Imbalanced Criticism of India by those who left India , NRI, PIO, OCI ....

[tks]

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Having lived outside India for most of my adult life while having benefited by the best of what India offered to me in my teen years I always feel a certain sense of gratitude to which I will never be able to repay.

Perhaps because of this feeling, I tend to notice imbalanced criticism of India by people of Indian Origin living outside India . It is especially noteworthy that the same people are willing to defend their new found homeland and if they tended to offer criticism it seems more balanced.

I have seen people of Chinese origin , even those from Taiwan being proud of accomplishments of people of main land China.
Jewish Americans who have never been to state of Israel always speak of Israel with highest respect.

I am not trying to generalize but based on my minimal samples of interactions I find People of Indian Origin being more harsh towards India compared to any other nationalities & the views they hold about their mother-country.

One could sense this trend even in the posts of a few people of Indian origin in this forum as well.

Comments welcome!

 

[ozone]

More than what they do, why they do is more intriguing and sometimes disturbing to me.

 

[sarang]

Perhaps a freudian analysis will help; some hate their parents, some grandparents, some the strict environment in which they grew up. Their intent to harm (not reform) and destroy is disturbing. They are better out than in.

 

[tbs]

due to some bad expereiences in back home india....some ppl feel like that.....may be some personnal tragedies too...some where
bro nara sir said that....i love india....but due to some civic problems....we dont like to visit india....may be true too

 

[sarma-61]

Having lived outside India for most of my adult life while having benefited by the best of what India offered to me in my teen years I always feel a certain sense of gratitude to which I will never be able to repay.

Perhaps because of this feeling, I tend to notice imbalanced criticism of India by people of Indian Origin living outside India . It is especially noteworthy that the same people are willing to defend their new found homeland and if they tended to offer criticism it seems more balanced.

I have seen people of Chinese origin , even those from Taiwan being proud of accomplishments of people of main land China.
Jewish Americans who have never been to state of Israel always speak of Israel with highest respect.

I am not trying to generalize but based on my minimal samples of interactions I find People of Indian Origin being more harsh towards India compared to any other nationalities & the views they hold about their mother-country.

One could sense this trend even in the posts of a few people of Indian origin in this forum as well.

Comments welcome!

Shri tks sir,

I agree with you. This "cherukku" or haughtiness, which arises from the fact that those who have gone abroad and settled down there, have made it better in terms of materialistic possessions and pleasures, is typical of Indians generally and tabras, in particular.

This is the very factor, ingratitude towards motherland, which is at the root of all the poverty and suffering we have in India also. Any Indian who is comparatively doing better in life, feels that he belongs to a certain privileged category, and that those poorer or lower than him/her, are ineligible for anything other than the fate which has befallen those poor people. Though you may find some media coverage about good deeds being done, here and there, you can rest assured that all the sincerity and goodness in all such 'good samaritan' deeds will gradually disappear once the enterprise is able to attract funds from abroad - through individual donations and/or institutional grants-in-aid - for the so-called "further aims" of the grand enterprise.

People settling down abroad probably carry the same haughty feeling which makes them forget completely that they might also have been worms wriggling in the cesspool that is their native country but for a stroke of good luck.

To put it succinctly Indians lack pride in their homeland. I feel it has happened because, under M.K. Gandhi's one-sided leadership, we fought as so many different groups (sindhi, Chera, telugu, tamizh, Assam, Utkal, Banga, etc., etc.) and never once was the "Indianness" emphasized by the then political leadership. Their only intention was to drive away the British from power and to masquerade as the new set of (colonial) rulers of the very same disparate group of nativity identities.

 

[zebra16]

I am not trying to generalize but based on my minimal samples of interactions I find People of Indian Origin being more harsh towards India compared to any other nationalities & the views they hold about their mother-country.

One could sense this trend even in the posts of a few people of Indian origin in this forum as well.

Comments welcome!

I do not know whether your interactions represent the "sample" so as to know whether they are truly representative. I would tend to think that you might have rather heard the "shrill noise" of India criticism more and arrived at the conclusion that NRIs/PIOs are more harsh than expatriates of other countries.

One way to look at their true feelings is to take a hard look at their contribution to India's economy. The following is the collection India made from India Resurgent Bonds which was open only to Indian diaspora. This collection was launched when India conducted nuclear experiments and West thought India should be taught a lesson to conform to the West's standards and almost banned India as a investment destination:

1991 India Development Bonds - U S $ 1.6 billion
1998 India Resurgent Bonds - U S $ 4.2 billion
2000 India Millenium Bonds - U S $ 5.2 billion

Source: http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTPROSPECTS/Resources/334934-1110315015165/Senthil.pdf

It is not as if non-resident Indians are not aware of India's development or progress, but they have better things to do than being vociferous in internet forums!!

I would also like to draw your attention to the large Indian diaspora in Middle East and South East Asian nations, but their observations are more nuanced than their cousins in North Ameican countries of USA and Canada. Needless to say their contribution to India's growth in the form of NRE/FCNR deposits will dwarf the contributions of the atlantic group many times over.

 

[ozone]

i love india....but due to some civic problems....we dont like to visit india....may be true too

I agree with you that all isnt so well out here and definitely needs a heavy doze of drive to straighten things up.
But dont you see the same set of people wouldnt hesitate to make umpteen attempts to something foreign, or
would jump to throw in something to get ahead. have you witnessed for e.g., how these heavy weights behave when
they land at the Indian Airport and be it the immigration counter, taxi queue etc.,?

 

[ozone]

Sri Zebra-16,
Your post #6. I need more reading and thinking to accept this as fool proof evidence,
but my perhaps knee jerk yet first reaction tells me these were investments made for reasons of attractive returns, tax and safety, least of all to help in development.
I agree, many NRIs have sent money back home to help their families and invest in real estate and this helped RBI in keeping their $ reserves high, but to place it as a good gesture on India development is as I said takes little more breath.
To see a mutually beneficial scheme as a sacrifice isnt correct, when the real praise due is to govt for the policies.

 

[zebra16]

Sri Zebra-16,
Your post #6. I need more reading and thinking to accept this as fool proof evidence,
but my perhaps knee jerk yet first reaction tells me these were investments made for reasons of attractive returns, tax and safety, least of all to help in development.
I agree, many NRIs have sent money back home to help their families and invest in real estate and this helped RBI in keeping their $ reserves high, but to place it as a good gesture on India development is as I said takes little more breath.
To see a mutually beneficial scheme as a sacrifice isnt correct, when the real praise due is to govt for the policies.

Sure, you have to arrive at the conclusion after detailed study and you may not agree with me. And, yes, economic considerations are also at the root of investments.

My point of emphasis, is that there is a "basic trust" that the government is functional, the country is progressing and its economy is expanding. This aspect is mostly absent in the posts of the critics with "chinese comparison" syndrome. Have you found any acknowledgement of the detractors that India is the 4th largest economy in the world? Have you heard any praise of the Indian government policies in this forum?

My mind is far away from expecting any sacrifice from the detractors. Correct understanding of reality is more than enough.

 

[renuka]

Having lived outside India for most of my adult life while having benefited by the best of what India offered to me in my teen years I always feel a certain sense of gratitude to which I will never be able to repay.

Perhaps because of this feeling, I tend to notice imbalanced criticism of India by people of Indian Origin living outside India . It is especially noteworthy that the same people are willing to defend their new found homeland and if they tended to offer criticism it seems more balanced.

I have seen people of Chinese origin , even those from Taiwan being proud of accomplishments of people of main land China.
Jewish Americans who have never been to state of Israel always speak of Israel with highest respect.

I am not trying to generalize but based on my minimal samples of interactions I find People of Indian Origin being more harsh towards India compared to any other nationalities & the views they hold about their mother-country.

One could sense this trend even in the posts of a few people of Indian origin in this forum as well.

Comments welcome!

From what I have noted somehow people of Keralite origin even if they are living abroad never ever find fault with their home state.

In fact many of well to do keralites who are citizens of other countries when they go back to India hide the fact they are citizens of other countries and say they are from Kerala.

The reason they do this is becos they are proud of the fact they are doing well in life and want to give all credit to their homestate.

I have noted this in them, once in India one lady asked me where I was from and I said Malaysia and she said she was from Kerala and I noted she spoke with a heavy Malaysian accent.

So I asked her how come she has a Malaysian accent and she still insisted she was from Kerala and never even been out of her home state and never knew any Malaysian too.

So I though Ok I will test her..I took out my handphone and acted as if I was making a call to someone and spoke some Malay swear words in a sweet tone so that no one will know I am swearing and words that only a Malaysian would know and sure enough that lady was shocked to hear the swear words I was using on the phone.
She was staring at me angrily.
It was beyond doubt she was a Malaysian citizen.

 

[ozone]

My point of emphasis, is that there is a "basic trust" that the government is functional, the country is progressing and its economy is expanding.

I now understand. Your point that indeed those who trust and have confidence and put their money are in a majority than the miniscule we see here is noteworthy and comforting.

 

[tbs]

From what I have noted somehow people of Keralite origin even if they are living abroad never ever find fault with their home state.

In fact many of well to do keralites who are citizens of other countries when they go back to India hide the fact they are citizens of other countries and say they are from Kerala.

The reason they do this is becos they are proud of the fact they are doing well in life and want to give all credit to their homestate.

I have noted this in them, once in India one lady asked me where I was from and I said Malaysia and she said she was from Kerala and I noted she spoke with a heavy Malaysian accent.

So I asked her how come she has a Malaysian accent and she she still insisted she was from Kerala and never even been out of her home state and never knew any Malaysian too.

So I though Ok I will test her..I took out my handphone and acted as if I was making a call to someone and spoke some Malay swear words in a sweet tone so that no one will know I am swearing and words that only a Malaysian would know and sure enough that lady was shocked to hear the harsh malay words I was using on the phone.
She was staring at me angrily.
It was beyond doubt she was a Malaysian citizen.

hi renu,
its true....mallus are big nri diaspora from arab countires......i think gujus/mallus are same......many gujus spread over all corners of world.....still both attach to language/culture attachment......many contributions to their respective states...

 

[ozone]

From what I have noted somehow people of Keralite origin even if they are living abroad never ever find fault with their home state.

In fact many of well to do keralites who are citizens of other countries when they go back to India hide the fact they are citizens of other countries and say they are from Kerala.

The reason they do this is becos they are proud of the fact they are doing well in life and want to give all credit to their homestate.

I have noted this in them, once in India one lady asked me where I was from and I said Malaysia and she said she was from Kerala and I noted she spoke with a heavy Malaysian accent.

So I asked her how come she has a Malaysian accent and she still insisted she was from Kerala and never even been out of her home state and never knew any Malaysian too.

So I though Ok I will test her..I took out my handphone and acted as if I was making a call to someone and spoke some Malay swear words in a sweet tone so that no one will know I am swearing and words that only a Malaysian would know and sure enough that lady was shocked to hear the harsh malay words I was using on the phone.
She was staring at me angrily.
It was beyond doubt she was a Malaysian citizen.

Amazing, you are able to meet a wide variety people for an amazingly diverse situation ...

And, what really are to trying to say here? About the lady? or about your malay?
(no, dont say those things again translated or otherwise, here)

 

[zebra16]

I now understand. Your point that indeed those who trust and have confidence and put their money are in a majority than the miniscule we see here is noteworthy and comforting.

The minuscule minority would also probably have invested in India and they may just be taking opposite position on paper, to keep up the polemics. We would never know!!

 

[renuka]

Amazing, you are able to meet a wide variety people for an amazingly diverse situation ...

And, what really are to trying to say here? About the lady? or about your malay?
(no, dont say those things again translated or otherwise, here)

You see ozone..all she could do was stare at me cos she cant ask me it why I am using such words cos I could tell her back "oh how come you know Malay now when earlier you said you are not Malaysian and dont even know a Malaysian person and neither did I see you log in to Google Translate to find out the meaning"

Satyam Eva Jayate!!!

 

[sarma-61]

From what I have noted somehow people of Keralite origin even if they are living abroad never ever find fault with their home state.

In fact many of well to do keralites who are citizens of other countries when they go back to India hide the fact they are citizens of other countries and say they are from Kerala.

The reason they do this is becos they are proud of the fact they are doing well in life and want to give all credit to their homestate.

I have noted this in them, once in India one lady asked me where I was from and I said Malaysia and she said she was from Kerala and I noted she spoke with a heavy Malaysian accent.

So I asked her how come she has a Malaysian accent and she still insisted she was from Kerala and never even been out of her home state and never knew any Malaysian too.

So I though Ok I will test her..I took out my handphone and acted as if I was making a call to someone and spoke some Malay swear words in a sweet tone so that no one will know I am swearing and words that only a Malaysian would know and sure enough that lady was shocked to hear the swear words I was using on the phone.
She was staring at me angrily.
It was beyond doubt she was a Malaysian citizen.

Smt. Renuka ji,

I feel just as the Keralite has the feeling that he/she is a Malayali, people of other regions/states like Tamilian, Gujarati, Marathi, Bengali, Punjabi, Sindhi, etc., also have their pride in such regional identity and even camaraderie abroad; but what is deficient is the ability to break free of such parochial "belongingness", if it may be so called, and develop an "Indian" feeling.

It is also relevant to note here that almost all gulf expatriates know that they cannot permanently settle there, nor can they give higher education there to their children; so they repatriate every penny to home country. Even the bonds referred to by Zebra (post # 6) might have been contributed substantially by the gulf diaspora.

 

[ozone]

You see ozone..all she could do was stare at me cos she cant ask me it why I am using such words cos I could tell her back "oh how come you know Malay now when earlier you said you are not Malaysian and dont even know a Malaysian person and neither did I see you log in to Google Translate to find out the meaning"

Satyam Eva Jayate!!!

I still fail to understand your purpose here.
I am from kerala, has nothing to do with I am a citizen of Malaysia. Both are truth.
Perhaps they identify themselves more of keralite than a Malaysian. Is that incorrect per you?

 

[renuka]

I still fail to understand your purpose here.
I am from kerala, has nothing to do with I am a citizen of Malaysia. Both are truth.
Perhaps they identify themselves more of keralite than a Malaysian. Is that incorrect per you?

Sir you got me wrong..when someone asks me where I am from I say I am from Malaysia and a Malaysian citizen and ethnic Indian Tamil with roots from Paramakudi.

But this lady asked me where I was from and then went on denying she is Malaysian when she was actually one.

See if she wants to know the truth about anyone she better be speaking the truth too..she could have said she is M'sian citizen and Ethnic Keralite.

I once had a friend in college an american citizen but from Kerala originally she told us she always tells everyone she is not an american and never been out of Kerala when she lands in India (but her accent is a give away,heavy american accent)..she said she does this to show other Non Keralite Indians that Keralites are well off and sound like Americans and to make other indians envious of Kerala.

 

[renuka]

Smt. Renuka ji,

I feel just as the Keralite has the feeling that he/she is a Malayali, people of other regions/states like Tamilian, Gujarati, Marathi, Bengali, Punjabi, Sindhi, etc., also have their pride in such regional identity and even camaraderie abroad; but what is deficient is the ability to break free of such parochial "belongingness", if it may be so called, and develop an "Indian" feeling.

No sir..its not the same.
Other Indians still only feel proud of their caste and subtype but Keralites are proud of themselves as a whole.

You see in other states for example Tamil Nadu, a Gounder might not care too much if a Non Tamil runs down an Non Gounder from Tamil Nadu.

But in Kerala, a Nair will not even tolerate if a Non Keralite runs down a Non Nair Keralites.

They see themselves as Keralites..they might have internal differences but when they face people of other states they are united and proud to be Keralites.

That is an admirable quality even though some carry it too far.

 

[ozone]

The minuscule minority would also probably have invested in India and they may just be taking opposite position on paper, to keep up the polemics. We would never know!!

this is similar or in line with my post #7. Whether they are minority or majority cannot be ascertained.

 

[Raji Ram]

Many criticize their mother land. The main reason is the 50 fold $ value!! :thumb:

 

[v arun kumar]

People settling down abroad probably carry the same haughty feeling which makes them forget completely that they might also have been worms wriggling in the cesspool that is their native country but for a stroke of good luck.

What kind of description it this, worms wrigling in a cesspool ? if thats the sort of self esteem people within the country carry, then why blame those abroad, they have atleast seen better conditions prevailing and may be have a right to critisize us.

And as far a comparisons go, I heard that one cannot walk out free in France without being mugged. in south africa, most parts of the country is out of bounds for tourist walking alone, In muslim countries non muslims cant eat anything openly during ramzan, that apart there are n number of restricions do and dont dos, god knows what all befalls people in bamboo curtain counties, Compared to all those we live in free state, except for certain parts of the country, one can live free on the roads and breath the fresh air, without the smell of gun power lacing your nostrils, if after all that people find india represive than god help them

 

[ozone]

, if after all that people find india represive than god help them

I guess this comes out of a feeling of frustration that these folks are neither here nor there. It wouldnt be out of place to think that the new country, how much ever eager and aggressive they are to wholly and completely be part of, would recognise them other than within the laws and for all practical purpose they have to live with a feeling of an outsider and a minority. That feeling is what gives them a quick brotherly feeling towards some of the imagined downtrodden here and justify the cause, because they experience that life.

And some of them being as they are with no belief even in God, are left with nothing to do, but to do what they are good at.

Of course all these are my own made-ups and I wish none of this, including the criticisms against India, exist

 

[renuka]

I have even noted among some of my fellow M'sian Indian friends who graduated with me from India those who have subspecialized they drop the MBBS(Manipal) word behind their name and just write Dr XYZ MBBS,MRCP(Edinburg)..

I find that being ungrateful to the country and college that gave us the knowledge for the MBBS degree.

But if the MBBS degree was from Queensland then docs do not drop the Queensland in their name and it will be Dr ABC MBBS(Queensland) MRCP(Edinburg)

 

[prasad1]

I agree with Ms. Renuka's observation. Tamilians who never lived outside TN and then migrated outside India are mostly bitter. That could be because I have come across mostly TB. Tamilians also do not feel for India, that too because of leaders like EVR who was anti-India.