Inter caste marriages

[amala]

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Can I just add that it is not just the NB Indians in Malaysia who I agree are particular about minute details of caste probably because they are a large majority and can have their pickings from a wide choice of girls/boys BUT the local TBs in Malaysia who are sooo annoyingly particular about God -knows -what, even when they a local TB alliance.

Then their children go on to marry local Chinese or Malays as Renuji mentioned and these very same parents have an Iyer style wedding, understandably. I always wonder why TB boys parents in Malaysia give such a hard time scrutinising a TB girl, not being satisfied and then tell everyone "what to do, my son wanted" (to marry his Malay/Chinese gf). In many cases the sons got so fed up of their parents fastidiousness that they marry outside the ethnicity never mind caste.

 

[amala]

so true renu..caste does not apply to any non-indian for that matter...no one who marries a white asks him/her for caste either...

i noticed that indians in malaysia are really the old set (who seem to still live in the 60s and 70s)....i dunno if my obervation is wrong, but it looks like the urban ppl in india are far ahead and more progressive thinking than some indian malaysians...

If I may try to explain.

This is probably because Malaysian Indians are "colonial Indians" (as VS Naipaul puts it. They were brought in the late 1880s (I think) as to plant and tap rubber trees in plantations we call rubber estates.
Because they came ages ago their thinking was fixed at that time period and subsequent generations were taught the morality/mindset of those times. They haven't moved on with urban India because they are not from India (the subsequent generations I mean).

This is the same argument and observation people here are having about Indians/Pakistanis/Bandladeshis. They came to the UK in the 60s and are still stuck in that time.

 

[renuka]

Just to add on.
Indians overall practise lots of double standards in Malaysia.
Lots of Indian boys in Malaysia will do a detail scan of an Indian girl before considering marriage.
They only want certified true virigins who have never even laid an eye on a male.
But when it comes to marrying girls of other races they wont mind anything, whether non virgin, divorcee etc.

If an Indian girl here is friendly they lable her with all sorts of names.
If a non indian girl is friendly they call her nice, sporting freindly etc.
Non indian girls will follow them everywhere even for holidays alone and just say they break off later, these guys wont talk anything about them.
but if an Indian guy breaks off with his indian girlfriend he will tell the whole world about it and this might affect her chances of marriage to another person.

you will be suprised to see even the most orthodox brahmanas or non brahmins here marrying and converting and leading a totally different lifestyle and some parents actually accept all these.

all rules and regulations of religion and culture only apply to Indian Hindu girls.

strange it is.

 

[happyhindu]

amala, renu,

thank you for the posts.

yes truly its always the indian girl with whom every yardstick of measurement is applied.

as for inter-religion marriage wrt our children, we recently had a case where my spouse's cousin has chosen to marry a christian guy. (and its not the first case of inter-religion marriage that i know of, in the family circles).

after seeing the turmoil, etc that the parents go thru, and the kind of inability some of us have wrt to adaptability (with these changing times), i wonder if its possible to see our kids following our wishes.

ideally, we wud like to see our own marrying into the hindu fold. but if it does not happen, my spouse and i decided (that if such a thing happens to our kids in future), then we will chose to accept whatever make our children happy. and not fret about it. we can only guide, but not decide for them....

when we were growing up, we (my spouse and i) were not too much into religion (i was spiritually inclined but not so particular abt religion, atleast not as much as i am now) ...so i suppose, the same applies to the younger generations who do not think in terms of religion (and more so in these times when the greatest priority is more or less centred around career building, rather than anything else)....so its all left to god...what can one say, shriman narayana chanow sharanam prapadye..

happiness is so 'relative', ain't it ?

 

[renuka]

Outhere in the place i stay most Indian boys who are married to non indians are mostly earning well, well positioned in life and most of the while good looking too.
Hardly any Non Indian girl marries an Indian who is not earning well or not well placed in society.
Indian boys are kind of preffered becos its a belief that indian men are faithful to their wifes(but trends are changing too).
So a handsome rich Indian is a good catch.
You will never see Romeo & Juliet kind of romance of the interracial kind if the guy is a pauper.

 

[happyhindu]

You will never see Romeo & Juliet kind of romance of the interracial kind if the guy is a pauper.

so true

 

[venkatpasupathy]

Renukaji,
Times are changing. Why inter racial wedding? Even in India Romeo & Juliet kind of love affair is becoming rare. Venkat

 

[sapr333]

I married the first girl I ever kissed. But years down the line, when my children grow up, they gonna laugh at me hearing this . Liar! Liar!, they would say..

And for sure they would just throw up, if I tell them to choose a partner based on caste/creed/religion/lingua/race/geography/culture.

The world is changing... .. Rather, it has changed a lot.

Still, one is free to stick to same-caste/religion marriages.. As someone said, "It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory"

 

[Curious]

IMO, if a group of people has rich culture and tradition, they have to keep marrying within their groups to preserve the culture and tradition. Otherwise, I can only see that marrying within caste helps preserve wealth, status and control.

If inter-caste bride and groom are financially independent and can survive together I could not find a reason why their marriage will fail. Of course the parents of both sides need to mingle with each other. They can only mingle if they are ready to help each other to strengthen their weak areas and see them as one community working towards development of country. After all, there should be focus on developing the country. If the country is developed, I don’t see caste will be in anyone’s priority list.

In any case, personally I feel the decision of the bride and groom matters. The parents can provide guidelines and groom them to make smarter decisions and to become financially strong.


Cheers!

 

[nachi naga]

re

There is only two caste in the whole world. ie man & woman.And marriage is always between these two castes.Rest of the categorisations,is only primitive and clannish worldover.

nachi naga.

 

[subra1970]

:happy:well said

 

[pannvalan]

Can you divide everyone with the common denominator?

Fostering one's culture is different. Sticking to superstitions and dogmas is something else. Let us very clearly understand the distinction.

I repeatedly say a person must be a human being first. He/she must learn to love and respect every other person or living being in this world. That doesn't mean love marriages are to be encouraged or inter-racial or inter-religious marriages are to be openly encouraged and supported.

Love marriages of any sort do happen and are always happening. No one can prevent them too. But, love marriages do not solve the caste problem. Can anyone tell me why the couple of inter-caste wedlock are particular about identifying their son/daughter with either of the caste they (the parents) belong to?

My conclusion is this. Caste system, as long as iit is not divisive and harmful, need not be interfered with. At the individual level, absolutely there is no compulsion for anyone to inherit or wear any caste on his/her self.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Intercaste Marriages

Sir,
There is a recent court decision that the children will take the caste of his father.A person belonging to a caste(other than S/C or S/T community) within HINDU fold married a girl from S.T (tribal) community.His family did not approve the marriage as also the village panchayat.He was forced out of the village and started living with his wife among the tribal community.When his children wanted concession as S/T the court rejected the claim even after pointing out that father is forced to live in tribal community.
The court decidedthat the children will take the caste of the father only.
Though not relating to this topic the case relate to inter religious marriage.A maharastrian Hindu has married a Gujarati Muslim and both follow their respective religion.The muslim boy's father
appears to be a renowned personality with liberal views.
OSHO,AMITAB BACHAN are said to be his admirers.
The couple recently gave birth to a MALE Boy.
Both the parents have taken a decision that the child will choose his religion of his choice once he is mature enough to take his own decision.They had to encounter a problem to get the BIRTH certificate of the child as B.M.C has refused to give a birth certificate without filling up the coloumn "RELIGION'.
The problem has been temporarily solved by indicating' others'
in the religion column but the couple expect to face problem at the time of admitting the child in a School.
B.krishnamurthy

 

[renuka]

Sir,
There is a recent court decision that the children will take the caste of his father.A person belonging to a caste(other than S/C or S/T community) within HINDU fold married a girl from S.T (tribal) community.His family did not approve the marriage as also the village panchayat.He was forced out of the village and started living with his wife among the tribal community.When his children wanted concession as S/T the court rejected the claim even after pointing out that father is forced to live in tribal community.
The court decidedthat the children will take the caste of the father only.
Though not relating to this topic the case relate to inter religious marriage.A maharastrian Hindu has married a Gujarati Muslim and both follow their respective religion.The muslim boy's father
appears to be a renowned personality with liberal views.
OSHO,AMITAB BACHAN are said to be his admirers.
The couple recently gave birth to a MALE Boy.
Both the parents have taken a decision that the child will choose his religion of his choice once he is mature enough to take his own decision.They had to encounter a problem to get the BIRTH certificate of the child as B.M.C has refused to give a birth certificate without filling up the coloumn "RELIGION'.
The problem has been temporarily solved by indicating' others'
in the religion column but the couple expect to face problem at the time of admitting the child in a School.
B.krishnamurthy

I have seen many of such interreligious marriages where the children are allowed to choose a religion at a later part of life and believe me the Hindu always loses out.
I am not a fanatic Hindu but this whole system of choosing religion later just doesnt work.

Its better for the children to follow the fathers religion at least they will have a direction in life.

I am not a supporter of a rigid caste(jati system) but i dont see any harm in anyone maintaining their lifestyle.
Why do we have to go looking for a Non Hindu to marry just to justify we do not believe in the Caste/Jati System.

Love All, Serve All will do fine.
No harm in being your self.

 

[RVR]

Legally father's caste and religion is assigned to the child. The child having an ST community mother and other caste father cannot claim the benefits available to ST community.

All the best

 

[Raman]

Is there any method to conduct upanayanam for a Lingayath boy (karnataka), since he and his family wants to get himself married to a Tamil Iyer girl and they also want it to be conducted by iyer tradition. This is wish of the boy and his relatives. (not from the girl's side). As I understand to do this treditional Iyer marriage, the boy has to have upanayanam first.

 

[vikrama]

Is there any method to conduct upanayanam for a Lingayath boy (karnataka), since he and his family wants to get himself married to a Tamil Iyer girl and they also want it to be conducted by iyer tradition. This is wish of the boy and his relatives. (not from the girl's side). As I understand to do this treditional Iyer marriage, the boy has to have upanayanam first.

Try Arya Samaj.

 

[Raman]

'Inter caste marriages

Dear Mr.Vikarama,

Thanks a lot. I have contacted Arya Samaj and they have confirmed every Sunday they are conducting Agnihotra ritual and during that time they can do the upanayanam and other connected rituals

 

[Vanaja Mani]

Girls shortage great news

Sri Pannvalan,

There is terrific shortage brahmin girls in the market.

I took some statistics from matrimony sites and found out that the ratio of boys to girls is 4 : 1

My assumption may be wrong if girls don't register at matrimony sites and only boys are registering. But some of the Jathaga Parivarthanai Kendrams here at Chennai told me that there is terrific shortage of brahmin girls and confirmed the ratio which I calculated.

Under these circumstances, what is the solution to the problem?

I don't think any miracle is possible to produce girls of the particular age group instantly.

Then what other alternatives available.

You please suggest and I am willing to accept if it is feasible.

All the best

Wow,

How times have changed ! I remember when I was an unmarried girl how many times my father and brothers were ill-treated by prospective grooms' relatives. This was in the late 80s.

I particularly remember the following three instances:

One groom's father questioned aggressively why my father did not take up more promotions in his job as an officer in the Reserve bank of India. He made my father feel inferior to him as he retired as a class B officer in a bank as opposed to my father who retired as a Class A officer.

Another groom's mother and father brought out all the pattu saris of their elder daughter in-law and measured the length of the jarigai. All of her silver and gold jewellary were similarly displayed with heavy hints that they expect the second daughter-in-law to bring similar amounts of 'seer'.

Another groom's father insisted that their elderly mama who could not climb stairs should see the girl first. We lived in the third floor. They arrived after sunset. I was asked to come down and a torch was requested to be lit on my person , so the elderly gentleman could see me! I cannot believe I subjected myself to such treatment, not withstanding the fact that I was a post-graduate with a decent job in the Government of India, appearing in the IAS main exams that year!!

I am glad the wheels of time have changed as Vijay says in the movie 'Tirumalai' - "Vaazhkai oru vattam, keezhe irukkuravan mele varuvan, mele irukkuravan keezhe povaan' etc.

Hip Hip Hurray for our girls, make the most of the enviable position you are in today!

(Sorry to the men and prospective grooms who frequent this website)

P:S I am now happily married to a lovely person (same caste) who treated me first as a person , an equal, when compared to all those alliances I had to encounter before finding Mr. Right.

I do have to thank all those prospective grooms and their relatives for keeping our marriage peaceful. Whenever I feel like fighting with my husband, I think what would have been my fate if I had married any of those grooms.

Vanaja

 

[RVR]

Mrs. Vanaja,

My father had similar experience in getting my four sisters married. For the two younger sisters, both my brother and me were there to help him but it was a hectic job.

It only reminds me of a old tamil proverb

யானைக்கு ஒரு காலம் வந்தால் பூனைக்கு ஒரு காலம் வரும்

It is not just elephant which alone will enjoy good time, even a cat will get a good time.

But at the same behavior of girls and their parents today is also very bad.

Each one of us are born with brother, sister, daughter and son. We have to look at the problem as a whole and behave in a decent manner.

All the best

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Mrs. Vanaja,

Each one of us are born with brother, sister, daughter and son. We have to look at the problem as a whole and behave in a decent manner.

All the best

I totally agree Sri RVR .

The world is always full of opposites. Right and wrong, black and white, Tall and short, Bitter and Sweet.......

In fact it is only when we taste the bitter,or sour, the sweet tastes sweeter.

So holding on negative emotions and drawing conclusions from isolated incidents -- is not the right for any one. The degree of emotions and responses also change based on age ,experience, our role at different times etc...

Empathy if practised helps us to see things mostly right...

Greetings..

 

[kunjuppu]

Wow,

How times have changed ! I remember when I was an unmarried girl how many times my father and brothers were ill-treated by prospective grooms' relatives. This was in the late 80s.

I particularly remember the following three instances:

One groom's father questioned aggressively why my father did not take up more promotions in his job as an officer in the Reserve bank of India. He made my father feel inferior to him as he retired as a class B officer in a bank as opposed to my father who retired as a Class A officer.

Another groom's mother and father brought out all the pattu saris of their elder daughter in-law and measured the length of the jarigai. All of her silver and gold jewellary were similarly displayed with heavy hints that they expect the second daughter-in-law to bring similar amounts of 'seer'.

Another groom's father insisted that their elderly mama who could not climb stairs should see the girl first. We lived in the third floor. They arrived after sunset. I was asked to come down and a torch was requested to be lit on my person , so the elderly gentleman could see me! I cannot believe I subjected myself to such treatment, not withstanding the fact that I was a post-graduate with a decent job in the Government of India, appearing in the IAS main exams that year!!

I am glad the wheels of time have changed as Vijay says in the movie 'Tirumalai' - "Vaazhkai oru vattam, keezhe irukkuravan mele varuvan, mele irukkuravan keezhe povaan' etc.

Hip Hip Hurray for our girls, make the most of the enviable position you are in today!

(Sorry to the men and prospective grooms who frequent this website)

P:S I am now happily married to a lovely person (same caste) who treated me first as a person , an equal, when compared to all those alliances I had to encounter before finding Mr. Right.

I do have to thank all those prospective grooms and their relatives for keeping our marriage peaceful. Whenever I feel like fighting with my husband, I think what would have been my fate if I had married any of those grooms.

Vanaja

well said vanaja. i come from a very similar family background ie more girls in the years past than boys. my dad, had to struggle to get his 4 neices married off, with little or no money.

when i see today's guys moan, while i feel sorry for these guys as it is not their fault, i feel that our parents are vindicted finally.

we do inherit the sins of our forefathers

what is surprising, is the sense of indignation among the many of the boys' parents. they will not change their views re offering to pay atleast 50% of the marriage total costs (including jewellery etc). moreover, they will rather their sons remain bachelors, than looking outside the TB caste.

oh well!!!!!

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Inter Caste marriages

Sir,
Being father of four daughters from TB community,I had similar painful experiences while trying to select suitable alliances for my daughters.
The behaviour and attitude of boys' parents in many cases was not a
welcome one and parents of many girls were looked at contemptuously.
By god's grace I could marry all my daughters within the TB community
and they are leading a happy married life.
I have seen in many families with more daughters and one son, the son who has witnessed the mental sufferings of parents during the marriage
of his sisters is not inclined to marry from the same community and prefers to choose a girl of his choice from another community.
Recently when I visited my 'SAMBHANDI" in Srirangam, a lady residing in another flat visited and joined in the conversation. I visited their flat on
invitation and found that her first daughter had recently delivered a female child.When I interacted with the girl I was told that she and her
sister(only two daughters for their parents) had selected boys from outside the TB community and married, and both of them are happy.
Then she informed me about the abnormal behaviour of parents of BOYS
from TB community which forces many TB girls to choose life partners from other than TB community.I feel every parent of TB GIRLS and BOYS should ponder over this aspect and change their MINDSET.
BK

 

[tbs]

hi folks,
i had experienced another side of same coin...when a mother
was planning for her only son's marriage within TB community girls..
the mother said that i have only son....no dowry/seer or anything
required...not even single paisa of varadakhinai...but many girl's
parents rejected her proposal...thinking/saying that there is some
problem with her son.......but the son was highly qualified with
govt job in 80's....they all blamed this poor brahmin lady....saying that
they like to give jewllery with vaira thodu....but this lady rejected
that offer....got a nice girl from noth indian TB girl...due to
problem with south based problems...so this is not always
from boy's side...the economical theory....SUPPLY AND DEMAND...

regards
tbs

 

[RVR]

I wish our TB boys marry brahmins girls from other than Tamil speaking brahmin girls.

Blaming the present generation boys for some thing happened in the previous generations is ridiculous. What is the difference between Dravidiyan parties policies and the present generation girl side policies.

All the best