I C and I R weddings!

[krish44]

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Iyers denoted only they belong to so called highest jaati of brahmana varna ,

Smartha got added to it at adi sankaracharya time.

Smartha meant only follower of smriti

They worshipped easwara made up of five manifestation incuding siva.

Later smartha bacame synonymous with worship of siva

Many who became followers of Ramanuja got called as iyengars.

In that sense could be called off shoot of iyers and are vaishnavite iyers.

Other iyers became smartha iyers meaning followers off siva.

 

[krish44]

Both shouldnt have High IQ..then simple task would become difficult.

Thats why I behave like an innocent low IQ fellow.

All compex jobs become simple due to my simplistic thinking.

you know idiots with limited IQ do well in life?

They do as instructed by those near them and are very successful.

I owe my material success to all people who consider themselves brilliant and advise me on what to do on any issue.

I blindly do most times and succeed.

Those who act win .

Those who advise and not do get left behind.lol

 

[krish44]

More interesting to discuss

How parents should cope with children who get into IC/IR relationships and approach them for their consent and blessings?

What are the reasons children give for marrying IR/IC and what could be the responses?

Does any parent reason rationally with them pointing out the pros and cons ?

Some case studies by someone who has gone thru and enlightenment they got.

 

[vgane]

Later smartha bacame synonymous with worship of siva .

That's incorrect..,.Smarthas worshipped initially Ganesha, Siva, Devi (Shakti), Vishnu & Surya..Was called Panchayatana Puja..To this got added Kartikeya (Lord Murugan) as Shanmata

 

[Raji Ram]

More interesting to discuss

1. How parents should cope with children who get into IC/IR relationships and approach them for their consent and blessings?

2. What are the reasons children give for marrying IR/IC and what could be the responses?

3. Does any parent reason rationally with them pointing out the pros and cons ?

4. Some case studies by someone who has gone thru and enlightenment they got.

1. Depends on the parents.

Those who stick to orthodox living will abandon their son / daughter; may be ONLY if they are financially independent!

2. What reason except love - either for beauty or brains or money!

3. I don't think the adults who fall in love will pay heed to parents' :blah: !
4. Shall wait for an answer from some other member. :couch2:

 

[krish44]

That's incorrect..,.Smarthas worshipped initially Ganesha, Siva, Devi (Shakti), Vishnu & Surya..Was called Panchayatana Puja..To this got added Kartikeya (Lord Murugan) as Shanmata

True there was an attempt to integrate worship of various dieties such as siva ,vishnu, shakthi, surya ,ganesha .

Now many temples have only siva , shakthi and navagrahas and others are relegated or not there.

One sees ganesha also separately

In how many temples does one comes across vishnu in addition to siva.?

Kartikeya is only a tamil god worshipped by all castes.

Smartha implies smriti and nothing more

 

[krish44]

In Bali largest hindu temple, I saw Eswara at the highest pedestal [different from siva]

At the next level were Brahma, shiva, vishnu, sun and shakthi.

God Eswara was all above representation of creative, sustaining and destructive aspects of God.

 

[krish44]

1. Depends on the parents.

Those who stick to orthodox living will abandon their son / daughter; may be ONLY if they are financially independent!

2. What reason except love - either for beauty or brains or money!

3. I don't think the adults who fall in love will pay heed to parents' :blah: !
4. Shall wait for an answer from some other member. :couch2:

OK I will start with the last item case study first.

Case study 1

One tamil brahmin girl from an economically weak family wanted to marry a school mate a muslim boy.

Well educated both.She was a working girl and well employed. She approached her parents who knew the boy and his parents.

They did not agree to the match .

When the extended family got involved, some wanted to prevent the marriage.

However it was pointed out to them that they are not capable to find a brahmin match nor have the financial strength to help the girls parents, they withdrew.

They got married with blessings of both parents.

For their own security the couple after marriage emigrated to canada and are happy there.

Both keep their own religion and children are muslim as father is muslim.

Could any of them done something different.?

 

[krish44]

In this case study, all were good humanbeings.

Girls Parents did not have the financial capacity to get a brahmin match.

Extended family was decent enough to lay off instead of complicating the issue further.

Boy and his parents were sensible and accomodative.

His parents stayed in india and let the boy and girl emigrate to a safer country in the western world.

They did not take any dowry and marriage was simple.

All this talk of people of other religions are villains is not necessarily correct

 

[vasuja]

What is wrong in supporting this ?
Both my children have married outside the religion but it does not prevent us from continuing our sampradhayam. We lead our life and pray for our moksha. What our children's do is not in our hands. As long as they are happy and respect their parents it is enough for us.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Emigrated to Canada for safety reasons?

What are they afraid of? Whom they need to be secured from?

Not all people will have the means or capacity or opportunity to emigrate to canada or other foreign places. What can be done in such cases?

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Do you know something interesting.

Vadagalai iyengars prefer vadama iyers to thengalai.

I would not like to speculate why.

The reason is most of Vadagalai Iyengars are from Vadama Sect. This has happened after the arrival of Ramanuja, who belonged to Vadama Iyer family.

 

[Vaagmi]

In this case study, all were good humanbeings.

Girls Parents did not have the financial capacity to get a brahmin match.

Extended family was decent enough to lay off instead of complicating the issue further.

Boy and his parents were sensible and accomodative.

His parents stayed in india and let the boy and girl emigrate to a safer country in the western world.

They did not take any dowry and marriage was simple.

All this talk of people of other religions are villains is not necessarily correct

Here people take love marriages and are trying to generalise them to a community's all marriages. This kind of automatic extension of logic is fraught with serious errors.

In the case under discussion the girl loved a Muslim and married him. Our Krishji is concluding that " All this talk of people of other religions are villains is not necessarily correct". If there were 80 percent of marriages inter religion and all of them were with Muslims and had turned out to be successful this conclusion will be supported. Otherwise it is a fanciful conclusion.

Just think what would have happened to the girl if one fine morning the boy had come home, had a plateful of thyirsadam with maavadu offered by his brahmin wife and then called her and told her Talaq three times without break. That is just nothing in his culture and it is his right directly revealed in his holy books. But, for the poor brahmin girl what a bang it would be. That is why IR marriages are to be taken with a liberal dose of salt.

In love marriages every rule of arranged marriage is given a go bye. It is just love and nothing else. It may work well if the two had really understood each other well and have the determination to make the marriage a success. Otherwise it will be a failure worse than the failure in the case of an arranged marriage.

 

[krish44]

The only thing that hurts in case of abrahamic religion is their intolerance of all other religions.

It is only their God that is good and others have to fall in line.

Brahmins are also equally protective of their brahmin identity and it is very difficult for any outsider to become part of their community thru marriage and make a

success of it.

When such extremes get together in a marriage relationship , chances of success are minimal.

The after effects of failure are also phenomenal as they are no back ups for both as they have in many cases defied their own families to get married.

My case study was random , one of the fairly successful ones.

Probably there could be more failures than successes.

 

[krish44]

What is painful is the fate of children out of these matches.

The IC/IR off springs do not have a specific identity due to intermix.

If one parent is brahmin. he/she would desire a match in his own caste/religeous community for his//her child.

Unfortunately , most brahmins would not accept their offsprings marrying these intercastes/IR

One of my relations in an intercaste marriage was forced to settle the marriage in a non brahmin caste as no brahmin would accept it.

The boy wanted a brahmin match like his mothers caste.He wanted only an arranged match.

Disgusted ,he married a girl from non brahmin caste of the other parent and left the country for good.

He has no plans to return to india because of caste experiences

 

[Raji Ram]

......... My case study was random , one of the fairly successful ones.

Probably there could be more failures than successes.

​Not probably, Krish Sir! There ARE!! :nod:

 

[renuka]

The IC/IR off springs do not have a specific identity due to intermix.

I beg to differ here ..

Why should an intercaste progeny feel that they do not have an identity?

I dont feel that way at all.

This identity crisis only happens if one desperately wants to identify with just part of themselves and one parents sort of dominates and try to influence kids.

If one enjoys being themselves they enjoy being a hybrid becos its opens up their mind to more than one culture and can blend it with either side.

Identity not really about a belonging to any community.

Identity is about loving self and being confident with self.

BTW most hybrids prefer to marry a hybrid..that is what I did!LOL

Reason is full breeds seem a bit too traditional.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Krish Sir,

Do you mean to say that I C / I R couple should leave India to be safe? :nono:

There are brahmin parents who appreciate the non-brahmin spouse of their son / daughter and say that they could not

have found such a good alliance in brahmins! They conduct grand weddings too. My father's assistant's grand daughter

married a naidu guy and the girl's grandma, who is very close to me, was very happy about the alliance. About a dozen

persons from hat guy's family had visited the grandma's house and prepared a feast with the stuff they had brought and

there were about 30 persons for lunch! The couple live in Sing. Chennai.

Of course, those who live abroad have more opportunities. Two of my music students who went for master's degree to the

U S of A, brought their own choice of spouse from NB community. Weddings were grand! Only Ram and I were a bit upset

because both the girls are good looking and intelligent! It would have been better if they had chosen a brahmin spouse. The

parents of those girls told me that they are happy and the choice is THE best!!

 

[Raji Ram]

..... BTW most hybrids prefer to marry a hybrid..that is what I did!LOL

Reason is full breeds seem a bit too traditional.

:nono: Full breeds are not always traditional, Renu!

There are liberal parents who just leave their son / daughter to find their own match. There are two reasons.

1. They don't have to approach the astrologers!
2.They won't be blamed if the wedding is not successful! eace:

 

[renuka]

:nono: Full breeds are not always traditional, Renu!

There are liberal parents who just leave their son / daughter to find their own match. There are two reasons.

1. They don't have to approach the astrologers!
2.They won't be blamed if the wedding is not successful! eace:

Dear RR ji,

The full breeds Non Brahmins out here can get traditional..esp some of the proposals I got...that is why I preferred to marry a hybrid.

But I noticed out here some Brahmins search for grooms/brides that have one parent who is a Brahmin...some of my hybrid relatives get such proposals becos they want a person who allow them to be veg.

 

[renuka]

Dear RR ji,

A sibling of mine married a muslim from a different race as I think you know..initially all of us were upset but in getting to know her I feel my sister in law is a gem of a person...she has admirable qualities that even I totally lack.

I guess finally we only marry the person we are destined to.

As the saying goes..Karma and Takdir.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

BTW most hybrids prefer to marry a hybrid..that is what I did!LOL

Reason is full breeds seem a bit too traditional.

Often, it is claimed that today's youngsters go for inter-caste marriages because they want to be freed from the shackles of tradition, orthodoxy etc. There have been umpteen thread on IC/IR marriages and this claim is almost always made. However what we understand from Krish's post is that when the IC/IR couple become parents, they demand that they be allowed to choose a bride or groom from either community for their children. Isn't that hypocritical? Or is it a result of late realization or yearning to be a part of the community they once denounced or rejected?

 

[Raji Ram]

In umpteen threads we have discussed about I C and I R weddings. But this one is to find out how many of our members support them!

 

[கால பைரவன்]

In umpteen threads we have discussed about I C and I R weddings. But this one is to find out how many of our members support them!

Raji Mam, Don't you think a suitably worded poll would suit this purpose better? Not that I object to this thread or anything, but I feel there is very little fresh thoughts or inputs here. Same aracha maavu...

 

[Raji Ram]

If a brahmin lady is married a guy from other caste or religion, she wants to hunt for a spouse for her son / daughter from a

brahmin community! I have heard one such mom tell her daughter, 'Lovvu paNNinAlum brahmananAp pAththup paNNudi!'