intercaste marriage

[RVR]

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Differences in various philosophies in Hindu religion are nothing but various branches of the same tree. Veda Vyasa is the origion and root of all philosophies.

Parmacharyal has beautifully explained the above in Deivathin Kural. The extracts are as follows:

14. Coming back to Brhma Sutra, Sankarar (Adwaita), Ramanujar (Visishtadwaita), Madhvar (Dwaita), Mei Kandar (Saiva Siddhanta), and Vallabhacharyar (Krishna Bakthi Marga), have all interpreted Brhma Sutra, as per their Siddhanta or principled stand. In the Pandita world, Brhma Sutra has its own special importance!
15. We people who call ourselves Hindus, somehow or other, belong to one of the above divisions of Siddhanta. By this, it does not mean that we are devided. Branches of a tree, will grow towards different directions. But, does it mean that they are not one and the same tree? The trunk and roots are the same. For all these branches, the basis is the same great Maha Purusha, Vyasa. 'Moolam' means root. The moola purusha is Vyasa Bhagawan. To-day, the basic reason for our being, at least this much religious, are the seeds sown by Veda Vyasa then.
16. There is nothing wrong in us Hindus, being different philosophically. Let us be holding on to the ideas, such as, "I am Adwaiti, my Guru is Sankara; you are a Dwaiti, your Guru is Madhva; he is a Visishtadwaiti, his Guru is Ramanuja; that man is a Saiva Siddhanti, his Guru is Sri Meikandar; that other man is a Krishna Baktha, his Guru is Vallabhacharya; and so on." Since there are many views and ideas, there is nothing wrong in analysing them. But whatever be the difference, whatever be the branch of philosophy; we are all bounden by the duty to, hang Vyasa Bhagawan's photo around our neck and have a parade around the city streets.

All the best

 

[saidevo]

namaste Iyest.

Beautiful, the moon and the fingers example. I totally agree with you that we need to look beyond the limitations of analogies for real knowledge.

The knower, known and knowledge components of perception in practical reality are much talked about in Advaita, which establishes that they merge into the Absolute Reality when avidyA goes. In other words, when the Self is realized, there is nothing, that is, no thing, to know about. Since the rajju-sarpam example eminently establishes the relationship between the three components of practical reality, I tried to give an analysis of it, that's all.

 

[Iyest]

namaste Iyest.

Beautiful, the moon and the fingers example. I totally agree with you that we need to look beyond the limitations of analogies for real knowledge.

The knower, known and knowledge components of perception in practical reality are much talked about in Advaita, which establishes that they merge into the Absolute Reality when avidyA goes. In other words, when the Self is realized, there is nothing, that is, no thing, to know about. Since the rajju-sarpam example eminently establishes the relationship between the three components of practical reality, I tried to give an analysis of it, that's all.

Yes, I have no problem with the specific example. We must also realize that if a particular example is not satisfactory to an individual due to his vasanas, we can point out other examples that may seem more reasonable for him. What is more important is to ask 'why my mind accepts some examples, not others?' This might be helpful to directly face the ignorance and illusions of our mind which is the first baby step in exploring reality. By the way, in Ulladu Narpadu Ramana Maharshi has given more examples/questions some of which may be more acceptable to some people.

1. To begin with, it needs to be considered why the world is taken to be real. For the burden of proving the reality of the world lies on him that asserts it

2. Everyone who is ignorant thinks the world is real because it is seen. This is no proof because it proves too much. The same reason would prove the reality of the mirage, the rope in the snake, etc.

3. The fact of being seen is not conclusive proof that the world exists exactly as imagined [by the seer].

4. Every creature first identifies his own Self with the body, and thereby concludes that the body is real. Then it comes to believe that all forms that are seen are also real.

5. One’s own body and the world are one [indivisible] spectacle; either they are both seen together, or they are both not seen.

6. Everyone sees both his own body and the world through the eye, which is a part of that very body. How can this seeing be admissible as evidence in this enquiry about the reality of the world? Since the body is a part of the world, its reality is also in question. It cannot be assumed without proof.

 

[Nara]

...I see the Advaitam Vs Vishisthaadvaitam fight has started again..way to go man...

Renu, As you know, I am not much of a fan of either Advaitam or VA, to me both are based on speculations by a bunch of bright and curious people long time ago. We are now engaging in quite a lot of intellectual mas&#@! ahem ahem, self-gratification (ISG) arguing about completely useless stuff. This is why for the common people all this is வறட்டு வேதாந்த்தம். But I enjoy a little bit of ISG myself now and then, and that is why I engage in it. This is not my cause passionate, social reform is.

One more thing, like a good mongrel I have been sniffing around for a long time and was never hesitant to explore and change my mind when something made more sense. I am not married to a particular idea just because I was born into it. If a cogent argument that make sense is presented I will not hesitate to change my position.

Now, for a little ISG of my own, analogies are fine as long as they help understand a point being explained or argued. The rope/snake analogy raises more questions than it answers about Advaitam.

When I point this out I am told am wrong! Is that it, I am wrong? Why am I wrong? More analogy for this -- finger-moon analogy. I can turn this finger-moon thing back and say you are pointing your finger at the moon and saying neither the finger nor the moon exists.

Analogies prove nothing.

A more fundamental problem is the role of pramanam themselves. In as much as we perceive a variegated universe which contradicts Advaitam in the most powerful way, pratyaksham cannot be and is not an accepted pramanam for Advaitam, For them, pratyaksham is fatally flawed, and therefore Shruti is the only pramanam; even that has to fall by the way side in the ultimate, but that is a different point.

If pratyaksham is fatally flawed how do you even ascertain the Vedas flawlessly? Without the aid of fully reliable perception Shruti cannot be perceived without fault and therefore Shruti itself cannot be a pramanam as there is no way of perceiving Shruti flawlessly. It is self-serving if you want to concede perception as pramana only for Shruti.

There are many such internal contradictions in Advaitam. A or VA, or D, they all are the same to me, except that I am familiar with VA a lot more and I admire Bhagavat Ramanuja for he was a great revolutionary in his own way. My intention is not put anybody down or up, just to present the logical problems in all these schools of philosophy.

Cheers!

 

[nachi naga]

saidevo sairam

It is indeed a supreme irony that an analogy with three entities, each with several attributes, is used to assert an advaitic Brahmman devoid of any attributes.

finally a brilliant quote from a brilliant man.mahaswamigal told my grand-uncle this,only by experiance on a individual unique way,advaitham's purport can be realised.a born muslim,who is raised by brahmins,understand and preaches,sanathana dharma to the world untill 1918.thereby allowing inter-religion marriages taking place,so that oneness of god ,can be understood.from 1926 ,the uniqueness of each religion,to follow them as per scriptures in a way of life aka sanathana dharma,allowing inter-caste marriage,which finally strengthens either one of the castes for future generations to come.no matter caste is a permanent fixture in all religions,despite innumerous ways of denying it.

 

[nachi naga]

Hey if you have a problem turning off the light..thats only good for you...becos its Tamaso Ma Jyotir Gamaya

renu,


ignorance to enlightenment,and that is what LOrd Shiva does.Destroys tama gunam or tamasam or avidya.

not literally from darkness to light,imo.

light is presence in darkness,so it is visible by naked eye.the light is ever effulgent and regenerative adityam.as long as we maintain a safe closeness from adityam,we enjoy the warmth.if we get too close to aityam we will get combusted.

brahmin as a caste is just a personality trait inherent in a human,and asked to follow and preach brahman gnyanam.only sagunam brahman gnyanam can be preached by brahmins.with the present state of affairs,each individual strives to be independent to make a living,in life.

caste is just identity marker.since brahmin as a caste is being perceived as a way of life,brahmin by birth and brahmin by way of life,are two differeing ways of life.in india,brahmin by birth is being competeted,and amongst brahmin by birth,there are n number of rules and regulations,which have healthy competetion amongst themselves.

like brahmin by birth,in tamizh nadu,is popular with being vegetarians.so if brahmin by birth eats meat,the veggies brahmins get upset.now in the fray are,veggies of vaishyas,kshatriyas,shudras get upset.instead of catching hold of the killer of the meat,the consumer is screwed.

marriage between intercaste is the way of things now,dunno about future.

p.s. intercaste = vadama,vaathima,brihashranam...vadagalai,thenkalai....

 

[RVR]

Tholkappiyam is suppose to be a work of 8th Century BC. The following stanza talks about Brahmins.

அறுவகைப்பட்ட பார்பன பக்கமும்
ஐவகை மரபின் அரசர் பக்கமும்
இருமூன்று மரபின் ஏனோர் பக்கமும்

It talks about Brahmins, Kshatrias and other two varnas.

The meaning for the word Paarpanar is explained as follows

paarpanar - seer (one who can foretell things, philosopher)

andhaNar, vEdhiyar, paarppanar, battar and BrahmaNar

Hence classification of different communities within the Tamil tribe was very much there almost 3000 years back.

Since Brahmins were looked upon as intellectuals & philosophers by the Kshatria Kings, they were treated at a different level.

We as a community has to keep the respect by following the principles of Brahminism. If we give up the principles of Brahminism, then we should not expect the same respect from other communities.

Today Brahmins are mad after money and hence losing the respect from other communities. Brahmins should not go after money and should try to live happily with what they have.

All the best

 

[nachi naga]

rvr

Today Brahmins are mad after money and hence losing the respect from other communities. Brahmins should not go after money and should try to live happily with what they have.

i am sorry i do not accept your view.brahmins are literally struggling to eke out a living,wit dignity and honor.plus all the nakkal nayandi thanam of nb's is disgusting.our women are ridiuculed.by grace of our guru,with grace poise,these indignities are being borne by our young men and women,and try to escape away from all this tyranical,corrupt despot regimes,which gets vicarious pleasures in listening to aliens and stashing their corrupt loot in swiss banks.a show is being put with no infrastructural quality of life being put for citizens.

 

[RVR]

According to an interpretor, the six duties assigned to Brahmins as per Tholkappiam are as follows:

Brahmins are suppose to recite Vedhas.

Brahmins are suppose to teach Vedhas

Brahmins are suppose to Perform Yagnas for Lokakshema

Brahmins are suppose to help others perform Yagnas

Brahmins are suppose to donate others.

Brahmins can accept donations from others.

If the above are followed, then he is considered as a brahmin.

Just about 160 years back `Thiagayya' lived in this world with `Unchavarthi' offerings and refused money or position of the then King. He even composed a song `Nidhi Saala Sugama'. He preferred the lotus feet of Lord Rama as compared to the money and position.

A true brahmin is suppose to follow his path.

All the best

 

[nachi naga]

According to an interpretor, the six duties assigned to Brahmins as per Tholkappiam are as follows:

Brahmins are suppose to recite Vedhas.

Brahmins are suppose to teach Vedhas

Brahmins are suppose to Perform Yagnas for Lokakshema

Brahmins are suppose to help others perform Yagnas

Brahmins are suppose to donate others.

Brahmins can accept donations from others.

If the above are followed, then he is considered as a brahmin.

Just about 160 years back `Thiagayya' lived in this world with `Unchavarthi' offerings and refused money or position of the then King. He even composed a song `Nidhi Saala Sugama'. He preferred the lotus feet of Lord Rama as compared to the money and position.

A true brahmin is suppose to follow his path.

All the best

rvr

afaik tholkapiam is tamizh noole.which language did vedas originally was written,was it tamizh or sanmskritham?

all this brahmins of today if they do,thats we all become 'bondy' and 'aandi pandarams' in life.

brahman gnyanam udayavan brahmin.to get this gnyanam,they prefered by birth theory.in some place they prefered way of ritualistic life,as brahmin.

both are correct.both are brahmins.as long as they preach and teach brahman gnyanam.

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Rvr Said:-

Brahmins are suppose to recite Vedhas.

Brahmins are suppose to teach Vedhas

Brahmins are suppose to Perform Yagnas for Lokakshema

Brahmins are suppose to help others perform Yagnas

Brahmins are suppose to donate others.

Brahmins can accept donations from others.

If the above are followed, then he is considered as a brahmin.

Words of wisdom indeed. The one who acquires knowledge and keep others educated by sharing the knowledge is essential for a smart socity. What is a yajna? Does it have to be a fire pit for making the 'offerings' in the fire? I don't think so. A scientist who is bent upon finding a cure for an epidemic; a sociologist striving to bring a postive changes to the community...I hope you get the drift; they are all yajnas. The one takes part in such a yajna forsaking [ersonal benefits is working for the 'lokatchemam' indeed. When one decides whatever he/she earns do not belong to them, helping others will be easy. In 2006 I had a heart attack, which I did not know about. (May be I was drunk). In early 2007 a doctor in the OZ found that out by measuring the triponin level in my blood... I decided from that time I am living on borrowed time. I am enjoying life as much as possible...helping others gives me the greatest of satisfaction.

If anyone can live like Sri.RVR said; even as I interpreted, I will be happy respect that person as the top human being.

Cheers!

 

[happyhindu]

If anyone can live like Sri.RVR said; even as I interpreted, I will be happy respect that person as the top human being.

Raghy, am sorry to hear abt the heart attack. Please take good care of yourself and you certianly will live life to the fullest for decades to come.

And yes, there are people who do live like that till date. Not as you interpret, but literally as Shri RVR ji mentions. No matter in what dire straits they are, they do not abandon the brahmopadesam they received for the kali called money. But you will not find them on this forum.

In the name of development and helping the poor, i suppose they too will be tempted out of the lives they life today, to become engineers, doctors, accountants, CAs, and bureucrats....One can only hope they are funded sufficiently well enuf to continue living life as they do now. But who knows what the future holds...only time can tell...

 

[happyhindu]

Tholkappiyam is suppose to be a work of 8th Century BC. The following stanza talks about Brahmins.

அறுவகைப்பட்ட பார்பன பக்கமும்
ஐவகை மரபின் அரசர் பக்கமும்
இருமூன்று மரபின் ஏனோர் பக்கமும்

It talks about Brahmins, Kshatrias and other two varnas.

The meaning for the word Paarpanar is explained as follows

paarpanar - seer (one who can foretell things, philosopher)

andhaNar, vEdhiyar, paarppanar, battar and BrahmaNar

Hence classification of different communities within the Tamil tribe was very much there almost 3000 years back.

Since Brahmins were looked upon as intellectuals & philosophers by the Kshatria Kings, they were treated at a different level.

We as a community has to keep the respect by following the principles of Brahminism. If we give up the principles of Brahminism, then we should not expect the same respect from other communities.

Today Brahmins are mad after money and hence losing the respect from other communities. Brahmins should not go after money and should try to live happily with what they have.

All the best

Of the Vedhiyar, Anthanar, Battar, Paarpanar and Piramanar, i suppose only the piraminar refer to the brahmin.

The vedhiyar wud be a person well versed in the vedas, like a brahmachari buy not yet a self-realised brahmin. The parpanar is i think, an astrologer / astronomer.

There is an other angle to the andhanar mentioned here. Myth goes that the 100 sons of Vishwamitra became the Andh (tribe) or Andhras (in prakrit) or Andhanar (as they are supposedly known in tamil) - this is an other angle yet to be explored with not much info at present. There still lives an Andh tribe in present-day Andhra-Maharashtra region.

I was reading the book 'Caste system in India: myth and reality' by Sangeetha Rao, which mentions that the Satakaranis were brahmins and the Andhrabhrityas (andhra servants) or generally known as Andhras, were shudras. The writer quoted old telugu writers to mention that historically there were no kshatriyas in the telugu land. Its quite an interesting scenario.

Regards.

 

[RVR]

Raghy, am sorry to hear abt the heart attack. Please take good care of yourself and you certianly will live life to the fullest for decades to come.

And yes, there are people who do live like that till date. Not as you interpret, but literally as Shri RVR ji mentions. No matter in what dire straits they are, they do not abandon the brahmopadesam they received for the kali called money. But you will not find them on this forum.

In the name of development and helping the poor, i suppose they too will be tempted out of the lives they life today, to become engineers, doctors, accountants, CAs, and bureucrats....One can only hope they are funded sufficiently well enuf to continue living life as they do now. But who knows what the future holds...only time can tell...

There are lot of service minded people in all professions belonging to all castes.

A senior Advocate normally charges Rs.50,000 plus expenses for appearing for a case in the Hindu High court. But there are eminent senior advocates who don't charge more than Rs.10,000 for such a case.

Two years back I underwent `hernia' surgery at Sundaram Medical Foundation, Chennai. My total cost was less than Rs.20,000. It is an excellent hospital promoted by TVS group having state of art facilities. Normally it would have cost almost double the amount elsewhere in an inferior hospital at Chennai.

There are lot of Auditors doing free service for charitable Trusts even today.

I wish all the Brahmins irrespective of their profession they practice, follow the above principles and do service to the community at large. Money should not be their motive and if possible they should do certain percentage of their service totally free for poor and downtrodden members of all communities.

I am again invoking the song of Thiagayya, `Nidhi Saala Sugama'


All the best

 

[happyhindu]

There are lot of service minded people in all professions belonging to all castes.

A senior Advocate normally charges Rs.50,000 plus expenses for appearing for a case in the Hindu High court. But there are eminent senior advocates who don't charge more than Rs.10,000 for such a case.

Two years back I underwent `hernia' surgery at Sundaram Medical Foundation, Chennai. My total cost was less than Rs.20,000. It is an excellent hospital promoted by TVS group having state of art facilities. Normally it would have cost almost double the amount elsewhere in an inferior hospital at Chennai.

There are lot of Auditors doing free service for charitable Trusts even today.

I wish all the Brahmins irrespective of their profession they practice, follow the above principles and do service to the community at large. Money should not be their motive and if possible they should do certain percentage of their service totally free for poor and downtrodden members of all communities.

I am again invoking the song of Thiagayya, `Nidhi Saala Sugama'


All the best

yes i hear abt sundaram foundation often. its a wonderful hospital and i know a lady who is a regular patient tehre.

with due respects to what you mention which i do agree with, i somehow imagine a scenario, abt 100 years later, where all of them who received brahmopadesam abandon it and profess secular profession, and continue to bring troubles upon themsleves by blowing the superiority trumpet.....and only politicians, seperatists, extremists, missinaries, etc will benefit in the end...

will continue later. need 2 go.

regards

 

[nachi naga]

when we don't now how to handle present,i am chuckling when people assume events in future.inter-caste marriage will eventually evolve with present education system,imho.

 

[RVR]

Ms.Happy Hindu,

My comments are in blue.

Of the Vedhiyar, Anthanar, Battar, Paarpanar and Piramanar, i suppose only the piraminar refer to the brahmin.

The vedhiyar wud be a person well versed in the vedas, like a brahmachari buy not yet a self-realised brahmin. The parpanar is i think, an astrologer / astronomer.

The term Vedhiyar may refer to those who have mastered Vedhaas. In Sekkizhar's Thiruthondar Puranam - Manu Needhi Cholan episode, the term Vedhiyar is used for performing வேள்வி - Yagnas.

In the Devaram -Thiruthondathogai, Lord Thiagaraja (Siva) helps Sundaramoorthi Nayanar with the first sentance `தில்லை வாழ் அந்தணர்தம் அடியார்க்கும் அடியேன்'. Dikshidars in Chidambaram are suppose to know only Lord Nataraja and they will not even cross the borders of Chidambaram. They are termed as Andhanar.

The term `Paarpanar' appears in Tholkappiam and it is interpreted as being refered to Brahmins.

The word Brahmanar doesn't appear in the ancient Tamil literature.

There is an other angle to the andhanar mentioned here. Myth goes that the 100 sons of Vishwamitra became the Andh (tribe) or Andhras (in prakrit) or Andhanar (as they are supposedly known in tamil) - this is an other angle yet to be explored with not much info at present. There still lives an Andh tribe in present-day Andhra-Maharashtra region.

Vishwamitra and other Rishis are mentioned only in sanskrit literature and are not mentioned in Tamil Literature, may be except Kamba Ramayanam. Again Kambaramayam doesn't belong to Sangam period and is suppose to be composed in 12th century AD

ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramavataram

There are lot of brahmins among Azhwars and Nayanmars (7th to 9th Centure AD) and they have contributed to Tamil Literature.

I was reading the book 'Caste system in India: myth and reality' by Sangeetha Rao, which mentions that the Satakaranis were brahmins and the Andhrabhrityas (andhra servants) or generally known as Andhras, were shudras. The writer quoted old telugu writers to mention that historically there were no kshatriyas in the telugu land. Its quite an interesting scenario.

Brahmin community speaking other languages were there but I am confining my discussions only to Tamil brahmins.

Regards.

All the best

 

[RVR]

yes i hear abt sundaram foundation often. its a wonderful hospital and i know a lady who is a regular patient tehre.

with due respects to what you mention which i do agree with, i somehow imagine a scenario, abt 100 years later, where all of them who received brahmopadesam abandon it and profess secular profession, and continue to bring troubles upon themsleves by blowing the superiority trumpet.....and only politicians, seperatists, extremists, missinaries, etc will benefit in the end...

will continue later. need 2 go.

regards

One thing which most of the other communities fail to understand is `brahmins are most flexible and are capable of adjusting themselves to any situation whatsoever'

Personally I was brought up in a pure `agraharam' environment in my younger days and I am very much adjusted with all other communities in my apartment.

My elder son is in Saudi Arabia, a fanatic muslim country. But he tells me that there are lot of brahmins in that country and they practice all the rituals with ease.

There may be more intercaste marriages in future but I don't think it will wipe out brahmin community as a whole. There are 5.6 crore brahmins in India speaking different languages and they may mingle more within themselves in the future. I feel that brahmins constitute almost 1% of the total global population and it is very significant to be wiped out in the future also.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?234783

I wish all Hindus, particularly the so called upper castes in India, do more social work in the future helping poor and downtrodden members of the Hindu community which will effectively arrest the activities of the missionaries. Equality among communities will emerge once economic prosperity is achieved.

Personally I am associated with the Aims for Seva movement which is working only in rural areas in school education, medical facilities and vocational training.

AIM for Seva

We have plans to start atleast 100 schools in remote villages in the next five years. We are already giving a tough time for missioneries in areas where we are present. Our school and hospital in a tsunami affected and fishermen inhibited area is already forcing a missionary school to close down.

Vidyanidhi Trust

We are going to continue our work in remote rural areas. I wish other Hindu outfits also do the same thing so that missionaries are controlled in their activities. We are not converting anybody to Hinduism but our activities are preventing missionaries in their hidden agenda.

All the best

 

[Nara]

Dear RVR sir, I respect you a lot and what I am about to write is not against you. So, I request you to not take it personally. My comments are directed at the Brahmin caste. My intent is not to put them down, but only to urge some serious introspection.

One thing which most of the other communities fail to understand is `brahmins are most flexible and are capable of adjusting themselves to any situation whatsoever'

Oh, they do understand, and this is probably the primary reason for the wide spread anti-brahmin feelings.

On the one hand Brahmins claim such things as Brahmins are suppose to recite Vedas, teach Vedas, perform Yagnas for Lokakshema and help others, donate to others, and accept donations from others. In other words, live a simple life and work for the welfare of the entire community.

Many also claim a Brahmin is not by birth, but by character only. Satyakama spoke the truth even though it was ugly, and therefore he must be Brahmin, Gauthama is said to have concluded. Yudishtra says to Yaksha who is a Brahmin is decided based on conduct.

In short, Brahmnins are the very embodiment of everything good and holy.

All this is only theory, that too constantly evolving theory as convenience necessitates. In practice, "brahmins are most flexible and are capable of adjusting themselves to any situation whatsoever" and ditch everything that is supposed to define a Brahmin. They will travel to any land, live among beef eating mlechchas, and in the name of fitting-in they may themselves eat beef and have a nice time with the bottle. All this is fine, except they also think they belong to this Brahmin "community", go about with a chip on their shoulders, are angry with the reservation system because Brahmins are not given subsidized education, are proud that a Brahmin won the world chess championship. There is term for this and it is hypocrisy, and oh, the other "communities" are quite aware of this.

This is why there is a clear divide between B and NB. Brahmins need to think for a moment, how come this division is not between Upper Caste and Backward Caste, say UC and BC. The division is B and NB. Don't blame the British and the Muslims for this, pleaze.

I have nothing against TBs adapting and being successful, more power to them. Wherever they go, whatever they eat and drink, whoever they associate with, as long as they make an honest living and are compassionate to fellow human beings, I am fully with them. What I can't simply accept is the hypocrisy of doing all this and still feel they belong to this great, wholesome, pure, simple, holy Brahmin "community".

Cheers!

 

[RVR]

Prof Nara Sir,

Brahmins should develop charitable mind set which is most important in the future. If they are selfish, other communities will not leave them in peace. On the contrary if the present day brahmins make a simple living and noble thinking, they will be respected by one and all.

In my own native village, personally I am facing lot of pulls and pressures from all sides. Brahmins have almost left the village for good but when we are reentering with charitable mindset, the goodwill which we are able to see is tremendous. On the one side, some of our own community members doesn't want to dilute too much. On the other side, the caste Hindus doesn't like us involving daliths in the activities. But some of us have decided to carry entire village irrespective of resistance from some sections. I am sure we will overcome the resistances and would like to see the entire village prospers.

When we were holding land and other properties, there was general suspicion in the minds of other communities. Now all of them know that we don't have any hidden agenda and whatever we are doing is just because of our affinity to our native village. So the erstwhile brahmin biters are forced to keep quite. Majority of the people are innocent and moderate. We want to ensure that our good work help such innocent and moderate people to come up in life.

If we succeed, it will help our community in the future also.

All the best

 

[Nara]

.... Majority of the people are innocent and moderate.

Yes, I fully agree with this observation. A poor Brahmin who lives a simple life is still respected in the villages. It is the hypocrisy inherent in Brahmin exclusiveness that people dislike.

Cheers!

 

[happyhindu]

The term Vedhiyar may refer to those who have mastered Vedhaas. In Sekkizhar's Thiruthondar Puranam - Manu Needhi Cholan episode, the term Vedhiyar is used for performing வேள்வி - Yagnas.

In the Devaram -Thiruthondathogai, Lord Thiagaraja (Siva) helps Sundaramoorthi Nayanar with the first sentance `தில்லை வாழ் அந்தணர்தம் அடியார்க்கும் அடியேன்'. Dikshidars in Chidambaram are suppose to know only Lord Nataraja and they will not even cross the borders of Chidambaram. They are termed as Andhanar.

The term `Paarpanar' appears in Tholkappiam and it is interpreted as being refered to Brahmins.

The word Brahmanar doesn't appear in the ancient Tamil literature.

Thankyou for this post. Does not Piraminar mean Brahmanar in Tamil? I mean, the word Brahmanar does not have to appear as such in Tamil literature.

Vishwamitra and other Rishis are mentioned only in sanskrit literature and are not mentioned in Tamil Literature, may be except Kamba Ramayanam. Again Kambaramayam doesn't belong to Sangam period and is suppose to be composed in 12th century AD

ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramavataram

There are lot of brahmins among Azhwars and Nayanmars (7th to 9th Centure AD) and they have contributed to Tamil Literature.

Brahmin community speaking other languages were there but I am confining my discussions only to Tamil brahmins.

I shd have been clearer. We are obviously talking abt times when tamil and other dravidian languages were not as distinct as they are now...so whatever am speaking abt the current telugu land is what in a way applies to the current tamil land too...it is 'folk memory' sorta thing that the vadamas were originally from the current telugu regions...

Yes, I fully agree with this observation. A poor Brahmin who lives a simple life is still respected in the villages. It is the hypocrisy inherent in Brahmin exclusiveness that people dislike.

Cheers!

i suppose in the end all that will remain is clash of egos....no one gets to see a traditional brahmin putting on his ego on display...its the others who tend to be the root cause (not all, only the outliers like the abnormals)....today, the dalits want religious equality exactly bcoz of such ppl i suppose...wonder where will it all lead to...only god knows...

 

[RVR]

Ms Happy Hindu,

My comments are in Italics and lighter blue

Thankyou for this post. Does not Piraminar mean Brahmanar in Tamil? I mean, the word Brahmanar does not have to appear as such in Tamil literature.



The word Brahmanar or Piramanar doesn't appear in the ancient Tamil Literature.

I shd have been clearer. We are obviously talking abt times when tamil and other dravidian languages were not as distinct as they are now...so whatever am speaking abt the current telugu land is what in a way applies to the current tamil land too...it is 'folk memory' sorta thing that the vadamas were originally from the current telugu regions...

Only the present Kerala was part of the ancient Tamil Land known as Chera Naadu. Thiruvanjikulam Sivan temple near Kodungallur Kerala was sung by Sundaramurthi Nayanar. There are about thirteen Vaishnava Divya desams in Malai Naadu (Present Kerala). Except Tirupathi/Thirumalai, there are no Vaishnava Divya desam in the present Andhra Pradesh. But `Vada Vengadam' was considered as border of Tamil Land. So Andhra was never part of Tamil Land.

Smartha Brahmins who came from or stayed north of Cauvery Bank were considered as `Vadamas'. Those who stayed in mid land were considered as `Madyamas' which is now termed as `Vadhyamas'. Eight thousand families who migrated to further south to the present Pudukottai/Ramnad districts were termed as `Ashta Sahasram'. Those who performed yagnas at river beds were considered as `Brahacharnam'. It is pure geographical split among smarthas and all of them follow Advaitha Philosophy of Aadhi Sankara. Even today they are followers of either Kanchi or Sringeri mutt. Mostly people of Tirunelveli/Trivandrum belt follow Sringeri and rest follow Kanchi. Even such differences have come down drastically now and people visit both Kanchi and Sringeri without any discrimination.
rc
There is no proof that Vadamas migrated from present Andhra. On the contrary, some of my friends (Telugu speaking brahmins) of Godavari belt are visiting Kanchi mutt regularly.


i suppose in the end all that will remain is clash of egos....no one gets to see a traditional brahmin putting on his ego on display...its the others who tend to be the root cause (not all, only the outliers like the abnormals)....today, the dalits want religious equality exactly bcoz of such ppl i suppose...wonder where will it all lead to...only god knows...

Basic requirement of daliths is education and dignity. Once they get education, they start getting dignity. People in general have last priority for religion. Even in the western world, the churches have lost their hold over the followers. I am sure India will also see the same thing in the future.

If people feel indiscriminated, they can always follow the example of Sri Narayana Guru

Narayana Guru - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Brahmins cannot control majority people of other communities by practicing discrimination. The other way is very much possible since brahmins are just 3% of the total population in Tamilnadu.

All the best

 

[nachi naga]

There is only one religion, the religion of Love;
There is only one language, the language of the Heart;
There is only one caste, the caste of Humanity;
There is only one law, the law of Karma;
There is only one God, He is Omnipresent.------------>Bhagavan.

 

[AnanthaNarayanan]

sarvajith v 51 ji
very good chart. more relavant in these times. having lot of intercaste marriages happening.
it is better to have a check of blood group rather than gothrams. hopefully all separate gothrams comes inline with one separate genetics form.