IIT Madras resorts to life skills training to cut campus suicides

[vgane]

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This is stellar initiative by IIT Madras & needs to be supported by one and all...Hope this is a trend setter of sorts and other Institutes imbue this without delay


IIT resorts to life skills training to cut campus suicides
By Express News Service - CHENNAI
13th July 2013 08:14 AM
The Indian Institute of Technology -Madras is all set to introduce a life skills course for freshers from the current academic year, which will begin from July 29, in a bid to check the rising cases of campus suicides.
As many as five engineering students ended their lives at the institute’s Guindy campus between 2011 and 2012.
The rising number of suicides reported from different IITs in the country resulted in the Centre setting up the Ananthakrishnan Committee to study the phenomenon in all centrally-funded institutions and come up with measures for prevention, according to L S Ganesh, Dean of students, IIT-M.
“The committee came up with several interesting recommendations,” he said.
Ganesh, who was a member, said the panel specifically looked into what could be built as an institutionalised system to help students cope with difficult situations. “In this regard, IIT-Madras has come up with a new life skills course, which will be part of the curriculum at the entry-level from this academic year,” he pointed out.
Addressing a press conference with Lt Col Jayakumar, deputy registrar (training and placement), and M S Shivakumar, professor, department of applied mechanics, here on Friday, the dean said the objective of the course was to address two components that comprised a student’s IIT-M tenure: living and learning on campus.
“We want to make our country competitive. We want a healthy, vibrant and stimulated student community on our campus,” he said.
Pointing to the steady increase in the student strength in the institute from 3,000 in the 1980’s to about 8,000 now, he said 900 freshers had enrolled themselves for various programmes this year. Hailing from different parts of the country, they are in the 17+ age group and have prepared for a long time to do well in the entrance examinations. Students who were top rank-holders in their schools, now find that they have to compete with students as good as they are. Some of them are living separately from their families for the first time. “There is also a new-found freedom, which they do not know how to handle,” he said, explaining their difficulties.
High expectations from parents, gender and relationship issues and technological distractions were other factors that added to their stress, said Shivakumar, who is part of Mitr, the guidance and counselling unit of IIT-M. “They have not seen failure and do not know how to deal with it,” he said.
What started as workshops and seminars last year to cater to the needs of the students evolved into a formal life skills course this academic year, Ganesh said.
The course, comprising activities, projects and workshops, would be taught by experts from different fields during the first semester and assigned two credits (30 hours). It would cover three aspects of living: self-dependence, inter-dependence and independence. With a rise in the number of women students, focus would also be given to gender sensitisation, he added.

 

[sangom]

I don't think it will be possible to prevent suicidal tendencies of youngsters by adding some more activities, projects and workshops, to be taught by experts, etc. What is needed is to screen the applicants even before their admission to the course, by a panel of competent psychologists to find out whether each candidate exhibits tendency for suicide and then to bestow special care and attention on such students and also to confidentially inform the parents and or local guardian/s.

This is just adding some more credits and increasing the tension for the students.

It seems to me to be a foolish idea.

 

[vgane]

I don't think it will be possible to prevent suicidal tendencies of youngsters by adding some more activities, projects and workshops, to be taught by experts, etc. What is needed is to screen the applicants even before their admission to the course, by a panel of competent psychologists to find out whether each candidate exhibits tendency for suicide and then to bestow special care and attention on such students and also to confidentially inform the parents and or local guardian/s.

This is just adding some more credits and increasing the tension for the students.

It seems to me to be a foolish idea.

This is just a tip of the iceberg that IIT has started addressing...The beginning has to be made somewhere..

There are counsellors ...But how many use these persons to solve their personal scars, trial & tribulations...

As the students are high flyers they tend to be aloof and do not mix well...At least this course would teach them the importance of interdependence, atleast it will help the Tech Nerds to do a self analysis/review and show them the right path

 

[C RAVI]

This is just a tip of the iceberg that IIT has started addressing...The beginning has to be made somewhere..

There are counsellors ...But how many use these persons to solve their personal scars, trial & tribulations...

As the students are high flyers they tend to be aloof and do not mix well...At least this course would teach them the importance of interdependence, atleast it will help the Tech Nerds to do a self analysis/review and show them the right path

Exactly!! In the cover of brilliancy many suffers psychological imbalance, attitude problems and poor inter personality skills

 

[auh]

I don't think it will be possible to prevent suicidal tendencies of youngsters by adding some more activities, projects and workshops, to be taught by experts, etc. What is needed is to screen the applicants even before their admission to the course, by a panel of competent psychologists to find out whether each candidate exhibits tendency for suicide and then to bestow special care and attention on such students and also to confidentially inform the parents and or local guardian/s.

I think it may not be possible to screen for suicidal tendencies, in all cases. I have generally heard that Indians (and Asians) are high in IQ but low in EQ. Perhaps this may be due to the culture shock they experience in Europe/US etc.

But low EQ, in a highly competitive environment, could perhaps lead to disappointment and a complex that would manifest itself as aggressive behaviour and repressed desires, which may lead (or pave the way) to suicidal tendencies.

Perhaps to keep the mind active and engaged, such activities could help.

 

[prasad1]

I don't think it will be possible to prevent suicidal tendencies of youngsters by adding some more activities, projects and workshops, to be taught by experts, etc. What is needed is to screen the applicants even before their admission to the course, by a panel of competent psychologists to find out whether each candidate exhibits tendency for suicide and then to bestow special care and attention on such students and also to confidentially inform the parents and or local guardian/s.

This is just adding some more credits and increasing the tension for the students.

It seems to me to be a foolish idea.

Evaluation by a panel of psychologists, wow!!!
What if the student is misdiagnosed and gets branded for life? Or will that be a criteria for rejection?

 

[tks]

In any educational system if one takes the best performing students in various parts of the country and put them together in one place they will align according to law of statistics. There will be 10 to 20% getting A and equal number getting D or F (Failing grade). Many will get mediocre grades of a C. This is hard on any student who is used to only getting to be recognized on top of a class. Suicides happen when a child has no support structure anywhere. Cornell University which is one of the best engineering school amongst the Ivy Leagues ends up recording a higher number of suicides per year compared to others.

When I was at IIT back in the 1970s the pressure was high then also - we all want to get the coveted A. What I think was different then is that we used to help each others to succeed. I am still indebted to some of my friends who were like my tutors to solve tough problems. Some took to drinking, some to drugs and others to do other activities as a way of coping. But overall a friendly and supporting friends made that time seem easier.

Today the competition must be cut throat.

I think the IIT administration is taking the right kind of corrective steps in my view.

Based on personal experience of raising my children I have some thoughts on how to perhaps deal with this problem in a uniquely Indian way. If there is interest among the members I will share that later when I have more time.

 

[sravna]

Coping up with pressure comes with worldly experience and cannot be taught. It is like trying to learn from a book how to ride a bicycle I think you need the real life events to learn to handle the pressures. Though inborn tendencies play a large role in the ability to handle stress, if it is to be learnt it is best taught in the upbringing of a child starting from childhood.

 

[prasad1]

If there is interest among the members I will share that later when I have more time.

Yes I am interested.

 

[sangom]

Evaluation by a panel of psychologists, wow!!!
What if the student is misdiagnosed and gets branded for life? Or will that be a criteria for rejection?

Why cannot that evaluation be kept confidential and not publicized? Is it that impossible for a premier institution like IIT? Please make an attempt not to be merely fault-finding just to show your inferiority complex as its reverse to outside world?

 

[Vaagmi]

I don't think it will be possible to prevent suicidal tendencies of youngsters by adding some more activities, projects and workshops, to be taught by experts, etc. What is needed is to screen the applicants even before their admission to the course, by a panel of competent psychologists to find out whether each candidate exhibits tendency for suicide and then to bestow special care and attention on such students and also to confidentially inform the parents and or local guardian/s.

This is just adding some more credits and increasing the tension for the students.

It seems to me to be a foolish idea.

Dear Mr. Sangom,

That does not appear to be the right thing to do. Students who get selected to these IITs are not ordinary students. They are the cream la cream of the available talent. While each one of them can be brilliant in their own way in their own chosen area, they may lack many other skills. Intelligence it self comprises several parts like naturalistic intelligence,musical intelligence,mathematical/logical intelligence, existential intelligence, interpersonal intelligence,body kinesthetic intelligence, linguistic intelligence, intra personal intelligence, spatial intelligence etc., Rarely do we come across an individual with good score in all this together. If you have a student who is brilliant in maths he may very naturally see the growth of a tree as a differential equation rather than as the evolution of a small micron sized seed into a beautiful riot of colors. While he may be good in transmitting and resonating in a particular wavelength he may be completely switched off in some other. What is needed is nurturing the talent. It requires very skilled teachers to identify the latent fire in every one and then help him/her build on that. I do not know whether the committee has recommended a mentor system in which the student gets attached to a teacher. The teacher then becomes not only just a teacher but a mentor too and this is perhaps what is meant by the Sanskrit word தீர்க்க பந்து. A teacher who is also a mentor would know the real student, the basic material with which he is made, and will mould it properly helping the student to come to terms with the reality. Without a formal mentor system this worked naturally in earlier days when the numbers were less. The GPA system has taken care of the anxiety levels and stress in a competitive environment to some extent. But that is not sufficient. Hope we learn from experience. The bottom line is that you teach a different kind of music to a student who is sees colors in musical notes and teach a different kind of maths to our boy who visualises a differential equation in the growing tree.

I think I must learn how to make my posts short.

 

[auh]

Well written in post 11.

The problem I see is that there are not enough good teachers in our country. We do not groom teachers; most have no other means of livelihood, and, as a last resort to make use of their degree, turn to teaching profession. I do not mean the IIT and IIM here, as they are, as mentioned above, "the cream of the cream".

We must learn to respect our teachers.

 

[sangom]

Dear Mr. Sangom,

That does not appear to be the right thing to do. Students who get selected to these IITs are not ordinary students. They are the cream la cream of the available talent. While each one of them can be brilliant in their own way in their own chosen area, they may lack many other skills. Intelligence it self comprises several parts like naturalistic intelligence,musical intelligence,mathematical/logical intelligence, existential intelligence, interpersonal intelligence,body kinesthetic intelligence, linguistic intelligence, intra personal intelligence, spatial intelligence etc., Rarely do we come across an individual with good score in all this together. If you have a student who is brilliant in maths he may very naturally see the growth of a tree as a differential equation rather than as the evolution of a small micron sized seed into a beautiful riot of colors. While he may be good in transmitting and resonating in a particular wavelength he may be completely switched off in some other. What is needed is nurturing the talent. It requires very skilled teachers to identify the latent fire in every one and then help him/her build on that. I do not know whether the committee has recommended a mentor system in which the student gets attached to a teacher. The teacher then becomes not only just a teacher but a mentor too and this is perhaps what is meant by the Sanskrit word தீர்க்க பந்து. A teacher who is also a mentor would know the real student, the basic material with which he is made, and will mould it properly helping the student to come to terms with the reality. Without a formal mentor system this worked naturally in earlier days when the numbers were less. The GPA system has taken care of the anxiety levels and stress in a competitive environment to some extent. But that is not sufficient. Hope we learn from experience. The bottom line is that you teach a different kind of music to a student who is sees colors in musical notes and teach a different kind of maths to our boy who visualises a differential equation in the growing tree.

I think I must learn how to make my posts short.

Shri Vaagmi sir,

I feel you are a teacher, perhaps and that is why you have such a grand notion about teacher and his role as mentor, etc. But that is not at all the reality imh experience. Having followed my three sons through their IIT courses, I feel these IITs are themselves stress creators and stress amplifiers. Even at the selection/admission stage the candidate is under enormous mental stress and the atmosphere and the teaching atmosphere in the IITs only add fuel to the already present fire of mental stress. One method I tried was to tell my sons not to bother too much and that in this world not getting an IIT degree will not be the end of the world, that almost all their forefathers including myself could find a living without studying in IIT.

The teachers in IIT who are very knowledgeable in their subjects do not invariably become good "teachers"; those who are very good in teaching do not always possess that high level of knowledge. Further, during the 1980's, most of these IIT professors had their life's ambition to emigrate to some foreign university of repute and they looked upon their IIT job as merely a stop-gap arrangement; as a result there were hardly few really devoted teachers in IITs.

Once intake became broad-based and the entrance could be written in regional languages also, many of the foreign-looking and other devoted teachers went abroad accepting whatever job offer they could secure. Thus today's IITs are most probably only ghosts of the premier institutions which their founding fathers had envisioned.

And, the IIT students are really not more brilliant than the rest in the country; only that they could store much more data in their memory and correctly regurgitate the correct answer data from their memory, faster. (A case of more efficient RAM in the case of a PC perhaps.) Hence all that you said about various types of intelligences — (naturalistic intelligence,musical intelligence,mathematical/logical intelligence, existential intelligence, interpersonal intelligence,body kinesthetic intelligence, linguistic intelligence, intra personal intelligence, spatial intelligence etc. — but all these are not identified nor are these relevant in the case of IIT students, I think.) is irrelevant.

In answering your long post my message also has become very long.

 

[Vaagmi]

Shri Vaagmi sir,

I feel you are a teacher, perhaps and that is why you have such a grand notion about teacher and his role as mentor, etc. But that is not at all the reality imh experience. Having followed my three sons through their IIT courses, I feel these IITs are themselves stress creators and stress amplifiers. Even at the selection/admission stage the candidate is under enormous mental stress and the atmosphere and the teaching atmosphere in the IITs only add fuel to the already present fire of mental stress. One method I tried was to tell my sons not to bother too much and that in this world not getting an IIT degree will not be the end of the world, that almost all their forefathers including myself could find a living without studying in IIT.

The teachers in IIT who are very knowledgeable in their subjects do not invariably become good "teachers"; those who are very good in teaching do not always possess that high level of knowledge. Further, during the 1980's, most of these IIT professors had their life's ambition to emigrate to some foreign university of repute and they looked upon their IIT job as merely a stop-gap arrangement; as a result there were hardly few really devoted teachers in IITs.

Once intake became broad-based and the entrance could be written in regional languages also, many of the foreign-looking and other devoted teachers went abroad accepting whatever job offer they could secure. Thus today's IITs are most probably only ghosts of the premier institutions which their founding fathers had envisioned.

And, the IIT students are really not more brilliant than the rest in the country; only that they could store much more data in their memory and correctly regurgitate the correct answer data from their memory, faster. (A case of more efficient RAM in the case of a PC perhaps.) Hence all that you said about various types of intelligences — (naturalistic intelligence,musical intelligence,mathematical/logical intelligence, existential intelligence, interpersonal intelligence,body kinesthetic intelligence, linguistic intelligence, intra personal intelligence, spatial intelligence etc. — but all these are not identified nor are these relevant in the case of IIT students, I think.) is irrelevant.

In answering your long post my message also has become very long.

Dear Mr. Sangom,

As I am a teacher, I have opportunities to interact with the IIT faculty members as well as students there (Chennai and Bombay) and I presented my impressions from these interactions. Most of the students who come to IIT handle well the stress that is created by the demands of the academic discipline and level of hardwork that is required. Many of the teachers in these institutions are still dedicated. They do not work for the money paid. For them it is a commitment and a passion. There are of course those who want to emigrate. But they are only a few.

And IIT students are certainly brilliant. It is not as if they have only a larger memory. Problem solving abilities are not the same for every student. IIT students as a class excel in this. May be you have not met as many students from IIT as I have. I find it a pleasure to interact with some of these youngsters. Thank you.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

I think the common denominator between academic brilliance and life skills is the tendency to be selfish. I categorize intelligence into two distinct varieties, the ones who are exceptionally good in logical skills but not concerned about moral values and the other who are characterized by exceptional fidelity to moral values. The latter too possess exceptional logical skills but but they are not clinical in attitude unlike the former group.

Though on the surface both appear brilliant, the moral ones find it difficult to cope up with the pressures that today's world throws up. The good news for them I think is they have the better ability to adapt and hence in fact can find ways to handle pressure. They just have to discover themselves.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

I think the common denominator between academic brilliance and life skills is the tendency to be selfish. I categorize intelligence into two distinct varieties, the ones who are exceptionally good in logical skills but not concerned about moral values and the other who are characterized by exceptional fidelity to moral values. The latter too possess exceptional logical skills but but they are not clinical in attitude unlike the former group.

Though on the surface both appear brilliant, the moral ones find it difficult to cope up with the pressures that today's world throws up. The good news for them I think is they have the better ability to adapt and hence in fact can find ways to handle pressure. They just have to discover themselves.

dear sravana,

i loved reading this post, for its erudition and verbage. but unfortunately, the mandu in me, did not understand what you are trying to say.

can you please give examples of both of the above categories, and how they would react in similar (or same) circumstances. if you dont mind that is.

thank you.

 

[sravna]

dear sravana,

i loved reading this post, for its erudition and verbage. but unfortunately, the mandu in me, did not understand what you are trying to say.

can you please give examples of both of the above categories, and how they would react in similar (or same) circumstances. if you dont mind that is.

thank you.

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

What I am basically saying is that if you are not selfish you are a misfit in today's world. So to go along with the world it would seem you need to be selfish too. Those who are by nature selfish naturally get along. But those who are not would not seem to. So they have to be resourceful.

Let us say that you are the good one and I am selfish. Our reaction, say, when someone close to us does something bad to us, would elicit different responses. While I will not show my emotions but waiting for a chance to get even because I am by nature selfish and am concerned only about my well being. This behaviour the world does not consider abnormal and more or less the way that it expects of people.

On the other hand, you would be affected deeply but would not want to hurt the person. This behaviour is considered soft and you are considered a soft target. This is when people such people with high intelligence feel the need to compromise.

But what you could instead do is, handle the situation without any compromise. You could mustering all your intelligence train yourself to be not impacted by emotions. Though on surface both of us would be acting the same way we are diametrically different. This is because suppressing emotions implies I am holding them for a long time whereas you instantly are relieved of them.

You can react the way suggested above because you basically have the ability to adapt.

 

[tks]

Yes I am interested.

Sri Prasad - Thanks for expressing interest.

Maturity can be attained at any age with practice and age alone does not guarantee this. One needs to be mature in order to not feel the stress or other negative emotions arising due to situations that seem to be sometimes out of our control. For example when a student goes to a campus like IIT many find it difficult to adjust to the hostel life away from home. Sometimes their study habits are not all that evolved and their learning is affected compared to their peers.

STEM subjects (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) require one to learn the basics properly. The topics in a given year often build on the knowledge gained from previous set of courses takne. This is not true always in many liberal arts oriented subjects. A person who misses building a proper foundation is instantly lost in such subjects.

Therefore a student that gets out of step in learning or gets ahead by some amount of cheating or falls behind by goofing off ends up finding the next set of topics exceedingly difficult. The nature of the curriculum at IIT like institutions does not provide time to catch up. Besides falling behind is considered a mark of failure and hence a person pushes along feeling like a phony. Some fall behind so much that they feel worthless and even commit acts of suicide.

In order to maintain self esteem one needs to develop a sense of maturity. There are no systematic programs that teach this to children as they are growing up. In USA there are Chinmaya missions which provide a curriculum. My nephews who attended such programs for 12 years through their regular school years exhibit a healthy sense of self esteem. They also ended up in top universities.

My children were fortunate that they got exposed to teachings of Gita and some Upanishads with specific applications to teenage and middle & high school related issues. By emphasizing logical reasoning and not relying on belief systems in these teachings they were able to debate and develop a respect for the teaching due to their understanding. They still meditate everyday and have a few practices that I hope will remain with them for a long time.

I do not want to talk any more specifics since in public forum I do not want to provide PII (personally identifiable information).

The both are in PhD programs at MIT (Boston) in engineering. They attended similarly challenging universities in their undergraduate days. They went through the typical ups and downs that any student would face in environments that demands excellence. Due to their luck and some opportunities created for their maturity they were able to deal with many issues that they ran into without stress.

Let me say that if many colleges and universities would provide opportunities to attend Vedic heritage classes by qualified teachers (which is very hard to find) then our county will become very competitive in the world.

While the principles and practices taught by Patanjali are universally applicable I guess it is likely to appeal to mainly to those who identify themselves as Hindus or those that are open minded agnostics and atheists.

Just like we take shower every day there is a need to clean up our mind which gathers a lot of impurities and hurt in any given day. Nadi-Shodhana Pranayama for example can make one feel better and put them in a very good mood simply by practicing for 15 minutes every day. It has to be taught by someone qualified for maximum benefit.

Meditation with proper background can help one develop a strong emotional well being. Again there are not many teachers that can teach students who are analytical in nature.


Here is a somewhat recent article in Scientific American on the benefits of meditation:


Meditation Correlated with Structural Changes in the Brain: Scientific American Podcast





I think a program that teaches basics of this kind will help India as a whole.

Right now I am still working 60 hours a week - perhaps if I choose to retire I may want to take up a project to educate the unorganized sector leveraging the 'handed down wisdom' of our Rishis to benefit the children of India. Right now this is just a dream.

 

[vgane]

Sri Prasad - Thanks for expressing interest.

Maturity can be attained at any age with practice and age alone does not guarantee this. One needs to be mature in order to not feel the stress or other negative emotions arising due to situations that seem to be sometimes out of our control. For example when a student goes to a campus like IIT many find it difficult to adjust to the hostel life away from home. Sometimes their study habits are not all that evolved and their learning is affected compared to their peers.

STEM subjects (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) require one to learn the basics properly. The topics in a given year often build on the knowledge gained from previous set of courses takne. This is not true always in many liberal arts oriented subjects. A person who misses building a proper foundation is instantly lost in such subjects.

Therefore a student that gets out of step in learning or gets ahead by some amount of cheating or falls behind by goofing off ends up finding the next set of topics exceedingly difficult. The nature of the curriculum at IIT like institutions does not provide time to catch up. Besides falling behind is considered a mark of failure and hence a person pushes along feeling like a phony. Some fall behind so much that they feel worthless and even commit acts of suicide.

In order to maintain self esteem one needs to develop a sense of maturity. There are no systematic programs that teach this to children as they are growing up. In USA there are Chinmaya missions which provide a curriculum. My nephews who attended such programs for 12 years through their regular school years exhibit a healthy sense of self esteem. They also ended up in top universities.

My children were fortunate that they got exposed to teachings of Gita and some Upanishads with specific applications to teenage and middle & high school related issues. By emphasizing logical reasoning and not relying on belief systems in these teachings they were able to debate and develop a respect for the teaching due to their understanding. They still meditate everyday and have a few practices that I hope will remain with them for a long time.

I do not want to talk any more specifics since in public forum I do not want to provide PII (personally identifiable information).

The both are in PhD programs at MIT (Boston) in engineering. They attended similarly challenging universities in their undergraduate days. They went through the typical ups and downs that any student would face in environments that demands excellence. Due to their luck and some opportunities created for their maturity they were able to deal with many issues that they ran into without stress.

Let me say that if many colleges and universities would provide opportunities to attend Vedic heritage classes by qualified teachers (which is very hard to find) then our county will become very competitive in the world.

While the principles and practices taught by Patanjali are universally applicable I guess it is likely to appeal to mainly to those who identify themselves as Hindus or those that are open minded agnostics and atheists.

Just like we take shower every day there is a need to clean up our mind which gathers a lot of impurities and hurt in any given day. Nadi-Shodhana Pranayama for example can make one feel better and put them in a very good mood simply by practicing for 15 minutes every day. It has to be taught by someone qualified for maximum benefit.

Meditation with proper background can help one develop a strong emotional well being. Again there are not many teachers that can teach students who are analytical in nature.


Here is a somewhat recent article in Scientific American on the benefits of meditation:


Meditation Correlated with Structural Changes in the Brain: Scientific American Podcast





I think a program that teaches basics of this kind will help India as a whole.

Right now I am still working 60 hours a week - perhaps if I choose to retire I may want to take up a project to educate the unorganized sector leveraging the 'handed down wisdom' of our Rishis to benefit the children of India. Right now this is just a dream.

Wow! You have taken pains to explain this...Wishing you all the very best in your new initiative!

 

[renuka]

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

I think the common denominator between academic brilliance and life skills is the tendency to be selfish. I categorize intelligence into two distinct varieties, the ones who are exceptionally good in logical skills but not concerned about moral values and the other who are characterized by exceptional fidelity to moral values. The latter too possess exceptional logical skills but but they are not clinical in attitude unlike the former group.

Though on the surface both appear brilliant, the moral ones find it difficult to cope up with the pressures that today's world throws up. The good news for them I think is they have the better ability to adapt and hence in fact can find ways to handle pressure. They just have to discover themselves.

Dear Sravna,

I agree with you..you are right..those of us who are straight forward do find it a bit hard to fit into the present day scenario.

I have seen this happen many times when I used to work in hospitals.

Most of us "good" doctors would just do our work..help out our co doctors..try to cover up for each others mistakes too..but the cunning types of doctors who wanted to get into the good books of the consultants would do gossiping behind the back..even try to modify written notes to land a fellow colleague into trouble just to prove that they are better than others.

Once there was a nice good competent Chinese doctor who had put a chest tube for a patient and so happen that day was his bad luck(he always had a good track record)..and the procedure caused a pneumothorax for the patient(non fatal condition).

So all of us were trying to help him rectify the situation and help the patient recover from this pneumothorax but there were a group of co doctors who were tormenting him the whole day saying "wow..so you are not as good after all" and even called other doctors from other departments to show them the blotched up case.

The news reaached the consultants and the consultants started their rounds of bitching about this case.

No one had even the slightest compassion for the patient or for the doctor who had accidentally caused the pneumothorax...each doc was using this chance to project themselves as being better than that doctor.

Even once a senior surgeon on call did not want to release a body of a person who had died in the ward.
He wanted a post mortem the next day but the family members wanted the body released that night itself.

So since I was on duty with a junior specialist the family members were yelling at us to release the body from the morgue.

So we explained to them that the senior surgeon wants a post mortem and would only release the body the next day..the patients family were fuming mad and the senior surgeon did not even want to speak to them over the phone to tell them that its his decision to not release the body.

So the family thought we are making up some story that the senior surgeon wants a post mortem since he was not willing to talk to them.

The next few days the family members wrote an official complain saying that the junior specialist and I did not want to release the body.

We got all the blame and never even once did the senior surgeon offer to help out by saying that he was the one who did not want to release the body.

So the junior specialist stood up for me and him and demanded this be solved cos it is not fair we get the blame and have to explain to the hospital director.

To our surprise that senior surgeon said "you both just do not have it to handle stressful situations" and he did not want to explain to the hospital director.

All he said that the complain letter was not directed to him and you deal with it yourselves.

This is the perfect example of a cunning selfish person who put his juniors into trouble and did not want to get involved when it was his orders we were following.

A true righteous person would have never behaved the way he did.

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

That is a good example. What needs to be realized by the people who end up at the receiving end because of the nice attitude is that they have the capacity to not compromise on their values and still be at peace with themselves.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

That is a good example. What needs to be realized by the people who end up at the receiving end because of the nice attitude is that they have the capacity to not compromise on their values and still be at peace with themselves.

Dear Sravna,

Agreed and let me add that to a great extent I feel a persons true nature can NOT change much.

Total transformation of a person's nature seldom takes place..most people are prone to repeat the same good or bad behavior and even the same mistakes.

 

[mkrishna100]

This is the way we learn

one fourth from the teacher, one fourth from own intelligence,
one fourth from classmates, and one fourth only with time.

A Sanskrit Proverb

 

[sangom]

Apart from considerations such as selfish/moralistic, and their brilliant problem-solving (on paper) capacity of the IIT students, the ground reality is that most if not all, such students are kind of "green house" products. It is because of their own selfishness (to ascend one step higher than all their peers and also similar zealotry on the part of their parents too) that primarily these boys and girls join the IIT entrance coaching classes themselves. Hence all these people are selfish, even to start with.

But, as I said, many are brought up in green house conditions and are quite inexperienced in moving with the different cultures and strata of society. Some of them get flabbergasted, so to say, and when they find the taunts from other students as also the study-load go beyond their management, they take the extreme step of suicide. But this is found only in people with particular kind of mental make-up.

 

[Vaagmi]

Apart from considerations such as selfish/moralistic, and their brilliant problem-solving (on paper) capacity of the IIT students, the ground reality is that most if not all, such students are kind of "green house" products. It is because of their own selfishness (to ascend one step higher than all their peers and also similar zealotry on the part of their parents too) that primarily these boys and girls join the IIT entrance coaching classes themselves. Hence all these people are selfish, even to start with.

But, as I said, many are brought up in green house conditions and are quite inexperienced in moving with the different cultures and strata of society. Some of them get flabbergasted, so to say, and when they find the taunts from other students as also the study-load go beyond their management, they take the extreme step of suicide. But this is found only in people with particular kind of mental make-up.

Dear Mr. Sangom,

If being selfish is equivalent to being ambitious what you say would be true. In that case being "selfish" is not a crime. It is not as if these brilliant minds are suddenly exposed to IIT while all along, in their schools, they were all carefully preserved in a cocoon. It is in their schools and homes that these brilliant minds pick up their values. If being ambitious and focussed is one such value it is not a greenhouse effect. It is by a conscious choice.

Those who are flabbergasted-as you say-and those who fail to cope up with peer pressures, bullying, study load etc have nothing special in IIT. Even if they had not joined IIT and had joined someother institute would have had the same level of stress. Suicide is a genetic orientation in a large number of cases.

To conclude, my case is that IIT students are as much ordinary students as other students if you keep aside their academic brilliance. Clash of value systems are there every where in every academic institution. People cope with the pressures as best as they can.