intercaste marriages

[vasumathi]

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It is disheartening to note that many bramin girls marry outside the caste and even outside the religion. If the trend continues , there will not be any brahmin community after 25 years. What is to be done to arrest the trend is a big question mark.

 

[renuka]

When there is intercaste marriage within the Hindu community there is not just loss of 1 caste but there is fusion of 2 caste..So in that way we can say there is caste dilution for both parties .

I can savely say that its just lifestyle changes that takes place.Its loss of lifestyle practise and not loss of caste here.

The best solution is for the Hindu community as a whole to embrace a similar lifestyle per Vedic dictates as a True Practitioner of Sanathana Dharma so there is no loss of any identity here.

Actually lost of a particular caste or race is not becos of intercaste marriage but rather abandoning their own lifestyle just to be "Cool" or "In".

How many people actually life up to the dictates of their Janma Varna?

Its a worrysome trend these days for people especially the so called educated Hindus who tend to view even God according to their whims and fancies just to be considered a "Thinking" Hindu.

An educated person who has 100% faith in God might be considered ignorant or not intelligent by the so called new elite.

The most common word used these days is Agnostic but its these same guys who will be doing every ritual under the sun for personal gain but try to play around with words to be viewed as a "thinking" individual.

So we need to question ourselves..what is really meant by losing identity?

Is it just losing type of food, type of language or type of rituals etc..?

Most Hindus these days have lost their identity,most of us know nuts about what we do..seen so many priest who have no idea whats the meaning of the mantras they recite and even though i know Bhakthi overrides everything there is still no excuse for a priest not to know what he is doing.cos thats his Kartavyam!

A priest has the duty to lead the masses per dharma just imagine a doctor has no idea whats the meaning of the text he/she reads and just rattles it out without knowing what he/she is doing? what happens? patient dies isnt it.

So there is "death" to the society when we no nothing about what we do.

When we do other jobs..paper qualification and undestanding is so important but why people dont view their job as religous leaders seriously?

Reason must be becos common folk will not know the meaning of any recital so it goes unnoticed..

So it a wake up call to the whole Hindu community not just any 1 caste..If anyone who doesnt want to lose him or herself..1st be a Human,then be Sanathana Dharmist and you can never lose yourself or identity.

If a community is just a conglomerate of food,clothings and rituals then they have lost themselves long back.
Being genetically present is just a roll call..
Being present with Buddhi and Viveka is what being Present is all about.

 

[tks]

Unless one understands and practices what it means to be a Brahmin there are really no issues and hence no solutions. When a child goes outside the customs taught at home it often means life of contradictions at home or it might mean lack of genuine connection with the child etc. The identities of new group of Indian children are confused to say the least - They born with Bollywood movies and low class mega-serials which set their value system, government corruption as an accepted way of life, and confused parents who provide contradictory messages. To make the matters worst there are confused teachings by self procaliming Gurus who have not earned the 'Adhikara' to teach end up preaching that blind Bhakti to a Puranic story is everything and that there are many paths to lead life etc. Such a society hence cannot achieve stability. The intercaste and inter-religious marriages are but a symptom of larger problems that plague our Hindu society.

 

[renuka]

So the best solution is question ourselves 1st.

As I said focus on Santhana Dharma and nothing can go wrong.
Anyone can be of any caste..as long he/she knows what Sanathana Dharma is all about they can never lose themselves.

When a salt crystals goes to sea he only joins his origin.He doesnt lose his identity.

Same here..we should instill Dharma in our children from young..dont blame serials or movies, all of us watch them..its has no 100% influence on our mind..Its the upbringing that counts.

Dont majority of parents these days fail to instill human values in their kids?
Cos most of us dont have it ourselves, as you said parents try to provide contradictory messages but how many parents themselves are a good example?
See true nature of a person is not merely outward words and appearance it blooms from within.
When most parents these days view everyone else as their enemy and wish only the best for their family..how do u expect the kids to grow into fine citizens of their community..(note..i have used the word..community cos most of us these days only think of ourselves)
Each one kid is taught how to compete in a selfish manner and some might think if we dont be selfish we lose out in the world today.

Thats how society starts to decay when human values are gone..having Human Values gives rise to Budhhi and Viveka..its grows in the fertile ground of compassion.

Most of people these days only think of their benefit?
How many think of others?

So it all begins at home.
The worrysome trend is among Hindus only cos the tribe of the so called Elite Thinking Agnostic types are on the rise and you will never see this trend among practitioners of other Faiths..

Thats the reason why Hindus succumb easily to conversion and lose their identity.We are just not strong enough like how we should be. In other words All Cock but No Substance..

 

[subbudu1]

When there is intercaste marriage within the Hindu community there is not just loss of 1 caste but there is fusion of 2 caste..So in that way we can say there is caste dilution for both parties .

I can savely say that its just lifestyle changes that takes place.Its loss of lifestyle practise and not loss of caste here.

The best solution is for the Hindu community as a whole to embrace a similar lifestyle per Vedic dictates as a True Practitioner of Sanathana Dharma so there is no loss of any identity here.

Actually lost of a particular caste or race is not becos of intercaste marriage but rather abandoning their own lifestyle just to be "Cool" or "In".

How many people actually life up to the dictates of their Janma Varna?

Its a worrysome trend these days for people especially the so called educated Hindus who tend to view even God according to their whims and fancies just to be considered a "Thinking" Hindu.

An educated person who has 100% faith in God might be considered ignorant or not intelligent by the so called new elite.

The most common word used these days is Agnostic but its these same guys who will be doing every ritual under the sun for personal gain but try to play around with words to be viewed as a "thinking" individual.

So we need to question ourselves..what is really meant by losing identity?

Is it just losing type of food, type of language or type of rituals etc..?

Most Hindus these days have lost their identity,most of us know nuts about what we do..seen so many priest who have no idea whats the meaning of the mantras they recite and even though i know Bhakthi overrides everything there is still no excuse for a priest not to know what he is doing.cos thats his Kartavyam!

A priest has the duty to lead the masses per dharma just imagine a doctor has no idea whats the meaning of the text he/she reads and just rattles it out without knowing what he/she is doing? what happens? patient dies isnt it.

So there is "death" to the society when we no nothing about what we do.

When we do other jobs..paper qualification and undestanding is so important but why people dont view their job as religous leaders seriously?

Reason must be becos common folk will not know the meaning of any recital so it goes unnoticed..

So it a wake up call to the whole Hindu community not just any 1 caste..If anyone who doesnt want to lose him or herself..1st be a Human,then be Sanathana Dharmist and you can never lose yourself or identity.

If a community is just a conglomerate of food,clothings and rituals then they have lost themselves long back.
Being genetically present is just a roll call..
Being present with Buddhi and Viveka is what being Present is all about.

Nice post Madam, let us not worry about being a sanathana dharmist. Everybody has their opinions- there is no one dharma. Let us be a Human and let us live together with our differences . Let us tolerate differences .Let us tolerate all type of people.

 

[renuka]

Nice post Madam, let us not worry about being a sanathana dharmist. Everybody has their opinions- there is no one dharma. Let us be a Human and let us live together with our differences . Let us tolerate differences .Let us tolerate all type of people.

Dear Subs,

Sanathana Dharma is universal dear...Not only for us Hindus..thats the solution to all our differences..Thanks for response..liked your post.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

It is disheartening to note that many bramin girls marry outside the caste and even outside the religion. If the trend continues , there will not be any brahmin community after 25 years. What is to be done to arrest the trend is a big question mark.

Not only Brahmin Girls but also Brahmin Boys are getting married outside the caste and religion. This is happening not only among Brahmins but also all other castes and religions as well. Inter caste marriages are not welcomed by any of the castes in India.

This change has nothing to do with the upbringing of the children. The parents should not blame themselves for this. Of course it is common for parents to claim credit for the success of the children and also whatever happens in their lives. Once you start taking credit for their success you start blaming yourselves for their failures.

Both these attitudes are wrong.

It has been clearly proved by many studies that the environment/upbringing does not decide the behavior of a person. It is one of the many factors. That is all.

So accept the changes and learn to live with it.

The Brahmin community is not facing a threat becuse of this. The community will continue to exist despite the doomsday predictions of some people.

 

[Raghy]

It is disheartening to note that many bramin girls marry outside the caste and even outside the religion. If the trend continues , there will not be any brahmin community after 25 years. What is to be done to arrest the trend is a big question mark.

Sowbagyavathy Vasumathi,

Greetings. Personally, I don't feel disheartened to see intercaste/inter religious marriages. When I see a boy/girl has to 'convert' to a different religion for the sake of marrying 'the true love', I feel for their stupidity. If his/her lover can't accept them as they are, how can that be a strong bond?

Brahmin community will be there, albiet with a lot of changes. Already it has changed so much, it is so different to the one seen 50 years back.... changes are inevitable; I think, I don't think it will vanish in a hurry.

Cheers!

 

[subbudu1]

Unless one understands and practices what it means to be a Brahmin there are really no issues and hence no solutions. When a child goes outside the customs taught at home it often means life of contradictions at home or it might mean lack of genuine connection with the child etc. The identities of new group of Indian children are confused to say the least - They born with Bollywood movies and low class mega-serials which set their value system, government corruption as an accepted way of life, and confused parents who provide contradictory messages. To make the matters worst there are confused teachings by self procaliming Gurus who have not earned the 'Adhikara' to teach end up preaching that blind Bhakti to a Puranic story is everything and that there are many paths to lead life etc. Such a society hence cannot achieve stability. The intercaste and inter-religious marriages are but a symptom of larger problems that plague our Hindu society.

I have a question, if your child marries a non brahmin who is a top class human being, vegetarian etc,religious also. Will you call that a problem? I know brahmins who are wicked. There are brahmins who want to follow lifestyle of bollywood serials.

I also know a non brahmin personally, who has good parentage. His ancestors have built temples for thousands of years. He comes from nattukottai chettiars. His parents were meat eaters. This man does not eat that also.This man wakes up in the morning at 4 takes bath . He wears madi clothes. This man also recites shlokas including vishnu sahasranamam. He also recites rudram with devotion. If your daughter marries such a man is it downfall?

inter-caste and inter-religious marriage are not always problem.

I know a muslim girl married a marwadi 20 years back. This lady is smarter than husband and adopted boy's culture. It may be bad for the lady not for the boy. It varies.

Our Rukmini Devi had inter religious marriage. She did more for bharatanatyam than pure madisar mamis.

 

[sangom]

Its a worrysome trend these days for people especially the so called educated Hindus who tend to view even God according to their whims and fancies just to be considered a "Thinking" Hindu.

An educated person who has 100% faith in God might be considered ignorant or not intelligent by the so called new elite.

The most common word used these days is Agnostic but its these same guys who will be doing every ritual under the sun for personal gain but try to play around with words to be viewed as a "thinking" individual.

Smt. Renuka,

If the word highlighted by me above, was intended for me (because I have said I am an agnostic more than once in this forum) you could have been direct. Anyway, I would like to clarify that as an agnostic I do not perform any sort of religious work - except what I write about religion here - in my day-to-day life. As a 70+ person with a number of health problems (I do not go to hospital because they have become commercial, and so depend on only a doctor and his medicines) I know I do not have many more years to go. Still, may I say I do not find the need for prayer or any such thing because for me what god is and how He (It) functions is not known to man so far. Religion is man's own created myth.

You need not necessarily believe me and are free to continue to think that I am a guy "who will be doing every ritual under the sun for personal gain but try to play around with words to be viewed as a "thinking" individual". But I have nothing more to seek for in life - not even the label of "thinking" individual; if I am considered as just another individual, it is more than sufficient. What I write about religion is probably because I have "thought" on and about religion which, perhaps, I should not have done; instead I should have blindly followed.

 

[sangom]

Not only Brahmin Girls but also Brahmin Boys are getting married outside the caste and religion. This is happening not only among Brahmins but also all other castes and religions as well. Inter caste marriages are not welcomed by any of the castes in India.

This change has nothing to do with the upbringing of the children. The parents should not blame themselves for this. Of course it is common for parents to claim credit for the success of the children and also whatever happens in their lives. Once you start taking credit for their success you start blaming yourselves for their failures.

Both these attitudes are wrong.

It has been clearly proved by many studies that the environment/upbringing does not decide the behavior of a person. It is one of the many factors. That is all.

So accept the changes and learn to live with it.

The Brahmin community is not facing a threat becuse of this. The community will continue to exist despite the doomsday predictions of some people.

Shri Iniyan,

I like your post, but I think the caste-tag will whither away, however slow it may be. And since brahmans themselves are divided into ever so many sub-classifications (like all other castes in India) the sub-caste tag is now practically not operating - at least overtly - except in a small percentage of cases; in a similar way the distinction based on vaishnava, madhva, tulu, kannada, etc., has also started getting eroded though just at the outermost fringes. I therefore visualize the brahman caste to be a small nucleus of all denominations combined together, following some sort of HCF of the various beliefs, customs, rituals, festivals, etc. by the end of this century.

ICMs happen because the younger generation does not seem to be able to play the hypocrite just as the older generation were efficiently doing. All the media inputs do play a certain role in shaping this attitude. Probably we have more Naciketases being born now!

 

[vasumathi]

You have voiced the feelings of the younger generation who is drifting without any guidance and hold on life. Every caste has its own character and professional ethics. The genes have much in deciding the nature and character of the people . if the caste identity is gone , there will be no goals and achievments of any sort. it means erosion of values and talents and society will suffer in the long run. Brahmins known for their sense of committment and devotion to servicewere eliminated from the education, police and administarion deopartments after the independence and the consequences are , you see, very bad . Inefficiency, corruption and insincerity at all levels have affected the performance of all departments in the country. if the sect is destroyed in the coming years, the adminstration in the future will collapse. it is a fact , a bitter fact to digest.

 

[sravna]

Intercaste marriages per se need not be discouraged. The world is a lot different than what it was even 100 years back and the mindset of people is more or less homogeneous. So there are very few differences in the attitude of the people and the way they want to live. Personally I don't prefer this current state of affairs though we cannot wish away the reality. If at all possible a brahmin girl should marry a brahmin boy as I think certain uniqueness is preserved that way. The world needs diversity and heterogeneity, so marrying within a community should be encouraged. Just as brahmins have their uniqueness other communities too have their own. I am not against intercaste marriages if in fact the girl finds a more compatible match than a brahmin boy for her from another community.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

In the broader sense, marriage is becoming the most abused word. Indians think if you marry a westerner, you will become James Bond like. South Indian girls think if you marry a North Indian, you can always dance "Bhangda". And the N.Indians think if you marry a S.I. you automatically become "brainy". Everybody should remember GB Shaw's words to a beautiful lady who proposed to him. But time takes it toll.

 

[Raghy]

You have voiced the feelings of the younger generation who is drifting without any guidance and hold on life. Every caste has its own character and professional ethics. The genes have much in deciding the nature and character of the people . if the caste identity is gone , there will be no goals and achievments of any sort. it means erosion of values and talents and society will suffer in the long run. Brahmins known for their sense of committment and devotion to servicewere eliminated from the education, police and administarion deopartments after the independence and the consequences are , you see, very bad . Inefficiency, corruption and insincerity at all levels have affected the performance of all departments in the country. if the sect is destroyed in the coming years, the adminstration in the future will collapse. it is a fact , a bitter fact to digest.

Sowbagyavathy Vasumathi,

Greetings. caste is based just on birth, not on any profession; So, every caste may not have any 'professional ethics'. A person's caste can not be identified by that person's charecter alone.

If it comes to genes, all the human beings basically got the same genes; due to gene mutations we have different eye colour, skin colour, hair colour etc. There may be more to gene mutations. But, the basic genes are just the same.

Caste identity has nothing to do with goals and achievements. Most 2nd generation children born overseas to Indian parents may not have any caste identity at all. Examples can be seen from children from Fiji, South Africa, west Indies, Europe and most western countries and to certain extend in Singapore and Malaysia.

I don't want to be seen disagreeing with you 'word to word'; so, I stop here. You may get the drift.

There is much more in humanity than caste identity. It is typical only amoung Indians, mostly only in India. I think, caste division is an albatrose around Hindus neck.

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

.... The genes have much in deciding the nature and character of the people .

Madam, I am pretty sure there is no "brahmin gene". Children inherit the genes of their parents, but there is no single gene that produces Brahmin babies.

if the caste identity is gone , there will be no goals and achievments of any sort.

This is not clear, in most other places outside South Asia caste is an alien concept. Do you think they have "no goals and achievements of any sort"?

Thank you....

 

[kkumar29]

It is very interesting to read some of the posts. I don't know how many of the posters are in a marriage that has spouses from two different casts. I am one. I can definitely say that all the gloom and doom predicted here are baseless. As I have stated in another thread I am an Iyer by birth and am married to a Roman Catholic. I have been married for more than 30 years. Neither of us have lost our identity. We both maintain our culture. Respect each other's religion, culture and willingly participate in activities. We have taught our children to be good human beings, treat every other human being as equal. We have taught them to be open minded and they haven't done too badly. They know carnatic music, western music, understand the two philosophies and are the richer for it. They celebrate both religions.

In tamil there is a proverb "அருண்டவன் கண்ணுக்கு இருண்டதெல்லாம் பேய்"

All this hooplah about losing one's identity is all rubbish. I believe it comes out of fear of the unknown. If you have absolute belief in something, learning a new thing or getting exposed to a new thing is not going to weaken your position. If the fear is there then it means the foundation is very weak. I think people who fear intercaste marriages should do something about strengthening their foundation rather than fearing progress.

We should remember all human beings are the same. Religion/Caste etc are man made and humans can change this. If as one poster had predicted that all castes would vanish then it is a good thing. People would stop killing each other in the name of religion and start working towards the betterment of humanity.

I think everyone should follow the sayings "எம்மதமும் சம்மதமே", "யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளீர்"

My two cents worth

K. Kumar

 

[kunjuppu]

kumar,

a delight to read your post. made my day

i think most cases, we drive away our children. why should always have to be all or nothing.

where there is acceptance, i find that there is harmony and the kids grow up really healthy and broad minded. i have another friend who married an anglo indian. the daughter had bharata natya arangetram recently with the father doing nattuvangam.

i think it is upto us as to whether to manage or mismanage the situation.

 

[renuka]

Smt. Renuka,

If the word highlighted by me above, was intended for me (because I have said I am an agnostic more than once in this forum) you could have been direct. Anyway, I would like to clarify that as an agnostic I do not perform any sort of religious work - except what I write about religion here - in my day-to-day life. As a 70+ person with a number of health problems (I do not go to hospital because they have become commercial, and so depend on only a doctor and his medicines) I know I do not have many more years to go. Still, may I say I do not find the need for prayer or any such thing because for me what god is and how He (It) functions is not known to man so far. Religion is man's own created myth.

You need not necessarily believe me and are free to continue to think that I am a guy "who will be doing every ritual under the sun for personal gain but try to play around with words to be viewed as a "thinking" individual". But I have nothing more to seek for in life - not even the label of "thinking" individual; if I am considered as just another individual, it is more than sufficient. What I write about religion is probably because I have "thought" on and about religion which, perhaps, I should not have done; instead I should have blindly followed.

Dear Sangom,
I never meant you in specific.. I meant those who think like what i wrote..I am very point blank types who fears nothing.If wanted to point finger at you I would have typed your full name and real name if i knew it.
See there are many who think "Agnostic" not only in this forum but also around where I stay.

Many in this forum might feel the same as me but might not have the guts to write it cos they might think they are offending you out of respect for your age so all they do is click "like" when what i write makes sense.

If you feel you fell in that category i wrote about I cant help it cos may be you saw some similarity.I fear nothing.i dont mind even being banned if I seemed offensive but I dont fear writing the truth.

Ok today I am going to be very point blank here..all of you guys who claim to be Agnostic now were once upon a time some ritualistic individual whose life didnt really go the way they wanted it to be.
If things went the way you guys wanted it to be would you guys be typing what you are preaching now?
See as a individual we have a right to our own thoughts but there is some amount of social responsibilty to make sure the new generation is not poisoned.
Do you think you are doing society a favor?
Ask yourself? is this what you want to leave behind?
And i am always so amazed how people who have unproven theories are so cock sure of what they say?

So homework for today is ask yourself..If things in life have gone the way you wnated it would you be writing all these today?
I dont mind if i come across as rude today cos i feel we Hindus have spared the sword too long.
thats why other religions behave better than us..cos they wont have their heads if they misbehaved.

 

[suraju06]

It is very interesting to read some of the posts. I don't know how many of the posters are in a marriage that has spouses from two different casts. I am one. I can definitely say that all the gloom and doom predicted here are baseless. As I have stated in another thread I am an Iyer by birth and am married to a Roman Catholic. I have been married for more than 30 years. Neither of us have lost our identity. We both maintain our culture. Respect each other's religion, culture and willingly participate in activities. We have taught our children to be good human beings, treat every other human being as equal. We have taught them to be open minded and they haven't done too badly. They know carnatic music, western music, understand the two philosophies and are the richer for it. They celebrate both religions.

In tamil there is a proverb "அருண்டவன் கண்ணுக்கு இருண்டதெல்லாம் பேய்"

All this hooplah about losing one's identity is all rubbish. I believe it comes out of fear of the unknown. If you have absolute belief in something, learning a new thing or getting exposed to a new thing is not going to weaken your position. If the fear is there then it means the foundation is very weak. I think people who fear intercaste marriages should do something about strengthening their foundation rather than fearing progress.

We should remember all human beings are the same. Religion/Caste etc are man made and humans can change this. If as one poster had predicted that all castes would vanish then it is a good thing. People would stop killing each other in the name of religion and start working towards the betterment of humanity.

I think everyone should follow the sayings "எம்மதமும் சம்மதமே", "யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளீர்"

My two cents worth

K. Kumar

Dear Mr. Kumar,
The thread starter asked:
"It is disheartening to note that many bramin girls marry outside the caste and even outside the religion. If the trend continues , there will not be any brahmin community after 25 years. What is to be done to arrest the trend is a big question mark".

There are many replies. Some of them sagely,some of them demanding reform here and now, some neither here nor there and some even in despair. Yours is the only one which says you have the experience and so advises Vasumathi not to worry if her children too choose ICM.

I am a Brahmin(I am using the term here as it is commonly understood without going into sanathana dharma, chathur varnam mama srushtam etc.,). I have a daughter who goes to her work by driving a car. One day while returning from the work she thought she saw a kitten going under her car and heard a thud also. She stopped the car to see what happened. As it was dark she could not see any thing. She came home. That night and the next one the poor girl did not sleep.

I have a neighbour (NB) who relishes NV dishes. He has a son whose chore it is to kill the chicken brought alive from the shop and clean it every time they decide to have chicken for lunch. The boy plays with the chicken from the morning untill the appointed time. On his mother's instructions, he effortlessly and without any emotions, breaks the neck of the chicken, immerses it in cold water and then goes about cleaning it after removing the feathers to hand it over to her for cooking.

This is just one difference I have observed from a hundred other differences. Now, please tell me whether these basic values picked up as these children grow up will disappear just like that? Wont they raise their heads when under extreme stress, when our core values take over to find a way out for survival? I am interested in knowing your views.

Cheers.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Vasumathi,

This is what you asked:
"It is disheartening to note that many bramin girls marry outside the caste and even outside the religion. If the trend continues , there will not be any brahmin community after 25 years. What is to be done to arrest the trend is a big question mark".

I understand your anxiety. I would give a simple answer to your querry.

1. Do not bother too much about the horoscope matching.
2. Do not give too much importance to financial background of the family of the boy/girl. Ultimately all the riches/inheritances will melt away if your son/daughter does not manage his/her finances.
3. Keep engaging your children in conversation. Live as an example to them and teach them values.
4. Do not bother about sub-castes and denominations. If you get a brahmin boy/girl and other basic requirements are ok go ahead and celebrate the marriage.
5. Finally if your son/daughter loves a girl/boy from your community dont be very demanding. Just conduct the marriage.
6. Yes, I forgot this very important point. After the marriage at least for 2 years send them to live separately in a தனிக்குடித்தனம்.

Please be choosy about taking advice from (1) those who have not cared to teach values and culture and importance of the roots to their children (2) those who have already lost their children to an alien culture(3) Who have themselves gone astray and would like you to join them with your children in a spirit of யாம் பெற்ற "இன்பம்" பெறுக இவ்வையகம் .

Cheers

 

[tks]

So the best solution is question ourselves 1st.

As I said focus on Santhana Dharma and nothing can go wrong.
Anyone can be of any caste..as long he/she knows what Sanathana Dharma is all about they can never lose themselves.

When a salt crystals goes to sea he only joins his origin.He doesnt lose his identity.

Same here..we should instill Dharma in our children from young..dont blame serials or movies, all of us watch them..its has no 100% influence on our mind..Its the upbringing that counts.

Dont majority of parents these days fail to instill human values in their kids?
Cos most of us dont have it ourselves, as you said parents try to provide contradictory messages but how many parents themselves are a good example?
See true nature of a person is not merely outward words and appearance it blooms from within.
When most parents these days view everyone else as their enemy and wish only the best for their family..how do u expect the kids to grow into fine citizens of their community..(note..i have used the word..community cos most of us these days only think of ourselves)
Each one kid is taught how to compete in a selfish manner and some might think if we dont be selfish we lose out in the world today.

Thats how society starts to decay when human values are gone..having Human Values gives rise to Budhhi and Viveka..its grows in the fertile ground of compassion.

Most of people these days only think of their benefit?
How many think of others?

So it all begins at home.
The worrysome trend is among Hindus only cos the tribe of the so called Elite Thinking Agnostic types are on the rise and you will never see this trend among practitioners of other Faiths..

Thats the reason why Hindus succumb easily to conversion and lose their identity.We are just not strong enough like how we should be. In other words All Cock but No Substance..

I was able to resonate everything you have stated all the way until the very end where I thought I will offer some comments

Practitioners of other faith insist on 'preaching' and not 'teaching'. They tend to lead a life of contradictions which are built into the very theology that is preached. Many practitioners of various sects of even Hindu religions tend to approach their traditions in the same manner (including many with identities of Tambrahmins in my humble view)and they tend to forget the underpinning of the traditions which is based on teaching and not preaching.

It is harder to teach than preach in general. However if one does not learn properly the basis for many of the traditions it is easy to lose a sense of self identity and seek those faiths that offer simple 'solutions'.

Samanya Dharma which is known to everyone regardless of where they are born need no education. Unfortunately confused religious traditions preached in any faith - including those of Tambrahmin traditions practiced as blind faith - interferes with this 'built in intelligence' of everyone.

Santhana Dharma which is a more formal expression of this Samanya Dharma and applicable to all human beings if understood and practiced would cause less confusion of self identities for everyone.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Vasumathi,

This is what you asked:
"It is disheartening to note that many bramin girls marry outside the caste and even outside the religion. If the trend continues , there will not be any brahmin community after 25 years. What is to be done to arrest the trend is a big question mark".

I understand your anxiety. I would give a simple answer to your querry.

1. Do not bother too much about the horoscope matching.
2. Do not give too much importance to financial background of the family of the boy/girl. Ultimately all the riches/inheritances will melt away if your son/daughter does not manage his/her finances.
3. Keep engaging your children in conversation. Live as an example to them and teach them values.
4. Do not bother about sub-castes and denominations. If you get a brahmin boy/girl and other basic requirements are ok go ahead and celebrate the marriage.
5. Finally if your son/daughter loves a girl/boy from your community dont be very demanding. Just conduct the marriage.
6. Yes, I forgot this very important point. After the marriage at least for 2 years send them to live separately in a தனிக்குடித்தனம்.

Cheers

Sri Raju,

Dunno why the brahmin community is shedding tears on delusion of Brahmin cast/culture/tradition, due girls and guys going for inter cast marriages and never bother to consider the practical solutions as correctly listed by you? I don't think these points never occur to their brain. May be they don't want to be a fool to stick to the brahmin cast/culture/tradition just by way of compromises... It seem to be too hard to know what is must and whats not, that generally differs from people to people. Either they have to compromise with the cast identity or with the preferences related to their marriage. At the end of the day boys and girls are capable to take their own decisions according to their desires. This attitude of present days boys and girls is highly appreciably only if they never grumble for the mistakes they did (if any, they feel) and live happily, by making the best of everything that they have.

 

[kkumar29]

Dear Mr. Kumar,
The thread starter asked:
"It is disheartening to note that many bramin girls marry outside the caste and even outside the religion. If the trend continues , there will not be any brahmin community after 25 years. What is to be done to arrest the trend is a big question mark".

There are many replies. Some of them sagely,some of them demanding reform here and now, some neither here nor there and some even in despair. Yours is the only one which says you have the experience and so advises Vasumathi not to worry if her children too choose ICM.

I am a Brahmin(I am using the term here as it is commonly understood without going into sanathana dharma, chathur varnam mama srushtam etc.,). I have a daughter who goes to her work by driving a car. One day while returning from the work she thought she saw a kitten going under her car and heard a thud also. She stopped the car to see what happened. As it was dark she could not see any thing. She came home. That night and the next one the poor girl did not sleep.

I have a neighbour (NB) who relishes NV dishes. He has a son whose chore it is to kill the chicken brought alive from the shop and clean it every time they decide to have chicken for lunch. The boy plays with the chicken from the morning untill the appointed time. On his mother's instructions, he effortlessly and without any emotions, breaks the neck of the chicken, immerses it in cold water and then goes about cleaning it after removing the feathers to hand it over to her for cooking.

This is just one difference I have observed from a hundred other differences. Now, please tell me whether these basic values picked up as these children grow up will disappear just like that? Wont they raise their heads when under extreme stress, when our core values take over to find a way out for survival? I am interested in knowing your views.

Cheers.

Hi Suraju06,

I normally don't get into prolonged discussions to prove my point or disprove other's point. Every one forms their opinions based on their experiences and each one is valid. I respect these opinions.

To answer your question regarding differences, differences exist in all marriages. Marriage is the union of two individuals who come from different backgrounds (even if they belong to the same caste /religion/ region etc). There are bound to be differences in tastes, outlooks and approach. Over a period of time the couple learn each others likes/dislikes and make adjustments so they could lead a harmonious life, setting up a family and procreate and give each other companionship in their old age. As long as the two individuals respect each other and not get into the mode of proving that only my point is right, ironing out these differences are quite easy.

Now coming to the specific example you had given, if a brahmin marries that boy who kills the chicken for dinner, respects the boys behavior and accepts it and not pass any moral judgement displaying a holier than thou attitude there should be no problem in adjustment. In my own case, my wife is a non-vegetarian and I respect her right to eat Non Vegetarian. She respects my wish to be a vegetarian and neither of us pass any comments on the other's eating habits. We have not had any problems. I know some vegetarians have problems eating food with a non vegetarian. Then it is one of the adjustments they will have to make for the marriage to be successful. In my experience, as long as the two individuals share common moral values, things like religious rituals, community customs are trivial things. When I had to perform funeral rites for my parents, my wife was by my side wearing a madisar and holding the darbai in her hand touching my shoulder as any other brahmin women would do. In fact, my aunt who is 96 years old was so impressed that she told me that even brahmin girls now a days don't do things with the interest and care that my wife displayed. So they can be very easily achieved.

I am sure when people get married with a person from another caste, they do some introspection to see whether they are ready to face the challenges and are willing to make compromises. If they feel uncomfortable, then it is better they follow the well trodden path. I don't see any reason to fear the loss of identity because of these intercaste marriages if they are entered into with the right spirit and frame of mind.

Regards,
K. Kumar.

 

[tks]

I have a question, if your child marries a non brahmin who is a top class human being, vegetarian etc,religious also. Will you call that a problem? I know brahmins who are wicked. There are brahmins who want to follow lifestyle of bollywood serials.

I also know a non brahmin personally, who has good parentage. His ancestors have built temples for thousands of years. He comes from nattukottai chettiars. His parents were meat eaters. This man does not eat that also.This man wakes up in the morning at 4 takes bath . He wears madi clothes. This man also recites shlokas including vishnu sahasranamam. He also recites rudram with devotion. If your daughter marries such a man is it downfall?

inter-caste and inter-religious marriage are not always problem.

I know a muslim girl married a marwadi 20 years back. This lady is smarter than husband and adopted boy's culture. It may be bad for the lady not for the boy. It varies.

Our Rukmini Devi had inter religious marriage. She did more for bharatanatyam than pure madisar mamis.

I think the word Brahmin is used in my view in two contexts. One to refer to a person's identity however that is defined (caste, tradition, birth parents etc). The other meaning has to do with the qualities and character of a person. If good qualities are associated with the term Brahman it does not mean it is a denigration of other caste names used to primarily reference identity. The reason it is important to make this distinction is so that there are no confusion.

With this said, one could be a birth-Shudra but a Guna-Brahmin and one could be a Birth-Brahman but a Guna-Shudra. When our scriptures such as Gita refers to Brhamana it refers to Guna and not birth or tradition or type of work.

I would want Guna-Brahmna for my children. If they happen to be raised in a tradition similar to ours it is all the better since it could potentially promote more harmony.

If one marries outside Hindu religion to a highly 'orthodox practitioner' or into a family that practices Hindu traditions in a blind manner without understanding - they could potentially invite many more issues since many of the such traditions are built on blind, and self-contradictory belief systems. That would most likely (but not always) invite deep unresolvable issues over the years.