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Iit, iit....

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Here is an article where teachers help students (in Chennai -free of cost) prepare to take competitive exams
(One of the teachers is a close relative of mine!)
Sunday, science and success | The Hindu

Mr. Narayanamurthy (info sys) did his MTech at IIT Kanpur - Here is a link to his M Tech Thesis (His adviser obtained his M. tech and Ph D from IIT/K).

PICTURE PROCESSING USING TOROIDS., 1990010090075. N R NARAYANA

MURTHY. 1970. english. TECHNOLOGY. 93 pgs. (The link is in tif format - You can read it in explorer 8, firefox (in linux) or in safari)

Digital Library of India, IISc

Prof. Manindra Agarwal ( B Tech, M Tech, Ph D all from IIT Kanpur) did a ground breaking on the polynomial time algorithm for primality testing. (Prof. Agrwal's Ph D thesis adviser also got his M. tech and Ph. D. from IIT Kanpur)

New Method Said to Solve Key Problem In Math - NYTimes.com

Prof. Ashoke Sen (M . Sc IIT Kanpur) was the winner of 3 million dollar award last year.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/31/s...n-yuri-milners-fundamental-physics-prize.html
Here are some caveats

I know these accomplishments are all few and far between. Brilliant minds are not restricted only to IIT's.
 
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... Brilliant minds are not restricted only to IIT's.

i tend to agree with you. the only advantages, afaik, is that the iits have well equipped labs and facilities. in my days, there used to be abundant central govt funding.

in my days also, there was not this hype on IITs, so that today, to me atleast, it is so embarassing, whenever i get introduced as 'went to IIT'.

i see people who went to harvard cambridge oxford stanford mit univ of chicago all the time. there is no hype there and only modesty. one has to pry such info from them. but apparently it is just the reverse for iit. definitely not the right approach. i think.
 
Dear Sri zebra16 Ji,

A fair comment. I do not want to name the college involved as I have already said that I did not get a high standard of education there. It is a well known institution in my town, even today, and I do my best to help them in various ways.

I would say that today the standards have gone down even further, with the professors there claiming that they have to admit all the 'uneducated' high schoolers from the surrounding villages. Instead of trying to pull up these students from their low academic qualifications with make up classes, they try to justify their lazyness by saying that this is the problem with these youth. So they are graduating an uneducated lot, who can not stand on their own in a competetive world. I read a doctoral thesis when I visited and I could not believe that such work would be approved as a doctoral thesis, even with outside academics from a reputed schhols on the thesis committee.

The reason I got admitted to good schools in USA (not the top schools) with financial ride, despite my education in India was because of a strange phenomenon of demand/supply in Physics at these colleges then. China has not opened up yet, and only Taiwan and India could supply students especially in Physics during those times in volume, when Americans stopped pursuing higher studies in Physics, but the demand for research and teaching assistants remained. So, there were openings for folks like me, who have secured first classes in exams, and were offered admission and aid on the basis of recommendations from any Indian born professors in any discipline teaching at these schools. They gave their nod to major Universities (in my case, University of Madras) and not a particular college.

The way me and my friend even picked USA Universities to apply was based on them waiving the application fee (we got a list of these schools from USIS in Madras). That is how we were able to apply, even though the postal rates were very high for sending them by airmail. We managed it somehow.

I had one decent Physics teacher who would teach the 'physics' behind the theory and equations out of more than a dozen in the department. The rest would literally 'read' the respective books on subjects verbatim. Their english communication skills were poor, and they communicated in 'mani pravalam', so that the students can understand. I do not blame them, the system was set up like that.

As I recounted elsewhere, when I landed in USA my spoken english was atrocious, my subject level was at best at a sophomoric level of a US Uni standard. Unfortunately (or fortunately as it would turn out later), my first three courses in USA were taught by the same Professor, with a heavy Okalhoma accent. Being required to make at least a 'B' in these classes to keep my fellowship where I was only one of two new grad students, rest are experienced grad students, as well as advanced Seniors, I just did not know how I was going to succeed. The subject matters were all above my head, and I could not understand most of what my Professor was saying, so I could not even take proper notes.

Gathering my courage, I went to him and told him my dilemma (not about me not understanding the SM level), and he graciously gave his time to explain to me after class if I did not understand anything at all and he slowed his teaching speech considerably so I could follow. He could have very easily shown his back to me, but he did not. To this day, I always feel a sense of gratitude to him, because he allowed me to succeed. From then onwards, I made use of the great American system of putting in enough work per class not only to learn the SM taught, but also to go back and firm up my foundation, which I was lacking.

This is what I try to convey to those in my college every time I go there. But there is little change. All these years only a handful got admissions abroad, even applied, and my friend and I were the first ones to go abroad for graduate education.

By the way, my High School education was an adventure by itself, all because of myself and my activities. Story for another time.

As I look back, it is easy to take credit on any successes I have had in this life by myself. Close examinations however reveals that I was at the right place at the right time, aided by numerous kind hearted folks, and all this point to His grace. It could have easily turned the other way, but it did not. And that is the point.

Regards,
KRS


AND



Gentlemen

By all accounts you have been more successful than others in your career front and your school/college did play some part in your success.

Are the school or college no more in existence? Is there a reluctance to name the institution? It would be a welcome change to hear about other institutions than the Bhajanai of IITs.
 
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Dear Sir,

I did not say that good character assures good studies! One wing was 'bitter' because those boys used to smoke and drink.

A few of them used 'drugs' to certain extent but were NOT addicts. The boys from 'better wing' were friendly with the others

but kept their distance too since some of us still consider 'drinking' and some 'other' habits as vices!! :)

Smt Raji
I understood your point and yes, you did not say good character assures good studies.
However in many south indian families people tend to think (at least in my experience) the opposite - good grades means good character also !

Vice means moral fault - which means there is a norm to which an act is judged as right or wrong. This varies from society to society and one place to another.

While many may not agree with me (and I do not have any habits that may be termed vice) I tend to think that if someone is not causing harm to others either by action or words or by their thinking then in my book they are fine. If they have self destructive habits then they need help if they want help - because they are harming themselves.
 
dear tks,

re your post #80,

i always tell my kids, that good grades in school, can cover a lot of sins.

parents, even here, in canada, indian parents that is, only look at the marks. if that is good, what the kids do, they are unable to influence or even monitor. the pat answer, 'i am doing well in school aren't i?' is show stopper :) to all further query or investigation.

you are absolutely right, that the straight and narrow path of virtue, is not a guarantee to anything, but boredom and dullness - if you did not mean it that way, then consider it my view, as i do not want to hijack your original thinking ;)

a classmate of mine, parents far away from madras, used to live with relatives, had always minimum 100 rupees (1960s era) in his pocket, used to gamble smoke drink tambram. and came first in school for the board certificate. and did extremely well later - iit and usa.

another, this one a relative of mine, came literally last, in his B.E. at annamalai and switched a few jobs. what was going for him, was a good personality and ability to make relationships. soon he was the boss of a refinery when he was still in his early 30s. and before him came an application for a junior engineer. yes. from the nerdy gold medal winner of his class. sure enough my relative hired him, and for him, it was a constant brag point, and show off highlight for any visitors touring his plant.

incidentally, the gold medalist, also a tambram, was jobless for a long time - no personality and could not handle an interview. sooooo, it takes a lot more to succeed in life, than just marks.
 
IIT entrance is testing of concepts through application...It is not the end of it...For Engineering/Technology education it is fine.....It has to be embellished by Practical training/holistic development of skills for flowering in any environment (Corporate/Government or Research)

You need to be a good communicator if you want to shine in the Corporate world...You should have basic leadership skills or managing a team...Basic Project Management skills should also be taught

You can create small modules along these lines in partnership/ collaboration with Industry bodies/ Veterans & get these covered in the undergraduate courses

I know many IIT'ians who are languishing in the Corporate world outsmarted by the Punjus who are street smart

IIT is not a panacea but it can only be a stepping stone...Education combined with honing the above skills will go a long way in creating success stories
 
Having seen quite a few (not so nice (at least as I see it - I wish I am wrong)) posts about nerds, I think it is not wrong/bad to be a nerd. Not all of them can be suave looking, smooth talking people. I have known a quite few such "nerd/geek" as students, colleagues and friends. They are some of the nicest and sincere people I have ever known. They go out of the way to help, to be useful to society (albeit in their own idiosyncratic way). After all, one has to be thankful to these people for propelling the world in technological advancement. They may not be the CEO's, they may not come in front pages of newspapers and they do not appear in TV. They may not succeed by the yardstick of the society (they do not care). But they are still more valuable than most people.

moorthy,

if you mean my posts, sir, do not take any remark as insult. it is ok to disagree with it. i could be wrong. so provide counter arguements politely.

to tell you the truth, i am a nerd. i was brought up thus, and would always envy the guys who had self confidence and the freedom to express themselves. the values imbibed in me, was study study study, no play, no girls, no girl thoughts (created havoc when i was a teen), no vetti pecchu (which in fact developed interpersonal skills and network building)....

there is a lot we have to understand, that a nerd today, does not have the proper werewithals to deal with reality of life. a good muscular body and good dressing, instills so much confidence. why should you get upset, when i point out the handicaps that we equip our chidlren, in the name of 'good'ness?

what does 'valuable' mean by your terminology? vgane (#83) has indicated what it takes to succeed. do you want to shun that advice, because it is anti nerd. please think through and give some thought. give the sons especially place to grow to be himself and a confident individual. nerdism is not good..under any circumstances. worse still, no girl today wants to marry a nerd. :)

ps..you have the mistaken impression that the nerds are the ones who are propelling the world into high technology. have you seen the management of google or microsoft? pretty panache driven and great public speakers, these. including my nephew, who manages 100 nerds in redmond :). the reality is that nerds are never the leaders.
 
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I deleted that post of mine (I know being a nerd is NOT a cool thing). Here is a boston globe article - with a link to a book that is worth looking at it.
A manifesto in defense of nerd values - The Boston Globe

moorthy,

you missed my point. it is not the 'cool' effect i am talking about. i am talking of survival skills and ability to rise up to your full potential. nerdism detracts and prevents growth. the only people who are proud of nerds are the nerd's parents - who brought him thus, to keep him under their control.
 
Nerd children are under the control of parent are not true in most cases (that I am familiar with). Nerds are as rebellious as any one else (after all they are intelligent enough to know to think on their own). They are not under any ones control. These are all misconceptions (or in nerd parlance illegal induction argument - based on a few sample cases).

This paragraph from Boston Globe article is worth reading:

"The author goes as far as to suggest the bias against nerds may be the nation's next civil rights struggle. Racist and anti-gay epithets, once common, are routinely condemned by parents and kids. Yet Anderegg rightly points out that parents' anxieties about technology are projected onto their kids' brainiac classmates. It's acceptable, he writes, "to communicate to our kids that people who are smart and do well in school and like science fiction and computers are also people who smell bad and look ugly and are so repulsive that they are not allowed to have girlfriends. And then we wonder why it's so hard to motivate kids to do well in school."
 
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Nerd children are under the control of parent are not true in most cases (that I am familiar with). Nerds are as rebellious as any one else (after all they are intelligent enough to know to think on their own). They are not under any ones control. These are all misconceptions (or in nerd parlance illegal induction argument - based on a few sample cases).

nerds like any other kids rebel. except they have been nerds so long, that when they rebel, they dont have the werewithal to survive.

one example. in my class, this nerd tambram, only studies, mess and every evening temple. he went to usa and rebelled. he fell under the influence of rev moon and switched his god from krishna to jesus as described by rev moon. rev moon found him a korean wife who did not speak english. when i visited him, he was still a nerd, but of a different kind.

that is all i am saying. i am not denying the goodness or moral aspect. i am talking of real life. they are not equipped to handle today's world, and it is the parent's responsibility to provide opportunity and facility for a broad based growth of their sons. this problem is not there with the daughters. have you wondered why? i have. but i have no answers to it.

hope i am clear. pray do not misunderstand my intentions..as a nerd i am speaking this.
 
Sri Kunjuppu Sir,

Thanks for your clarification. I am not misunderstanding you. On the other hand, I do have to have tell students it is OK to be a nerd (technical wizardry) - Hopefully in due time (or in other courses) they learn life skills.

Moorthy
 
I am getting enlightened with all the posts in this forum.

By the way, here is a media report:


Though the qualification for the Assistant’s position, the lowest rung in mainline banking operations, is 12th class (with minimum 60 per cent aggregate marks) or a degree from a recognised university, SBI has managed to attract candidates with professional qualifications in computer engineering and business administration.
SBI is recruiting 20,682 new Assistants in FY2013 and more than 30 lakh candidates appeared for the test (145:1)
In the financial year ended March 31, 2013, SBI recruited 847 probationary officers. Seventeen lakh candidates applied for officers’ position (2007:1).

Like the OP, there are questions here as well.

1. Is unemployment so high in India? (It was 9.8% in 2012. The figures for our neighbouring countries are: Nepal: 46%, Afghanistan: 35%, China: 6.5%, Pakistan: 5.6%, Bangladesh: 5%, Sri Lanka and Bhutan: 4%). India is in the middle of the list of about 200 countries ranked on rate of unemployment.
2. Is under-employment a fact of life in India? What is the situation in the developed world?
3. Is it an attitude issue that people want to be employed in cozy jobs or socially (and of course financially) powerful jobs?
4. Do professionally qualified people just only have the qualification on a paper and not the real qualification?
5. Do people lack innovation/creativity/entrepreneurial skills? Or they do not have enough funding?

Once again, I am eager to know the views of our learned members.
 
dear siva,

re your post #91,

i really dont know what to believe in india. deep in my heart, i suspect, things are not as bad as they are made out to be, but not as good as what the government would like to claim.

there is a huge black money and underground economy, which calls the shots in many many areas - starting from real estate, often seen the backbone of any society. the black money here can be anywhere from 0 to 70 or 80% of the value of the property, the only thing certain is that NO real estate deal is 100% white cash. afaik.

then there are the huge bribe areas of movie star payments, and civil servants and politicians. as a percentage, they may be a small group, of the population, but the money spinned is i think, enough to influence the economy - how else can you explain, the crush of rush, in jewellery and silk sari stores, those high end points of visible consumption.

i heard that tomatoes at 150 rupees a kilo this week in chennai, but no tomato seller is dumping his goods for want of sales.

there is a huge job market by word of mouth. there is a huge job market on a cash only basis. and many such dealings, which bypass the tax man and deparment wholesale.

so here is a non scientific, prejudiced, unadultered guesses for your queries :)

1. Is unemployment so high in India? (It was 9.8% in 2012. The figures for our neighbouring countries are: Nepal: 46%, Afghanistan: 35%, China: 6.5%, Pakistan: 5.6%, Bangladesh: 5%, Sri Lanka and Bhutan: 4%). India is in the middle of the list of about 200 countries ranked on rate of unemployment. - DONT KNOW. BUT IT IS NOT CRITICAL ENOUGH TO RESULT IN STARVATION OF LARGE NUMBERS IE FAMINES THAT INDIA HAS SEEN OR SOCIAL UNREST LIKE TURKEY NOW

2. Is under-employment a fact of life in India? What is the situation in the developed world? - DONT KNOW. WOULD NOT BELIEVE ANY STATISTICS AS I THINK WE HAVE NOT DEVELOPED A COUNTRY WIDE RELIABLE METHOD OF GATHERING RELIABLE DATE; WESTERN WORLD I THINK, IS SLOWLY GOING IN THE DIRECTION OF UNDER EMPLOYMENT - BUT MOST OF THESE ARE COLOURED IMMIGRANTS. THE WHITES LOOK AFTER THEIR OWN THANKS TO CONTACTS (INCIDENTALLY A FAMILIAR CHARGE LEVELLED AGAINST THE TAMBRAMS BY DRAVIDIAN BLOGGERS WHO HAVE FAILED TO GET PLUM JOBS IN INFOSYS OR TATAS, NOTWITHSTANDING THE FACT THAT THE MAJORITY OF TAMILIANS IN THOSE COMPANIES NOW ARE NBS)

3. Is it an attitude issue that people want to be employed in cozy jobs or socially (and of course financially) powerful jobs? DONT KNOW

4. Do professionally qualified people just only have the qualification on a paper and not the real qualification? VAGUE QUESTION. DONT UNDERSTAND IT. I WENT TO IIT BUT CLAIM TO KNOW NOTHING. IS IT 'REAL QUALIFICATION' OR 'QUALIFICATION ON PAPER' FOR ME? I THINK IT IS ALL IN ONE'S ATTITUDE.

5. Do people lack innovation/creativity/entrepreneurial skills? Or they do not have enough funding? I WOULD SAY YES FOR THE FIRST. FOR THE SECOND, I AM NOT SO SURE, BECAUSE I THINK WHERE THERE IS A WILL, THERE IS A WAY.

haveagoodsouthafricanday.
 
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Thank you, K for your response.

It is surprising and disheartening to note that even developed world is moving towards underemployment.
I liked your comment about dravidian bloggers. It appears they want TBs to go the path of "भवति बिक्षान्देही" (pardon spelling mistake).
What I meant by 'paper qualification' is like an MBA having knowledge of only B.B.A., CA/ICWA having knowledge of only B.Com. BE/IIT having knowledge of only B.Sc. In other words, they pass their examination but are not good enough in real life.

I had a good SA day but the Proteas didn't. :deadhorse:
 
Dear Shri Haridas Siva,

There is a large under employment...In Tamil Nadu alone there are more than 1.75 lacs (growing every ear)graduating from 570 Engg colleges (as of Dec 2012) every year & only a small percentage 10-15% is employable in IT or hard core engineering

It has become more of a number game...The poor quality is also on account of poor engineering colleges which have mushroomed which lack proper facilities (well equipped labs, library, workshops etc) and the right faculty (qualified & experienced ones)

Also as shared by me in an earlier post in this thread there is no focus of developing a holistic personality of the engineers
 
Dear Shri Haridas Siva,

There is a large under employment...

Sir,
You must be meaning 'unemployment' because underemployment has a different meaning. Underemployment means having job but with nothing much to do. It is also called disguised unemployment.
 
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