Introduction to Vedic Astrology

[GANESH65]

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Here is another piece of info you may use about my birthday:

It was a somavati mauni amavasya.​

I am told that one's spirituality can be known from one's vimamsa divisional chart. Can you interpret my vimsamsa chart?

Yes Amavasya is another factor for spiritual inclination. This thithi is known as sunya thithi. As already said, the five factors of Panchangam, Thithi, Varam, Nakshtram, Yogam and Karanam are important for an event or birth. Normally some doshams exists to one or more of these factors in every horoscope. Amavasya thithi is considered as sunya thithi, the thithi dosham won't be there. Rest I will let you know after analysis of your horoscope.

Yes. Vimsamsa chart is important aspect to be examined for prospects of spiritual inclination of a person. There are 64 divisions to the main chart - D/1. Vimsamsa is positioned at 20 (D/20). There are many other factors like 5th house, 5th lord 8th & 9th house and its lord, 12th house and its lord position of Saturn & Ketu etc etc are to be analyzed in detail . As I have already said, this thread is at quite initial stage and I don't think it would be appropriate to discuss all these at this stage. In case you prefer, I will send these details through your email, please share it through PM. I also think, sharing/discussing personal details on a public thread is also not appropriate, so let us do it in person.

 

[sravna]

Yes Amavasya is another factor for spiritual inclination. This thithi is known as sunya thithi. As already said, the five factors of Panchangam, Thithi, Varam, Nakshtram, Yogam and Karanam are important for an event or birth. Normally some doshams exists to one or more of these factors in every horoscope. Amavasya thithi is considered as sunya thithi, the thithi dosham won't be there. Rest I will let you know after analysis of your horoscope.

Yes. Vimsamsa chart is important aspect to be examined for prospects of spiritual inclination of a person. There are 64 divisions to the main chart - D/1. Vimsamsa is positioned at 20 (D/20). There are many other factors like 5th house, 5th lord 8th & 9th house and its lord, 12th house and its lord position of Saturn & Ketu etc etc are to be analyzed in detail . As I have already said, this thread is at quite initial stage and I don't think it would be appropriate to discuss all these at this stage. In case you prefer, I will send these details through your email, please share it through PM. I also think, sharing/discussing personal details on a public thread is also not appropriate, so let us do it in person.

Sure Shri Ganesh. Kindly send your analysis to [email protected]

 

[GANESH65]

Technically the sun does not rise or set...Earth goes around its axis and we get night and day..and earth goes around the sun too..so its a double spin we are being taken for!LOL

Anyway I am of the Ardra Nakshatram...would be interested to share my horoscope with you for research tru PM.

When I discuss astrology, rules of Astrology rules! In astrology Earth is not a planet, Rahu, Ketu, Sun & Moon are! And for the sake of our calculations we consider Sun, Star & Rasis rises and sets----- I can't help, I have to abide these rules... LOL Rest please see your PM section. Let us don't discuss personal details in an open thread...

 

[GANESH65]

I think, these questions of yours got skipped in volley of other issues Renuka, lets take it now.

Personally I have a question with regards to astrology..that is...what are the latest discovery in the field of astrology? Does it progress too and have new findings that prove old findings wrong and inaccurate or is it just a static field that does not evolve and has already reached its peak in application?

Your questions have three parts let us take it part by part

i) What are the latest discovery in the field of astrology? There are many. We at the Institute of astrology, Bharatiya Vidhya Bhawan, Kasturba Ganhdi Marg, New Delhi and many other students passed out courses on astrology from this institute are continuously doing researches on various subjects/aspects of astrology and publishes our results in Journal of Astrology, published by the institute. To quote some thing here, I need to check whether it violates the copy rights or not. So let me check it first. Unfortunately I must also agree that there are many astrologers who have found something new, won't like to share them in public as it has become a business for them and sharing their secrets would adversely affect their business. This mentality has quite adversely affected the progress of this science.

ii)Does it progress too and have new findings that prove old findings wrong and inaccurate or is it just a static field that does not evolve and has already reached its peak in application?

I think half of the reply for this query has already given above. As regards whether it has already reached its peak in application my answer would be a big no. This is such science that it can never reach its peak, Its a continuous process and what is known to us is very little. We need to explore more on this subject so as to find out many things that are not explained so far.

 

[renuka]

I think, these questions of yours got skipped in volley of other issues Renuka, lets take it now.



Your questions have three parts let us take it part by part

i) What are the latest discovery in the field of astrology? There are many. We at the Institute of astrology, Bharatiya Vidhya Bhawan, Kasturba Ganhdi Marg, New Delhi and many other students passed out courses on astrology from this institute are continuously doing researches on various subjects/aspects of astrology and publishes our results in Journal of Astrology, published by the institute. To quote some thing here, I need to check whether it violates the copy rights or not. So let me check it first. Unfortunately I must also agree that there are many astrologers who have found something new, won't like to share them in public as it has become a business for them and sharing their secrets would adversely affect their business. This mentality has quite adversely affected the progress of this science.

ii)Does it progress too and have new findings that prove old findings wrong and inaccurate or is it just a static field that does not evolve and has already reached its peak in application?

I think half of the reply for this query has already given above. As regards whether it has already reached its peak in application my answer would be a big no. This is such science that it can never reach its peak, Its a continuous process and what is known to us is very little. We need to explore more on this subject so as to find out many things that are not explained so far.

Thank you for reply.

 

[athimber]

Hey Athim,

This Gugley of yours has put me in a bit of bother. In fact this point was neither much debated nor kind of scripts/literature I have seen about it. Any how let me explain what ever I know on this subject. Abhijeet in simple translation means victorious. The brightest star in Lyra constellation, Vega is called as Abhijeet in Sanskrit. As the name itself suggests it is for the elite club. Now a days we follow the normal 27 Nakshtras only in our daily panchangam. However if you closely watch people born in last leg of Uthradam or 1st leg of Thiruvonam you will find some of them do excellently well in their life. Since the time span of Abhijeet Nakshtra is very short so will be the people born during this time. If we gather information about them and analyze, we will find them as Abhijeetians although they may officially claim their Nakshtra as Uthradam or Thiruvonam. Please watch for it and if you come across (you will definitely find a handful of people like this.)any one like this, please let me know. I would also like to analyze such horoscopes. Apart from that Lord Krishna used to call himself as an Abhijeetian .In Bhagavad Geeta, Krishna said that He was Shiva among Rudras; He was Arjuna among Pandava and He was Abhijit among Nakshatras. All these statements underline the importance of Abhijit.


Like Nakshtra, there is Abhijeet Muhurtham as well.Classical vedic texts mention Abhijit as one of the most auspicious time for doing any auspicious activity excepting travelling to southern direction. Its deity is Lord Brahma. Some vedic texts also mention that 28 minutes before and 28 minutes after 12:00 clock (a.m. and p.m. both) is called as Abhijit Muhurtham . This Muhuratham is so auspicious as it is believed that you don't need to consider any other factor if you choose this one as your muhurtham. The interesting fact is that Lord Rama was born at 12:00 a.m. and Lord Krishna was born at 12:00 p.m. Incidentally you may now like to see the time of beginning of this very thread (post No. 1)


NB: In case any of our learned members have more information in this very subject may please share it here so that more clarity is brought in to this query of Athimber.

Hi That is a good one. But I don't play Cricket, so instead of Gugley you may use Ace as I used to play lot of tennis during my younger days. LOL By the way the explanations are simply marvelous. I think I am getting slowly addicted to this thread and becoming a fan of you. And thanks for the term used to address me...

 

[athimber]

Frenz,

Hope many you have sent your details/horoscopes to Ganesh like me. Please post the portion here, you find can be shared in this forum, just for the sake of curiosity.

 

[tbs]

Its an occasion to celebrate Sir. Congratulations. You are also a rare breed. Please share your horoscope if you don't mind for my research through PM.

hi ganesh sir,

thanks...i will send my details thru PM....

 

[GANESH65]

Lets get back to business. What I now want to discuss is that every zodiac sign (Rashi) has its own characteristics and unique features with which they are identified. They denote their special utility in the chart which means we can easily identify where to look for which purpose. The houses starting from Lagna to 12th are also have their own characteristics and so has Nakshatras.

It is very important to know the characteristics of the signs before analyzing the charts. Here is the compilation of all the characters of Rashis.

Based on Mobility of the Rashis:
Movable signs or Chara Rashis – Mesha (Aries), Kataka (Cancer), Tula (Libra) and Makara (Capricorn) are Chara rashis or movable signs.
Fixed signs or Sthira Rashis – Rishabha (Taurus), Simha (Leo), Vrischika (Scorpio) and Kumbha (Aquarius) are Sthira rashis or fixed signs.
Dual signs or Dwi Swabhava rashis – Mithuna (Gemini), Kanya (Virgo), Dhanus (Sagittarius) and Meena (Pisces) are Dwi swabhava rashis or Dual signs.

Rashi Tatwas:
Fiery Signs or Agni tatwa Rashis – Mesha (Aries), Simha (Leo) and Dhanus (Sagittarius)
Earth signs or Prithvi tatwa Rashis – Vrishabha (Taurus), Kanya (Virgo) and Makara (Capricorn).
Air Signs or Vayu tatwa Rashis – Mithuna (Gemini), Tula (Libra) and Kumbha (Aquarius).
Watery Signs or Jala tatwa Rashis – Kataka (Cancer), Vrishchika (Scorpio) and Meena (Pisces).

Dwarf, Medium and Tall Signs or Hraswadi Rashis –
Dwarf or Hrasva Rashis – Mesha (Aries), Rishabha (Taurus), Kumbha (Aquarius) and Meena (Pisces).
Medium or Sama Rashis – Mithuna (Gemini), Kataka (Cancer), Dhanus (Sagittarius) and Makara (Capricorn).
Tall Signs or Deergha Rashis – Simha (Leo), Kanya (Virgo), Tula (Libra) and Vrishchika (Scorpio).

Andhaka – Badira – Pangu Rashis:
Andhaka or Blind Signs – Mesha (Aries), Vrishabha (Taurus), Mithuna (Gemini), Kataka (Cancer) and Simha (Leo).
Badira or Deaf Signs – Tula (Libra), Vrishchika (Scorpio), Dhanus (Sagittarius) and Makara (Capricorn).
Pangu or Lame Signs – Kumbha (Aquarius) and Meena (Pisces).

Signs based on they rise:
Sheershodaya Rashis – These are signs or rashis which are rising from head. They are: Mithuna (Gemini), Simha (Leo), Kanya (Virgo), Tula (Libra), Vrishchika (Scorpio) and Kumbha (Aquarius).
Prishtodaya Rashis – These are signs or rashis which are rising from back. They are: Mesha (Aries), Vrishabha (Taurus), Kataka (Cancer), Dhanus (Sagittarius) and Makara (Capricorn).
Ubhayodaya Rashis – These are signs or rashis which are rising from both head and back. Meena (Pisces) represents this category.

Chanchala – Shantha – Dwi Swabhava Rashis:
Chanchala or Wavering Mind signs – Mesha (Aries), Kataka (Cancer), Tula (Libra) and Makara (Capricorn).
Shantha or Calm Mind Signs – Vrishabha (Taurus), Simha (Leo), Vrishchika (Scorpio) and Kumbha (Aquarius).
Dwiswabhava Rashis – Mithuna (Gemini), Kanya (Virgo) and Dhanus (Sagittarius).

Balabala Sthana Rashis:
Divabali Rahis or Strong During Day – Simha (Leo), Kanya (Virgo), Tula (Libra), Vrishchika (Scorpio), Kumbha (Aquarius) and Meena (Pisces) are strong during the day.
Ratribali Rashis or Strong during Night – Mesha (Aries), Vrishabha (Taurus), Mithuna (Gemini), Kataka (Cancer), Dhanus (Sagittarius) and Makara (Capricorn).

Gender of the Rashis:
Male Signs – Mesha, Mithuna, Simha, Tula, Dhanus and Kumbha
Female Signs – Vrishabha, Kataka, Kanya, Vrischika, Makara and Meena.

Direction of the Rashis:
East Direction – Mesha, Simha and Dhanus Rashis
South Direction – Vrishabha, Kanya and Makara Rashis
West Direction – Mithuna, Tula and Kumbha Rashis
North Direction – Kataka, Vrischika and Meena Rashis

Cast of the Rashis:
Brahmana Rashis – Kataka, Vrischika and Meena Rashis
Kshatriya Rashis – Mesha, Simha and Dhanus Rashis
Vaishya Rashis – Vrishabha, Kanya and Makara Rashis
Shudra Rashis – Mithuna, Tula and Kumbha Rashis

Prakruti and Vikruti Chakra:
Prakruti Chakra – Mesha, Vrishabha, Mithuna, Kataka, Simha and Kanya are comes under Prakruti Chakras. If planets gets lordships in these rashis they give maximum results in first half of the dasha.
Vikruti Chakra – Tula, Vrischika, Dhanus, Makara, Kumbha and Meena are under Vikruti Chakra. If planets gets lordships in these rashis they give maximum results in second half of the dasha.

Temperaments of Rashis (Kapha, Pitta and Vayu):
Billious (Pitta) Rashis – Mesha, Simha and Dhanus.
Windy Rashis – Vrishabha, Kanya and Makara.
Mix: Mithuna, Tula and Kumbha
Phelgm or Kapha: Kataka, Vrischika and Meena.

Biped, Quadruped and Keeta Rashis:
Biped or Human Signs: Mithuna, Kanya, first half of Dhanus and Kumbha
Quadruped (4 legged) Rashis – Mesha, Vrishabha, Simha, Second half of Dhanus and first half of Makara
Keeta (Insect) Rashis – Kataka and vrischika

Garbha Rashyadi Rashis:
Garbha Rashis – Mithuna, Kanya, Dhanus and Meena Rashis.
Dwara Rashis – Mesha, Kataka, Tula and Makara Rashis.
Bahya Rashis – Vrishabha, Simha, Vrischika and Kumbha Rahis.

Surya, Chandra Nadi Lagnas:
Chandra Nadi Lagna – Vrishabha, Kataka, Kanya, Vrischika, Makara and Meena Rashis
Surya Nadi Lagna – Mesha, Mithuna, Simha, Tula, Dhanus and Kumbha Rashis.

 

[GANESH65]

RASHI WISE COMPILATION OF ITS CHARACTERISTICS:


1.Aries – Mesha

Place indicated by this Rasi : The places, where
goats roam around and hills.
Short/medium/long : Short
Day or Night strong : Strong during night
Rising of Rasi : Prishtodaya or rises with its back
Watery/Dry Rasi : Dry
Foot or padha : Quadruped sign.
Class or Varna : Royal or Kshatriya
Dhatu/Moola/Jeeva : Mineral or Dhatu
Body part : Head
Color : Blood red

Dynamic, enterprising, valiant, ruddy, forests,
large forehead, hasty, impulsive, restless, thick
eyebrows, leadership, overbearing, dry lean, tall.

2.Taurus - Rishaba
Place indicated by this Rasi : The table land, farms,
the cow station and the forest.
Short/medium/long : Short
Day or Night strong : Strong during night
Rising of Rasi : Prishtodaya or rises with its back
Watery/Dry Rasi : Water resorter
Foot or padha : Quadruped sign.
Class or Varna : Vaishya or Businessmen
Dhatu/Moola/Jeeva : Vegetables or Moola
Body part : Face/mouth
Color : White

Beautiful, stable, sluggish, loyal, meadows, plains,
luxury halls, dining halls, eating places, fine teeth,
large eyes, luxurious, faithful, thick hair, stout.

3.Gemini - Mithuna
Place indicated by this Rasi : The gambling house and
pleasure haunts such as park or Garden.
Short/medium/long : Medium
Day or Night strong : Strong during night
Rising of Rasi : Shrishtodaya or rises with its head
Watery/Dry Rasi : Water reorter
Foot or padha : Biped sign.
Class or Varna : Sudra or worker
Dhatu/Moola/Jeeva : Animals
Body part : Arms/Chest
Color : Grass green

Garden, communication, journalism, schools, colleges,
study rooms, cables, telephone, newspapers, tall,
well-built, prominent cheeks, thick hair, broad chest,
curious, learned, jovial.

4.Cancer - Karkataka
Place indicated by this Rasi : A lake or pond or a
sand-bank in the midst of water.
Short/medium/long : Medium
Day or Night strong : Strong during night
Rising of Rasi : Prishtodaya or rises with its back
Watery/Dry Rasi : Watery
Foot or padha : Centipede sign.
Class or Varna : Brahmin or Wise
Dhatu/Moola/Jeeva : Mineral or Dhatu
Body part : Heart
Color : Pink

Breast, watery fields, rivers, canals, kitchen, food,
attractive small build, emotional, deeply attached,
mother-like, sensitive

5.Leo - Simha
Place indicated by this Rasi : Deep mountain-caves
and dense forests.
Short/medium/long : Long
Day or Night strong : Strong during Day
Rising of Rasi : Seershodaya or rises with its head
Watery/Dry Rasi : Dry
Foot or padha : Quadruped sign.
Class or Varna : Royal or Kshatriya
Dhatu/Moola/Jeeva : Vegetables or Moola
Body part : Stomach
Color : Off white, khaki

Digestion, navel, mountains, forests, caves, deserts,
palaces, parks, forts, boilers, steel factories,
thin, dry, hot, royal, self-pride, insolent, domineering.

6.Virgo - Kanya
Place indicated by this Rasi : A pasture-land or the
pleasure room of a women.
Short/medium/long : Long
Day or Night strong : Strong during day
Rising of Rasi : Seershodaya or rises with its head
Watery/Dry Rasi : Water resorter
Foot or padha : Biped sign.
Class or Varna : Vaishya or Businessmen
Dhatu/Moola/Jeeva : Animal or Jeeva
Body part : Hip
Color : Gray

Appendix, lush gardens, fields, orchards, libraries,
bookstores, farms, intelligent, sharp, orator,
ervous, physically weak, discretion, tactfulness.

7.Libra - Thula
Place indicated by this Rasi : The bazaar of a city
abounding in all kinds of valuable things.
Short/medium/long : Long
Day or Night strong : Strong during day
Rising of Rasi : Seershodaya or rises with its head
Watery/Dry Rasi : Dry
Foot or padha : Biped sign.
Class or Varna : Sudra or worker
Dhatu/Moola/Jeeva : Mineral or Dhatu
Body part : Groin
Color : Black

Businessmen, markets, trade centers, banks, hotels,
amusement parks, entertainment, toilets, cosmetics,
balanced, wise, good talker.

8.Scorpio - Vrischika
Symbol of this Rasi : Scorpio or Vrischika.
Place indicated by this Rasi : A region abounding
in flint, or holes or noxious reptiles.
Short/medium/long : Long
Day or Night strong : Strong during day
Rising of Rasi : Seershodaya or rises with its head
Watery/Dry Rasi : Watery
Foot or padha : Centipede
Class or Varna : Brahmin or Wise
Dhatu/Moola/Jeeva : Vegetables or Moola
Body part : Private parts
Color : Reddish brown(Parasara),Light yellow(Varahamihira)

Holes, deep caves, mines, garages, small build,
dusky complexion, bright eyes, secretive, scheming,
occult, best friend or a worst enemy, peevish, sensitive

9.Sagittarius – Dhanus
Place indicated by this Rasi : The camp or barrack
containing horses chariots and elephants.
Short/medium/long : Medium
Day or Night strong : Strong during night
Rising of Rasi : Prishtodaya or rises with its back
Watery/Dry Rasi : Dry
Foot or padha : Biped for 1 st 15 degrees and quadruped
for the next 15 degrees.
Class or Varna : Royal or Kshatriya
Dhatu/Moola/Jeeva : Animal or Jeeva
Body part : Thighs
Color : Tawny (yellowish or dullish golden brown)

Royal, attorneys, government offices, aircraft, falling,
sparse hair, muscular, deep eyes, upright, honest, genital,
gambler.

10.Capricorn - Makara
Place indicated by this Rasi : The river or other
water-abounding region, like paradise where, deer and
crocodile lives.
Short/medium/long : Medium
Day or Night strong : Strong during night
Rising of Rasi : Prishtodaya or rises with its back
Watery/Dry Rasi : Watery
Foot or padha : Quradruped for 1 st 15 degrees and
footless for the next 15 degrees.
Class or Varna : Vaishya or Businessmen
Dhatu/Moola/Jeeva : Mineral or Dhatu
Body part : Knees
Color : Blue

Marshlands, watery places, alligators, beasts, bushes,
slender build, long neck, prominent teeth, witty,
perfectionist, patient, organizer, cautious, secretive, pragmatic.

11.Aquarius - Kumbha
Place indicated by this Rasi : Water-pot and the
receptacles of vessels in a house
Short/medium/long : Short
Day or Night strong : Strong during day
Rising of Rasi : Seershodaya or rises with its head
Watery/Dry Rasi : Water-resorter
Foot or padha : Biped
Class or Varna : Sudra or Worker
Dhatu/Moola/Jeeva : Vegetables or Moola
Body part : Calves, Ankles
Color : Deep brown

Charity, philosophy, tall, body, small eyes, mountain
spring, places with water, ill-formed teeth, coarse
hair, hard working, stoic, honest.

12.Pisces - Meena
Place indicated by this Rasi : River, sea and similar
collection of water.
Short/medium/long : Medium as per Jataka Parijata and
Short as per Saravali.
Day or Night strong : Strong during day
Rising of Rasi : Seershodaya and Prishtodaya or rises
with both head and back
Watery/Dry Rasi : Watery
Foot or padha : Footless
Class or Varna : Brahmin or Wise
Dhatu/Moola/Jeeva : Animal or Jeeva
Body part : Feet
Color : Transparent

Oceans, seas, prisons, hospitals, hermitages, short,
plump, large eyes, large eyebrows, lazy, emotional,
timid, honest, irresolute, talkative, intuitive.

If you really want excel in the field of astrology please these characteristics by heart so that you are able to decide where exactly to look for any query posed by the Client.

 

[auh]

Our astrology might have been influenced by the greek system... as per this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_astrology

The foundation of Hindu astrology is the notion of bandhu of the Vedas, (scriptures), which is the connection between the microcosm and the macrocosm. Practice relies primarily on the sidereal zodiac, which is different from the tropical zodiac used in Western (Hellenistic) astrology in that an ayanāṁśa adjustment is made for the gradual precession of the vernal equinox. Hindu astrology includes several nuanced sub-systems of interpretation and prediction with elements not found in Hellenistic astrology, such as its system of lunar mansions (Nakṣatra). It was only after the transmission of Hellenistic astrology that the order of planets in India was fixed in that of the seven-day week.[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP]:383[/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP] Hellenistic astrology and astronomy also transmitted the twelve zodiacal signs beginning with Aries and the twelve astrological places beginning with the ascendant.[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP]:384[/SUP] The first evidence of the introduction of Greek astrology to India is the Yavanajātaka which dates to the early centuries CE.[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP]:383[/SUP] The Yavanajātaka ("Sayings of the Greeks") was translated from Greek to Sanskrit by Yavaneśvara during the 2nd century CE, under the patronage of the Western Satrap Saka king Rudradaman I, and is considered the first Indian astrological treatise in the Sanskrit language.[SUP][7][/SUP] However the only version that survives is the later verse version of Sphujidhvaja which dates to AD 270.[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP]:383[/SUP] The first Indian astronomical text to define the weekday was the Āryabhaṭīya of Āryabhaṭa (born AD 476).[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP]:383[/SUP]

http://earthsky.org/space/what-is-the-zodiac

To complicate matters more, the constellations – unlike the astrological signs – are not of equal size and shape. The stars that make up a constellation are not, for the most part, physically related. The constellations are just patterns that our ancestors saw as they gazed skyward and tried to make sense of it all. Today’s constellations are specific to ancient Greek culture. Most of them were introduced by the Greek astronomer Ptolemy in the 2nd century (who in turn borrowed them from ancient Babylonian texts). Different cultures have seen patterns in the sky unique to their history. Some constellations are shared by many cultures (Orion is a notable example), but most are not.

I have some doubts / queries concerning astrology.

1) The rasi is a group of constellation of stars where ancestors saw a specific pattern. How do such a pattern acquire specific powers to influence our destiny?
2) There might be even more constellations available if we were to use modern techniques. If such a thing were possible, how do we attribute characteristics to such a new one?
3) The lagnam or the ascendant, as is explained in the link I gave mentions the apparent position of the sun in alignment with the constellation. The sun really does not move. The chart is thus a basic tool that might indicate the planetary position at the time of birth. How does such an association influence our lives?
4) Moreover, how do the planets get their attributes from? Is it just an assumption or is it based on how we superimpose puranic information on the planets?
5) Again, whether planets are friendly, or enemies, or neutral - how is this ascertained and what is the basis? For example, shani (saturn) is cursed by surya (sun) to cause his foot to fall of, and so he is portrayed as a graha with a limp. I have heard that this is the reason for the animousity between them? Is this so?
6) Before shani (saturn) was born, how were the horoscopes generated?
7) Would the placement of the planets (horoscope) affect all living beings born in a particular time? If no, why?

 

[prasad1]

auhji,
Did you expect a rational answer to your rational question in an irrational thread?
All these constellation are seen (made up) from earth. They are not seen from the space. They are the snake superimposed on the rope. They are imaginary. Moreover they are 2-dimensional drawing of a child on a 4 dimensional world. Now you want us to believe it is real?
It is like seeing the cloud and imagining shapes? How can that affect humans on earth? A bunny rabbit born exactly at the same time as me will probably get an Horoscope exactly as I, but its life would be very different.
Even the Astrological planets are not real Astronomical planets.
They would cast the Horoscope of Earth?
There was a learned gentleman on this site, who argued that India can never prosper as the Independence was granted at an inauspicious time. He wanted the Indian Independence should have been based on Astrological sign.

Astrology is unscientific because of the fact of the precession or the shifting of constellations. The early astronomers were not aware of precession and therefore failed to take it into account in their system. The twelve signs of the zodiac originally corresponded with the twelve constellations of the same names. However due to precession, the constellations have shifted about in the last 2,000 years. This means that the constellation of Virgo is now in the sign of Libra, the constellation of Libra is now in the sign of Scorpio, and so on.

The horoscope is based on an exact datum: the subject’s time of birth. However why is this time taken and not the time of conception? Scientists now believe that many aspects of a child’s personality are set long before birth – so a horoscope should take into account the life before birth.

Astrology predates the modern C-section delivery methods. So the time of birth is arbitrary, set by the surgeon (not God).

“Our choices would be rendered meaningless. If the future can be foretold by gauging the movements of planets and stars, proving that we are living with only an illusion of free will, then nothing we do or fail to do would matter in the least. We would be ‘trapped’ by our ‘destiny’.”

 

[tks]

Our astrology might have been influenced by the greek system... as per this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_astrology



http://earthsky.org/space/what-is-the-zodiac



I have some doubts / queries concerning astrology.

1) The rasi is a group of constellation of stars where ancestors saw a specific pattern. How do such a pattern acquire specific powers to influence our destiny?
2) There might be even more constellations available if we were to use modern techniques. If such a thing were possible, how do we attribute characteristics to such a new one?
3) The lagnam or the ascendant, as is explained in the link I gave mentions the apparent position of the sun in alignment with the constellation. The sun really does not move. The chart is thus a basic tool that might indicate the planetary position at the time of birth. How does such an association influence our lives?
4) Moreover, how do the planets get their attributes from? Is it just an assumption or is it based on how we superimpose puranic information on the planets?
5) Again, whether planets are friendly, or enemies, or neutral - how is this ascertained and what is the basis? For example, shani (saturn) is cursed by surya (sun) to cause his foot to fall of, and so he is portrayed as a graha with a limp. I have heard that this is the reason for the animousity between them? Is this so?
6) Before shani (saturn) was born, how were the horoscopes generated?
7) Would the placement of the planets (horoscope) affect all living beings born in a particular time? If no, why?

These are "Seeming logically - illogical" or "illogically-seeming logical" questions.
The entire astrology is based on a belief that planet position reveal a person's past and a possible trajectory in life.
There is no need to feel superior challenging a belief system because the challenge itself is not rooted in the right set of questions.

Sri Ganesh65 already answered elsewhere in another post that what he is communicating are the rules by which astrological predictions are made. There was never an attempt to explain 'How' the rules work for the believers and hence all the questions of 'how' has no relevance.

For logically minded persons, it is possible to view a set of rules proposed as a set of hypothesis. The hypothesis seemingly is validated by anecdotal means over years. These rules are remembered by associations with Puranic stories.

The hypothesis is not proved with proper correlation techniques while controlling the right variables.

It may never be provable or disprovable given the number astrological rules and the number of variables that are uncontrollable in one's life.

Therefore the best thing is to consider this as a belief system that many have interest and ask relevant questions within the scope of the system.

 

[auh]

auhji,
Did you expect a rational answer to your rational question in an irrational thread?
All these constellation are seen (made up) from earth. They are not seen from the space. They are the snake superimposed on the rope. They are imaginary. Moreover they are 2-dimensional drawing of a child on a 4 dimensional world. Now you want us to believe it is real?
It is like seeing the cloud and imagining shapes? How can that affect humans on earth? A bunny rabbit born exactly at the same time as me will probably get an Horoscope exactly as I, but its life would be very different.
Even the Astrological planets are not real Astronomical planets.
They would cast the Horoscope of Earth?
There was a learned gentleman on this site, who argued that India can never prosper as the Independence was granted at an inauspicious time. He wanted the Indian Independence should have been based on Astrological sign.




Astrology predates the modern C-section delivery methods. So the time of birth is arbitrary, set by the surgeon (not God).

These are "Seeming logically - illogical" or "illogically-seeming logical" questions.
The entire astrology is based on a belief that planet position reveal a person's past and a possible trajectory in life.
There is no need to feel superior challenging a belief system because the challenge itself is not rooted in the right set of questions.

Sri Ganesh65 already answered elsewhere in another post that what he is communicating are the rules by which astrological predictions are made. There was never an attempt to explain 'How' the rules work for the believers and hence all the questions of 'how' has no relevance.

For logically minded persons, it is possible to view a set of rules proposed as a set of hypothesis. The hypothesis seemingly is validated by anecdotal means over years. These rules are remembered by associations with Puranic stories.

The hypothesis is not proved with proper correlation techniques while controlling the right variables.

It may never be provable or disprovable given the number astrological rules and the number of variables that are uncontrollable in one's life.

Therefore the best thing is to consider this as a belief system that many have interest and ask relevant questions within the scope of the system.

When an individual places trust in a belief system that changes the perception about life, destiny, hope and the other, it is wise to consider the parameters under which it operates so that we know the inclusions and exclusions.

I have seen families bounded to astrology as if their entire life depended on the vagaries that the chart has to offer... every moment of life decided by the "seemingly logical but illogical belief that planet position reveal a person's past and a possible trajectory in life".

My post is only a cautionary note to all those who might be attracted towards astrology like "vittil poochis".

Astrology maybe a set of hypotheses but nowhere close to "seemingly is validated by anecdotal means over years". It is a sweeping and unproven claim.

To consider a fantasy as a belief system and to ask questions upon which to chart one's life is the height of silliness.

 

[tks]

When an individual places trust in a belief system that changes the perception about life, destiny, hope and the other, it is wise to consider the parameters under which it operates so that we know the inclusions and exclusions.

I have seen families bounded to astrology as if their entire life depended on the vagaries that the chart has to offer... every moment of life decided by the "seemingly logical but illogical belief that planet position reveal a person's past and a possible trajectory in life".

My post is only a cautionary note to all those who might be attracted towards astrology like "vittil poochis".

Astrology maybe a set of hypotheses but nowhere close to "seemingly is validated by anecdotal means over years". It is a sweeping and unproven claim.

To consider a fantasy as a belief system and to ask questions upon which to chart one's life is the height of silliness.

Human beings have a capacity to have a belief system and they are entitled to that provided they do not cause harm to others. Everyone has several unfounded beliefs without exception. To realize that one needs to be more self aware.

People have expectations of basic respect from others for their belief system. Here some people are sharing details of a belief system that is in practice for ages.

They are not causing any harm to anyone.

'Seemingly validated by anecdotes over years' for the believers is the statement of how it is practiced today. It was said in the context to say how it is not validated by verifiable means.

Asking questions which are out of context of the topic just to exhibit a self assumed 'logically superior position' is sign of disrespect to believers. Similarly responding without reading or understanding the context is silly. That was the point of my post

 

[auh]

Human beings have a capacity to have a belief system and they are entitled to that provided they do not cause harm to others. Everyone has several unfounded beliefs without exception. To realize that one needs to be more self aware.

People have expectations of basic respect from others for their belief system. Here some people are sharing details of a belief system that is in practice for ages.

They are not causing any harm to anyone.

'Seemingly validated by anecdotes over years' for the believers is the statement of how it is practiced today. It was said in the context to say how it is not validated by verifiable means.

Asking questions which are out of context of the topic just to exhibit a self assumed 'logically superior position' is sign of disrespect to believers. Similarly responding without reading or understanding the context is silly. That was the point of my post

The amount of harm that astrology has done to individuals over the years would be countless. It just shows that you are shooting from your hips.

I repeat - the point of my post is to caution those who might be tempted to blindly believe in an unproven system. Period. If you conclude, in your opinion, that writing a post questioning the shaky premises of astrology makes me assume a superior position (logically or otherwise), it is yet again another wild claim with roots only in your thoughts.

 

[tks]

The amount of harm that astrology has done to individuals over the years would be countless. It just shows that you are shooting from your hips.

I repeat - the point of my post is to caution those who might be tempted to blindly believe in an unproven system. Period. If you conclude, in your opinion, that writing a post questioning the shaky premises of astrology makes me assume a superior position (logically or otherwise), it is yet again another wild claim with roots only in your thoughts.

I was talking about respect. I was talking about just this thread within the context of this discussion that no harm is done.
That is consideration and not shooting from the hip.

No one can stop anyone from opening a thread titled "Ill effects of beliefs in Astrology" or some such thing.

The title of this thread is "Introduction to Astrology". There is no need to do some droppings here about the ill effects of the beliefs surrounding astrology.

Besides, human beliefs are not logically arrived at.

Suppose there is a wine tasting class. I may be a non-drinker but it will be disrespectful of me to give a lecture about how drinking can become addictive. It is a question of respect. This should be easy to understand. This not a claim or wild claim.

 

[tbs]

I was talking about respect. I was talking about just this thread within the context of this discussion that no harm is done.
That is consideration and not shooting from the hip.

No one can stop anyone from opening a thread titled "Ill effects of beliefs in Astrology" or some such thing.

The title of this thread is "Introduction to Astrology". There is no need to do some droppings here about the ill effects of the beliefs surrounding astrology.

Besides, human beliefs are not logically arrived at.

Suppose there is a wine tasting class. I may be a non-drinker but it will be disrespectful of me to give a lecture about how drinking can become addictive. It is a question of respect. This should be easy to understand. This not a claim or wild claim.

hi sir,

i agreed with u sir...its purely a belief system......belief system can not be/may not be proved....

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Auh,

Inability to explain something is not an indicator that what we cannot explain is not truth. More likely, it indicates our limitations to understand certain things. Astrology is a time tested discipline and so cannot be dismissed by appealing to modern science. I have my own case and several others as testimony to the accuracy of astrology

The right approach to learning is to have an open mind and not be prejudiced.

 

[auh]

I was talking about respect. I was talking about just this thread within the context of this discussion that no harm is done.
That is consideration and not shooting from the hip.

No one can stop anyone from opening a thread titled "Ill effects of beliefs in Astrology" or some such thing.

The title of this thread is "Introduction to Astrology". There is no need to do some droppings here about the ill effects of the beliefs surrounding astrology.

Besides, human beliefs are not logically arrived at.

Suppose there is a wine tasting class. I may be a non-drinker but it will be disrespectful of me to give a lecture about how drinking can become addictive. It is a question of respect. This should be easy to understand. This not a claim or wild claim.

Let me clarify a few things:

1) You, or any others in this forum, have not directly addressed or answered any of my queries. With a broad brush, it is painted as a belief system. So my main queries are still left unaddressed.

2) There are a number of logical fallacies in your reply - first you try to paint my character as disrespectful, a point that has nothing to do with the subject on hand. Please visit this site for a full list of fallacies implicit in your post https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

3) In the alcohol bottles or spirits, most producers / distillers display a caution note regarding the quantity of safe drinking and to avoid alcohol consumption during pregnancy. Cigarette packs have a statutory warning; investment prospectus has a disclaimer. Now what I have said is somewhat similar in function. Rather than a broad and ambiguous disclaimer, I have only highlighted the totally unproven premises that make up the larger superstructure. Seems you are just whipping up dust.

4) Now it would be totally ridiculous to highlight the ill effects of cigarettes on a soft drink bottle. Wouldn't it be so? Similarly, I have to provide the anti only where it is preached. You could have followed your piece of advise by opening a separate thread on how to derail a unanswerable query by focusing on disrespect of the debater !!

I think it should be clear to all now.

 

[auh]

Dear Shri Auh,

Inability to explain something is not an indicator that what we cannot explain is not truth. More likely, it indicates our limitations to understand certain things. Astrology is a time tested discipline and so cannot be dismissed by appealing to modern science. I have my own case and several others as testimony to the accuracy of astrology

The right approach to learning is to have an open mind and not be prejudiced.

Dear Sravna,

Your last sentence is an example of a loaded statement - that my objection to astrology is due to a closed mind (and prejudiced) and that somehow those who believe are open minded.

To the other parts of your response - that it has helped you accurately cannot be taken to the overreaching claim that it is 100% true. What if somebody comes up with inaccurate readings? Such an argument is anecdotal and cannot be applied in all cases.

If there is something that nobody is able to explain, how can we make an argument that the inability to explain does not make it invalid? This is a totally convoluted statement and only shows your extreme polarization.

I hope somebody is able to answer my queries. Perhaps you can attempt?

 

[GANESH65]

deleted.

 

[GANESH65]

Dear friends
I am unable to keep updated with the forum due to some personal commitments. Will be free in a day or two Auh Sir I will try to attend your queries on return

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

Your last sentence is an example of a loaded statement - that my objection to astrology is due to a closed mind (and prejudiced) and that somehow those who believe are open minded.

To the other parts of your response - that it has helped you accurately cannot be taken to the overreaching claim that it is 100% true. What if somebody comes up with inaccurate readings? Such an argument is anecdotal and cannot be applied in all cases.

If there is something that nobody is able to explain, how can we make an argument that the inability to explain does not make it invalid? This is a totally convoluted statement and only shows your extreme polarization.

I hope somebody is able to answer my queries. Perhaps you can attempt?

Dear Auh,

Science and spirituality take two divergent approaches. The focus of science is the physical world and so it is understandable that verifiable evidence in the physical world is necessary to accept something as a scientific truth. The focus of spirituality is the mind and the soul. The effects are not directly verifiable in the physical world but on one;s mind such as experiencing of peace and happiness and practicing higher values.

The explanation or understanding the mechanics of something is what an analytical mind would do. But there is a holistic aspect to everything and those who see the big picture are more concerned about the purpose something serves than how it actually works. But I agree to convince the analytical minds one need to produce the details. I personally believe that a number of aspects of astrologically and other spiritual disciples can be explained logically but one needs to accept some basic premises just as one accepts some premises to understand scientific truths. Without that there will be no meeting point.

That is the reason I said one should have an open mind to understand spirituality. Even though I believe that this physical world is only a relative reality just as Sankara said, I believe that physical laws have their place and hence cannot be simply wished away. Similarly spiritual laws have a purpose and cannot be wished away.

I will try to take up the logical aspect of astrology sometime later but reiterate that some faith is essential.

 

[prasad1]

I think it is unfair to criticize anyone for posting opposing views.
Ganeshji himself accepted (Even welcomed) opposing views.
AUHji or myself is only warning on overdependence on a belief system, that is full of fallacies. We did not insult the practitioners or peddlers of Astrology.
This is in chit-chat section, and we have every right to post opposing views, or post warning messages for people being over dependent on a myth.

I too hold that putting too much credence on this "so called" art (definitely not the science) of astrology. I personally know of people ruined by this belief. So please do not insult us by saying it is harmless.