How Punishment or reward for one's action in previous birth help to reform a soul?

[C RAVI]

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Every one's "manasakshi" is same, that can show one how wrong or right one is, perfectly without any bias.

The only thing that differs is how each human tend to justify onself/one's conscience/"manasakshi" that can keep onself very much convienced with what one has thought of and has acted upon.

The "Ego/"I" of a human is potent enough to justify anything. No matter how informative, educated, desciplined, moral, matured a person is, he/she ends up with justifying and conviencing one's conscience, to suite onself well.

If a person wish, he/she can well destinguish what and how things are lacking between his/her conscience and his/her justifications influenced by his/her "Ego/I", while dealing with fellow humans.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Sri. Sangom, Greetings.

I refer to your message in post #19.
Are you suggesting consumption of alcohol and non-vegetarian food as 'sinful acts'? There would be a degree of 'uneasiness' when we do anything for the first time. I felt 'uneasy' when I first wore my pair of trousers. I don't know about 'intimately mixing with many girls though because I don't know where 'intimacy' starts. I did have few friends in the opposite gender.

When you say
It sounds as if the above mentioned simple deeds are deemed as 'sinful acts'. Would my 'manasaakshi' keep record everytime I enjoyed a drink of JD? everytime I visited an 'erotic site'? If God reads those records and 'charge me' for that, possibly I may ask God to 'grow up'.

If there is God, God wouldn't give a hoot about anyone's act. My own daughter gives me the 'slip' and goes for partying with her friends... I can only smile about her naughty activities. As of now I haven't become angry with her. I am just a JD drinking simpleton.... even I can alow so much freedom for someone to enjoy themselves, how much God should be allowing? Charge sheets, punishments... bit too much!

Cheers!

A person can do anything and go to any extent as long as he/she keeps himself happy in the way he/she wishes to and can extend the same and impact the others in the same manner with only those who are equally sharing the same fantasy.

On the above, GOD has nothing to do with punishing the person and his/her team, indulging in something among themselves. BUT, the repercussions of their act as a reaction would for sure surface some day or other, in some way or the other, for which they would be responsible on their own.


Once this group starts forcefully influencing the others for their own craziness and in this attempt mislead some one to take him/her in their fold, here is where their Manasakshi can tell this crazy team where and how they are wrong. When they don't bother to listen to their Manasakshi, overrule their manasakshi and do something wrong to the others, there comes the Punishment methodologies by the Almighty.


God never needs to Grow UP. It's only Humans who need to Grow Up.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sri. Sangom, Greetings.

I refer to your message in post #19.
Are you suggesting consumption of alcohol and non-vegetarian food as 'sinful acts'? There would be a degree of 'uneasiness' when we do anything for the first time. I felt 'uneasy' when I first wore my pair of trousers. I don't know about 'intimately mixing with many girls though because I don't know where 'intimacy' starts. I did have few friends in the opposite gender.

Dear Shri Raghy,

If you read my post once again, you will find that I have not said anything about "sinful acts" but was only touching upon what our "manassaakshi" does when you start doing something which had been prohibited till then. Your feeling 'uneasy' when you first wore your pair of trousers is a good example too. But you are right that I was lamenting on the change in values that is progressively coming over the younger generations of people in India, because I feel this trend will ultimately obliterate all that we can talk of as Indian values or Indian culture.

When you say ...

It sounds as if the above mentioned simple deeds are deemed as 'sinful acts'. Would my 'manasaakshi' keep record everytime I enjoyed a drink of JD? everytime I visited an 'erotic site'? If God reads those records and 'charge me' for that, possibly I may ask God to 'grow up'.

If there is God, God wouldn't give a hoot about anyone's act. My own daughter gives me the 'slip' and goes for partying with her friends... I can only smile about her naughty activities. As of now I haven't become angry with her. I am just a JD drinking simple person.... even I can alow so much freedom for someone to enjoy themselves, how much God should be allowing? Charge sheets, punishments... bit too much!

Cheers!

Surely your manassaakshi will keep an accurate record of each drink you have, but it will not at all be visible to you during this life. That is one of the mysteries of life. But some people during their very last days, when dementia and other brain-degenerative conditions make their memory extremely unreliable, tend to recount some of their actions and experiences, thoughts, etc., with great clarity. I feel this is the manassaakshi taking over their brain control in lucid intervals, so to say. (You may know this better because of your interactions with patients.)

I feel you are obsessed with the idea of GOD as per the Abrahamic religions. Hinduism and more importantly, advaita does not believe in such god or gods. As for me, I firmly believe that there is no God other than கடவுள் or the thing that manifests as Life within us. None of these Gods has the duty of looking into anyone's act/s. It is a self-sustaining, self-operating system — this universe and our lives and everything else that we see around us.

That said, I don't think we can venture into conclusions by comparing God to ourselves or vice versa; you may be very lenient towards your daughter when she gives you the "slip" and goes partying, but will you be equally lenient towards another girl, say, who works in your house? And on what basis or scriptural authority can we say that we are all sons/daughters of god?

Again, you seem to have a fixation that Karma is something like crime & punishment. IMHO, this is farthest from the Truth. Even the Bhagavadgeetha refers only to "phala" of Karma (mā phaleṣu kadācana). Now suppose someone throws a stone on to a mango tree (with the hope of a ripe mango falling down, of course). A mango, or some mango leaves or even some dry twigs, or nothing may fall to the ground, but the one sure "phala" of this Karma is normally that the stone has to fall down to earth. We today know that this is due to earth's gravity, etc., and so we will not call for some God who is catching that stone and throwing it back at the thrower.

It is very similar with any Karma. Taking the JD example which you cite, I believe that the liking for JD will survive even after your physical body perishes and in the next birth come latent and expand to its full bloom if circumstances are convenient for that. In fact the next birth will be such as to guide you through whatever the "phalas" of the previous Karmas we are slated to experience.

I hope you are now clear that there is neither any charge-sheet, nor any punishments but it is more like a system of self-assessment, self-guidance and, of course, self-experience of the results also. As you sow, so you reap. There is a Malayalam saying which means 'if you sow the pumpkin seeds, you won't get to harvest the winter-melons'.

 

[prasad1]

Sangom Sir,
I see you have started using Kabir's doha.
Of course I love Kabir's doha.
Your post #28 is brilliant.

 

[sangom]

Sangom Sir,
I see you have started using Kabir's doha.
Of course I love Kabir's doha.
Your post #28 is brilliant.

Dear Shri prasad,

I am also an ardent admirer of Kabir and Kabirvani. But the credit for my using this as my signature is due to yourself because I found you using it in one of your recent posts. This couplet sums up my notion of God and I am proud that a saint of the status of Kabir also said so, centuries ago. Thanks once again.

 

[renuka]

Somehow I don't really buy this Manasakshi theory.
I feel it's just the play of our mind speaking to itself.

Most of us have heard some inner voices Voice A and Voice B saying :

Voice A : "Hey don't do this..it could land you in severe trouble"

Voice B: "Don't be afraid..just do what you feel will be right for you"

Voice A : "Don't listen to that Voice A guy.. he tries to act too goody goody"

Voice B: "Hey A why are you finding fault with me?"

Voice A: "Why are you saying opposing me?"

So this debate goes on and on and finally we weigh both sides and decide what we really want to do.

Ok this debate Voice A and Voice B happens in the Manas portion of Antahkarana and decisions are made in Buddhi portion with the help of Chitta to compare and contrast previous deeds and outcome.

To a certain extent all these Manas Buddhi is shaped and conditioned by our culture,law of country, exposure and conditioning.

So there is real no Manasakshi as we think there is.

It is just internal conflict before a final decision is made.

That is why thought,words and deeds of even identical twins differ.

 

[P.J.]

Dear All
Thanks to all those who answered this.
But still my basic question, point by point never answered by anyone.

The fact is we are not the same person what we were yesterday, or even a minute ago. We are constantly refined by our experiences and how much we learn from them. So if there is so much evolution of thought in a matter of minutes, then we can imagine the evolution we achieve in births


We all started off as a particle, even unaware of our own existence and through a series of births and by your karma, what we are here today, as a human being, has the desire and inclination to think, learn and understand and has the resources, time and energy to do so. Karma theory is not a system for punishment and reward. It's like a grading system. It's not to punish the soul in subsequent births, but to help it to learn.
It’s like getting the best grade.
It just tells us that we need to learn something. So the lessons we learn while trying to get out of trouble of cycle of rebirths are precisely the ones we need to learn.
So when we come out of the cycle of rebirths, we are a better and different person and karma helps us to better our self, just as grade helps us to get better.

Probably some learned members here add more on this.

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

can learned members negate your assumptions point by point

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

renukaji.


lets assume one born in the caste of people whose main occupation is robbery. as per your idea his conditioning it should be normal for him to steal with no guilt feeling. you may be correct.

that's why they say "pirantha kulathalve agumam than petra gunam".
lets see what prasadji and guru ji going to counter yours.

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri. Sangom, Greetings.

I refer to your message in post # 28, please. Sir, you were mentioning about ‘mana saakshi’ and you were also mentioning about ‘adharmic actions’. True, you did not mention as ‘sinful acts’. There was also mention of ‘keeping records’ and ‘charge sheets’ and punishment.

Sir, I like to assure you, I am not obsessed with any God be an Abrahamic or otherwise. In fact, I am not considering ‘God’ in any of my equations. The energy enveloping this cosmos is so huge, the world itself is a tiny spec in that equation. I am really proud we as human species contain a small amount of such energy, even if it is a tiny spec.

We are afraid of comparing ourselves with God. In certain situations we are. If I am told I am going to be rewarded or punished for my poorvajanma Karmas, then who is authorising such punishments or rewards? Someone higher up in the ladder has to do it, I suppose. The buck would eventually stop at God. Now when I see myself in a situation where I can exercise some authority either to reward or punish my children, I think I may compare myself very briefly to God; What’s more, from what I hear from religious bigots, I am much more lenient towards my children than the God expressed by the religious bigots. Now, is it my fault or the fault of the bigots? I submit it to your perusal, please.

I am lenient towards my daughter. The other girl in my household is my wife… in that case, I am the one who gives the ‘slip’ and expects leniency from her… the boss role is changed! LOL!

I am not saying we are the sons/daughters of God; I was told like that. All I said was, ‘even if I can be so accommodative and lenient towards my daughter, how much God should be accommodative and lenient towards others considering his/her/its power and age?

Now lets take the JD example. Since you may not know, I like to inform you, JD is the not the best of the drinks. It is good; but we have ‘blue label stuff’ which are much better, single barrel drinks which are silky smooth and really good stuff… why don’t you bless me with some of those top of the range stuff for my future births?.... Might as well enjoy top, expensive stuff!

I hope you are now clear that there is neither any charge-sheet, nor any punishments but it is more like a system of self-assessment, self-guidance and, of course, self-experience of the results also. As you sow, so you reap. There is a Malayalam saying which means 'if you sow the pumpkin seeds, you won't get to harvest the winter-melons'.

Sir, I am really confused here. Now you are saying there is no charge sheet nor any punishment but it is a system of self- assessment. The biggest trouble is, my mana saakshi would not consider weekly once JD sessions as ‘adharmic’; also my mana saakshi would not consider my visits to some of the naughty sites as ‘adharmic’. Mana saakshi is subjective. Adharmic for me may not adharmic for others; adharmic for others may be acceptable for my mana saakshi.

I can write a long list adharmic things that take place in India. All those persons involved in such adharmic practices may be complete ‘tee totallers’; wouldn’t have even seen non-vegetarian food; would be consuming onlt ‘saatvic’, ginger, garlic and mushroom free diet. But still could be causing psychological agony to others on regular basis without any remorse.

I am not trying to justify my vices. I don’t care really; I just like to enjoy my life. If it means I am going to be back here in a ‘revolving door syndrome’, that’s fine with me. I am not seeking self-realisation, I am not seeking ‘mukthi’, I am not seeking anything. If I am loaded with ‘poorva janma karmas’, so be it; if I am collecting more of the same, so be it! I just try to lead a decent life without causing offence to others. Period. I am not worried about the rest.

Cheers!

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

raghy ji,

if you really dont care , why bother to explain. i somehow feel your manasakshi is pricking you. the one who says i dont care , i dont care .... actually cares a lot , just my feel, could be wrong also.

 

[prasad1]

There was a man in Gautam Buddha’s time whose name was Angulimal. He had taken a vow to cut off one thousand heads, and to take one finger from each dead person and make a garland of one thousand fingers. Angulimal means the man with the garland of one thousand fingers. He was a ferocious man. People stopped going close to him. The road that passed by the hill where he was staying was no longer being used. He had already cut off nine hundred and ninety-nine heads; he was waiting for only one more.
The road that passed by his hill was utterly empty, nobody was coming. And then Buddha came to pass. That road was the shortcut, but people were going the long way around, just to avoid Angulimal. Naturally, Buddha took the shortcut.

Angulimal shouted, ”You please turn back, because only one head is missing! Perhaps you are a stranger... but looking at you, something in me says ‘Let this man go – there are many idiots, I can cut off their heads.’ Even if my mother comes here, I will cut off her head! But you please go back. Don’t come close to me – I am dangerous! Do you see my sword? It is waiting for the last head.” Gautam Buddha continued. He stepped off the road and started moving into the mountains, closer to Angulimal.
Buddha said, ”It is an old tradition and convention to fulfill the last wish of a person who is going to die, and I have a very small wish. You fulfill it and then kill me.” He said, ”What is your wish? Even if it is the biggest thing, I will manage it for you.”
Buddha said, ”No, it is a very small thing. Just cut off a branch of the tree under which you are standing.”
Angulimal said, ”What kind of thing are you asking? But okay, if that is your wish.” With his sword he cut off a branch.
Buddha said, ”Now, put it back. Let it be part of the tree again. Let it blossom again.”
Angulimal said, ”That is impossible. How can I join it with the tree?”
Buddha said, ”If you cannot even join a small branch to the tree, do you see the implications of it? Any child could have broken that branch off the tree, and you are a strong man – you have not done a great job. You can cut off my head, but can you manage to give me life again? And if you cannot create, what right have you to destroy?”

There was a moment of silence. The sword fell from Angulimal’s hands. He threw away that garland of nine hundred and ninety-nine fingers, and fell at Buddha’s feet. He said, ”I never thought about it, that destroying something – any mediocre person, any coward, any idiot can do that. The real genius is creative – you are right. Please accept me as your disciple.”

There is no crime and punishments. There is consequence for every action, how you attach yourself to the results is the determining factor.
All action performed for "Narayana" as a dedication is nishkamakarma, and does not create any vasana for you and is liberating.

 

[Raghy]

raghy ji,

if you really dont care , why bother to explain. i somehow feel your manasakshi is pricking you. the one who says i dont care , i dont care .... actually cares a lot , just my feel, could be wrong also.

Sri.HRHK, Greetings.

If you notice carefully, I am not explaining anything. I am only stating my point of view in detail. What is there to explain? I don't know anything; I can't explain anything either. I have not done any mistakes; I have not offended anyone. There is no reason for my mana saakshi to bother me. I do care for others. I do care for as many persons as I can.

My opinions seem to be different to what you believe. I can't do much about that. I always tell the truth ( so that I don't have to remember everything I said). In my opinion, this life is for me to enjoy. I will do that. I am not going to worry about any unknown things. I may sound silly. But I tell the truth.

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

Dear Sri. Sangom, Greetings.

I refer to your message in post # 28, please. Sir, you were mentioning about ‘mana saakshi’ and you were also mentioning about ‘adharmic actions’. True, you did not mention as ‘sinful acts’. There was also mention of ‘keeping records’ and ‘charge sheets’ and punishment.

Sir, I like to assure you, I am not obsessed with any God be an Abrahamic or otherwise. In fact, I am not considering ‘God’ in any of my equations. The energy enveloping this cosmos is so huge, the world itself is a tiny spec in that equation. I am really proud we as human species contain a small amount of such energy, even if it is a tiny spec.

We are afraid of comparing ourselves with God. In certain situations we are. If I am told I am going to be rewarded or punished for my poorvajanma Karmas, then who is authorising such punishments or rewards? Someone higher up in the ladder has to do it, I suppose. The buck would eventually stop at God. Now when I see myself in a situation where I can exercise some authority either to reward or punish my children, I think I may compare myself very briefly to God; What’s more, from what I hear from religious bigots, I am much more lenient towards my children than the God expressed by the religious bigots. Now, is it my fault or the fault of the bigots? I submit it to your perusal, please.

I am lenient towards my daughter. The other girl in my household is my wife… in that case, I am the one who gives the ‘slip’ and expects leniency from her… the boss role is changed! LOL!

I am not saying we are the sons/daughters of God; I was told like that. All I said was, ‘even if I can be so accommodative and lenient towards my daughter, how much God should be accommodative and lenient towards others considering his/her/its power and age?

Now lets take the JD example. Since you may not know, I like to inform you, JD is the not the best of the drinks. It is good; but we have ‘blue label stuff’ which are much better, single barrel drinks which are silky smooth and really good stuff… why don’t you bless me with some of those top of the range stuff for my future births?.... Might as well enjoy top, expensive stuff!



Sir, I am really confused here. Now you are saying there is no charge sheet nor any punishment but it is a system of self- assessment. The biggest trouble is, my mana saakshi would not consider weekly once JD sessions as ‘adharmic’; also my mana saakshi would not consider my visits to some of the naughty sites as ‘adharmic’. Mana saakshi is subjective. Adharmic for me may not adharmic for others; adharmic for others may be acceptable for my mana saakshi.

I can write a long list adharmic things that take place in India. All those persons involved in such adharmic practices may be complete ‘tee totallers’; wouldn’t have even seen non-vegetarian food; would be consuming onlt ‘saatvic’, ginger, garlic and mushroom free diet. But still could be causing psychological agony to others on regular basis without any remorse.

I am not trying to justify my vices. I don’t care really; I just like to enjoy my life. If it means I am going to be back here in a ‘revolving door syndrome’, that’s fine with me. I am not seeking self-realisation, I am not seeking ‘mukthi’, I am not seeking anything. If I am loaded with ‘poorva janma karmas’, so be it; if I am collecting more of the same, so be it! I just try to lead a decent life without causing offence to others. Period. I am not worried about the rest.

Cheers!

Dear Shri Raghy,

Though it may be possible for me to respond to your post in equally detailed manner, etc., I feel none of us has seen beyond death and so our vehement views are just those—uninformed opinions, at the best. So, for your concluding lines

I am not seeking self-realisation, I am not seeking ‘mukthi’, I am not seeking anything. If I am loaded with ‘poorva janma karmas’, so be it; if I am collecting more of the same, so be it! I just try to lead a decent life without causing offence to others. Period. I am not worried about the rest.

I say "AMEN".

 

[prasad1]

Going back to the original post.:focus:


Kabir das says:
Dukh Mein Simran Sab Kare, Sukh Mein Kare Na Koye
Jo Sukh Mein Simran Kare, Tau Dukh Kahe Ko Hoye

दुख मȂसुमिरन सब करे, सुख मेकरेन कोय ।
जो सुख मेसुमिरन करे, दुख कहेको होय ॥


[In anguish everyone prays to Him, in joy does none
To One who prays in happiness, how sorrow can come]

 

[KUMARRA]

It is one own destiny.
Do all the Good you can, In all the ways you can
In all the places you can, At all the times you can
To all the people you can……Remember that,

Those who bring sunshine to the lives of others cannot keep it from themselves. By reaching others, you will reach yourself.

The same thing you should teach others and your children and above all it is the Karma of ​

POORVA JANMA.

I rember our Grandma tells us when we were children when we do mischievousness, see you will have same fate in your next Janma but this only our Grandma say not our parents nor Granfather say. But above all i feel if a child is disable by birth and take birth in Good family, it is the destiny that he /she will be taken care very well but if he born in some poor family what will be the fate of the child ? this is KARMA. It is not only a child birth, but anything it can be like wife should be of good nature,thier parents ,children , releatives, Collegues & freinds cycle.A bright person future can be scatterd by a bad nature of his surrounding people whether it is wife, relative or freind.

 

[amala]

I have a question especially would like to get Sangom Sirs input, but all welcome. Apologies ifmy question is construed as silly. But who/what gets to decide what is "sinful", "adharmic" etc? Is it to a large extent subjective and relative or can I have an objective list? Thanks.

 

[sravna]

I have a question especially would like to get Sangom Sirs input, but all welcome. Apologies ifmy question is construed as silly. But who/what gets to decide what is "sinful", "adharmic" etc? Is it to a large extent subjective and relative or can I have an objective list? Thanks.

Dear Amala,

As one member put it, the concept of adharma or sin should be viewed in the larger context of how the soul is made to evolve towards moksha. Basically I would say dharma is being righteous, that is acting in a way towards others that is devoid of any self interest. So adharma is acting in a contrary way. The more the interest of self is there, the more you are prone to harm others and more would be the adharma.

The extent of "punishment" for adharma I think would depend on how much that adharma propagates or is influential.

 

[renuka]

renukaji.


lets assume one born in the caste of people whose main occupation is robbery. as per your idea his conditioning it should be normal for him to steal with no guilt feeling. you may be correct.

that's why they say "pirantha kulathalve agumam than petra gunam".
lets see what prasadji and guru ji going to counter yours.

Dear Sir,

Robbery is a crime..as far as I know it is not included in the duties of any of the 4 Varnas.
Is there any specific robber caste?

BTW if robbery is accepted as an occupation then a robber should not be convicted in the court of law.

Stealing and robbery can be done by anyone..after all in our Puranas itself some of the Devas were quite infamous for stealing away the horses for Ashvamedha.

 

[sangom]

I have a question especially would like to get Sangom Sirs input, but all welcome. Apologies ifmy question is construed as silly. But who/what gets to decide what is "sinful", "adharmic" etc? Is it to a large extent subjective and relative or can I have an objective list? Thanks.

Kum. Amala,

I think I had written perhaps in this very thread, that what is dharmic is what you would like others do unto you and so you should behave in the very same manner towards others. I remember having given the Bible quote also:

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. (Matthew 7:12)

Nobody sits up there in the heaven or Lord Yama's court and decides which are the sins committed by you, imo. It is up to each one of us to decide. As I wrote in another of my posts in this thread, it is self-assessment, self-regulation and experiencing the result by one's own self. But, in our self-assessment, the śloka from subhāṣitaṃ given below may be useful:

तर्कोऽप्रतिष्ठः श्रुतयॊ विभिन्नाः
नैकोमुनिर्यस्य वचः प्रमाणम् ।
धर्मस्य तत्वं निहितं गुहायाम्
महाजनो येन गतः स पन्थाः ॥

(tarko:'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnāḥ
naikomuniryasya vacaḥ pramāṇam |
dharmasya tatvaṃ nihitaṃ guhāyām
mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ ||)

Anything other than Dharmic is sinful, imho, but we ordinary human beings cannot live a life completely Dahrmic and may be forced by circumstances to deviate from the narrow path. But, AFAP, we should strive not to inflict long term damage or suffering to others.

I will recount an issue which cropped up just yesterday. One of my young relatives (a man) has just returned from a 3-months' deputation to US. All of us know that he must have brought some good savings because he was living alone there, he has no habits like drinking, etc. and is very conscious of his responsiblities as son, husband, father of his children, etc. He has a bosom friend who is also a relative of mine. This friend it seems telephoned him two or three days ago asking for a loan of Rs. 50,000 which he would return shortly and is needed just for starting a "Foreign Exchange" business. When this news came to me, I cautioned the former to be circumspect, make more enquiries as to what sort of Foreign Exchange business that fellow was starting, whether it is some hawaala business, etc., and only after due diligence part with his hard-earned money.

My advice is "adhaarmic" if we look at it from the prospective borrower's pov. But I felt that the timing, amount asked for, the purpose stated, are all not convincing and it is better to be careful before parting with one's hard-earned money.

So, you see the matter is subjective to a large extent but not completely so. You might have heard of the story of the courtesan and the sanyasi; what the courtesan did for her livelihood was sinful from the society's pov but her devotion to God stood by her, whereas what the sanyasi outwardly did for his living was laudable for the society pov but his mental attitude led him to the netherworld.

Viewed from the above points, habits such as drinking, smoking (without inconveniencing others), eating non-vegetarian food, doing/using prostitution, watching pornography and so on, may not be either sinful or adhaarmic acts, but each of these will have its own reaction which will have to be experienced in this birth or in some other birth, imho.

 

[P.J.]

There was a man in Gautam Buddha’s time whose name was Angulimal. He had taken a vow to cut off one thousand heads, and to take one finger from each dead person and make a garland of one thousand fingers. Angulimal means the man with the garland of one thousand fingers. He was a ferocious man. People stopped going close to him. The road that passed by the hill where he was staying was no longer being used. He had already cut off nine hundred and ninety-nine heads; he was waiting for only one more.
The road that passed by his hill was utterly empty, nobody was coming. And then Buddha came to pass. That road was the shortcut, but people were going the long way around, just to avoid Angulimal. Naturally, Buddha took the shortcut.

Angulimal shouted, ”You please turn back, because only one head is missing! Perhaps you are a stranger... but looking at you, something in me says ‘Let this man go – there are many idiots, I can cut off their heads.’ Even if my mother comes here, I will cut off her head! But you please go back. Don’t come close to me – I am dangerous! Do you see my sword? It is waiting for the last head.” Gautam Buddha continued. He stepped off the road and started moving into the mountains, closer to Angulimal.
Buddha said, ”It is an old tradition and convention to fulfill the last wish of a person who is going to die, and I have a very small wish. You fulfill it and then kill me.” He said, ”What is your wish? Even if it is the biggest thing, I will manage it for you.”
Buddha said, ”No, it is a very small thing. Just cut off a branch of the tree under which you are standing.”
Angulimal said, ”What kind of thing are you asking? But okay, if that is your wish.” With his sword he cut off a branch.
Buddha said, ”Now, put it back. Let it be part of the tree again. Let it blossom again.”
Angulimal said, ”That is impossible. How can I join it with the tree?”
Buddha said, ”If you cannot even join a small branch to the tree, do you see the implications of it? Any child could have broken that branch off the tree, and you are a strong man – you have not done a great job. You can cut off my head, but can you manage to give me life again? And if you cannot create, what right have you to destroy?”

There was a moment of silence. The sword fell from Angulimal’s hands. He threw away that garland of nine hundred and ninety-nine fingers, and fell at Buddha’s feet. He said, ”I never thought about it, that destroying something – any mediocre person, any coward, any idiot can do that. The real genius is creative – you are right. Please accept me as your disciple.”

There is no crime and punishments. There is consequence for every action, how you attach yourself to the results is the determining factor.
All action performed for "Narayana" as a dedication is nishkamakarma, and does not create any vasana for you and is liberating.

Dear Prasad Sir
Wonderful story, i really appreciate it. thanks

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

Dear Sir,

Robbery is a crime..as far as I know it is not included in the duties of any of the 4 Varnas.
Is there any specific robber caste?

BTW if robbery is accepted as an occupation then a robber should not be convicted in the court of law.

Stealing and robbery can be done by anyone..after all in our Puranas itself some of the Devas were quite infamous for stealing away the horses for Ashvamedha.

in tn these kind of villages are still present where the whole community engage in this occupation . pls read ju vee or watch vijay tv + nadanthathu enna .

ada etha kavanikkaleye

Devallum thiruddinal, kullthuukkum kuttrathukkum/gunathhukkum no relation that's your point correct?

deva thirdena athu seithi , thats news ...and the punishment is also severe . just take the case of Indra, one time he didn't receive the garland given by RISHI DURVASAR properly .. is it a crime ? but he suffered on account of this for very long long time all his wealth was disappeared inside ocean , and only returned after the churning of ocean , it took long long time .

see devas if the erred even slightly they have to suffer no choice.

so periyava vakku stands still " PIRANTHA KULLATHALLVE AGUMAM THAAN PETRA GUNAM".

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

prasadji
you mean angulimala was left unpunished !!!! and nobody killed him before he killed 999 persons.


unbelievable... iyyoh..

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

so wats the moral of this story ...glory of Buddha?

 

[sangom]

so wats the moral of this story ...glory of Buddha?

Since your question is not addressed specifically to anyone, let me say that this glorifies "Ahimsa" and, also Buddha's courage in facing Angulimal and trying to change his world-view.