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Inter caste marriages
- Thread starter pannvalan
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renuka
Well-known member
Dear all,
If society chooses to play the blame game...it will have severe consequences.
Instead of playing "I blame you,You blame me"...why dont all these issues be dealt with.
Maybe in the upcoming Vivaha Sangamam get a guest speaker to address this issue in a diplomatic way and maybe get expert opinions with respects to number of unmarried men and women,moral decay,infertility in late marriages....the list can go on.
Maybe the speaker can also compare and contrast life/marriage/demands of yesteryears and the acute present.
Also the evolution of the human mindset and society should be stressed upon and the importance of Education in Human Values and not just academic brilliance and wealth should be addressed.
Everyone should also remember that we cannnot expect to be like the perfect couple of the Treta Yuga....
If society chooses to play the blame game...it will have severe consequences.
Instead of playing "I blame you,You blame me"...why dont all these issues be dealt with.
Maybe in the upcoming Vivaha Sangamam get a guest speaker to address this issue in a diplomatic way and maybe get expert opinions with respects to number of unmarried men and women,moral decay,infertility in late marriages....the list can go on.
Maybe the speaker can also compare and contrast life/marriage/demands of yesteryears and the acute present.
Also the evolution of the human mindset and society should be stressed upon and the importance of Education in Human Values and not just academic brilliance and wealth should be addressed.
Everyone should also remember that we cannnot expect to be like the perfect couple of the Treta Yuga....
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RVR
0
It is a wonderful suggestion.
But if we talk about any reforms in the event, we may loose focus and the event may also be brought to a grinding halt.
There are lot of sub-sects within the TB community. We always tell people to give up sub-sects with immediate effect. While this is not objected by the participants, talking anything beyond this at this point of time may have negative consequences.
Our events at best brake the back bone of commercial matrimony sites which charges exorbitant fees without any commitment to the subscribers. On the other hand, we just charge very low fee just to cover the expenses and lot of families are brought together at the stage itself.
We have just concluded two events and are planning a third one at Coimbatore.
Even in this forum, I am repeatedly writing that TB community should accept alliances from brahmins speaking other languages but there are few takers for my proposal.
My limited experience has taught me the following conclusions:
TB community within Tamilnadu is still tied to sub-sect phenomena.
TB community outside Tamilnadu but within India have given up sub-sect phenomena but they have not given up brahmincal way of life.
TB community who have migrated to western world generations back are open to all the reforms.
There may exceptions in all the above cases.
Our main goal at present is to bring the mindset of TB community outside Tamilnadu to the TB community within Tamilnadu. Attempting anything beyond this at this point of time is not going to work.
I wish people who have migrated to the western world generations back should not interfere with the way TB community within India are living. It is better for them as well as TB community living in India.
All the best
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renuka
Well-known member
Dear RVR anna,
Dont call it a Reform or even a Revolution...when we use these 2
R's we only get another R--Reprecusssion(of the serious kind).
Keep it as a short talk only....without implicating any one or any subsect directly or indirectly.
Make it sound a bit proffesional and dont get a speaker who is emotional with a bitter past...because then all hell will break loose with vadams and prativadams.
renu
RVR
0
Sister Renuka,
Definitely we shall keep your suggestions in mind and deliver it in an forum at appropriate manner.
Thank you once again
All the best
C RAVI
0
Sri RVR ji,
Since the subject of this thread is “Inter-cast marriages” and we had good number of discussions in favor, against and the reasons and since there are some suggestions and plans for proposed Swayamwarams and for reformation of the society in future, I would like to express my opinion on the same.
I think all the Swayamwarams that www.tamilbrahmins.com is organising and is planning to organise are all exclusively for the Tamil Brahmins OR we can say for the whole of Brahmin community (irrespective of their Mother tongue).
I think if that is the case we need not to worry about propoganding inter-cast marriages and do any sort of Reformation & Revolution to promote inter-cast marriages under the banner of www.tamilbrahmins.com
If we want to bring revolution to the over all Hindu Society, than we can do the same under a new banner of www.hindussociety.com. Just a suggestion. This would be apt to bring about revolution of inter-cast marriages, that we may plan in future.
By the way I would appreciate if you could clarify some of my doubts listed below.
1) Is this Forum exclusively dedicated to promote and sustaining Brahmin society?
2) Is this Forum to understand the Brahmin tradition & culture, and dedicated to provide a platform for the members to share their knowledge & information?
3) Is this Forum focused to educate existing Non-Vedic Brahmin Community to get dissolved and just be one among NB's and just to be Hindus?
The clarification on above doubts, I believe would help each of us to contribute in this Forum unanimously and more constructively.
Since the subject of this thread is “Inter-cast marriages” and we had good number of discussions in favor, against and the reasons and since there are some suggestions and plans for proposed Swayamwarams and for reformation of the society in future, I would like to express my opinion on the same.
I think all the Swayamwarams that www.tamilbrahmins.com is organising and is planning to organise are all exclusively for the Tamil Brahmins OR we can say for the whole of Brahmin community (irrespective of their Mother tongue).
I think if that is the case we need not to worry about propoganding inter-cast marriages and do any sort of Reformation & Revolution to promote inter-cast marriages under the banner of www.tamilbrahmins.com
If we want to bring revolution to the over all Hindu Society, than we can do the same under a new banner of www.hindussociety.com. Just a suggestion. This would be apt to bring about revolution of inter-cast marriages, that we may plan in future.
By the way I would appreciate if you could clarify some of my doubts listed below.
1) Is this Forum exclusively dedicated to promote and sustaining Brahmin society?
2) Is this Forum to understand the Brahmin tradition & culture, and dedicated to provide a platform for the members to share their knowledge & information?
3) Is this Forum focused to educate existing Non-Vedic Brahmin Community to get dissolved and just be one among NB's and just to be Hindus?
The clarification on above doubts, I believe would help each of us to contribute in this Forum unanimously and more constructively.
RVR
0
Sri C Ravi,
You are putting me in an embarrassing situation. I cannot answer all your questions regarding this forum and only the forum administrators can answer your questions. But it is my wish list which may or may not go with the administrators of this forum
1 Let us promote unity of our community through this forum. Unity of our community is the need of the hour.
2.Let us promote our culture, values etc with a modern outlook.
3. Most of us including me are not practicing our Vedic traditions. But at the same time, let us try to keep the core values of our community alive and preserve it. Let us try to be more involved with our vedic practices at least after retirement.
It is only my wish list and again I am telling you, I cannot answer on behalf of the forum.
All the best
C RAVI
0
Sri RVR ji'
Kindly excuse me to put you in an embarrassing situation. In fact, I truly didn't mean to put you in any such situation.
You have an ardent fan in me.
My opinions are the same as that of yours...And I am glad to have your response flawlessly to the extent under your capacity.
So, I believe almost all of our members are participating and debating in this Forum with out having any clear idea of the ultimate purpose of this Forum and heading towards unidentified destination.
Either we are blindly marching ahead innocently or we are just passing our time here unmindful of any purpose.
renuka
Well-known member
Dear RaviJi,
When I was suggesting in my earlier post to address the problems faced instead of playing the blame game...I was not promoting intercaste marriage at any stage.
I hope you did not misunderstand my post.
I was just giving suggestions as a neutral person...as for me I was just trying to help out a little and caste is immaterial to me... my personal believe is all of us are just waves in the ocean of Samsara.
I can totally understand your fierce concern for your caste,community and culture..
a quality I admire as you also speak you mind out here.
But problems which are left unsolved can move the plate tectonics of society and trigger a quake of high Richter magnitude only to cause of a Tsunami in the already Turbulent Ocean of Samsara.
renu
When I was suggesting in my earlier post to address the problems faced instead of playing the blame game...I was not promoting intercaste marriage at any stage.
I hope you did not misunderstand my post.
I was just giving suggestions as a neutral person...as for me I was just trying to help out a little and caste is immaterial to me... my personal believe is all of us are just waves in the ocean of Samsara.
I can totally understand your fierce concern for your caste,community and culture..
a quality I admire as you also speak you mind out here.
But problems which are left unsolved can move the plate tectonics of society and trigger a quake of high Richter magnitude only to cause of a Tsunami in the already Turbulent Ocean of Samsara.
renu
C RAVI
0
Dr. Renuka ji,
Every one should express their true self and that is admirable. I too appreciate your composed and philosophically inclined attitude for a perfect and peaceful life.
For sure I have not misunderstood your post.
I just needed clarification on the type of reformation and revolution that can be planned through Swayamwarams, as the same has been intended under this thread - "Inter cast marriages"
Dr.Renuka ji,
I need to tell you and others one thing for your statement - "I can totally understand your fierce concern for your caste, community and culture.."
We need to agree that -
1) Some people would pretend to be against their own cast, community and culture to show off that they truly love others.
2) Some people would really be fiercefull to endorse and try to advocate their own cast, community and culture and would have a sense of discrimination against others openly.
3) Some people would really be keen to enjoy their own cast, community and culture without any discrimination and hatred for other community. Most of these people would not bother what others from with-in the community are doing and where the community is heading.
4) Some people would really be keen to enjoy and respect their own cast, community and culture without any discrimination to others, but would keep an eye on their own community people to see what the community demands and what would be practically possible to live within the community set-up in harmony. One's life is purely based on one's own family set up and the society one belongs to. So this category of people would take all the efforts to understand their own society and accept the system to strengthen that specific whole society unanimously, hand-in-glow.
I fall under 4th category. I am neither cynical about my own and other casts, community and culture nor a hypocrite. I am neither burdened or obsessed with my cast, community and culture nor I am poisoned with hatred and discriminations against other cast, community and culture.
I wish people from each society should fall under fourth category that would help their own community to prosper and live in harmony with others with-in the community and other communities.
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Raviji,
I fully agree with you...but I want to disagree on one point here...
Please rearrange the categories... and add one more category...
The 4th category should be placed 1st for all to see and emulate....
The last but not the least category which should be added is the category that just wishes Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu and keeps an eye on the whole world with no harmful intent or any hopeful benefit.
renu
venkat,
good points ie presenting the current TB mindset in tamil nadu to folks like us, who are in the west & a generation removed from the mother land.
what i do not understand is the inference to 'interference by folks like us'. i did not think that we had any power to influence let alone interfere to what people do in their private life, practices or beliefs.
in fact, if at all any such interference will come from folks in a position to influence like the local astrologers (whom i think have a lot of influence) or organizers of such functions like swayamvarams.
for example, re the current plight of our bachelors, it has been the norm of folks like you yourself, to exhort the parents/boys to eschew the fanatic attachment to subsects. it is a small stream to cross, but the traditions are so strong for events like birth/marriage/death that from what i gather, the influence has been nil.
i, for one accept the fact, that even though of TB heritage, albeit via palghat, since i reside in the west, i am more than aware of the sensitivities of the folks back home, and also being perceived as arrogant or at the worst insolent.
to that extent, this forum has treated me and such folks like me, not as honoured guests, but as a member of the same family. for which i am grateful.
however, any calls for change, emanating from me, is more a reaction to the situations of our TB folk. to be trite, 'all is not well in the state of denmark'.
re marriage, we have apparently exchanged one set of bad practices with another, and with the old mindset preserved, we have a disastrous situtation at hand re exponentially reduced birthrates for the next generation.
in short, we are going, i think, the parsi way. one would be surprised how quickly within a few years, a way of life passes. one can see it in the west, where i think, 1 out 4 weddings is a white marrying a non white. this, from a culture, which for the past 500 years wallowed in the concept of white superiority.
so, dear venkat, let those of us, who care about the residuals of our TB community, when we make some observations, treat them just that. observations. not interference.
hope this clarifies.
thank you.
RVR
0
kunjuppu ji,
I am very much convinced that there is shortage of girls as compared to boys eligible for marriage within TB community.
Inspite of actively getting involved in the swayamvaram functions, I have no magic solutions to the problem.
I earnestly feel that our boys can marry girls from other language speaking brahmin girls. I don't think parents should have any objection considering the ground realities.
UP, Uttranchal, Delhi, Himachal and few other states have more than 10% brahmin population. Condition of brahmins in north india is not as prosperous as compared to South India.
Let our TB brahmin boys marry poor brahmin girls from these area. Let us atleast break the language barrier first.
I am openly inviting brahmin boys who are willing to marry brahmin girls from Hindi speaking areas.
If sufficient number is forthcoming, let us try to organize a swayamvaram at Delhi or some other place in North India.
Let every body has the satisfaction that they have made alliances within brahmin community only.
This will be a major step at this point of time.
Definitely bringing other than brahmin community people in our swayamvaram functions is not possible at this point of time.. Since some suggestions were made regarding bringing other communities to our swayamvaram function from people who are living in the western world, I am forced to write that let them not interfere. Personally I don't have any hard feelings. Most of my relatives are in USA, Australia and other countries. Majority of them have not given up caste.
I am only making alternate suggestions to overcome the problem which should be acceptable to parents of brahmin boys without any inhibition.
Once again, I request you not to take anything personally and I welcome your suggestions at the right earnest.
All the best
I am very much convinced that there is shortage of girls as compared to boys eligible for marriage within TB community.
Inspite of actively getting involved in the swayamvaram functions, I have no magic solutions to the problem.
I earnestly feel that our boys can marry girls from other language speaking brahmin girls. I don't think parents should have any objection considering the ground realities.
UP, Uttranchal, Delhi, Himachal and few other states have more than 10% brahmin population. Condition of brahmins in north india is not as prosperous as compared to South India.
Let our TB brahmin boys marry poor brahmin girls from these area. Let us atleast break the language barrier first.
I am openly inviting brahmin boys who are willing to marry brahmin girls from Hindi speaking areas.
If sufficient number is forthcoming, let us try to organize a swayamvaram at Delhi or some other place in North India.
Let every body has the satisfaction that they have made alliances within brahmin community only.
This will be a major step at this point of time.
Definitely bringing other than brahmin community people in our swayamvaram functions is not possible at this point of time.. Since some suggestions were made regarding bringing other communities to our swayamvaram function from people who are living in the western world, I am forced to write that let them not interfere. Personally I don't have any hard feelings. Most of my relatives are in USA, Australia and other countries. Majority of them have not given up caste.
I am only making alternate suggestions to overcome the problem which should be acceptable to parents of brahmin boys without any inhibition.
Once again, I request you not to take anything personally and I welcome your suggestions at the right earnest.
All the best
S
SuryaKasyapa
Guest
Sri Ravi,
I appreciate many of your posts , which reflect on some genuine concerns. Your recent posts are positive and well focussed on some mutually beneficial matters of the community. However, sometimes, even a relatively low key, well meant opinion or reference can be exploited by vested interests for their own favour.
It is in this context that I view Smt Renuka ji 's sober counsel.
Sometimes "adakki vaasikkarathu" may be prudent and practical.
As the King Solomon's story shows us, it is the genuine and sincere who will lose the cause( but only temporarily). A genuine mother will have her child live anywhere with anybody rather than kill it to win her side... So the real sincere will rather happily lose some arguments, or deliberate vilification, just to save the genuine cause.
Macro action may not be immediately successful with all the restraints our community faces. So let us continue with microlevel actions,
Like in nordinary life also:-- Vattam, maavattam, maakaanam ,maanilam etc...
Now regarding the 3 questions posed by you(quoted above)- I copy the mission as given in this site.
Quote:
Tamilbrahmins.com is a website/forum that provides a stage for Tamil Brahmins spread across the world to network and interact with one another on issues related to the development and well-being of the community. Our goal is to enable global, progressive and modern ways of thinking by spreading awareness about opportunities and challenges unique to Brahmins. Our objective is to help achieve unity and strength by recognizing individual members’ achievements and channelizing their contributions, both material and non-material, to the underserved sections of the community.
Recognizing the communal need to rediscover our roots and develop our identity in the contemporary world we strongly encourage the exchange of ideas on several issues such as our heritage, education, employment opportunities and representation of the community in the media. We focus special attention on issues that present in-depth views of the history of the community so that we may learn facts and balanced views about Brahmins and recognize uninformed opinions in our day-to-day lives.
We promote efforts at helping the needy in the Brahmin community by rendering any suitable assistance through available resources. Tamilbrahmins.com advocates respectful co-existence with other communities and encourages the use of polite language in all of its members.
UNQUOTE
Let us accept it in full face value, and also understand the spirit behind it. Let us strive to be maximum positive and effective within the framework. Let not distractions(in whatever way it comes- even provocations) deter us from our goal. It may be only a straw ...but it is better than no straw at all...
Ultimately sincere and true efforts get success.
Greetings.
Dear Ravi,
I know this was addressed to Rekkaji but if I may take issue with the first category. i'd just like to say that some people don't have to PRETEND, the word which i take issue with here. They could be really against caste or anything divisive and really truly love others.
You should give them the benefit of the doubt.
C RAVI
0
Dear Amala,
Never mind whom I am addressing too. We are here to share with each other.
You are true Amala....
There are many many probabilities....
Benefit of doubt should be given to each category.
By giving such benift of doubt, I believe it would be tough to list out the whole possible categories.
I have highlighted some category that are truely existing.
C RAVI
0
Sri Suryakasyapa,
I truely appreciate your sense of moderation.
If not mistaken I would like to suggest you some more appropriate Tamil terms what may help you to express your deep contempt in future with the member who found to be upseting others without valid reasons. For example - "Poththu", "Moodikittu po". All these will give a sense of very stong negative criticism to others in a very peculiar way and can help you to express yourself more better.
I appreciate your true concern about this Forum's agenda.
I would be very much happy if each member of this forum are sticking on to it.
Let us hope for the best.
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