well extend or shorten a bit. That was why one musician known to me said once that no CM artist, including instrument artistes, will be able to perform according to electronic beats. Then the electronic beat will go its way and the artist's flaws will be highlighted and underlined.

In CM the basic premise that music is to please the listener is not given sufficient importance; theory comes in every now and then. Your statement that The knowledge in theory is NOT tested while selecting artists for A I R / Television itself is testimony to my view that the theory portion of CM is in effect, unnecessary baggage. Where CM loses is in pleasing voice culture and mellifluous gamakams and kampithams. What is happening now is that musicians instrument-players are "manufactured" by the hundreds, if not by the thousands and there is absolutely no attention being paid to "zero defect" concept in these mass-produced artistes. Tution masters (I know you are one) cannot reject many unsuitable candidates if they come with recommendations. After all such degradations, it looks funny to me to hear eulogization of CM. That's all.

Note: I note that your response is silent on the main points in my post. (e.g., apparama bhakti, Subbarama Dikshitar's views on svaras and bhashanga, etc.). I presume that you have no answers.

 

[kkumar29]

Smt. Raji Ram,

It may be good to hold very high opinion about Carnatic Music (CM), but if anyone really and dispassionately studies the so-called CM theory (Take Prof. Sambamoorthy's 'six-pack' volume, which is easy) it will be found that CM is afflicted by unwanted and unnecessary theorizing. The historical fact that CM was mostly a private preserve of Tabras for the last few centuries and more so, during the 20th. century Madras, may probably be the reason for this state of affairs.

Since you are an expert in CM, you may be knowing that the pallavi of "apparama bhakti ento" in Panthuvaraali can also be composed in the svaras of Shankarabharanam by computer software. This means that a musician singing this pallavi may be using the svaras of Shankarabharanam involuntarily instead of Purvikalyani. Similarly Prof. Sambamoorthy himself admits that "In practice it will be found that in many ragas, the frequency of a particular note becomes sharpened by a sruti during the upward trend and gets diminished by a sruti during the downward trend. If the view of Subbarama Dikshitar is to be accepted, many of our janya ragas have to be dubbed as bhāṣānga ragas."

I hope you, with your profound knowledge of CM will therefore understand as to how much unnecessary baggage has been created for music students by Mudduvenkatamakhi & co. May be this serves for a paper in M. Phil or M.A. exams., but it creates sub-standard musicians as compared to Hindustani Music, imho.

Dear Sangom Sir,

I agree with you to some extent on what you say in the first paragraph. In CM we have artificially created swaras (eg. shatsruthi rishabam - sadarana gandharam etc) so the melakartha scheme can be created. We have also restricted ourselves from creating ragas with both "ma"s barring a few exceptions. It is true that it was mainly restricted to the Tabras. However that does not make CM inferior to HM in any way. HM music is based on singing perfect notes with the occasional slides in between. CM on the other hand thrives on the use of gamakams that gives it a larger scope. Just because theoretically you could use the notes of Sankarabaranam instead of panthuvarali, does not make that rendition a sankarabaranam rendition. If you listen to a CM rendition of Sankarabaranam and HM rendition of Bilawal you will find a huge difference, though both contain the same notes. In fact if you listen to any western composition based on the C Major scale you will see that it contains the same notes. A person trained in CM can sing all three versions however those who are trained in other systems might find singing sankarabaranam in CM style very difficult. It is just the systems are different and one is not necessarilty superior or inferior. Dikshithar has composed his nottu swarams, based on Sankarabaranam, and when you listen to them being played on a piano they sound like western music based on C-major.

As I had mentioned earlier music is music and you tend to identify with what you have been exposed to most.

Obviously you are entitled to your opinions but not facts (as John McCain would say)!

Cheers,
K. Kumar

 

[Raji Ram]

.............
Note: I note that your response is silent on the main points in my post. (e.g., apparama bhakti, Subbarama Dikshitar's views on svaras and bhashanga, etc.). I presume that you have no answers.

Dear Sangom Sir,

AparAma bhakthi in PanthuvarALi needs no computer software to change to ShankarAbharaNam or any other sampoorNa rAgam

as KalyANi, HarikAmboji, Thodi, Natabairavi, ChalanAttai and so on............. We have to just change the swarams and sing / play!

I would like to share my experience while teaching a student. The 'dasAvathAram' in GeethagOvindham is set in eleven rAgams.

Here it is:

Jayadeva's astapathi - By M S S

The student was so confused that she could sing any stanza in any rAgam and I had to give the starting notation for each stanza!

For the second point... Sri. Subbarama Dikshitar is a great musician and I can't comment anything! :tape:

 

[Raji Ram]

Once, I asked another student to sing 'GurulEka etuvanti' set to GowrimanOhari rAgam. She coolly sang it in 'KeeravANi'

since only the dhaivatham is different. I waited till she finished, enjoying the new tune! :couch2:

 

[Raji Ram]

I am amazed at this youngster's talent! Enjoy how he shows the difference between the handling of a song in

North Indian and South Indian styles of music. :thumb:

Abhishek Raghuram - Bhavani dayAni - Bhairavi (sindu bhairavi)

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom Sir,

AparAma bhakthi in PanthuvarALi needs no computer software to change to ShankarAbharaNam or any other sampoorNa rAgam

as KalyANi, HarikAmboji, Thodi, Natabairavi, ChalanAttai and so on............. We have to just change the swarams and sing / play!

I would like to share my experience while teaching a student. The 'dasAvathAram' in GeethagOvindham is set in eleven rAgams.

Here it is:

Jayadeva's astapathi - By M S S

The student was so confused that she could sing any stanza in any rAgam and I had to give the starting notation for each stanza!

For the second point... Sri. Subbarama Dikshitar is a great musician and I can't comment anything! :tape:

Smt. Raji,

Perhaps I did not explain the matter clearly. Kindly read —

http://www.musicresearch.in/download.php?id=65&artname=article_65.zip

This site contains a lot of material on music, in case you are already not aware.

Subbarama Dikshitar in his Sangita Sampradaya Pradarsini states that even in those ragas where only a neighbouring sruti is touched, are styled bhashanga ragas. Hence ragas like Saveri, Begada etc., - the way these are rendered now - will also be bhashanga ragas according to SSP. This was the point mentioned in Sambamoorthy's book. To me this, once again, reveals the disjoint between theory and practice of CM.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom Sir,

I agree with you to some extent on what you say in the first paragraph. In CM we have artificially created swaras (eg. shatsruthi rishabam - sadarana gandharam etc) so the melakartha scheme can be created. We have also restricted ourselves from creating ragas with both "ma"s barring a few exceptions. It is true that it was mainly restricted to the Tabras. However that does not make CM inferior to HM in any way. HM music is based on singing perfect notes with the occasional slides in between. CM on the other hand thrives on the use of gamakams that gives it a larger scope. Just because theoretically you could use the notes of Sankarabaranam instead of panthuvarali, does not make that rendition a sankarabaranam rendition. If you listen to a CM rendition of Sankarabaranam and HM rendition of Bilawal you will find a huge difference, though both contain the same notes. In fact if you listen to any western composition based on the C Major scale you will see that it contains the same notes. A person trained in CM can sing all three versions however those who are trained in other systems might find singing sankarabaranam in CM style very difficult. It is just the systems are different and one is not necessarilty superior or inferior. Dikshithar has composed his nottu swarams, based on Sankarabaranam, and when you listen to them being played on a piano they sound like western music based on C-major.

As I had mentioned earlier music is music and you tend to identify with what you have been exposed to most.

Obviously you are entitled to your opinions but not facts (as John McCain would say)!

Cheers,
K. Kumar

I feel CM is in a way inferior to HM because there is hardly any voice culture in CM. You might have seen the series on Melakarthas in Podhigai TV a few years back. Some of the stalwarts who were presented in the program fought shy of rendering the svaras (including the vivadis) and had broought one veena artiste to demonstrate this. This pitiable level of rendition is juxtaposed with formidable "theory" just as we say பூச்சாண்டி காட்டறது and an attempt is being made to impress the lay people as if CM is something grand while it is, at best, grandiose.

 

[renuka]

Dear RR ji,

I remember reading once that there is one Raaga that can attract snakes? Is that true?

 

[Raji Ram]

......... Kindly read — http://www.musicresearch.in/download.php?id=65&artname=article_65.zip.........

Dear Sangom Sir,

Thank you for the link. I have read theory only for my technical exams when I was 11 years old!

After the demise of my Guru Dr. S. Ramanathan, I learn the new songs only from youtube. Since, I can

write the notations easily, I can learn easily. By teaching the songs to my students, I learn thoroughly!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear RR ji,

I remember reading once that there is one Raaga that can attract snakes? Is that true?

Dear Renu,

The rAgam is PunnAgavarALi (புன்னாகவராளி)

natharmudi mel irikkum nalla paambe - Thiruvarutchelvar

 

[renuka]

Dear RR ji,

One more question...I remember reading some story before that Tansen had sung in some Raaga that caused body heat and surrounding heat to increase and he was sick and could only be cured if he heard or sang in a Raaga that could reduce the heat( a cooling raaga)

Only 2 sisters knew this Raaga but very reluctant to sing this raaga for another man since they were married.

I can't remember the story fully but the story goes that the sisters were forced to sing the Raaga in the royal court and after they sang it Tansen was cured but the sisters committed suicide the next day cos they felt it was a dishonor for them to sing in the court.

Is this true and if it is true..what is the Raaga that induces bodily/surrounding heat and what is the Raaga that cools the system down/surroundings??

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

I could get this story by Google search!

Tansen was said to have performed miracles with his ragas. He painted pictures, brought rains, lighted fire with his singing.

One of the stories about him goes that while watching birds in the jungle, he noticed that by the whistling of birds in the dusk,

twigs caught fire. Tansen then experimented with ragas and formulated the raga Deepak. This raga when sung caused fire in

the area of performance. During this time Akbar was the Emperor and his rivals forced Tansen to sing the raga so that every

thing gets burnt. But Tansen asked for some time and in the mean while he taught a lady the raga to bring rains. This was raga

Megha Malhar.



On the fixed day when Tansen was performing every thing got heated up. the lamps started glowing but nothing caught fire.

This was because the lady was singing Megha Malhar which brought rains to douse off the fire. Such was the magic of Tansen

who could alter the course of nature with his ragas. India has produced masters like Tansen.

 

[Raji Ram]

The carnatic music trinities too have done wonders by their music. :thumb:

The the closed screens at Tirupathi opened, when Saint Thayagaraja sang the song 'thera theeyaga rAdhA?'

Heavy rains lashed in Ettaiyapuram, which had dried up completely, when Muthuswami Dheekshithar sang

'AnandhAmrutha karshiNi' in the rAgam 'amrithavarshiNi'.

The song 'DEvi brOva samayamidhE' in the rAgam 'chinthAmaNi' by Shyama sasthri, humbled a proud musician! :hail:

 

[kkumar29]

I feel CM is in a way inferior to HM because there is hardly any voice culture in CM. You might have seen the series on Melakarthas in Podhigai TV a few years back. Some of the stalwarts who were presented in the program fought shy of rendering the svaras (including the vivadis) and had broought one veena artiste to demonstrate this. This pitiable level of rendition is juxtaposed with formidable "theory" just as we say பூச்சாண்டி காட்டறது and an attempt is being made to impress the lay people as if CM is something grand while it is, at best, grandiose.

Whether a particular system is inferior/superior depends on the criteria you use to rate them. I live in the US. I have a friend who is a qualified pianist and a violinist and is trained in Western Classical music. Plays in the various orchestras. Once I took him to a HM concert. He was fidgeting through out the concert and I asked him why. He said he didn't enjoy the music because with the drone he was only hearing the discordant notes. He was completely used to playing chords and was exposed only to harmony. So should we take his word and say all Indian music is inferior?

Different strokes for different folks. If you think HM is superior to CM, then so be it. I will still continue to enjoy CM, HM and WM with all their limitations because to me music is music and I don't judge as to which one is superior.

Cheers,
K. Kumar

 

[Raji Ram]

I feel CM is in a way inferior to HM because there is hardly any voice culture in CM. You might have seen the series on Melakarthas in Podhigai TV a few years back. Some of the stalwarts who were presented in the program fought shy of rendering the svaras (including the vivadis) and had broought one veena artiste to demonstrate this. This pitiable level of rendition is juxtaposed with formidable "theory" just as we say பூச்சாண்டி காட்டறது and an attempt is being made to impress the lay people as if CM is something grand while it is, at best, grandiose.

Dear Sangom Sir,

I do not know why you are so much against the vivAdhi rAgams. பாடறவா பாடினாக் கேட்க சுகமாக இருக்கும்! Theory is only

for learning and practice is for successful stage singing. If we talk the 'butler English' (that is how it is generally noted) then too

people understand. That does not mean that 'that' is enough for us. Learning of theory makes a better artist IMHO.


P.S: Enjoying music depends on our taste. Even with the voice culture of H M artists, I can NOT stand their fast music for

more than five minutes!!

An example is here:

Pt. Bhimsen Joshi - Raag Gorakh Kalyan 3/3

 

[Raji Ram]

Koteeswara Iyer has composed songs in all the 72 mELa rAgams.

Here is the beautiful song in RasikapriyA:

Arul Seiya Vendum Ayya - Rasikapriya - Koteeswara Iyer

 

[Raji Ram]

:focus: Many Westerners have an ear for Carnatic music. We find many of them listening to the concerts especially the thematic ones

held by Jaya TV, during December. Each teacher has a few students from the West. Those students love to wear Indian dresses too!

This story is a few decades old.My Guru's daughter was teaching Veena to an American student who was originally a drums player,

liked him and married him. She is none other than Smt. Geetha Bennett!

 

[SANDHYAV]

CM, WM, HM that would be my order of prefernce. I dont respect HM for it doesnt respect taal most of the time and is a bit dragging to be honest. the swara pronounciation in HM is bizare according to me. would rather sit with Yani or royal philharmonic orchestra than look at distorted mouths of HM singers.
Personal preference!