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Iit, iit....

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Shivkc sir,

Please share your views. As you can see, every member who has contributed to this thread has shared valuable info. My thanks to all of them. I wish to see more from them and others.

Here is a nice story for Mr. Siva (both Haridasa and Shiv K.C) :)

Once I was traveling to Chennai by train. There were two bespectacled persons sitting in the opposite berth.

All along they were discussing something which I knew not under the sun. I used to think that I can at least recognize what people talk about and may be add some interesting info to it. But this time I felt completely deflated. Then a brainwave occurred to me.

I asked them, "Gentlemen are you by any chance for I.I.T?" Their faces lit up that someone recognized their real identity even without being told.

They beamed at me and asked in unison,"How on earth did you find it out?"

They least expected the reply I gave them - but grinned all the same on hearing it.

I told them, "I have two sons studying in I.I.T. When they talk, they talk jargon which even I can't understand. So it made me guess correctly!"

They gave me their visiting cards and invited me to their houses. But my elder son discouraged the idea (for whatever reasons he thought best) when I took up this topic with him.

So I did not actually call on them - even though I really wished to.
 
My elder son studied E.E.E. in the 1988-1992 batch.

My younger son studied E.E.E. in the 1991-1995 batch.

Is there anyone here from any of those two batches??? :ear:
 
.........They gave me their visiting cards and invited me to their houses. But my elder son discouraged the idea (for whatever reasons he thought best) when I took up this topic with him. ......
Great! :peace:

He knew that a visiting card is only to be stored to refer the address and phone number

and it is NOT an invitation to visit them! :becky:
 
dear Raji,
Printed Invitation is handed out only when there is celebration and not for informal visits!!!
Do you remember the great Gollapudi who carried packs of visiting cards with him
and gave them out like the chuNdal viniyogam after a bhajan - during all his train journeys??
Well, these two jargon professors gave their cards only to me with sincere invitation to visit them.
 
......... Well, these two jargon professors gave their cards only to me with sincere invitation to visit them.
WOW! But I consider that visiting cards are only for calling over phone.

Train 'snegitham' ends after the journey in most of the cases!! :cool:

P.S: Even if I invite forum friends to visit Ram and me, most of them escape!!
 
Folks,

I went to a 'moffussil' college in my home town. Did not get a good education. But by God's grace, was able to do okay in academics in USA. When I came here in the early seventies, only the top Universities like MIT/CalTech/Stanford/U.Penn. etc. who had strong engineering programs knew about the standards of IIT then. Not too many top flight Liberal Arts/Management schools knew much about them (Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth etc.). It all changed in the eighties and the nineties. Now even the third tier colleges in USA know about the IITs.

Pandit Nehru Ji, made many bad decisions for a young India (by the way, not out of not loving India, but out of intellectual thoughts that would prove to be wrong later), but his sponsorship of the IITs was brilliant. India, as a brand name, nowadays, rests on the unvarnished and untainted meritocracy that was projected by these institutions.

As Sri Kunjuppu Ji rightly said, folks that succeeded fabulously in life that came out of IIT would have done so graduating from anywhere; the same can be said about the graduates of any famed institutions in the world. But I differ with Sri Kunjuppu Ji in this one respect. IITs were above corruption in their admissions (I don't know how it is in today's India), and so established a gold standard for the meritocracy. More importantly, they established a merit based model in a country that otherwise was engrossed in social engineering at the cost of merit in the arena of higher learning.

I know other institutions may have come up to the IIT standards in India, or IITs may have slipped down to their levels, but one can not deny the huge impact these institutions have played to the positive image of Indians as hard working intellectuals abroad. I think the IIMs owe a huge amount of gratitude to the IITs for paving the way towards them being recognized as worthy institutions across the globe. In a global economy, this is a great advantage for India.

Personally, I can not stand the chauvinistic attitudes expressed by my many IITian friends about their education (Sri Kunjuppu Ji excepted, of course), but then, considering my own education, they usually have a point! :)

Regards,
KRS
 
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I second you sir Sri K.R.S!

Finally we become what we were

destined to become in life

I.I.T or no I.I.T :decision:

good education or no so good education :decision:

English medium or Tamil medium :decision:

multiple degrees of minimal education!!! :decision:
 
When someone suggested that my elder son should appear for I.A.S Exam he replied immediately,

"I do not want to salute, humor and soap the illiterate people to whom I may have to report!"

True. Politics is the ONLY profession where education may actually be a hindrance and

personal integrity a hurdle for progressing satisfactorily in the chosen field.
 
Folks,

I went to a 'moffussil' college in my home town. Did not get a good education. But by God's grace, was able to do okay in academics in USA. When I came here in the early seventies, only the top Universities like MIT/CalTech/Stanford/U.Penn. etc. who had strong engineering programs knew about the standards of IIT then. Not too many top flight Liberal Arts/Management schools knew much about them (Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth etc.). It all changed in the eighties and the nineties. Now even the third tier colleges in USA know about the IITs.

Pandit Nehru Ji, made many bad decisions for a young India (by the way, not out of not loving India, but out of intellectual thoughts that would prove to be wrong later), but his sponsorship of the IITs was brilliant. India, as a brand name, nowadays, rests on the unvarnished and untainted meritocracy that was projected by these institutions.

As Sri Kunjuppu Ji rightly said, folks that succeeded fabulously in life that came out of IIT would have done so graduating from anywhere; the same can be said about the graduates of any famed institutions in the world. But I differ with Sri Kunjuppu Ji in this one respect. IITs were above corruption in their admissions (I don't know how it is in today's India), and so established a gold standard for the meritocracy. More importantly, they established a merit based model in a country that otherwise was engrossed in social engineering at the cost of merit in the arena of higher learning.

I know other institutions may have come up to the IIT standards in India, or IITs may have slipped down to their levels, but one can not deny the huge impact these institutions have played to the positive image of Indians as hard working intellectuals abroad. I think the IIMs owe a huge amount of gratitude to the IITs for paving the way towards them being recognized as worthy institutions across the globe. In a global economy, this is a great advantage for India.

Personally, I can not stand the chauvinistic attitudes expressed by my many IITian friends about their education (Sri Kunjuppu Ji excepted, of course), but then, considering my own education, they usually have a point! :)

Regards,
KRS

Sri KRS ji

I resonate with your points.

I went to an ordinary high school (mostly Tamil and often TB kids). I came in touch with many of my classmates after several decades and I was so happy to see that they *all* had excelled in life - even those that failed the school final exam first time they tried.

My IIT/Kanpur classmates have done extremely well too but on average I cannot tell the difference between how well my highschool friends did in life and my IIT classmates.

I guess education is a lifelong activity and those that persevered have found career they wanted regardless of how they started in life during their high school and college days.

During my high school days a few kids used to smoke cigarettes secretly of course. Generally they straightened out later in life though they kept their habits intact.

In my IIT class some students tended to drink and do drugs and cut classes , and cheat in exams etc. They straightened out too in terms of career though they tended to keep their habits even in later life :-)

In the end there was a hunger to succeed in life in terms of achieving a career for those that went to school with me. That had more influence than what we all started out in terms of our initial college - be it IIT or otherwise.
 
ref # 59 by Sri. tks

I guess education is a lifelong activity and those that persevered have found career they wanted regardless of how they started in life during their high school and college days.


You are absolutely correct sir. I member how my old father , a doctor practicing in a small village,

used to keep abreast with the latest developments in medicine by reading the medical journlas.

He was 100% in his diagnosis - with no special equipments.

Even the specialists at Coimbatore, to whom he refereed his patients for their satisfaction, used to

wonder at the accuracy of the diagnosis on an old doctor placed in a small village.

I myself have learned more after I left my educational institution than when I was in them.

Life is one continuous process of education, experiments, evolution and excelling!
 
There is no lack of motivation for IIT's...In the 60's -70's getting a Engineering seat for a TamBrahm was a herculean task because of communal GO in Tamilnadu...Probably out of 10 aspirants 2-3 got it in the Government colleges (Guindy , AC Tech, REC Trichy and PSG Tech )and a smaller percentage would get in to IIT’s

Those denied admission applied for AMIE...Many ended up being CA's....I know a distant relative from my Tanjore village was denied admission in REC Trichy despite scoring good marks in PUC because of the communal GO.....He is now a CFO of an Engineering house.

In view of the high reservations in Government colleges the only alternative for a sound Engineering education was IIT...There were many persons who tried more than once to get in to IIT.....It was the promised utopian land (institution) that every Tambrahm used to aspire for

After the opening up of private engineering colleges in the 80's & 90's & continuing even now, the inspiration (1%) is still there..But perspiration (99%) is missing...And hordes of students are landing up in US after studying in the likes of SRM, SSN or Sastra..So the craze to enter IIT is no more there at least among the Tambrahms…The Tambrahms are replaced by the Andhra elite.

IIT Madras, which was considered as the citadel for meritocracy is now getting choked now with 50% reservations…But all is not last…It is still considered as top notch Engineering education in India..Understand they are doing stellar Research work..Hope it continues to maintain its Premier status!
 

There was one better wing and one bitter wing when my son studied in I I T (M)

There were bad habits even among I I T students who are supposed to be the cream of Indian students!! :sad:
 

There was one better wing and one bitter wing when my son studied in I I T (M)

There were bad habits even among I I T students who are supposed to be the cream of Indian students!! :sad:

i have been brought up to think like raji above re 'bad habits', 'cream of ..'. the formula being, that you be goody two shoes, avoid girls, keep your nose to the grindstone - and you will be automatically rewarded.

the corollary of the above, is that, failure to follow the regimen, would automatically mean poor grades, expulsion and excommunication.

when none of this happened in iit of my time, i was shocked. the sandhy saying tambram boys, though some did well, did not really top the class. the drug smoking tambrams (yes these were there too) did not necessarily fail, and many of them did better than their orthodox brethren.

i am not endorsing the drug culture but in those days, when a பொட்டலம் of grass was 25 paise, and only as far away as the institute walls bordering the then taramani village, there was a good group of crackheads, approximately 10% of the batch ie about 25 students.

it would be wrong to say that these two groups did not mix. for these could be your neighbours or your lab mates or ones with whom you shared assignments or class notes. as vgane has observed in another post, this was not an indication of how they fared in life.

the most successful ones were not the gold or silver medal winners. many a student, got his primary wind ie the will to succeed only after graduation. add to it, the area of his choice, the country and above a little luck, all contributed to 'success' in whatever form you define. but i would say about 1% 'failed' meaning they did not make it to the comfortable upper class life. in these you find, the misfortunes piled - personal or professional wise, and these are a telling lesson, that no matter how good a youth you have, bad things can happen to unsettle and bring you down. :(

i do not know whether the andhra 'elite' are any better in their outlook of life. all i was told, is that today's iit students, are the mass products of these coaching institute machines, and even if they are opted for civil engineering, their optional courses of choice are all related to computer software and hardware, and all they are looking to, is a one way ticket to usa. i dont know if this is still true, but a few years ago, iits were the only institutes outside of north america, where microsoft recruited with only a phone interview, and your H1B visa/plane ticket was couriered even before you graduated :)

i think the iits have a long way to go. an institution's fame is not built on its undergraduates. it is based on the research papers and innovative thinking that it seeds. it is based on the brand name faculites that it is able to attract and keep. it is based on its cohesion and identity in the community where it is situated - the town and the gown phenomenon, which i think, is almost unknown in india.

so till all of the above happens, any talk of iit being the premier institute and cream of the crops, i think, is all, in comparison to oxford stanford mit or harvard, is but an empty boast. it may gladden a few parents' hearts (and even a ticket for premium dowry in andhra. and provide brag material, but that too only within a circle that is not familiar with the world at large and what makes a great institution. but all in all, the quality of the post graduate work and output of all the iits in india, are not even, to the level of tata institutes, bangalore or bombay. unless someone tells me otherwise.

as a community, we have not missed our absence in iits. our children are still going in large numbers, with one way tickets, to far off places, or to nearby singapore. many are even doing undergrad studies in these places. so, for us, the glory of iits has passed.

R.I.P.
 
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Folks,

I went to a 'moffussil' college in my home town. Did not get a good education. But by God's grace, was able to do okay in academics in USA.,
KRS

AND

Sri KRS ji

I resonate with your points.

I went to an ordinary high school (mostly Tamil and often TB kids). I came in touch with many of my classmates after several decades and I was so happy to see that they *all* had excelled in life - even those that failed the school final exam first time they tried.

Gentlemen

By all accounts you have been more successful than others in your career front and your school/college did play some part in your success.

Are the school or college no more in existence? Is there a reluctance to name the institution? It would be a welcome change to hear about other institutions than the Bhajanai of IITs.
 
ref # 59 by Sri. tks

I guess education is a lifelong activity and those that persevered have found career they wanted regardless of how they started in life during their high school and college days.


You are absolutely correct sir. I member how my old father , a doctor practicing in a small village,

used to keep abreast with the latest developments in medicine by reading the medical journlas.

He was 100% in his diagnosis - with no special equipments.

Even the specialists at Coimbatore, to whom he refereed his patients for their satisfaction, used to

wonder at the accuracy of the diagnosis on an old doctor placed in a small village.

I myself have learned more after I left my educational institution than when I was in them.

Life is one continuous process of education, experiments, evolution and excelling!


dear visa,

there must have been an immense satisfaction in life for your dad to choose to practise in a village. what made him to do that? even today with so many a faclilities, doctors are reluctant even to practise in tier 2 or tier 3 cities. forget the villages.

i guess you must have hundreds of stories as villages are often close knit, across castes and creeds - the fact that they live close and interdependent on each other, for one thing or the other. your father, must have been the only doctor, if not for miles, atleast in the neighbourhood. along with it, i presume you and your siblings, got recognition, privileges and respect. no?

would love to hear your dad's story - where he grew up studied and why the village to practise his profession. in some ways, he reminds me of dr. krishnamurthi, the yaanai doctor/. dedicated, well loved but could not care less for government recognition.
 

Dear Kunjuppu Sir,

You have been reading 'vaNNa vaNNa manithargaL' right from the beginning and I have written about my dad.

Here is a part of a post:

"பர்மாவில் தங்கப் பதக்கத்துடன் மருத்துவப் பட்டம் பெற்று, ராணுவ டாக்டராகச் சேர்ந்து,

இரண்டாம் உலகப் போர் சமயம் இந்தியாவுக்கு நடையாய் நடந்து வந்து, சேலத்தில்

டாக்டர் ராஜாராம் அவர்களின் உதவி டாக்டராகச் சேர்ந்தார். மலைப் பாதைகளைக் கடந்து

வந்தபோது, வழியில் மூங்கில் அரிசியைச் சேகரித்து, அதைச் சமைத்துச் சாப்பிட்டதைக்

கேட்கும்போது, கதை போலவே தோன்றும்! சேலத்தில் தண்ணீர் தட்டுப்பாட்டை

அனுபவித்ததில், வேறு ஊர் மாற எண்ணம் ஏற்பட்டதாம்! ஆனைமலை என்ற ஊரில்,

மருத்துவர் தேவை என்று அறிந்ததும், அப்பா கேட்ட ஒரே கேள்வி, 'அந்த ஊரில் தண்ணீர்

நல்லாக் கிடைக்குமா?' என்பதே. வற்றாத ஆளியாறு ஓடுவதை அறிந்ததும் இடம்

பெயர்ந்தாராம்! தன் தொழில் மீது அத்தனை உறுதியான நம்பிக்கை கொண்டவர்."

From
வண்ண வண்ண மனிதர்கள்!

OK.... Now the answers for other Qs:

would love to hear your dad's story - where he grew up studied and why the village to practice his profession
He grew up in Burma with his three younger brothers since grandpa was working in accounts dept! After his schooling,

grandpa was on the way to join him in BA (Maths) but a friend advised him to join him in medical college! So grandpa did!

Since dad had the scholarship, he could
continue his studies in any college! Thus he got his M B B S degree with first rank in

the univ. Then he joined the military as Capt. K. N. Raman.


My mother's dad was a doctor too and eldest mAmA was junior to dad in that college. Noticing the intelligence of my dad,

mAmA wanted his sister to get married to dad! They got 'swami uththarvu' with red flower (no horoscope match) and got

wedded! Soon the second world war started and mom's family flew back to India, whereas dad had to accompany a troupe

of soldiers and WALK to India! After a tough journey, loosing lot of wight he came back to India. Worked in Ranchi for some

time where my eldest sister was born. Then he came to settle in Selam to join as junior to Dr. Rajaram. Dad was taking care

of his parents and three brothers till the brothers got married. There was acute shortage of water in Selam and dad wanted

to shift the family. V R and my brother were born in Selam.


Meanwhile my eldest mAmA, now an ENT surgeon, started practicing in Pollachi and got to know about Anaimalai village, with

a nice river ALiyAr - never faced water shortage for many many years. There was one surgeon Dr. T. D. Nair and one more

RMP (registered medical practitioner) who was a Govt. doctor! So, my dad was the third doctor for that small village. He had

lot of confidence in himself and hence shifted soon to that village! Hmmmmm. Then me and my cute younger sister were

added to the family! We siblings were educated in Anaimalai board high school and the continued higher studies in the nearby

colleges. Dad lost his mother in Selam. Our grandpa was our friend, philosopher, guide and music Guru!

Of course dad was considered next to God by our villagers and we were special kids too (doctor piLLaigaL!!) :grouphug:
 
I took the liberty of answering Kunjuppu Sir's queries because Sis is busy with making her blogs! :typing:
 
hi K sir,


and only as far away as the institute walls bordering the then taramani village, there was a good group of crackheads, approximately 10% of the batch ie about 25 students.


i used to stay for taramani village for more than one year...even my friend bought a home in taramani....i used to go by iit bus from

adayar to taramani through iit campus....the back gate of iit was taramani village....i remember some stories in those days...

i dont remember properly... alakananda/mandakini hostel is very close to taramani....now modern taramani/velachery is

entirely different.....there is no village anymore....
 
AND



Gentlemen

By all accounts you have been more successful than others in your career front and your school/college did play some part in your success.

Are the school or college no more in existence? Is there a reluctance to name the institution? It would be a welcome change to hear about other institutions than the Bhajanai of IITs.

My school has deteriorated. In Delhi there are a number of schools in many locations popularly known those days as Madrasi School. Many of the Delhi state ranks were held by toppers in the class. The students - mostly TB types - were children of Government employees and immigrants to Delhi from the south.

Eventually I understood that the Tamil Nadu government and its corrupt party members ended up taking over the management of the schools. Today the failure rate is about 40% which is unheard of during the time I was in high school. The board is corrupt to the core from what I understand. The quota system has killed an otherwise fine institution.

Some of us wanted to donate (which many of us did) but it is useless. There are many alumni who are in powerful positions but they are unable to do anything.

I
 

There was one better wing and one bitter wing when my son studied in I I T (M)

There were bad habits even among I I T students who are supposed to be the cream of Indian students!! :sad:

Some excelled even in bad habits. Those that came from boarding schools to IIT/K (rich parents who could afford such schools) even used to visit brothels in Kanpur which is unimaginable. One of my classmates used to do that - CEO of his own enterprise today, never married .. nice, and compassionate person otherwise. Once he came to USA he stopped visits to brothels :-)

There is belief among south indian families that high character is equated to doing well in terms of grades. That is not true all the time though true some of the time.
There is another belief that a person doing drugs or go to brothels is a bad person - That is not always true either. Some who engaged in such self destructive activities were actually trustworthy and compassionate in my minimal experience of dealing with a few people.
 
......... There is belief among south indian families that high character is equated to doing well in terms of grades. That is not true all the time though true some of the time.
Dear Sir,

I did not say that good character assures good studies! One wing was 'bitter' because those boys used to smoke and drink.

A few of them used 'drugs' to certain extent but were NOT addicts. The boys from 'better wing' were friendly with the others

but kept their distance too since some of us still consider 'drinking' and some 'other' habits as vices!! :)
 
i think the iits have a long way to go. an institution's fame is not built on its undergraduates. it is based on the research papers and innovative thinking that it seeds. it is based on the brand name faculites that it is able to attract and keep. it is based on its cohesion and identity in the community where it is situated - the town and the gown phenomenon, which i think, is almost unknown in india.

so till all of the above happens, any talk of iit being the premier institute and cream of the crops, i think, is all, in comparison to oxford stanford mit or harvard, is but an empty boast. it may gladden a few parents' hearts (and even a ticket for premium dowry in andhra. and provide brag material, but that too only within a circle that is not familiar with the world at large and what makes a great institution. but all in all, the quality of the post graduate work and output of all the iits in india, are not even, to the level of tata institutes, bangalore or bombay. unless someone tells me otherwise.
R.I.P.

Dear Sir,

I am giving 2 evidences to support IIT Madras:
1. IITM Research contribution:
Research powers IIT-M to world's top 150 institutes
TNN May 14, 2013, 04.20AM IST

CHENNAI: Indian Institute of Technology-Madras has made strident steps towards improving its academic reputation. It has been ranked among the world's top 150 institutes in seven subjects in the recently released QS World University Rankings by Subject.
Bettering its performance from last year when it featured between 60th and 70th ranks, IIT-M's civil and structural engineering course ranked 46th this year. Chemical engineering, electrical engineering and mechanical engineering courses are between the 51st and 100th places, while the computer science and information systems department, materials science and mathematics departments feature between the 101st and 150th ranks.

The by-subject rankings are based on academic reputation, employer reputation, citations per faculty, faculty-student ratio, proportion of international students and proportion of international faculty.
"It is a result of intensifying research, increasing faculty recruitment, increasing output and funding for research. We are moving in the right direction," said director Bhaskar Ramamurthi.
Academics are proud IITs achieved these rankings despite having negligible international faculty and students, which has substantial weightage in determining the ranking. The funding levels of several universities ranked below the IITs are many times higher. Besides, the contributions of IITs to Indian industry, space and defence sectors are not accounted for in these rankings, they said.
For these rankings, QS Intelligence Unit (QSIU) — a division of QS Quacquarelli Symonds, an international higher education data-research firm — evaluated 2,858 universities and ranked 678 institutions
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-05-14/news/39255469_1_iits-qs-world-university-rankings-faculty

2. IITM ranks best in India in Data Quest Ranking of Engg. Institutions - DQ-CMR T-Schools Survey 2012: Nurturing India's Top Tech Talent - Dataquest

I am impressed with these...But still a long way to go ...How about you?
 
My school has deteriorated. In Delhi there are a number of schools in many locations popularly known those days as Madrasi School. Many of the Delhi state ranks were held by toppers in the class. The students - mostly TB types - were children of Government employees and immigrants to Delhi from the south.

Eventually I understood that the Tamil Nadu government and its corrupt party members ended up taking over the management of the schools. Today the failure rate is about 40% which is unheard of during the time I was in high school. The board is corrupt to the core from what I understand. The quota system has killed an otherwise fine institution.

Some of us wanted to donate (which many of us did) but it is useless. There are many alumni who are in powerful positions but they are unable to do anything.

I

Interesting. I am from MEA school in Delhi. Which branch did you pass out from?

K. Kumar
 
Dear Sir,

I am giving 2 evidences to support IIT Madras:
1. IITM Research contribution:
Research powers IIT-M to world's top 150 institutes
TNN May 14, 2013, 04.20AM IST

CHENNAI: Indian Institute of Technology-Madras has made strident steps towards improving its academic reputation. It has been ranked among the world's top 150 institutes in seven subjects in the recently released QS World University Rankings by Subject.
Bettering its performance from last year when it featured between 60th and 70th ranks, IIT-M's civil and structural engineering course ranked 46th this year. Chemical engineering, electrical engineering and mechanical engineering courses are between the 51st and 100th places, while the computer science and information systems department, materials science and mathematics departments feature between the 101st and 150th ranks.

The by-subject rankings are based on academic reputation, employer reputation, citations per faculty, faculty-student ratio, proportion of international students and proportion of international faculty.
"It is a result of intensifying research, increasing faculty recruitment, increasing output and funding for research. We are moving in the right direction," said director Bhaskar Ramamurthi.
Academics are proud IITs achieved these rankings despite having negligible international faculty and students, which has substantial weightage in determining the ranking. The funding levels of several universities ranked below the IITs are many times higher. Besides, the contributions of IITs to Indian industry, space and defence sectors are not accounted for in these rankings, they said.
For these rankings, QS Intelligence Unit (QSIU) — a division of QS Quacquarelli Symonds, an international higher education data-research firm — evaluated 2,858 universities and ranked 678 institutions
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-05-14/news/39255469_1_iits-qs-world-university-rankings-faculty

2. IITM ranks best in India in Data Quest Ranking of Engg. Institutions - DQ-CMR T-Schools Survey 2012: Nurturing India's Top Tech Talent - Dataquest

I am impressed with these...But still a long way to go ...How about you?

thanks vgane for your info.

i dont know about the 'impression', but it is a good start, i think. :)
 
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