intercaste marriages

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

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I am surprised that even senior members like Nara and others do seem to feel that only Brahmins are opposed to inter-caste marriages.

Do they other communities welcome inter-caste marriages?

Definitely not. There is no community in India which either encourages or welcomes inter-caste marriages.

Every community is proud of its culture, its separate identity. They do not want their children to marry in another caste. Brahmins and some other castes may consider themselves higher castes. But a caste is not a class. Every one is happy when their children marries some one who is from a well off family. Financially/Educationally better off than themselves. But caste is not like that. No caste accepts the other castes as superior or better.

Since this is a Brahmin forum we hear about Brahmins complaining about inter-caste marriages. But my inter-action over the years with people from other castes like Saiva Vellla Pillais, Chettiars, Naidus, Gownders , Arundathiyar, Mukkulathor to name a few confirms this. I have been pointing out once too often in this forum that it is a folly to assume that the other castes welcome marriages with Brahmins. Girls or Boys. This is absolute fallacy.

I have friends in many communities. I have shared the anguish and concern of my friends from all communities whenever a boy/girl marries outside the community.

The reasons are not far to seek. The food habits, religious and other beliefs differ from community to community. When some one marries outside the community you are worried how the boy/girl will adapt to the food habits and other beliefs of the community.

The word for this is culture. Every community in India has a unique culture.

All the communities are worried about the changing pattern. Everyone is worried that their community is in danger because of inter-caste marriages.

This is a concern which is shared by all the communities in India not only Tamil Brahmins.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Vasumathi,

This is what you asked:
"It is disheartening to note that many bramin girls marry outside the caste and even outside the religion. If the trend continues , there will not be any brahmin community after 25 years. What is to be done to arrest the trend is a big question mark".

I understand your anxiety. I would give a simple answer to your querry. Cheers

Raju, not sure if these alone are the factors. There are probably many more, but these are good for starters.

1. Do not bother too much about the horoscope matching. Cheers

I agree. This appears to be tough to give up. I am yet to meet a parent seeking arranged marriage, willing to forego jadagam poruthal.

2. Do not give too much importance to financial background of the family of the boy/girl. Ultimately all the riches/inheritances will melt away if your son/daughter does not manage his/her finances. Cheers

I agree. But this seems to be a tough thing to give up.

3. Keep engaging your children in conversation. Live as an example to them and teach them values. Cheers

Correct 100%. It should be ‘live by the values that you wish to teach them’. again this does not necessarily translate into them following it. They can see through hypocracy. Or for other reasons, decide to eschew your values.

4. Do not bother about sub-castes and denominations. If you get a brahmin boy/girl and other basic requirements are ok go ahead and celebrate the marriage. Cheers

I agree. A brahmin is a brahmin is a brahmin, if that is what you want.

5. Finally if your son/daughter loves a girl/boy from your community dont be very demanding. Just conduct the marriage. Cheers

That is ok. I think the trouble comes if it is NOT from your community. We do not know how to ‘manage this situation’. It either us or them. not both.

6. Yes, I forgot this very important point. After the marriage at least for 2 years send them to live separately in a thanikudithanam Cheers

Why only two years? What is wrong if they want to live permanently separate? Why plonk on them unless they invite you. wholeheartedly, and not out of sense of duty. This type of thinking, I think, is yet another example of why our girls run away. They don’t want to be borne with the burden of caretakers of inlaws. They have their own parents to think of. I detect a male bias here.

Please be choosy about taking advice from (1) those who have not cared to teach values and culture and importance of the roots to their children (2) those who have already lost their children to an alien culture(3) Who have themselves gone astray and would like you to join them with your children in a spirit of yaam petra "inbam" peruga ivvaiyagam.
Cheers

I think i would be one of those, except for part (3). Part (2) has not happened but I would not consider if and when that happens, my children to be ‘lost’. a dil or sil is a welcome addition to the family and I hope I have the sense to welcome them fondly and lovingly irrespective of what or who they are. These will be my children’s well beloveds,and I love my children very much. Re (1) this is a very ambiguous statement. If it means teaching exclusivity and prejudice all in the name of caste, I have not inculcated such values. Only that we have a great hindu tradition, and we need to selectively choose the best of it.

 

[kunjuppu]

I am sure when people get married with a person from another caste, they do some introspection to see whether they are ready to face the challenges and are willing to make compromises. If they feel uncomfortable, then it is better they follow the well trodden path. I don't see any reason to fear the loss of identity because of these intercaste marriages if they are entered into with the right spirit and frame of mind.

Regards,
K. Kumar.

Very true kumar. It is only when one partner wants to practise ‘one upmanship’ discords arise. And for this, one does not need to have ic or ir marriages.

.. and one does not need to be a RC to eat non veg. I know tambram woman who enjoy meet, and yet feel comfortable wearing madisar, attending poNgallukku idudhal or thevasam.

… again there are tambram girls who do the dharbai holding unwilling or without sorrow. In my own case, due to distance, I did not have my wife to hold the dharbai for my parents’ ceremonies. Even when I went to kasi, it was with my sister. Only two of us could feel for our parents. I do not expect my wife to have that feeling for my parents, which she has for her parents.

 

[sangom]

Originally posted by renukakarthikayan
all of you guys who claim to be Agnostic now were once upon a time some ritualistic individual whose life didnt really go the way they wanted it to be.
If things went the way you guys wanted it to be would you guys be typing what you are preaching now?

Smt. Renuka,

I think you are making a very sweeping presumption in the above statement. On the contrary, I have heard some people remark : "if only these guys knew what real suffering in this world is, they will have belief in God, bhakti and humility" (and all the rest that goes for a front seat in heaven, IMO). So, either way it is heresy to say "I am agnostic", that is, "I am a person who claims that humans cannot have true knowledge about the existence of God (but does not deny that God might exist)", in a society which claims that God has been known but is not able to prove it in a scientific way. It is like insisting that tribal medicine is all that there is to know about medicine and to say that this is based on erroneous beliefs, is a crime.

True, I was born, was brought up and grew as any brahmin and was ritualistic up to a certain point. But as I said in post # 10 above, "what I write about religion is probably because I have "thought" on and about religion which, perhaps, I should not have done; instead I should have blindly followed."

See as a individual we have a right to our own thoughts but there is some amount of social responsibilty to make sure the new generation is not poisoned.
Do you think you are doing society a favor?
Ask yourself? is this what you want to leave behind?
And i am always so amazed how people who have unproven theories are so cock sure of what they say?

Don't you feel that the last line above can, with equal felicity and validity, be directed against you by the agnostics? My belief, and not "theory", is itself about an unknown and unproven god. Now to "unprove" an "unproven god" the most appropriate step will be to prove definitely the existence of a god as detailed by religion. Do you have such a proof which can be repeated with reasonable chance of success, like any of the medical facts with which you will be most familiar? If you don't have such a proof, is it not correct to say that your belief system is equally unproved? Then why should one unproved belief be considered sublime and the other one as ignoble?

About social responsibility; I feel I am living as a socially acceptable human being and has been living according to the requirements of the Constitution of India and the social responsibilities required of the citizens. IMHO, the Constitution does allow an Indian to be an agnostic and also to say that.

I don't think I am doing the society any disfavour. If at all, such agnostic thinking may help the Indian people to become better citizens and less superficially and blindly religious.

So homework for today is ask yourself..If things in life have gone the way you wnated it would you be writing all these today?
I dont mind if i come across as rude today cos i feel we Hindus have spared the sword too long.
thats why other religions behave better than us..cos they wont have their heads if they misbehaved.

I have finished my home work before time I think
Putting the sword to use is not merely rude, Smt. Renuka, it is cruel and, going by the latest weapons, crude too. Why not use an AK-47 or, better still, AK-48 instead? An agnostic like me does not feel threatened by the religious crowd and I never feel I should be rude to them.
*****Edtd - KRS - Sri Sangom Ji, I am shocked you would compare our member to someone like him!

 

[renuka]

Smt. Renuka,

I think you are making a very sweeping presumption in the above statement. On the contrary, I have heard some people remark : "if only these guys knew what real suffering in this world is, they will have belief in God, bhakti and humility" (and all the rest that goes for a front seat in heaven, IMO). So, either way it is heresy to say "I am agnostic", that is, "I am a person who claims that humans cannot have true knowledge about the existence of God (but does not deny that God might exist)", in a society which claims that God has been known but is not able to prove it in a scientific way. It is like insisting that tribal medicine is all that there is to know about medicine and to say that this is based on erroneous beliefs, is a crime.

True, I was born, was brought up and grew as any brahmin and was ritualistic up to a certain point. But as I said in post # 10 above, "what I write about religion is probably because I have "thought" on and about religion which, perhaps, I should not have done; instead I should have blindly followed."

Don't you feel that the last line above can, with equal felicity and validity, be directed against you by the agnostics? My belief, and not "theory", is itself about an unknown and unproven god. Now to "unprove" an "unproven god" the most appropriate step will be to prove definitely the existence of a god as detailed by religion. Do you have such a proof which can be repeated with reasonable chance of success, like any of the medical facts with which you will be most familiar? If you don't have such a proof, is it not correct to say that your belief system is equally unproved? Then why should one unproved belief be considered sublime and the other one as ignoble?

About social responsibility; I feel I am living as a socially acceptable human being and has been living according to the requirements of the Constitution of India and the social responsibilities required of the citizens. IMHO, the Constitution does allow an Indian to be an agnostic and also to say that.

I don't think I am doing the society any disfavour. If at all, such agnostic thinking may help the Indian people to become better citizens and less superficially and blindly religious.

I have finished my home work before time I think
Putting the sword to use is not merely rude, Smt. Renuka, it is cruel and, going by the latest weapons, crude too. Why not use an AK-47 or, better still, AK-48 instead? An agnostic like me does not feel threatened by the religious crowd and I never feel I should be rude to them.
Edtd - KRS

Dear Sangom,

I am not closer to God cos God has no preference! I dont mind being called cruel as long I made my point clear.
Ok have you ever seen you 1st ancestor from where your Gotra starts?
NO isnt it..But you believed he existed..so same with God..just we cant see Him with our eyes doesnt mean He doesnt exists or totally Unknown as you put it.
What I didnt like about you write is not your personal belief..I am not doubting your nature as a human being but you maintain the Rigveda thread well on one hand and then hit on Lord Krishna and now Lord Harihara by all baseless claims of being non vedic recent enteries?

Do you see any Satanist in this Forum talking bad of God?
You know at least they are focused on Satan and contemplate on Satan.
Do you realize what you are doing to the the way of life handed down by the ancient seers?
Think!!! You have the answer within.
I am no great mahan myself but there is already enough decay in the Hindu society and with posts like what you write just makes youngsters think that Hinduism is a just a compilation of lies and fake stories and what does that do?

You cant say this is Vedic and these are recent entries?
How are you so sure? Just becos you copy ,click and pasted some guys theory doesnt mean its correct.
Do you hold them above the ancient seers?
Have you done investigations yourself?

You know what you write will be the best tool for any one of any other faith to use as a weapon for conversion and thats worse that the sword i wrote about.
It will be like this " Hey guys check this out..a bunch of Tamil Brahmins the upmost of their Varna are disputing their own text..Wow man this is great!!! "
and next you know this will be used for any propaganda.

This is an open forum..anybody can be anyone and thats what i meant as a social responsibility.
I know many Atheist who do not say anything about God cos for all practical purposes God doesnt exist for them..so how can they talk about something that doesnt exists?
So they remain silent and do no harm to society.

But you are dangerous!!! You say that you are Agnostic and say that God is unknown.
See its a fact that the ultimate truth is Unknown but we are all working our way to it whether we realize it or not via and mostly thru the Saguna aspect.
So if you really feel that none of us know anything about the Unknown..so dont say demeaning stuff.
Let unknown be unknown and if others want to contemplate on the Saguna aspect of God let it be..be it Krishna or Harihara.

And just to let you know..time is not static when Matsya avatar came we didnt have Krishna yet..so as time went on history from yuga to yuga got compiled.
That doesnt mean anyone is a recent entry.
Like a lineage..you will have recent entries thru birth of children and grandchildren and so on but you cant say that they are not original to your lineage.

Ok I will put another point blank Q here.
Ok you see things evolve and change with time for example the Mangalsutra was a cultural and recent religous practise even you had said that in a post and its also a known fact but does that mean you will ask your wife to remove her Mangalsutra cos its a recent entry and hence non vedic?

What is Vedic and what is non vedic is the big Q here.
What does Vedas mean?
From the root word Vid.. To know..
So Vedas is not merely a static collection of hyms .

I dont mind being called Edtd - KRS..you are free to call me anything.
He was deluded and he paid the ultimate price.
You have no excuse to be deluded.
He killed many with weapons but you are killing Truth with your words.

P.S I rest my case after this and you are free to respond to me for which I wont be replying anymore on this topic cos this has not been too conducive to my internal peace.I have made my point clear and I rest my case.

 

[kunjuppu]

most dear renu,

so good to see you back here and so delightful to see your passions.

i wish to say 'aroused'.

but, i am being very very selfish here, dear lady.

i do not wish to lose you again.

please ensure that whatever you may post here, it is such, that, there is room to accommodate another dear friend of mine.

ie

sangom.

let us say, that i have two ears, two kadukkans gracing it,

one yourself, the other, sangom - as dear to me as yourself.

adorning these jewels, i wish to lift my head at the right angles towards the light, and ensure that the kadukkans flash their brilliance, enough, to dazzle all the brothers and sisters of this forum.

please take care. also caution.

warmest hugs

 

[renuka]

most dear renu,

so good to see you back here and so delightful to see your passions.

i wish to say 'aroused'.

but, i am being very very selfish here, dear lady.

i do not wish to lose you again.

please ensure that whatever you may post here, it is such, that, there is room to accommodate another dear friend of mine.

ie

sangom.

let us say, that i have two ears, two kadukkans gracing it,

one yourself, the other, sangom - as dear to me as yourself.

adorning these jewels, i wish to lift my head at the right angles towards the light, and ensure that the kadukkans flash their brilliance, enough, to dazzle all the brothers and sisters of this forum.

please take care. also caution.

warmest hugs

Dear Kunjuppu,

Dont worry I am not going anywhere and I will accomodate anyone.
I have no personal conflicts with Sangom its just a conflict of opinions.

thank you for your love and concern.
Yes you are right I am indeed 'aroused' and thats what I didnt like cos this kind of arousal only zaps energy.

And you know what I liked about Sangoms last line saying he is reminded of Ajmal Kasab cos this is not the 1st time I have been called a terrorist!! hehehehhe no jokes ok..I was known as Hindu Militant and Terrorist even at college cos I would be real quiet about religion and my beliefs and not many knew I had a firm believe in God cos of my rather modern outlook and when they started off about Hindusim in a negative way..they were in for a shocker!!! and thats how my name came about.

dear kunjuppu..dont worry i love all you guys..i was just making my point clear well may be in a terror manner..well sometimes to have peace you need war too.

 

[kunjuppu]

well sometimes to have peace you need war too.

renu,

this is a great punch line. i should remember this one.

fondly...yours truly

 

[renuka]

Dear Kunjs,

Its not my line..

The original Latin of the expression "if you want peace, prepare for war" comes from "Epitoma Rei Militaris," by Vegetius (Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus). The Latin is: "Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.

 

[renuka]

Dear Krs,

Its Ok..no need to Edit that line..After all even that individual mentioned is also an Atma who unfortunately got deluded.
I dont take it as an insult and I dont think Sangom also meant to insult me..He was just comparing the similarity in the force and usage of weapons in my post.

I dont wish to hurt anyones heart in what I write it just that I just made my point clear thats all.

 

[KRS]

Dear Srimathi Renuka Ji,

Yes, I knew you would feel this way.

I have enormous respect for Sri Sangom Ji as well.

But, I need to do my job. I really think that it was out of character for Sri Sangom Ji to write something like that, irrespective of the context.

Hope you understand.

Regards,
KRS

 

[sangom]

Dear Srimathi Renuka Ji,

Yes, I knew you would feel this way.

I have enormous respect for Sri Sangom Ji as well.

But, I need to do my job. I really think that it was out of character for Sri Sangom Ji to write something like that, irrespective of the context.

Hope you understand.

Regards,
KRS

Dear Shri KRS,

I did not write the edited sentence to equate Smt. Renuka to someone but, as I wrote the previous sentence "people who feel closer to god feel like that, perhaps" (this is from my memory, so may not be very correct), the poor misguided youth's picture came to my mind; how, in the passion for some unknown god and equally obscure descriptions about that god, people get so much aroused by wild passion. So, rest assured that my intention was not name-calling. Anyway good that you edited it out so that there is no problem.

But in the light of all that Smt. Renuka has written I would like to know if I am permitted to continue to express my views on Hindu religion as hitherto, or you would prefer that it be stopped. I can then decide accordingly.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Sangom,

Hinduism does not pre-suppose a belief in GOD. In fact most of the Hindu philosophical systems like Purva Mimansa, Nyaya, Yoga, Sankhya and Vaisheshika do not believe in a supreme GOD. They have been called Atheist.

Again belief in Puranas being history is not a pre-requisite for being a Hindu.

There have been people in this forum who have argued that belief in GOD, Puranas and human Avataras is a pre-requisite for being a Hindu. But that is not accepted.

Hinduism have always encouraged a spirit of enquiry. It is this spirit which has made Hinduism great. All our Acharyas have questioned the existing practices.

Unfortunately there are many people who believe that nothing should be questioned. This has led to the decadence of Hinduism.

Please continue your posts on Hinduism.

If some one believes that Guru and Vayu came to Kerala in the 16th century and erected a temple there, he is welcome to his belief. But that does not mean it is the truth.

Truth is many times unpalatable.

Please continue your posts on Hindu religion. Make people think, examine their existing beliefs critically.

We do have specific categories for that.

 

[sangom]

Sangom,

Hinduism does not pre-suppose a belief in GOD. In fact most of the Hindu philosophical systems like Purva Mimansa, Nyaya, Yoga, Sankhya and Vaisheshika do not believe in a supreme GOD. They have been called Atheist.

Again belief in Puranas being history is not a pre-requisite for being a Hindu.

There have been people in this forum who have argued that belief in GOD, Puranas and human Avataras is a pre-requisite for being a Hindu. But that is not accepted.

Hinduism have always encouraged a spirit of enquiry. It is this spirit which has made Hinduism great. All our Acharyas have questioned the existing practices.

Unfortunately there are many people who believe that nothing should be questioned. This has led to the decadence of Hinduism.

Please continue your posts on Hinduism.

If some one believes that Guru and Vayu came to Kerala in the 16th century and erected a temple there, he is welcome to his belief. But that does not mean it is the truth.

Truth is many times unpalatable.

Please continue your posts on Hindu religion. Make people think, examine their existing beliefs critically.

We do have specific categories for that.

Dear Shri Iniyan,

Thank you very much for your enlightened and supportive words.

Just a few days ago, a book in Malayalam titled "മരുന്നു പുരട്ടാന്‍ വേണ്ടി മുറിവ് ഉണ്ടാക്കുന്നവന്‍" marunnu puraṭṭān- veṇṭi muṟiv uṇṭākkunnavan-, written by a IX Standard girl from an average hindu family, was published here in TVPM. The title means "one who creates wound/cut, in order to apply salve" and gives the girl's views about the god-concept. What I want to point out is that in the emerging milieu, it appears that the old entrenched religious ideas will come more and more under questioning by intrepid minds, even very young, in an open religion like hinduism. The only way to stem the tide perhaps will be to mold future generations into unquestioning zombies and keep an army of "saviours of hinduism" ready who would ruthlessly nip in the bud any such differing points of view. That way, we can take hinduism nearer to the other fundamentalist religions.

 

[renuka]

YouTube - Michael Jackson - Thriller


Zombie Army..dance real well Ok..

 

[suraju06]

Dear Kunjuppu,

Raju, not sure if these alone are the factors. There are probably many more, but these are good for starters.

Yes I agree. But I wanted to make it very brief.

Originally Posted by suraju06
3. Keep engaging your children in conversation. Live as an example to them and teach them values. Cheers
Correct 100%. It should be ‘live by the values that you wish to teach them’. again this does not necessarily translate into them following it. They can see through hypocracy. Or for other reasons, decide to eschew your values.

I differ.I may not be able to live by certain values and yet I would like my children to pick them up. When I make it plain and transparent that it is my inability and not disregard or unwillingness that is the culprit there is no need to think of any hypocracy. Values are not cookies that I give them. They are intangibles and accepting or rejecting will depend on their journey of life.

Originally Posted by suraju06
6. Yes, I forgot this very important point. After the marriage at least for 2 years send them to live separately in a thanikudithanam Cheers
Why only two years? What is wrong if they want to live permanently separate? Why plonk on them unless they invite you. wholeheartedly, and not out of sense of duty. This type of thinking, I think, is yet another example of why our girls run away. They don’t want to be borne with the burden of caretakers of inlaws. They have their own parents to think of. I detect a male bias here.

Please note the word 'atleast'. You can not, in any case, make them live with the PILs if they do not want. If it is going to be permanent தனிக்குடித்தனம் , it is perfectly ok as long as the parents do not end up in a well maintained but emotionally empty old age home. I agree with you that bringing up children giving them a good value system is parent's duty while children do not have any such duty to their parents!

Posted by suraju06
Please be choosy about taking advice from (1) those who have not cared to teach values and culture and importance of the roots to their children (2) those who have already lost their children to an alien culture(3) Who have themselves gone astray and would like you to join them with your children in a spirit of yaam petra "inbam" peruga ivvaiyagam.

I think i would be one of those, except for part (3). Part (2) has not happened but I would not consider if and when that happens, my children to be ‘lost’. a dil or sil is a welcome addition to the family and I hope I have the sense to welcome them fondly and lovingly irrespective of what or who they are. These will be my children’s well beloveds,and I love my children very much.

I am sure Vasumathi would have taken note of my advice.

Re (1) this is a very ambiguous statement. If it means teaching exclusivity and prejudice all in the name of caste, I have not inculcated such values. Only that we have a great hindu tradition, and we need to selectively choose the best of it.

Did you have a choice? I think Vasumathi has.

Cheers.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Shri Iniyan,

Thank you very much for your enlightened and supportive words.

Just a few days ago, a book in Malayalam titled "മരുന്നു പുരട്ടാന്‍ വേണ്ടി മുറിവ് ഉണ്ടാക്കുന്നവന്‍" marunnu puraṭṭān- veṇṭi muṟiv uṇṭākkunnavan-, written by a IX Standard girl from an average hindu family, was published here in TVPM. The title means "one who creates wound/cut, in order to apply salve" and gives the girl's views about the god-concept. What I want to point out is that in the emerging milieu, it appears that the old entrenched religious ideas will come more and more under questioning by intrepid minds, even very young, in an open religion like hinduism. The only way to stem the tide perhaps will be to mold future generations into unquestioning zombies and keep an army of "saviours of hinduism" ready who would ruthlessly nip in the bud any such differing points of view. That way, we can take hinduism nearer to the other fundamentalist religions.

Dear Sangom Sir,

marunnu puraṭṭān- veṇṭi muṟiv uṇṭākkunnavanHow insightful are these words!! All the old entrenched ideas are not bad. When they come under question answers will be found and intrepid minds will get the satisfaction that these are things which are not as bad as they are made out to be. It would be the best thing that can happen to Hinduism if these 'intrepid questioners-turned-nihilists' do not convert themselves into an army of crusader zombies who would ruthlessly nip in the bud any differing points of view.

 

[suraju06]

Hi Suraju06,

I normally don't get into prolonged discussions to prove my point or disprove other's point. Every one forms their opinions based on their experiences and each one is valid. I respect these opinions.

To answer your question regarding differences, differences exist in all marriages. Marriage is the union of two individuals who come from different backgrounds (even if they belong to the same caste /religion/ region etc). There are bound to be differences in tastes, outlooks and approach. Over a period of time the couple learn each others likes/dislikes and make adjustments so they could lead a harmonious life, setting up a family and procreate and give each other companionship in their old age. As long as the two individuals respect each other and not get into the mode of proving that only my point is right, ironing out these differences are quite easy.

Now coming to the specific example you had given, if a brahmin marries that boy who kills the chicken for dinner, respects the boys behavior and accepts it and not pass any moral judgement displaying a holier than thou attitude there should be no problem in adjustment. In my own case, my wife is a non-vegetarian and I respect her right to eat Non Vegetarian. She respects my wish to be a vegetarian and neither of us pass any comments on the other's eating habits. We have not had any problems. I know some vegetarians have problems eating food with a non vegetarian. Then it is one of the adjustments they will have to make for the marriage to be successful. In my experience, as long as the two individuals share common moral values, things like religious rituals, community customs are trivial things. When I had to perform funeral rites for my parents, my wife was by my side wearing a madisar and holding the darbai in her hand touching my shoulder as any other brahmin women would do. In fact, my aunt who is 96 years old was so impressed that she told me that even brahmin girls now a days don't do things with the interest and care that my wife displayed. So they can be very easily achieved.

I am sure when people get married with a person from another caste, they do some introspection to see whether they are ready to face the challenges and are willing to make compromises. If they feel uncomfortable, then it is better they follow the well trodden path. I don't see any reason to fear the loss of identity because of these intercaste marriages if they are entered into with the right spirit and frame of mind.

Regards,
K. Kumar.

Dear Kumar,

I think you missed my point. Please read the last line of my post. It was only a loud thinking I was making. Thank you for your reply.

Cheers.

 

[suraju06]

Madam, I am pretty sure there is no "brahmin gene". Children inherit the genes of their parents, but there is no single gene that produces Brahmin babies.

This is not clear, in most other places outside South Asia caste is an alien concept. Do you think they have "no goals and achievements of any sort"?

Thank you....

Dear Vasumathi,

Caste is all about culture and value system. Cultural practices and value system do affect genes for which there is scientific evidence. So you have perhaps intuitively understood the caste better. In south asia we call it caste in other countries they call it by other names. Differences do exist in the society between identifiable groups of people and you can call it by some other name if you do not want to call it castes. Would it indeed be nice if there are no such differences at all? Answer is very difficult to give. So despite all the sagely advices you get it would be better to follow what your intuition says in such matters.
Cheers.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Shri KRS,

But in the light of all that Smt. Renuka has written I would like to know if I am permitted to continue to express my views on Hindu religion as hitherto, or you would prefer that it be stopped. I can then decide accordingly.

dear sangom,

please continue your views on hindu religion. i find these are a mirror to finding expressions for my own feelings.

thank you sir.

 

[kunjuppu]

Did you have a choice? I think Vasumathi has.

Cheers.

dear suraju,

i think we all of a choice especially when imparting values.

for example, when i had my poonal, i had my NB friends hovering about. the vathiyar immediately drew me aside, and told me that under no circumstance was i to utter hymns like gayathri in front of shudras.

that these were my dearest friends, he did not understand.

this was my initation into the world of double standard of our caste - one rule before God for us. another for the others.

it so happened that i went to a catholic school. even though the tamil catholics practised the concept of caste, before their god, they considered all of them equal.

to me, this entrenched sense of superiority, expressed in so many subtle but definite ways, is one that i cannot live with myself. hence, i had a choice. like many other tambrams in toronto, blindly repeat what they have heard from their parents, or come up with a more egalitarian approach to our traditions.

i chose the latter. so you see suraju, i had a choice. i exercised it.

i am not saying it is the right one. for as a parent, i am always in doubt about the values i have imparted. for you never know, how these could be turned around, later in life.

after all, i myself, am a perfect example of that. unfortunately, my dad is not around, to answer that query.

thank you.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom Sir,

marunnu puraṭṭān- veṇṭi muṟiv uṇṭākkunnavanHow insightful are these words!! All the old entrenched ideas are not bad. When they come under question answers will be found and intrepid minds will get the satisfaction that these are things which are not as bad as they are made out to be. It would be the best thing that can happen to Hinduism if these 'intrepid questioners-turned-nihilists' do not convert themselves into an army of crusader zombies who would ruthlessly nip in the bud any differing points of view.

Dear Shri Raju,

Right now those who hold the view that all the old entrenched ideas have to be necessarily true, to be unquestioningly accepted, seem to be convinced that any differences, any doubts, any suggestions, etc., if expressed have to be opposed as a moral and religious duty. As the ways of the world go, I will not rule out the exact opposite scenario you give also, though I may not be there at that time. But that will be a long time from now, I feel. It is very similar to what is currently happening in the tabra marriage scene — girls dictating terms and conditions to boys, which is the exact opposite of what was happening a few decades ago.

 

[renuka]

dear sangom,

please continue your views on hindu religion. i find these are a mirror to finding expressions for my own feelings.

thank you sir.

YouTube - Michael Jackson - Man In The Mirror (Original Clip)

 

[sangom]

dear suraju,

i think we all of a choice especially when imparting values.

to me, this entrenched sense of superiority, expressed in so many subtle but definite ways, is one that i cannot live with myself. hence, i had a choice. like many other tambrams in toronto, blindly repeat what they have heard from their parents, or come up with a more egalitarian approach to our traditions.

i chose the latter. so you see suraju, i had a choice. i exercised it.

i am not saying it is the right one. for as a parent, i am always in doubt about the values i have imparted. for you never know, how these could be turned around, later in life.

Dear Kunjuppu,

In this world, a parent, a father, cannot "impart", in the sense "teach" any value to his children, IMHO. The best that can be done is that we do not play "hypocrite" towards our children though it may be necessary to lie to someone in front of them at times. And it is very likely that children will question you or sometimes even expose the lie in front of the very people to whom we so act. Never scold the children for that and try to make them understand, if they can. Once they know that you are not setting one rule for yourself and another for them (children) as regards moral values and that you are open to them, they will learn, each according to his/her nature. I feel our duty as parent can go only this far.

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Vasumathi,

Caste is all about culture and value system. Cultural practices and value system do affect genes for which there is scientific evidence. So you have perhaps intuitively understood the caste better. In south asia we call it caste in other countries they call it by other names. Differences do exist in the society between identifiable groups of people and you can call it by some other name if you do not want to call it castes. Would it indeed be nice if there are no such differences at all? Answer is very difficult to give. So despite all the sagely advices you get it would be better to follow what your intuition says in such matters.
Cheers.

Shri Raju,

Am keen to know this from a scientist as yourself -- what are the scientific evidences which say that genes are affected due to caste-culture ?

Regards.