Indesent Dressing by Girls

[Raji Ram]

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.......... See this camel...its wearing clothes! ........

Only half clad camels!!

What about pants, Renu??

 

[renuka]

Only half clad camels!!

What about pants, Renu??

Dear RR ji,

There used to be cartoon in Cartoon Network called Cow and Chicken where both humans parents have a Cow as a daughter and a Chicken as a son.

The cartoon had a theme song:

Mama had a chicken..Mama had a cow,
Dad was proud he didn't care how!


Then there used to be this one character called Red Guy..pic below.

He used to be known as not wearing pants and once he also came as a Doctor and called himself Dr Pantsoffsky!

Here is the theme song...this was my favorite cartoon and I used to watch it almost daily till it the series ended a few years ago.

Check out the Theme Song:


[video=youtube_share;_h8B4ABxUvA]http://youtu.be/_h8B4ABxUvA[/video]

 

[sangom]

Dear Sri Sangom Ji,

You said in post # 258:


Is by chance, these 'any Tom, Dick and Harry' may be named otherwise as KRS, Kunjuppu and Prasad1 ? May be?

Regards,
KRS

There is the famous saying "kuRRamuLLa nenju kuRukuRukkum" !!

 

[auh]

I pretty much think that, given any crime or wrongdoing, the victim is not to be blamed, but the perpetrator. A burglary, murder, fraud are also similar violations, but differing in degrees.

It sounds a lopsided argument that for rape the mentality of men are to be blamed - I think one fundamental point is missed out here - the men, as a general rule, are more virile and hence easily shaken up, which probably, has an influence on them, much similar to alcohol (the momentary passion overrides other considerations). While those who control it can pat their shoulders, others cannot be termed rapists. But even, if some were to blame the others, I think, should not adequate precaution be taken to steer clear of such persons. I think, dressing, in this sense should be decent enough not to provoke such mentalities.

Regards,

 

[prasad1]

This thread is not about indecent dressing by women ( girls?) .

It is not even about rape.

It is actually about how an Indian male is raised often (but not always) in a chauvinistic environment. Their world view is that women have 'assets' that have to be protected by heavy clothing (I truly had a LOL moment somewhere in the thread about the use of the word assets).

These men want to protect the 'assets' from prying eyes of others. Their reasoning is that if she does not comply then she may meet with a punishment which might be rape (which in their world view is not fully justified but somewhat deserved though they do not want to admit their feelings about the 'deserving' part)

For many of such men rape is a bit about sex.

It is not possible to have reasonable conversation with someone who is unaware of their own bias .


For common sense reasons it is best to dress like natives do at any place - it is a show of respect. But linking with the consequence of rape for not dressing properly in their eyes only exposes their built-in bias in my view

Mr Tks,
Well written post.
I know Mr. Sangom is making a point for argument, I am sure he personally does not believe in what he is saying (in his own case). Mr. PJ I believe is defensive because of OP.
Others who are supporting rape (and blaming women) must reflect on their moral values. It is dangerous to have such opinions, you must consult professionals, it might be due to chemical imbalance.

 

[tks]

TKS sir,

So well put. Please see this post . I was in +2 then sitting terrified in the bus when it happened. The lady in question had dressed in a salwar, with a bindi, looked like any other indian clothes-wise but she was not an indian. She probably thot of dressing like a native, and soaking in the native feel, with sights and sounds of a bustling city. I was able to see her face only for few seconds. She looked like she wud faint anytime. Sometimes wonder, what i cud have done.

All adults in that bus were just sitting and watching the show. An old man sitting next to me was giggling, as an offbeat remark he said ''evangella yaen varango'' (why these people (whites) come here). Imagine, if an indian woman is surrounded by white males, gets molested so badly in broad daylight with everyone watching no one helping; what will we do? Blame it on clothes?

I ask every male to think, if you have a daughter or a sister. Who always dressed in salwars and sarees. Lets say she is a traditional housewife from your orthodox home. And she got raped. Wud you still blame it on her clothes? Some will jump the gun and say other reasons for rape exist. One pathetic comment here was that a decently dressed female gets a "chance" to escape. Don't know what to say. Makes me wonder, if these men cannot bring themselves to rape, why they go on contributing support to excuses made by rapists.

Palindrome - I read the post you made reference to. Indeed it is a sad - the India I thought I grew up in is not what it seems when I hear first hand account of such deplorable behaviour. I used to think 'we are the good guys and gals' ..

This kind of tormenting goes on not because of a few bad elements but because of the silent majority that supports this by their own inaction or even worse by promoting a seriously flawed model of morality due to ignorance.

 

[sangom]

Mr Tks,
Well written post.
I know Mr. Sangom is making a point for argument, I am sure he personally does not believe in what he is saying (in his own case).

Dear Shri Prasad,

I may be a sexist, or may even be a "predator" as someone puts it (and if I understand its nuance correctly). But I have grown up in entirely different surroundings and have lived my active life period also in old-world India. Therefore, may be I am failing to see the world and females in the way you or the other supporters of woman's lib in this forum do.

I will echo what Mr. tks has also advised; "For common sense reasons it is best to dress like natives do at any place - it is a show of respect." But I disagree with his last sentence "But linking with the consequence of rape for not dressing properly in their eyes only exposes their built-in bias in my view."

Our discussing this issue here may not benefit anyone - either the woman who insists on dressing in skimpy clothes or the rapist. But the collective wisdom of our Indians who had insisted that women belonging to the three higher castes should cover themselves and not expose themselves, cannot be utter foolishness imo. The lower caste women on the other hand were strictly forbidden from covering their breasts. In old Travancore, the Shannars (present day Nadars) had to engage in a bloody agitation - 1859 - to get their right to do that. May be those women were fodder for wanton rape by upper caste men, but there is no record of it. But when I was young many Malayali women used to have only a thOrthu around their shoulders and it would never cover their upper half. There was no incidence of rape then AFAI can reconstruct from memory. But there was no newspaper, no TV and so it is possible that all rape cases went unreported.

Whatever the accompanying details/actual truth, I firmly believe that women have to be dressed modestly so as not to arouse lust in male onlookers. And what that modesty level is, has to be judged from local customs.

 

[sangom]

Palindrome - I read the post you made reference to. Indeed it is a sad - the India I thought I grew up in is not what it seems when I hear first hand account of such deplorable behaviour. I used to think 'we are the good guys and gals' ..

This kind of tormenting goes on not because of a few bad elements but because of the silent majority that supports this by their own inaction or even worse by promoting a seriously flawed model of morality due to ignorance.

Shri tks sir,

"The India I thought I grew up in is not what it seems", is because in those days women were conscious of their place and importance in society. But over the last several decades, we have persevered in copying the gender model from the western countries which have a very different cultural history from ours. Today, in the name of gender equality, women empowerment and what not, some women have virtually "lost their heads" and are demanding very many utopian rights for themselves and are acting according to their own lights. The result has been that woman has fallen from her place some sixty or seventy years ago, and has come to be viewed as yet another "commodity", a medium for enjoyment and nothing more. Cinemas and TV ads have played a signal role in such "commodification of women" in India. I am told that even the milf notion which has its glorious avataar in the west, is very current in our metros' youth!

But the current fashionable thing to do, among the so-called "emancipated menfolk", is playing second fiddle to such emancipated women and vomit whatever they say. Rape then becomes a psychological aberration, deviant behaviour and so on. If this is true, why not women roam around naked throughout the world? Why do they want clothes at all?

You have talked about the "silent majority". I feel this silent majority - consisting of both men and women who are not yet sold on to the women's empowerment goal - keep quiet exactly because they echo the opinion which Ravi & myself have been writing. It may be "a seriously flawed model of morality" but it is definitely not due to ignorance; it is the morality to which the vastly greater silent majority subscribes to.

 

[kkumar29]

Mr. Sangom,

There you go again blaming the lack of morality because women are copying the western model. I understand that these are your personal opinions, but to me it sounds more like a case of sour grapes. Obviously you have a chip on your shoulder regarding the west and Indians migrating to the west and living there. I would like to point out that you are the first one to post your objections to NRIs advising about India. However you seem to think it is ok for you to dish out nonsense about western culture and morals when you haven't lived there at all (as per your own posts).

I just wanted to point out the contradictions in your own stand. You are entitled to your own opinions, but please don't parade them as having been borne out of your age and experience.

Thanks,
K. Kumar

 

[C RAVI]

Shri tks sir,

"The India I thought I grew up in is not what it seems", is because in those days women were conscious of their place and importance in society. But over the last several decades, we have persevered in copying the gender model from the western countries which have a very different cultural history from ours. Today, in the name of gender equality, women empowerment and what not, some women have virtually "lost their heads" and are demanding very many utopian rights for themselves and are acting according to their own lights. The result has been that woman has fallen from her place some sixty or seventy years ago, and has come to be viewed as yet another "commodity", a medium for enjoyment and nothing more. Cinemas and TV ads have played a signal role in such "commodification of women" in India. I am told that even the milf notion which has its glorious avataar in the west, is very current in our metros' youth!

But the current fashionable thing to do, among the so-called "emancipated menfolk", is playing second fiddle to such emancipated women and vomit whatever they say. Rape then becomes a psychological aberration, deviant behaviour and so on. If this is true, why not women roam around naked throughout the world? Why do they want clothes at all?

You have talked about the "silent majority". I feel this silent majority - consisting of both men and women who are not yet sold on to the women's empowerment goal - keep quiet exactly because they echo the opinion which Ravi & myself have been writing. It may be "a seriously flawed model of morality" but it is definitely not due to ignorance; it is the morality to which the vastly greater silent majority subscribes to.

Well said Sir!! But I don't think that what all you said could be grasped properly by the opposing group.

 

[sangom]

Mr. Sangom,

There you go again blaming the lack of morality because women are copying the western model. I understand that these are your personal opinions, but to me it sounds more like a case of sour grapes. Obviously you have a chip on your shoulder regarding the west and Indians migrating to the west and living there. I would like to point out that you are the first one to post your objections to NRIs advising about India. However you seem to think it is ok for you to dish out nonsense about western culture and morals when you haven't lived there at all (as per your own posts).

I just wanted to point out the contradictions in your own stand. You are entitled to your own opinions, but please don't parade them as having been borne out of your age and experience.

Thanks,
K. Kumar

Shri Kumar,

Kindly be more specific and avoid usages like "there you go again".

I agree that I have not lived in the west. But at the same time what I write is not simply "bunkum" as you seem to think. My three sons live in the west - one in the US for the last more than 20 years (he has got the citizenship) and two in London (both have become British Passport holders because they feel it is advantageous for them.). I had no objection to either their taking up jobs abroad, or to their becoming foreign citizens. This may perhaps suffice for you to change your notion that I am suffering from "sour grapes" syndrome or that I have a chip on my shoulder regarding Indians migrating to the west and living there, etc. I do not like to visit my sons because life in those places does not interest me at all and so I choose to remain here itself and my children visit me according to their convenience. Because I have more or less continuous contact with my sons I do come to know some aspects of the life style there, culture and morals.

Yes, you are quite right that I have objections about the mindless copying of western practices in India but I do not think I have dished out "nonsense about western culture and morals". If you can point out specific instances/examples for supporting this statement and also state why they are nonsense i will definitely look into those posts and let you know why I wrote so.

Thank you for your forthright opinion,

 

[kkumar29]

My responses are in blue.

Shri Kumar,

Kindly be more specific and avoid usages like "there you go again".

Please don't advise me on what phrases to use!

I agree that I have not lived in the west. But at the same time what I write is not simply "bunkum" as you seem to think. My three sons live in the west - one in the US for the last more than 20 years (he has got the citizenship) and two in London (both have become British Passport holders because they feel it is advantageous for them.). I had no objection to either their taking up jobs abroad, or to their becoming foreign citizens. This may perhaps suffice for you to change your notion that I am suffering from "sour grapes" syndrome or that I have a chip on my shoulder regarding Indians migrating to the west and living there, etc. I do not like to visit my sons because life in those places does not interest me at all and so I choose to remain here itself and my children visit me according to their convenience. Because I have more or less continuous contact with my sons I do come to know some aspects of the life style there, culture and morals.

The information is still second hand based on their interpretation, nor does it mean that you have intimately understood the western culture. This might be the cause for your anti-western stand, of late. May be you hate the western culture so much because it lured your sons away. I don't know. I am not here to comment on your personal life.

Yes, you are quite right that I have objections about the mindless copying of western practices in India but I do not think I have dished out "nonsense about western culture and morals". If you can point out specific instances/examples for supporting this statement and also state why they are nonsense i will definitely look into those posts and let you know why I wrote so.

Thank you for your forthright opinion,

This was your reply to Sri TKS:
""The India I thought I grew up in is not what it seems", is because in those days women were conscious of their place and importance in society. But over the last several decades, we have persevered in copying the gender model from the western countries which have a very different cultural history from ours. Today, in the name of gender equality, women empowerment and what not, some women have virtually "lost their heads" and are demanding very many utopian rights for themselves and are acting according to their own lights. The result has been that woman has fallen from her place some sixty or seventy years ago, and has come to be viewed as yet another "commodity", a medium for enjoyment and nothing more. "

This is nonsense and has nothing to do with the context in which TKS was making his post. During late 50's and 60's when I was growing up in Delhi, boys and men would behave exactly as Ms Renuka and Ms Palindrome have described while traveling in buses. This lack of morality is what TKS was referring to and you bring in aping the western culture / model. You figure it out.

I am not here to change your views or opinions, nor am I here to justify every word I write. I post my opinions here just as you do, and I don't expect any justification from you for your opinions.

K. Kumar

 

[Govinda]

Anything that is unique, different, fashion or out-of-norms are attractive.

Those olden days, someone not religious/spiritual was frowned upon, as they evaluate the logic/value behind.
Now, it is the reverse, anything new gets attraction and craze, becos people's brains are polluted (may be after
1970's technology advance)!!

Hope this news piece is relevant to this topic:
Sex Assault: A Crime Against the Young & Attractive?

 

[sangom]

Anything that is unique, different, fashion or out-of-norms are attractive.

Those olden days, someone not religious/spiritual was frowned upon, as they evaluate the logic/value behind.
Now, it is the reverse, anything new gets attraction and craze, becos people's brains are polluted (may be after
1970's technology advance)!!

Hope this news piece is relevant to this topic:
Sex Assault: A Crime Against the Young & Attractive?

Thank you Shri Govinda ji !

One point thrown up by the report is that, at least in the US women also commit sex crimes.

(Older people and women rarely commit sex crimes, but when they do, they also attack young people. "What surprised me was that while women don’t commit crimes as much as men, they, too, attacked young people when they did," Felson said.)

I am now sure that in the near future itself we will hear about such crimes (committed by women) in India too. But I am sure it will not be linked to exposure by boys (15 year olds). !!

 

[biswa]

Justin Bieber: Statutory rape

"What surprised me was that while women don’t commit crimes as much as men, they, too, attacked young people when they did," Felson said.)

I am now sure that in the near future itself we will hear about such crimes (committed by women) in India too. But I am sure it will not be linked to exposure by boys (15 year olds). !!

Corroboration for the above from the most authentic news source in America.

Justin Bieber fan claims singer fathered her child, if true, she may be in trouble for statutory rape | Fox News

The Bieber doth expose himself though in many candid clips.

 

[Govinda]

Thank you Shri Govinda ji !I am now sure that in the near future itself we will hear about such crimes (committed by women) in India too. But I am sure it will not be linked to exposure by boys (15 year olds). !!

You're welcome. I see the criticism behind the joke!

 

[Govinda]

Corroboration for the above from the most authentic news source in America.

Justin Bieber fan claims singer fathered her child, if true, she may be in trouble for statutory rape | Fox News

The Bieber doth expose himself though in many candid clips.

How about the affairs between bollywood and cricket? without exposure lol!

Do you know set-theory? Then, sub-sets like live-inrelationships, movie-crap etc. come under Big Set - sex crimes (culture/value murder).

Lol! I changed my stance!

 

[biswa]

There used to be affairs between cricket and bollywood. Now in the age of IPL quickies, there are just one-night stands between cricketers and ...

 

[Govinda]

There used to be affairs between cricket and bollywood. Now in the age of IPL quickies, there are just one-night stands between cricketers and ...

Are the cheer-girls attractive or not? Are there price-tags and spot-fixing ?

 

[auh]

I posted this in "psycho... of rapists" thread and since it appeared after a few days, I just wanted to bump it here

Hi all,

Felt tempted to login because of the "Indesent dressing..." thread, but found that it has been closed. This thread seems to be kind of rejoinder and hence the reply.

To start off - nobody is a born rapist. They become, by circumstances.

Secondly, it would be pertinent to note that there are two different viewpoints here, one, of that of the individual and the other, of the society (which is nothing but a consensus and can vary over time).

From the viewpoint of an individual, clothing is a personal choice and can vary from "the emperor's new clothes" to a densely wrapped metal sheet. Nobody can/should force an individual on this.

But when individuals who differ vastly in their choices come together, there is bound to be collusion, of thoughts and practices, sometimes desirable and sometimes undesirable. There is no specific logic in this. The "mob" (not to be confused with unruly mob) decides this. Hence the viewpoint of the society becomes relevant here. But this s.v. (society viewpoint) is a complex mix of many factors, tolerance of subgroups, culture, current practices, influence of other societies, flexibility (or rigidity) to name a few. Normally it becomes imperative for an individual not to cross the societal norms.

That is why, in Canada (maybe US also), children cannot be touched as in India, the societal norms are different and override individual choices. Similarly, in india outfits though an individual choice cannot cross the societal norms, but it varies and so we may have the rigid societies, as in villages, where covering is essential, to metros, where fashion takes over. BUT, people, from different societies, mix over freely (a free country, you see!) and there emerges a friction - which is difficult to control. In such a scenario, it would be wise to heed the mood of the society.

Now as to the query as to as to whether an individual would rape a lady if she were to run naked. I think the GOI wouldn't allow any lady to run naked. Secondly, since it is a public phenomenon, nobody would try to rape her, but would immediately rush to cover her and take her on a visit to the police station or to a psychiatrist. Thirdly, there is a possibility of the lady being assaulted (not raped) by unreconciling groups. But, one need not agree with the above, since, they can always do a streak and see for themselves, the results, which for sure wouldn't be pleasing.

Best to all.

 

[Raji Ram]

Want to hear a new technique to steal cloths?

This happened a few years back in Mandaveli in Sing. Chennai. A plump lady used select a terrace with staircase to

reach there, pack up the good sarees and pant - shirts left to dry on the clothlines. If some guy notices her and goes

up to catch her she will start stripping herself! This guy will run down immediately, not to be blamed of molesting her!

Then she rushes with her loot! Howzzzzat!

I could not get the follow up details. Some people wanted to catch her and send to 'Kilpauk' for treatment!

 

[tks]

Shri tks sir,

.
.
.


But the current fashionable thing to do, among the so-called "emancipated menfolk", is playing second fiddle to such emancipated women and vomit whatever they say.

.
.

Sri Sangom ji

Your views above are held by millions all through the world.

But numbers do not make up for what is right (more aptly what is Dharma) so that is irrelevant.

'Women's lib' that you disparagingly have commented here and elsewhere is not really about women.

There have been many militant women who speak on 'women's rights' but they are not really the icons of the issue.

1. Women's lib is not a western notion and it is about human liberation.

2. It is not about both men and women doing the same thing everywhere competing at every place. That is destructive to families and in that sense I agree that the issue is not well understood.

3. It is really not about dress and what people wear.

4. It is about mutual respect that is needed to sustain humanity.

5. In that sense the topic women's right is no different than rights of people from all walks of life regardless of their caste, race, national origin, religion and sexual orientation (which they have no control over).

6. A woman who feels the inner freedom and feels liberated from stereotype putdowns is actually a great human being to be with just like a man who feels inner freedom and feels liberated is unlikely to discount or put down others.

7. By not putting down others these people show maturity in how they relate to others and help themselves to lead a more conflict free life.

I have made many diverse points above and if there is interest we can pursue each of these as time permits

Until then

Thodarum
தொடரும் only if there is further interest ..

 

[Raji Ram]

An astrologer told a man that he will have bad period for five years. That man anxiously asked, 'Will the following

period be good?' to which the reply was, 'No! You will get used to it'! Similarly, some of us feel embarrassed to see

the barely dressed girls / women but may be we will get used to this kind of dress in a few years and won't feel bad!

String back blouses and see through sarees ( covering one side) are hot fashion in Sing. Chennai. May be this is what

our Renu calls 'dress to kill!'

P.S: Shorts and sleeveless T'shirts are used by many brahmin mAmAs!

 

[Raji Ram]

This is new fashion:

[h=3]Images for new fashion sarees and blouses [/h]