How Punishment or reward for one's action in previous birth help to reform a soul?

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

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what is the motive of angulimala to kill 1000 person ... the story line is inspiration to tamil cinema i think..

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

he already did narahatti himsai to 999 people... where is the ahimsai?

Oh ! i got it , the story line is to project buddha image , that he was able to bring some sense even to senseless cruel man.

sivaji nadippaiyum veda overa errukku story line, pramadhham, besh besh..

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

sangom ji,

dont have to be so formal just join the fun..

 

[sangom]

sangom ji,

dont have to be so formal just join the fun..

fun-லெ join பண்ணினா கதை எல்லாமே கதை தான், புத்தன் ஆனால் என்ன, சங்கராசாரியார் ஆனால் என்ன? ஆனால் நம்ம ஆளு என்று வரும்பொது rules-ஏ மாறி விடலாம், இல்லியா? So, I feel it's better to live and let live - panchasheel, என்ன இது? திரும்பவும் புத்தனா?

 

[amala]

Thank you Sangom Sir and SravnaJi for your replies. I do find it all slightly abstract to be honest. I guess self regulating is the hardest. Its much easier to empower someone else to do that! Except then it will be forced and not something voluntary, I suppose.

 

[Raghy]

but ji please consider ji , more caring persons who walked on our earth like Thiruvalluvar, Ouvai, etc... and by and large our society elders all condemn drinking ji.

but you enjoy drinking ji so i don't have heart to continue... why should i say something bad about what you enjoy? lets leave the topic...

but your girl partying, couldn't understand ji. if she develops liking for many males in partying how she is going to live with a steady partner.. unthinkable for me..

anyway your life...

Sri. HRHK, Greetings.

I am not advocating alcohol drinking for anyone. It is like catching the tiger by the tail. I do have a good control of my mind to keep the drinking in moderation. I just drink about once a week, but I binge on that night; other nights I don't even look at that stuff, even if I had days off.

Secondly, consuming alcohol is bad if the person drinks away the money for the family. I know such cases. I am trying to rehabiltate such persons on the daily basis. Right now I have two persons who face issues due to alcohol. Part of my job is to get them rehabilitated. Only last week I was discussing alcohol rehabilitation with one person.. in the past he got phobia about someone else, stabbed him multiple times while he was under influence. Sir, I deal with drug addicts and even murderers. So in those circumstances I strongly advocate zero tolerance to alcohol.

Consumption of alcohol is one thing. What happens after consumption is the most important thing. If the person under influence becomes aggressive and violent, such persons should not consume. I know of cases who got psychotic under alcohol influence too. As one can see, there are lot of things to consider before we say 'alcohol consumption is bad'. But as I said, alcohol consumption is like catching a snake. I know how to deal with it and still have fun. Most of the songs in the thread 'Nice Songs' were posted when I was undr influence. One can easily see my psychological make up under influence.

Children are just children. If my daughter goes partying, she just does that. No more or no less. There is no 'partner' as such. She said she is not ready for a partner yet. Only two weeks ago I and my wife discussed with her about that. Here the culture is different. Just because a girl goes for partying does not mean she would have 'loose moral values'. On the contrary, she knows exactly what she is doing. She is studying full time, works part time. She holds a key postion in her employment, promoted over the period of time. She has few youngsters working under her. We are not concerned about her. As parents we always worry about our children though.

Thank you for your concern. Kindly rest assured, our daughter is a very decent girl.

Cheers!

 

[prasad1]

so wats the moral of this story ...glory of Buddha?

Ok let us say you are against Buddha (may be because he was not a Hindu), how about Valmiki.

His birth name was Dacoit Ratnakara. When everyone left to travel south Sumali took his son and wife and moved near the bank of Vipasa River (Northern India). The Uttara Khanda tells the story of Valmiki's early life, as an unnamed highway robber who used to rob people before killing them. Robbing people who passed by was the only source of money for him.

One day Narada Muni was passing by that way when he ran into Ratnakara, who insisted him to give everything he owns, from his clothing to the shoes he was wearing. Naradamily was part of this sin that he was committing and he told him to go ask his family that same question. Ratnakara tied Narada to a tree to make him stay in that same spot until he was back. When Ratnakara asked his parents if they were with him on the sin that he was doing, they replied that it was his job to take care of them, and that he was only responsible for his own sins. His wife also said the same thing. Ratnakara then returned to Narad Muni and fell to his feet. He told him that he alone was responsible for the sins and asked him to help him get rid of the sins he had committed.
Narada told him to repeat Lord Rama's name and that would assist him. Then, after Narada left, Ratnakara went into a deep penance while reciting the Lord's name. Soon, an anthill grew around him. After a long penance, a divine light came upon him and said that he was free from all sins, and that he was to be called "Valmiki" from then (Valmiki meaning 'one who sits in an anthill' in Sanskrit).

Do you get is now.

 

[sangom]

Thank you Sangom Sir and SravnaJi for your replies. I do find it all slightly abstract to be honest. I guess self regulating is the hardest. Its much easier to empower someone else to do that! Except then it will be forced and not something voluntary, I suppose.

Kum. Amala,

The mystery (or fun, if you will prefer that) of life is this self-regulation. It is like கண்ணைக் கெட்டிக் காட்டிலெ விட்ட மாதிரி. And each one of us has to find our way through. That is where the mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (the path trodden by great people) comes to our help. But, again, we live in different conditions and it may not be possible or intelligent to adopt an ஈயடிச்சான் காப்பி attitude. What our parents advised or set an example for us will also be helpful.

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

fun-லெ join பண்ணினா கதை எல்லாமே கதை தான், புத்தன் ஆனால் என்ன, சங்கராசாரியார் ஆனால் என்ன? ஆனால் நம்ம ஆளு என்று வரும்பொது rules-ஏ மாறி விடலாம், இல்லியா? So, I feel it's better to live and let live - panchasheel, என்ன இது? திரும்பவும் புத்தனா?

illai.

you can compare apple to apple, likewise gold to gold or even gold to pitthalai but you cannot compare the incomparable with anything.

Shruti Smriti Purananam
Alayam karunaalayam
namami Bhagavat padancha sankaram loka sankaram.

what " live and let live " ... funny ... why u said this?

 

[moodamadayan]

Hello everybody,

Very interesting query indeed! But before coming to think of an answer for the query I am reminded of what happened to King Janaka in Ramayana. Sage Vashist was his Guru and on an occasion Janaka insisted to his Guru that the Guru should tell him who his wife was in his previous birth? The sage just refused to answer but Janaka was very adamant and after long arguments Sage Vashist with great reluctance declared that Janaka's present wife was his MOTHER in his previous birth. We all can understand the predicament of Janaka. After the revelation it was impossible for Janaka to have any other thought about his wife. That is why it is said that Seetha was born to Bhooma devi as she came out of earth. The wonderful mechanism of this forgetfulness is something which ensures things in relationship are smooth.If we have all past lives' memory it will lead to total anarchy....

 

[sangom]

illai.

you can compare apple to apple, likewise gold to gold or even gold to pitthalai but you cannot compare the incomparable with anything.

Shruti Smriti Purananam
Alayam karunaalayam
namami Bhagavat padancha sankaram loka sankaram.

what " live and let live " ... funny ... why u said this?

Shri HRHK,

This is why I refrained from joining your so-called fun. When it comes to Sankaracharya, you see the case becomes one of brass vs gold and so on. But you have, unknowingly, shown that people like you have only superficial knowledge and try to preach to others.

The correct version of the sloka is "namami Bhagavat padasankaram, loka sam karam" (I prostrate before Sankara who is the very feet of Bhagavaan, and is one who brings prosperity (Sam) to the worlds (loka sam karam). But you have just very easily demoted Sankara by your Cha; what you have written means "I prostrate before the feet of God and (cha) sankara who brings prosperity to the worlds". Even if the meaning may be passab;e, the sloka suffers from wrong metrical construction (vrittam).

Live & let live is not to unnecessarily pass comments which may hurt another member, whether it is for "fun" or intentional.

 

[renuka]

so wats the moral of this story ...glory of Buddha?

Dear HRHK,

Why this KKKG(Kabhi Kushi Kabhi Gham)?

What is so wrong to acknowledge the glory of Lord Buddha?

After all isn't the Angulimala story similar to the story of Ratnakara who finally became Valmiki?

Don't we all glorify Valmiki to have authored the Ramayan?

In Treta Yuga we had Valmiki and in Kali Yuga we had Angulimala...that's all.

 

[moodamadayan]

The wonderful mechanism that is available is our forgetfulness of the previous births. I am reminded of the story of King Janaka whose Guru was Sage vashista. Janaka wanted desperately to know from the sage what was Janaka wife in her previous birth? The Sage resisted but Janaka was very stubborn. At last the sage had to give in with great reluctance and told Janaka that his present life wife was his mother in the previous birth. Janaka was so much stunned by the information that he refused to consider his wife as wife. That's why we read in Ramayana that Sita was born to Bhooma Devi. If only we remember all that happened in our previous births, it will be chaos and anarchy in the world.

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

so you found "chor kuttram in 'the sloka. cha in Sanskrit is used as conjunction similar to" and" in English. when two lines are joined the "cha" is used as conjunction .

it is set on anushtup metre . you can check -namami bhagavat padam- is 8 syllables and sankaram loka sankaram is another 8.
when you say, you can join these two lines and say no problem .
since mine is "kelvi gnanam ' i wrote what i heard.

sankara path leAd to atma gnanam , Buddha path leads to niratma vadam . that's why i said sankara is incomparable ,not because i like my religion or im devoted to sankara.

i have a little or no devotion to anything. but i could appreciate real good work from whoever so.

some text in Buddhism i appreciate . one is a prayer book invoking lord " yamantaka" to kill the demon of selfishness. a real good one.

you can say i have only superficial knowledge , i completely agree with you. that doesn't mean i have to accept all things said here. with whatever limited knowledge i have , ill post. with your indepth knowledge you can throw light.

so far i didn't pass unnecessary comment and will never but ill give back what i get . that's only fair , correct?.

 

[prasad1]

The op was about rebirth. It is not about our ego.:focus:
The following quote is appropriate.

We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while
others judge us by what we have done.


-- Longfellow.
Thanks to Mr. Subrahmanyam

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/philosophy-traditions/5413-thought-today-106.html#post164320

 

[sangom]

so you found "chor kuttram in 'the sloka. cha in Sanskrit is used as conjunction similar to" and" in English. when
two lines are joined the "cha" is used as conjunction .
it is set on anushtup metre . you can check -namami bhagavat padam- is 8 syllables and sankaram loka sankaram
is another 8. when you say you can join these two lines and say no problem .
since mine is "kelvi gnanam ' i wrote what i heard.

sankara path leAd to atma gnanam , Buddha path leads to niratma vadam . that's why i said sankara is incomparable ,not because i like my religion or im devoted to sankara.

i have a little or no devotion to anything. but i could appreciate real good work from whoever so.

some text in Buddhism i appreciate . one is a prayer book invoking lord " yamantaka" to kill the demon of selfishness. a real good one.

you can say i have only superficial knowledge , i completely agree with you. that doesn't mean i have to accept all things said here. with whatever limited knowledge i have , ill post. with your indepth knowledge you can throw light.

so far i didn't pass unnecessary comment and will never but ill give back what i get . that's only correct?.

Shri HRHK,

My intention was not at all to hurt you or anyone else but only to point out the fact that usually we people are guided by a host of biases, which masquerade in our minds as patriotism, devotion to religion, guru, etc., and so on. In reality, however, these biases produce more harm than good, if we can have unbiased thinking.

Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, etc., were individuals who could influence the minds of thousands or millions of people and the followers look upon them as Prophets. While you & I were not born into families which follow any of these prophets, our own Rigveda has this famous wish "ā no bhadrāḥ kratavo yantu viśvataḥ" (Let noble thoughts/deeds come to us from all sides.) The word kratu means, in the Rigvedic context, right judgment, good understanding, inspiration, , enightenment, a sacrificial rite, etc. (Monier Williams Dictionary). So, there is no harm in reading some new materials, analysing whether they are conducive to our betterment and accept if we find it to be so. Viewed in this light, there are many anecdotes/legends/myths connected with the lives of the above prophets which appear to me to be good for a human being's spiritual upliftment.

You seem to hold Sankara (who came to be called bhagavatpāda: by probably his first four disciples themselves, but I am not sure of this) to be showing you ātmajñānam while Buddha leads you to nirātmavādaṃ. May be you are right but, are you, me or anyone else following Sankara's path of advaita earnestly? Are we not blindly following the dvaita philosophy to which Sankara never subscribed? In such a case what relevance has ātmavāda or nirātmavāda got to do with our reading a story and finding out if it has some good moral/s for us? What moral/s do you expect people to have by reading Jayadeva's aṣṭapadī?

To me it appears as though you have a certain dislike for some member's post/s here and your dislike comes out in various forms. I do not know your age, educational qualifications, job & financial status etc., but blindly, I will suggest that you try to do some amount of nididhyāsana (deep and profound meditation about the self in you); that will do you a lot of good, imho.

coming to coṟkkuṟṟam, I am not sure whether this is the correct Tamil word, but my meagre knowledge of Tamil says possibly it is yāppu or yāppuk kuṟṟam. And when that ca is placed between bhagavatpādaṃ and śaṃkaraṃ loka śaṃ karaṃ, the result is namāmi bhagavatpādaṃ, namāmi śaṃkaraṃ loka śaṃ karaṃ, and so the honorific bhagavatpādaṃ goes away from śaṃkaraṃ loka śaṃ karaṃ. Additionally it also adds one mātrā to the third (or the fourth) line.

Yamantaka, as the word implies, is a mantra to ward off death. Given below are two urls which are relevant to this mantra :-
Yamantaka puja (full version) - YouTube
Commentary on An Extensive Six-Session Yoga ? Session Three: Safe Direction (Refuge) and Bodhichitta

This should reveal to you that this Yamantaka concept, if you are also referring to the same thing, is nothing but a part of Vajrayaana Buddhism, which is Tantric and is anathema for vedic hinduism.

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

i think you read too much in between the lines and with advanced age you are in "give advise " attitude.

Please be assured I don't dislike anyone, but some haughty writings provoke me to rebutt that's all.

since you start comparing, all the vada's come into picture , i'm sure u are able to read the connection between the dialogue we had.

i didnt write poetry for you to find yappu kuttram, its just a sudden out pour of what i heard..

Not this one you refer for yamantaka , there is another work... simply beautiful.

what is buddhahood or enlightenment as defined by them is the only thing i oppose , i have no dislike or hatred to any one. just the logic doesnt fit that's all.

In singapore my only source of vege food at my work place is buddhist food stalls , why i dislike , i like but that doesn't mean i have to accept illogical works. whenever i got a chance to express this i ll express on there pitfall just to alert them that's all. ELLAM AVAN SEYAL . why i worry ?

Please read carefully i only attack the ideas if it is wrong, never a person.

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

Dear HRHK,

Why this KKKG(Kabhi Kushi Kabhi Gham)?

What is so wrong to acknowledge the glory of Lord Buddha?

After all isn't the Angulimala story similar to the story of Ratnakara who finally became Valmiki?

Don't we all glorify Valmiki to have authored the Ramayan?

In Treta Yuga we had Valmiki and in Kali Yuga we had Angulimala...that's all.

Renuka ji,

who say wrong ?

similar ? one is story with a hidden motivation to convert others another is an incident told without any hidden agenda.

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

rig veda , says only about noble thoughts/deeds .

 

[prasad1]

Calling the respected and learned senior member names

i think you read too much in between the lines and with advanced age you are in "give advise " attitude.

And then saying:

Please read carefully i only attack the ideas if it is wrong, never a person.

What a shame, the misuse of the language. Even an apology is like an attack.

 

[Raghy]

Sri. HRHK, Greetings.

Kindly back off, sir. By your own admission you have reproduced what you have heard. Nothing wrong with that. There is no need to go in to too much details about these things. You are a knowledgeble person by your own rights. We are enjoying your point of views. Sri. Sangom is a Sanskrit scholar who writes based on his knowledge. There is no need to get in to debates. Lets us enjoy all the views expressed. Kindly go easy, please. Thank you.

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

Renuka ji,

who say wrong ?

similar ? one is story with a hidden motivation to convert others another is an incident told without any hidden agenda.

Dear HRHK,

You say "Who says its wrong?"

Then in your next line you contradict your ownself by saying this:

similar ? one is story with a hidden motivation to convert others another is an incident told without any hidden agenda.​

BTW just use some logic ..If Lord Buddha had some hidden agenda He would have stayed back in his palace and dictated everyone by force to comply to his preaching.

He lacked nothing from the worldly point of view..born a Prince, the future King,blessed with good looks and a beautiful wife and son..come on yaar..I am sure you yourself would have stayed back in the palace and not go out in the woods to seek the Truth to enlighten the world.

I know you are holding on to the Shiva Purana story..but have you realized that story did not mention the name of the False Prophet.

And further more after Tripura was burnt..this so called False Prophet was asked to stay in a desert area where in Kali Yuga he will rise again.

Ok now how does Lord Buddha fit into a desert scenario?LOL
Do you know where Lord Buddha was born??

So I feel we should not take stories literally..

After all the story is about the burning of 3 cities which has Gold,Silver and Iron Forts.

That symbolizes our 3 Gunas.

So the False Prophet was just Maya that makes us drown in it.

After the 3 cities were burnt..the False Prophet was asked to stay in a desert area till Kali yuga.

In a desert there is no water hence just to symbolize no nourishment for the 3 Gunas to resurface again.

Now next..till Kali Yuga..all of us know that in Kali Yuga Adharma prevails..hence the False Prophet(Maya) will rise again becos the Time and Age will be conducive for the interplay of the Gunas again.

As you said before..you can believe what ever you want.

 

[renuka]

The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda Volume 7 [ Page : 59 ] INSPIRED TALKS

Buddha was a great Vedantist (for Buddhism was really only an offshoot of Vedanta), and Shankara is often called a "hidden Buddhist". Buddha made the analysis, Shankara made the synthesis out of it. Buddha never bowed down to anything -- neither Veda, nor caste, nor priest, nor custom. He fearlessly reasoned so far as reason could take him. Such a fearless search for truth and such love for every living thing the world has never seen.Buddha was the Washington of the religious world; he conquered a throne only to give it to the world, as Washington did to the American people. He sought nothing for himself.

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

lord Buddha don't have hidden agenda but the one who penned the story sure have or else the story line would not be so empty . only the story line looks empty to me. i'm only attacking the storyline not anybody or anything.

as i said my posts are responding to ideas expressed nothing to do with the person who post. if one is so attached to the view he post then he / she should not post in a forum that way one can avoid seeing opponent view point and save himself from hurt.

anyway i enjoyed your explanations on tripura samhara . but the thing on emerge from desert are news to me.

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

im interested only in the end product . vedanta means final conclusion on the query what is self or atma ? or who am i? there could be only one valid answer not 2 .
if vedanta says one answer and Buddhaanta say opposite view then other is not an off shoot of vedanta. it directly contradics , it is opposing view.

here what is debated should be the ideas expressed and not with personalities behind the scene and its not going to benefit any body.

i may like Buddha too but that doesn't mean i ve to accept what is said in there text.