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Introduction to Vedic Astrology
- Thread starter GANESH65
- Start date
tks
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There is no need to clarify anything , Sri auh
You have to read what is presented before responding. I will elaborate once. I know you will of course say that your questions are never answered , like in any other such discussions in the past- so you can have the last word and claim that. But for others reading this I wanted to elaborate.
1. Your question is fully answered in my first response, I did not bring in any item remotely construed as emotion by you. If your intent is to present yourself as logical person, you must surely know that there is nothing established by 'scientific methods' that positions of planets or palm prints or numbers or anything determine one's future. If it was established the person would have gotten a Nobel Prize.
You must also know that there are no theories or models that will stand the test of scientific methods to provide explanation of purely a belief system. I do not think astrology even attempts to explain 'how' it all works, their claim is that for the believers the rules work. Period. So asking 'how' questions to a set of believers is not relevant question. You never refuted this point but jumped into the harm that beliefs such as Astrology causes. Now you claim your question was never answered. You may not like the answer that you asked a set of 'wrong questions' within the scope of astrology. You will only get answers within their belief system which you have already rejected
Item 2, 3 - Putting a caution / disclaimer is fine. But the caution is usually a reference where it is elaborated. If you had started a thread to make sure your public concern is aired and you mentioned that thread here, it will be appropriate. Just derailing a thread knowingly is a form of disrespect. We can agree to disagree. I only say this after answering your questions.
In my understanding, even Science has limitations in terms of predictability (Chaos, fundamental uncertainty in nature) . Our knowledge scriptures negate (not reject) many of the scriptures in the earlier part of the Vedas. Even if Vedic Astrology is viewed correct, it relies on interpretations by human beings with limitations and therefore have caused major harm.
It is a 'field of belief' that has been around for ages and people who believe are not swayed by any such arguments. Here someone wanted to simply explain what the rules are for laymen. I think a discussion among members here about an existing belief they already have cannot cause any new harm. If you want to save 'vittal poochis' you can elaborate that in another thread in depth.
Item 4 - You can now say that none of your questions or points have been answered which is your world view. Wish you all the best!
Sri Ganesh65 - My apologies for contributing to distraction - please continue as you see fit
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GANESH65
Active member
Hi all,
I was sort of held up due to something unavoidable and hence could not devote time to the forum and to this thread. In the mean while I notice that the thread is into active mode and feels quite happy for that. TBS sir, please don’t feel so depressed, there is no need to pull early curtains for this thread. Some of Honorable members have raised some valid points (which everyone has the right to) which we need to address with convincing replies.
Auh Sir, you raised a point that our astrology is influenced by the Greeks: and my reply is YES indeed, and don’t think anything wrong in it. Goodness in any branch and any field is acceptable and adoptable and I think Varaha Mihara has done something great by getting influenced by the Yavanas and also on the same time putting his influence on them as well. Varaha Mihira’s Brihat Jataka is not a pure Hindu work but it included contributions of Maneta (a Greek scholar) and also Satyakriti a Bhuddist. In his Brihat Samihta, he has given;
“Mlechaa hi Yavanastheshu Samyak Shastramidam Sthitham
Rishivatyedi Poojyanthe kim puna: Dwaivadid dwija:”
This means, The Yavanaas are of low origin (Not Vedic Aryans). This science was formerly established in their hands. Even they are revered like our seers. How much more would a knower of astrology who is a Dwija (twice born) deserve at our hands?
But in no way it should give an impression that our system is a copy of the Greek Astrology or totally based upon their system. In fact our system is the oldest; it is part of our Vedaanga. And there is no dispute to the fact that our Vedas are the oldest proven manuscripts in today world.
Rest of your questions are of quite advanced stage and you would have no need to raise them in case you were prepared to wait and allow this thread to reach that stage. I have been requesting our member to kindly bear with me and raise issues that are already presented in this thread for discussion so that the flow of the thread is not disturbed. I think if all of us agree, we may start a separate thread for discussion on the matters of this thread which will help to maintain the flow in this particular thread. Anyhow, since the queries are already raised and lot of discussions have done on that, I think it should be just appropriate to give my replies here itself before we move on with the subject content of this thread.
Before attempting to reply, I think I should give a brief description of the ancient Hindu Astrology, its origin and why it was necessary to practice this Science ( Prasad Sir, kindly excuse me, I would still like to refer it as nothing else but Science ) so that the points in my reply become clearer.
The ancient Hindu religion and culture were embalmed and treasured up in the Vedic literature “ on a purpose for a life beyond life. This was too comprehensive and has included four Vedas, their Brahmanas, Aranyakas and Upanishads. All of them are viewed as a single unit and a mighty volume book. Finding it considerably to be understood by common people mainly because of the difficult language, six Vedaangas were discovered. They are the (i) Kalpasutraas – to enable an easy comprehension of the elaborate and subtle technique of rituals,(ii) Shiksha – for proper pronunciation of the letters (iii) Vyakarana - the grammar part (iv) Nirukta the science of etymology to explain the meaning of words, (v) Chhandas – the science of prosody (vi) Jyotisha-Astronomy to help to regulate seasons to facilitate for Sacrifice ( Homas/Hawans)
I was sort of held up due to something unavoidable and hence could not devote time to the forum and to this thread. In the mean while I notice that the thread is into active mode and feels quite happy for that. TBS sir, please don’t feel so depressed, there is no need to pull early curtains for this thread. Some of Honorable members have raised some valid points (which everyone has the right to) which we need to address with convincing replies.
Auh Sir, you raised a point that our astrology is influenced by the Greeks: and my reply is YES indeed, and don’t think anything wrong in it. Goodness in any branch and any field is acceptable and adoptable and I think Varaha Mihara has done something great by getting influenced by the Yavanas and also on the same time putting his influence on them as well. Varaha Mihira’s Brihat Jataka is not a pure Hindu work but it included contributions of Maneta (a Greek scholar) and also Satyakriti a Bhuddist. In his Brihat Samihta, he has given;
“Mlechaa hi Yavanastheshu Samyak Shastramidam Sthitham
Rishivatyedi Poojyanthe kim puna: Dwaivadid dwija:”
This means, The Yavanaas are of low origin (Not Vedic Aryans). This science was formerly established in their hands. Even they are revered like our seers. How much more would a knower of astrology who is a Dwija (twice born) deserve at our hands?
But in no way it should give an impression that our system is a copy of the Greek Astrology or totally based upon their system. In fact our system is the oldest; it is part of our Vedaanga. And there is no dispute to the fact that our Vedas are the oldest proven manuscripts in today world.
Rest of your questions are of quite advanced stage and you would have no need to raise them in case you were prepared to wait and allow this thread to reach that stage. I have been requesting our member to kindly bear with me and raise issues that are already presented in this thread for discussion so that the flow of the thread is not disturbed. I think if all of us agree, we may start a separate thread for discussion on the matters of this thread which will help to maintain the flow in this particular thread. Anyhow, since the queries are already raised and lot of discussions have done on that, I think it should be just appropriate to give my replies here itself before we move on with the subject content of this thread.
Before attempting to reply, I think I should give a brief description of the ancient Hindu Astrology, its origin and why it was necessary to practice this Science ( Prasad Sir, kindly excuse me, I would still like to refer it as nothing else but Science ) so that the points in my reply become clearer.
The ancient Hindu religion and culture were embalmed and treasured up in the Vedic literature “ on a purpose for a life beyond life. This was too comprehensive and has included four Vedas, their Brahmanas, Aranyakas and Upanishads. All of them are viewed as a single unit and a mighty volume book. Finding it considerably to be understood by common people mainly because of the difficult language, six Vedaangas were discovered. They are the (i) Kalpasutraas – to enable an easy comprehension of the elaborate and subtle technique of rituals,(ii) Shiksha – for proper pronunciation of the letters (iii) Vyakarana - the grammar part (iv) Nirukta the science of etymology to explain the meaning of words, (v) Chhandas – the science of prosody (vi) Jyotisha-Astronomy to help to regulate seasons to facilitate for Sacrifice ( Homas/Hawans)
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GANESH65
Active member
Vedas warrants performance of specific rituals and rites only in seasons specified for them. So to perform these, the knowledge of season was essential which was only possible through knowledge of astronomy, further construction of altars etc required some acquaintance with geometry which was also included in the system and thus born the science of astronomy. We could also hear the precession of the equinoxes in Satapatha Brahmana, of the peculiar stars that are situated on the tracks of planets, in the Samhitas, and eclipses in the entire literature. These and many other considerations force us to postulate the theory that the Vedic literature represents the culmination of a great civilization and culture that were greatly swept away. Thus the Vedanga Jyotisha marks the beginning of a great epoch of the systematization of knowledge. Many Siddhantas gradually came into existence later. The differences between various Siddhantas are mainly due to the plain fact that they represent certain phases in the evolution of this science. But was fascination was the only reason behind our ancients paying so much of attention to this science or it served other purpose to them? Was it helpful for them to follow their own system of thought? In search for answers we will find that all branches of their knowledge were one goal – to promote their four stages of life i.e Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha. The last one being the most important and first three acting as subsidiary to attain the last one. It is believed that if one followed them righteously will lead to his final emancipation. So the prime purpose of the man was to aquaint him with the knowledge of the seasons and with the changes in the nature. With the help of this the religious man regulated his scheme of rituals, the traders and agriculturists regulated their business and crops respectively. Thus with this single stroke, two things – the Dharma and Artha were achieved, gradually leading them to the final Purushartha – the Moksha.
Although there is dualism with man on the one side and the stars and planets on the other, astrology comes here as a bridge to man’s relation with the stars and planets. The latter are seen to influence his life, to advise him, and to foster in him as a greater spirit of cooperation. The planets influence man in the field of aesthetics of metaphysics and of religion. Spirituality and Astrology are inter related. Like planets, Nakshtras are also have presiding deities. Hindu astrology does not treat Stars and planets as mere material objects, but as forces charged with or radiating energy from the presiding deity. The hymn of Dighatmas in Rig-Veda (1.164) is an ample proof to this theory. The first distinguishing feature of Hindu astrology is therefore, its reliance as a spiritual energy emanating from a Vedic deity. The Purusha Sukhta ( Rig veda 10.90) speaks of the Sun coming from the eye and of the Moon from the mind of the Cosmic Creater (Kala Purusha) Thus moon acts as significtor of mind and sun that of eye of the gods and to be the animating soul (surya atma jagatatstasthushas cha) of moving and unmoving universe. Even Plato, spoke of the Sun as the visible embodiment of the Supreme Reality called the God. Again the question why did Jyotisha was needed at all for following Vedic rituals? The vedic texts demands the Sacrificial fire (Homaagni) is to be kindled for the first time in the year when the sacrifices are to be performed during auspicious times. The Muhurtams are to be fixed accordingly to the positions of planets “ Vasante brahmana agnim adadhita” Brahmana has to kindle the first fire as soon as Spring begins. Proper auspicious moments are to be fixed as per astronomical calculations, and this where science of astrology plays its role. Vedic astrology was further enriched by the contributions from Parashara, Garga, Agastya etc. Parashara introduced his Hora Shastra, is an epoch-making work. Unfortunately a very little or may be a summary of it is in our possession.
Although there is dualism with man on the one side and the stars and planets on the other, astrology comes here as a bridge to man’s relation with the stars and planets. The latter are seen to influence his life, to advise him, and to foster in him as a greater spirit of cooperation. The planets influence man in the field of aesthetics of metaphysics and of religion. Spirituality and Astrology are inter related. Like planets, Nakshtras are also have presiding deities. Hindu astrology does not treat Stars and planets as mere material objects, but as forces charged with or radiating energy from the presiding deity. The hymn of Dighatmas in Rig-Veda (1.164) is an ample proof to this theory. The first distinguishing feature of Hindu astrology is therefore, its reliance as a spiritual energy emanating from a Vedic deity. The Purusha Sukhta ( Rig veda 10.90) speaks of the Sun coming from the eye and of the Moon from the mind of the Cosmic Creater (Kala Purusha) Thus moon acts as significtor of mind and sun that of eye of the gods and to be the animating soul (surya atma jagatatstasthushas cha) of moving and unmoving universe. Even Plato, spoke of the Sun as the visible embodiment of the Supreme Reality called the God. Again the question why did Jyotisha was needed at all for following Vedic rituals? The vedic texts demands the Sacrificial fire (Homaagni) is to be kindled for the first time in the year when the sacrifices are to be performed during auspicious times. The Muhurtams are to be fixed accordingly to the positions of planets “ Vasante brahmana agnim adadhita” Brahmana has to kindle the first fire as soon as Spring begins. Proper auspicious moments are to be fixed as per astronomical calculations, and this where science of astrology plays its role. Vedic astrology was further enriched by the contributions from Parashara, Garga, Agastya etc. Parashara introduced his Hora Shastra, is an epoch-making work. Unfortunately a very little or may be a summary of it is in our possession.
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GANESH65
Active member
It deals with the fundamental principles of the science, the allotment of planets to the signs of zodiac, the apportioning of degrees of exaltation and debilitation cannot be simply priori intuitions. He must have observed the configuration of the stars and planets in a particular context a certain planet must have radiated its energy in a typical manner. The degrees of difference in this radiation of energy is the basis for assigning the \houses into Swakshtera, Moolatrikona,Uchcha, Neecha, Mitraakshetra, Samakshetra, Shatrukshetra and so on. This is the first greatest contribution to astrology to the study of planets in relation to stars. And probably is the basis of development of astronomy and physics as well. Parashara Hora also deals with other characteristics of planets depending upon the level of radiation, like gender, caste, trigunas, age etc and also on effects of aspects of planets. It also implies the gravitational pull and the relativity of motion. In short Parashara could be considered as the father figure of Indian Astrology. After Parashara , Jaimini also worked on his principles and contributed further to the Science. He introduced Karaka, Karakasma, Hora, Drekkona, Arudha and Upapada lagnas to the already existing Lagna. We will discuss the contributions of Parashara and Jaimini in detail when this thread reaches that stage. Varaha Mihira, was an electic thinker, astronomer and astrologer who further systematised the so far developed system with his immense contributions. He greatly influenced the western astronomers and astrologers and also was in turn got himself influenced by them. He adopted and introduced many systems /techniques into Indian system and modernised it with latest thoughts thus making more accurate and prediction friendly and consequently becomes father of modern astrology. I know this has become a long post, but this much of intro was necessary to support my replies to Mr. Auh’s queries and now let us take them.
1) The rasi is a group of constellation of stars where ancestors saw a specific pattern. How d such a pattern acquire specific powers to influence our destiny.
Well I think you must have got your answer by reading the above intro. First of all, Rasi is not group of constellation /stars. It only contains them. Both Rasi and the constellations it contains have different characteristics and different roles to play as per rules set by our astrological system. The pattern neither acquires specific powers nor can influence our destiny. In fact destiny is pre decided based upon one’s Karmas and pattern only reveals what is in store because of those Karmas.
2) There might be even more constellations available if e were to use modern techniques. If such a thing were possible how do we attribute characteristics to such to such a new one?
Again the if we see the contributions of Varaha Mihara, one will understand that the concept and science of Astrology has been subjected to many change during his period.
There were contributions from later astrologers also. Even many researches are going on under the able guidance of astrologers of Indian Institute of astrology at New Delhi and hopefully elsewhere as well. Whenever such things are published with proof we start adopting them as well. So far the research on a 10[SUP]th[/SUP] planet (Pluto) is in quite advanced stage.
3) The Lagnam or the ascendant as is explained in the link I gave mentions the apparent position of the sun in alignment with the constellation. The sun really does not move. The chart is thus a basic tool that might indicate the planetary position at the time of birth. How does such an association influence our lives?
What we are discussing here is Vedic astrology, rules of which are specific and it should be viewed within the ambit of the same. For the sake of calculation of movement of any object you need to have one specific starting point.
1) The rasi is a group of constellation of stars where ancestors saw a specific pattern. How d such a pattern acquire specific powers to influence our destiny.
Well I think you must have got your answer by reading the above intro. First of all, Rasi is not group of constellation /stars. It only contains them. Both Rasi and the constellations it contains have different characteristics and different roles to play as per rules set by our astrological system. The pattern neither acquires specific powers nor can influence our destiny. In fact destiny is pre decided based upon one’s Karmas and pattern only reveals what is in store because of those Karmas.
2) There might be even more constellations available if e were to use modern techniques. If such a thing were possible how do we attribute characteristics to such to such a new one?
Again the if we see the contributions of Varaha Mihara, one will understand that the concept and science of Astrology has been subjected to many change during his period.
There were contributions from later astrologers also. Even many researches are going on under the able guidance of astrologers of Indian Institute of astrology at New Delhi and hopefully elsewhere as well. Whenever such things are published with proof we start adopting them as well. So far the research on a 10[SUP]th[/SUP] planet (Pluto) is in quite advanced stage.
3) The Lagnam or the ascendant as is explained in the link I gave mentions the apparent position of the sun in alignment with the constellation. The sun really does not move. The chart is thus a basic tool that might indicate the planetary position at the time of birth. How does such an association influence our lives?
What we are discussing here is Vedic astrology, rules of which are specific and it should be viewed within the ambit of the same. For the sake of calculation of movement of any object you need to have one specific starting point.
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GANESH65
Active member
Even though it is agreed that Sun does not move and all other planets move around it, the age old saints possessed enough wisdom and knowledge that earth is a moving object and all other celestial objects including Sun appears in its eastern horizon and disappears in the west because of its apparent movement. So it was quite obvious that the point observation cannot be no where other than earth. So they must have evolved a solution to capture the movement of celestial objects which appear in the eastern horizon one after another in a circular motion and called it Rasi Chakra. So a normal day starts with Sun rise and obviously the Rasi in which Sun becomes 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Rasi of the Day and keeps on changing at a pace of approximately 2 hours since the length of a day is 24 hours and number rasis are 12. At a time when an event is happened on earth, say a birth takes place, our Panchangam or astrological calculations reveals which Rasi is on the rise and that automatically becomes the Lagna of that particular time. Accordingly the movement of all planets and Nakshtras also mapped and they are placed in different Rasis to bring out the birth Chart. About influence, I have already given a brief in the intro. Since the subject is very very vast and needs a detailed study and elaboration, I would request you to wait till we reach that stage as this thread is going to discuss the influence of planets, Nakshtras, houses, its lords etc etc at later stage. The last line of above answer is also applicable to your queries at sl No. 4,5 & 7.
6) Before Shani was born, how horoscopes were generated. ?
Again the answer is already available in intro. Astrology as we practice today was introduced by Parashara and developed later by other saints. Shani who is son of Soorya must definitely have born much before that. So his services were available to the astrological system from its origin and hence such a situation does not arise. However I have not come across any scripts which gives the exact time of Shani came in to existence.
Auh Sir, hope you find these replies reasonable and satisfactory. My only request to you and other members again is kindly do not raise queries relates to advance stage at this juncture and try to catch up pace according to the subjects already posted only. In case you are really worried about any specific query kindly send it to me as PM so that it gets addressed between the two of us without disturbing the flow of the thread.
And before concluding, I owe certain answers to you also Prasad Sir. You raised a point of the horoscope of a bunny born exactly the same time as you. Let me make it a point here Sir, you cannot compare the horoscope of a human with that of an animal. Astrology also says about Karma, with which one gets the deserved “Yoni” to be born. A bunny is definitely not belongs to human race and hence would have a different destiny. Its Karma is different, aayu is also different. Yes in case you compare it with any other bunny possibly you may find that one goes to the butcher shop and the other one is adopted as a pet and leading a peaceful life. There are many other things about different yonis which we would discuss some time. You referred to C-section birth also. Well, there are many conceptions about the actual birth time of a child, some believe the time when the head of the child is out some believe the last part of the body’s appearance on earth. But according some belief the child becomes independent only at the stage when the umbilical cord is cut. So that exactly should be the time of birth. This is a widely accepted fact and being followed by many astrologers worldwide. This is also the main reason for twins having different time of birth in their horoscopes.
6) Before Shani was born, how horoscopes were generated. ?
Again the answer is already available in intro. Astrology as we practice today was introduced by Parashara and developed later by other saints. Shani who is son of Soorya must definitely have born much before that. So his services were available to the astrological system from its origin and hence such a situation does not arise. However I have not come across any scripts which gives the exact time of Shani came in to existence.
Auh Sir, hope you find these replies reasonable and satisfactory. My only request to you and other members again is kindly do not raise queries relates to advance stage at this juncture and try to catch up pace according to the subjects already posted only. In case you are really worried about any specific query kindly send it to me as PM so that it gets addressed between the two of us without disturbing the flow of the thread.
And before concluding, I owe certain answers to you also Prasad Sir. You raised a point of the horoscope of a bunny born exactly the same time as you. Let me make it a point here Sir, you cannot compare the horoscope of a human with that of an animal. Astrology also says about Karma, with which one gets the deserved “Yoni” to be born. A bunny is definitely not belongs to human race and hence would have a different destiny. Its Karma is different, aayu is also different. Yes in case you compare it with any other bunny possibly you may find that one goes to the butcher shop and the other one is adopted as a pet and leading a peaceful life. There are many other things about different yonis which we would discuss some time. You referred to C-section birth also. Well, there are many conceptions about the actual birth time of a child, some believe the time when the head of the child is out some believe the last part of the body’s appearance on earth. But according some belief the child becomes independent only at the stage when the umbilical cord is cut. So that exactly should be the time of birth. This is a widely accepted fact and being followed by many astrologers worldwide. This is also the main reason for twins having different time of birth in their horoscopes.
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renuka
Well-known member
Why is the translation not accurate?
Mleccha just means Non Vedic,Foreigner, Non Sanskrit speaking person. It does not mean Low Status.
In fact Panini's Grammar states Mleccha definition as mlechha avyaktAyAM vAchi
That is One who speaks an unclear language.
It only goes to show Mlecchas spoke a different language.
I have no idea why the translator decided to include the word Low Status in the translation which is obviously wrong!
There is no low status.
Pride and Prejudice has to go in order to seek true knowledge.
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renuka
Well-known member
Ganesh....its not your fault...I understand that the translator made it seem as if Mleccha means low born.
I am also very curious about this thread. I have seen Nadi Astrology, people predicted so many parikaram nothing happened worthwhile. This is not VIDANTAVADHAM. But truth. My Mother elder Sister (Periyamma) also did so many things. Everything is according to the karma only. Azhuthalum, Thozhuthalum orezhuttum marathe..that is the only truth. When we are born in a place that can not be changed. When we are born to a particular father and mother that can not be changed. When so many unchanging things are there from birth, how can we change all these unchange things with changing things like parikaram. This is a very logical question. "Matta Mudiayadunnu onnu irrukkum podu mattakudiyade mattrathinale Matra mudiayadungradu eppadi marum"...I did not even find a slight change doing all these. Kindly note that this is not VIDANDA VATHAM. But truth but nothing but the truth. Since Truth is eternal , I believe in this. Since I am not permanently connected to anyone in any birth except to god and godliness (if ever exists), I feel our relationship with that only is permanent and eternal.Other than that whatever we do are to our mind satisfaction only and not to soul satisfaction.
Is anyone astrologer or lawyer or doctor ever told that your case is hopeless (i.e., telling the truth if they truly know) and told I will not get any fees from you. Kindly post this this is not vidanda vadham. But it should be any eye opener to people who cheat people bothering about their own karma and doing all things and preaching about all rules and regulations and vendantha tatva to others. (KINDLY DO NOT DELETE IT OR MAKE THEM TO REALIZE THEIR MISTAKE OF SUCCESSFULLY CHEATING GULLIBLE PEOPLE IN THE NAME OF CLEVER KNOWLEDGE OF THEIRS.
Hi Doc, In Apte, you would find that the meaning ascribed by Baudhayana indicates a mleccha as an outcast or a very low man.
Shri Ganesh65,
I appreciate your taking the time to elaborate the details in answer to my queries and that shows the sincerity in your intent. Thanks.
I will however have to say that my queries are not clarified by these explanations and will state a few observations and then conclude my posts at this juncture acquiescing to your request.
a. Our current astrological system is of greco-indo origin, and hence, in accepting some of the characteristics of the planet, greek beliefs should have filtered in. This makes it a bit un-indian or non-vedic in its approach. So people who are purists of our religion should take an effort to reject a shared belief system.
b. I would agree that astronomical calculations would have been of great help to the ritualistic vedic civilization in determining the seasons, weather patterns etc. In this it is much like an observed inference of the correlation of natural happenings - sans the divinity.
c.
d. The constellation was not known to the vedic civilization until the mix of the yavana bit of astrology. So, this makes it quite obvious that the hypothesis of burden of karma, on the individual, being depicted by the rasis and their relative positions with the planets is not of vedic origin. It is similar to people claiming that numerology is of vedic origin.
e. You have mentioned that astrology is a science. Let me take the analogy of a video game that requires certain specific ways to cross a level, and by following those rules and pattern of the game, we could succeed in it. We could claim that the game is a science within itself but when taken in a practical sense, it would be just a fantasy. Astrology may have its own set of rules and calculations but without an umbrella of logic that ties it to reality, it is nothing more than an unproven belief system.
Thank you for the engagement.
I appreciate your taking the time to elaborate the details in answer to my queries and that shows the sincerity in your intent. Thanks.
I will however have to say that my queries are not clarified by these explanations and will state a few observations and then conclude my posts at this juncture acquiescing to your request.
a. Our current astrological system is of greco-indo origin, and hence, in accepting some of the characteristics of the planet, greek beliefs should have filtered in. This makes it a bit un-indian or non-vedic in its approach. So people who are purists of our religion should take an effort to reject a shared belief system.
b. I would agree that astronomical calculations would have been of great help to the ritualistic vedic civilization in determining the seasons, weather patterns etc. In this it is much like an observed inference of the correlation of natural happenings - sans the divinity.
c.
Has this been ratified by modern science? If not, they would remain as the assumptions of a particular individual only.
d. The constellation was not known to the vedic civilization until the mix of the yavana bit of astrology. So, this makes it quite obvious that the hypothesis of burden of karma, on the individual, being depicted by the rasis and their relative positions with the planets is not of vedic origin. It is similar to people claiming that numerology is of vedic origin.
e. You have mentioned that astrology is a science. Let me take the analogy of a video game that requires certain specific ways to cross a level, and by following those rules and pattern of the game, we could succeed in it. We could claim that the game is a science within itself but when taken in a practical sense, it would be just a fantasy. Astrology may have its own set of rules and calculations but without an umbrella of logic that ties it to reality, it is nothing more than an unproven belief system.
Thank you for the engagement.
Sorry to disturb this thread again, Mr. Ganesh,
But I need to request Mr. Auh a little clarification on his post.
I don't understand why you want reject the system for its Greek influence. So far as I know, ancient Greeks and Hindus shared many religious values in common. This may perhaps be one of the reasons for their influence in our Jyotish system. Do you have any suggestion to substitute the present system or you want to suggest a system without astrology? - and if it was not a shared belief system could it be acceptable? (1)
If a shared system is not acceptable, how about Allopathy a totally foreign medical system - Is that also deserved to be rejected on similar grounds? (2)
Whose onus is it to prove the credibility of Astrology? Has the Science or Scientists taken any effort to approve or disapprove the astrological conclusions/findings? In case Science cannot disapprove its credibility how can Astrology be considered not acceptable?
I think your replies to the above will bring more clarity to your point of view.
But I need to request Mr. Auh a little clarification on his post.
I don't understand why you want reject the system for its Greek influence. So far as I know, ancient Greeks and Hindus shared many religious values in common. This may perhaps be one of the reasons for their influence in our Jyotish system. Do you have any suggestion to substitute the present system or you want to suggest a system without astrology? - and if it was not a shared belief system could it be acceptable? (1)
If a shared system is not acceptable, how about Allopathy a totally foreign medical system - Is that also deserved to be rejected on similar grounds? (2)
Whose onus is it to prove the credibility of Astrology? Has the Science or Scientists taken any effort to approve or disapprove the astrological conclusions/findings? In case Science cannot disapprove its credibility how can Astrology be considered not acceptable?
I think your replies to the above will bring more clarity to your point of view.
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prasad1
Active member
I know your question was directed towards Mr. Ganesh. but he already answered that.
So the premise of the OP is not right.
Then you posted:
Whose onus is it to prove the credibility of Astrology? Has the Science or Scientists taken any effort to approve or disapprove the astrological conclusions/findings?
If one says that:
Why would science try to prove or disprove that?
This thread belongs in the Ritual section, because it is faith based.
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prasad1
Active member
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]At night, thousands of stars shine overhead. How can we ever get to know all the stars, tell one from another, or even understand their effect on our lives?
People first tried to answer these questions 6,000 years ago in the "Cradle of Civilization" — Mesopotamia. In southern Babylonia, a tribe known as the Chaldeans looked to the stars for guidance and counted their months by the phases of the Moon. When the crescent Moon appeared in the western evening sky, it signaled the beginning of a new lunar month of 29 or 30 days. In those ancient times, the first crescent Moon of summer was seen among the stars of Leo the Lion. The Chaldeans noticed the Moon appeared farther east each evening, waxing full in a different constellation each month. It passed through Virgo the Virgin, through Libra the Scales, and on through the same constellations year after year. Thousands of years later, the Greeks called the constellations the "circle of animals" or zodiakos kykios — the zodiac.
The lunar calendar, clever as it was, left the Chaldeans with a sticky problem: It gave them only 354 days in a year — about 11 days short. The purpose of their calendar was to predict the coming of seasons. They needed to know when to sow, when to reap, and when they could expect rain. But with an error of 11 days per year, their calendar would be 6 months out-of-sync with the seasons in less than 20 years. Obviously, more research was needed to complete their 365-day calendar, so the Chaldeans turned to the planets for their solution.
They called the planets bibbu, or wild goats, for the way they seemed to prance and run among the slower-moving stars. The planets visible to them — Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn — like the Moon, traveled through the zodiac. For the Chaldeans, the zodiac took on greater significance.
The Chaldeans made a major discovery while monitoring the night sky from dusk to dawn. As the morning sky brightened, they noted the lowest zodiacal constellation visible in the east. As an example, let's say it was Sagittarius. They reasoned correctly that the Sun must lie in the next constellation — Capricornus. Because the rising constellation changed during the year, the Sun must make the same journey through the zodiac as the Moon and planets.
The Chaldeans chose 12 constellations of special importance in the nighttime sky — one for each Full Moon of the year. And they defined the zodiacal path, along which the Sun, Moon, and planets travel. While searching for a more accurate calendar, they created the foundation of astrology.
http://www.sillybeliefs.com/astrology-1.html
[/FONT]
People first tried to answer these questions 6,000 years ago in the "Cradle of Civilization" — Mesopotamia. In southern Babylonia, a tribe known as the Chaldeans looked to the stars for guidance and counted their months by the phases of the Moon. When the crescent Moon appeared in the western evening sky, it signaled the beginning of a new lunar month of 29 or 30 days. In those ancient times, the first crescent Moon of summer was seen among the stars of Leo the Lion. The Chaldeans noticed the Moon appeared farther east each evening, waxing full in a different constellation each month. It passed through Virgo the Virgin, through Libra the Scales, and on through the same constellations year after year. Thousands of years later, the Greeks called the constellations the "circle of animals" or zodiakos kykios — the zodiac.
The lunar calendar, clever as it was, left the Chaldeans with a sticky problem: It gave them only 354 days in a year — about 11 days short. The purpose of their calendar was to predict the coming of seasons. They needed to know when to sow, when to reap, and when they could expect rain. But with an error of 11 days per year, their calendar would be 6 months out-of-sync with the seasons in less than 20 years. Obviously, more research was needed to complete their 365-day calendar, so the Chaldeans turned to the planets for their solution.
They called the planets bibbu, or wild goats, for the way they seemed to prance and run among the slower-moving stars. The planets visible to them — Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn — like the Moon, traveled through the zodiac. For the Chaldeans, the zodiac took on greater significance.
The Chaldeans made a major discovery while monitoring the night sky from dusk to dawn. As the morning sky brightened, they noted the lowest zodiacal constellation visible in the east. As an example, let's say it was Sagittarius. They reasoned correctly that the Sun must lie in the next constellation — Capricornus. Because the rising constellation changed during the year, the Sun must make the same journey through the zodiac as the Moon and planets.
The Chaldeans chose 12 constellations of special importance in the nighttime sky — one for each Full Moon of the year. And they defined the zodiacal path, along which the Sun, Moon, and planets travel. While searching for a more accurate calendar, they created the foundation of astrology.
http://www.sillybeliefs.com/astrology-1.html
[/FONT]
prasad1
Active member
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]For a thousand years, the Babylonian priesthood collected detailed observations of the heavens, but the true nature of the stars and planets eluded them. Eventually, each planet became identified with a god or goddess. With only slight changes, they would later be adopted into the mythology of the Greeks and Romans.
The Greeks who lived around 300 B.C.E. were the first to formalize the influences of the planets and constellations on human affairs. Most of the influences were drawn from a combination of earlier Babylonian mythology and their own. For example, because Mars was the god of war, the significance of the planet Mars concerns war, blood, and fire. It's usually a bad sign. Because Venus was the goddess of love, the planet's influence pertains to pleasure, children, luck, and wealth, making it a good sign.
The Greeks also applied the theory of magical correspondence to astrology. Because a constellation is called "the Bull," its influence on people is to make them bullish — that is, they are rather stubborn, opinionated, and unintelligent.
Astrology, then, became an odd combination of three separate disciplines: science — the observable motions of the Sun, Moon, and planets; religion — the deities of both Greek and Roman mythology; and magic — the supernatural principle of correspondence between a constellation and its influence on people.
Due to the growing popularity of scientific thought, many modern astrologers refer to their craft as the "science" of astrology. And, as we have seen, it does have a scientific element — its astronomical side. Even if we ignore astrology's religious and magical components, how scientifically valid is it? We can begin by examining the astrological signs.
http://www.sillybeliefs.com/astrology-1.html
[/FONT]
The Greeks who lived around 300 B.C.E. were the first to formalize the influences of the planets and constellations on human affairs. Most of the influences were drawn from a combination of earlier Babylonian mythology and their own. For example, because Mars was the god of war, the significance of the planet Mars concerns war, blood, and fire. It's usually a bad sign. Because Venus was the goddess of love, the planet's influence pertains to pleasure, children, luck, and wealth, making it a good sign.
The Greeks also applied the theory of magical correspondence to astrology. Because a constellation is called "the Bull," its influence on people is to make them bullish — that is, they are rather stubborn, opinionated, and unintelligent.
Astrology, then, became an odd combination of three separate disciplines: science — the observable motions of the Sun, Moon, and planets; religion — the deities of both Greek and Roman mythology; and magic — the supernatural principle of correspondence between a constellation and its influence on people.
Due to the growing popularity of scientific thought, many modern astrologers refer to their craft as the "science" of astrology. And, as we have seen, it does have a scientific element — its astronomical side. Even if we ignore astrology's religious and magical components, how scientifically valid is it? We can begin by examining the astrological signs.
http://www.sillybeliefs.com/astrology-1.html
[/FONT]
prasad1
Active member
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Twenty-two centuries ago, scientific theory was in its infancy. The Greeks believed Earth was at rest in the center of the universe. They had no knowledge of the distances to the planets, no knowledge of their orbits around the Sun, and no theory of gravity to compute their motions accurately. However, they did notice correspondences between heaven and Earth. For example, the seasons on Earth progress through cycles that follow the changing position of sunrise. The Greeks also noted a correspondence between the phases of the Moon and the rise and fall of ocean tides. With such obvious examples as guides, it was easy to believe in the existence of cosmic influences — 2,200 years ago.
Today, we are indebted to the intuition of the ancients. Not only do we believe in cosmic influences, but we've been able to identify, describe, and measure them. Modern science recognizes the force of gravity along with electromagnetic and nuclear forces. In addition, there are various forms of radiation — light, radio, and X rays to name a few. Are any of these the "magical influences" ascribed to the planets and stars?
Consider a baby at the moment of birth, the critical time in the production of a horoscope. Modern scientific theory enables us to compute not only the positions of the planets in the sky, but the intensity of all known forces and radiation absorbed by a child at birth. The results are worth investigating.
The walls of the hospital block most of the radiation from the Sun and stars. Even if they didn't, the lights in the delivery room far outshine any stellar radiation. In addition, the building exerts about 10 times more gravitational pull than all eight planets combined, 500,000 times more than the nearest star beyond the Sun. Thus the forces and radiation from space that fall on us at birth are overwhelmed by counterparts within our own environment.
http://www.sillybeliefs.com/astrology-1.html
[/FONT]
Today, we are indebted to the intuition of the ancients. Not only do we believe in cosmic influences, but we've been able to identify, describe, and measure them. Modern science recognizes the force of gravity along with electromagnetic and nuclear forces. In addition, there are various forms of radiation — light, radio, and X rays to name a few. Are any of these the "magical influences" ascribed to the planets and stars?
Consider a baby at the moment of birth, the critical time in the production of a horoscope. Modern scientific theory enables us to compute not only the positions of the planets in the sky, but the intensity of all known forces and radiation absorbed by a child at birth. The results are worth investigating.
The walls of the hospital block most of the radiation from the Sun and stars. Even if they didn't, the lights in the delivery room far outshine any stellar radiation. In addition, the building exerts about 10 times more gravitational pull than all eight planets combined, 500,000 times more than the nearest star beyond the Sun. Thus the forces and radiation from space that fall on us at birth are overwhelmed by counterparts within our own environment.
http://www.sillybeliefs.com/astrology-1.html
[/FONT]
prasad1
Active member
The bottom line
Although it's a fact that a market for astrological paraphernalia and predictions exists, a 2001 Gallup Poll revealed seven out of 10 Americans do not believe in astrology. Of course, neither the marketplace nor opinion polls can resolve the underlying issue: How well does it work? Is astrology fact or fiction?
A comprehensive study in 1979 collected predictions in astrology magazines and horoscope guides during a 5-year period. Out of a total of more than 3,000 predictions noted, only 338 — or about 11 percent — were fulfilled as published. Would you rush out and buy a car if only one out of every 10 cars made actually worked?
Probably not.
So if ever you're tempted to pick up the newspaper and read your horoscope, remember: astrology is — by every scientific and rational test — fiction.
Michael E. Bakich is an associate editor of Astronomy.
Published in "Astronomy" magazine, December 2004
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Support Science Not Superstition[/FONT]
Although it's a fact that a market for astrological paraphernalia and predictions exists, a 2001 Gallup Poll revealed seven out of 10 Americans do not believe in astrology. Of course, neither the marketplace nor opinion polls can resolve the underlying issue: How well does it work? Is astrology fact or fiction?
A comprehensive study in 1979 collected predictions in astrology magazines and horoscope guides during a 5-year period. Out of a total of more than 3,000 predictions noted, only 338 — or about 11 percent — were fulfilled as published. Would you rush out and buy a car if only one out of every 10 cars made actually worked?
Probably not.
So if ever you're tempted to pick up the newspaper and read your horoscope, remember: astrology is — by every scientific and rational test — fiction.
Michael E. Bakich is an associate editor of Astronomy.
Published in "Astronomy" magazine, December 2004
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Support Science Not Superstition[/FONT]
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It is not about me rejecting astrology... it is about the purists who think that everything has a vedic origin.
Besides, the important point is that if there is a greek influence, it must also mean a partial acceptance of their belief system, of their way of perceiving things. This would make it a pseudo-vedic religious art.
Sir, we have a peculiar mindset. We do not follow any of the rituals or customs 100% and bend them according to our needs and desires, but we like to put on a mask of a puritan.
So, rejection or acceptance in our way of life is based on convenience and not on any hard logic.
Astrology does not stop with the body as in allopathy, but it is an important guiding tool for religious and other ceremonies... and as such it has a divinity in the minds of the believers. How can a vedic pantheon include the divinity of zeus and the like...?
The burden of proof lies with the person making a claim and not with the person challenging for proof. So those who come up with the "science" of astrology have the onus on their heads to prove it within the logical realm.
I second that...
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Order
CASE NO.:
Appeal (civil) 5886 of 2002
PETITIONER:
P.M. Bhargava & Ors.
RESPONDENT:
University Grants Commission & Anr.
DATE OF JUDGMENT: 05/05/2004
BENCH:
CJI & G.P. Mathur.
JUDGMENT:
JUDGMENT
G.P. MATHUR, J.
1. The introduction of "Jyotir Vigyan", (science of astrology) as a
course of study by the University Grants Commission is subject matter of
challenge in the present appeal which has been preferred by special leave
against the judgment and order dated April 27, 2001 of High Court of
Andhra Pradesh.
2. A writ petition by way of public interest litigation was filed in the
High Court of Andhra Pradesh praying that a writ of mandamus be issued
commanding the University Grants Commission not to start and give any
funds for Graduate and Post-Graduate Courses (BSc. and M.Sc.) in Jyotir
Vigyan. The petition was preferred by Dr. P.M. Bhargava who was
founder Director of Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology, Hyderabad
and had received many awards including "Padma Bhushan" in the year 1986
for his research, work and contribution to science. The other petitioners
were Prof. K. Subash Chandra Reddy who was Head of Department of
Political Science, Osmania University, and Mrs. Chandana Chakrabarti who
is a writer and consultant. It was pleaded in the writ petition that the
University Grants Commission (for short 'the UGC') had taken a decision to
start and give grants for Graduate and Post Graduate (B.Sc. and M.Sc.)
courses in Vedic Astrology called "Jyotir Vigyan" from the year 2001
onwards in various Universities and for teaching such a course posts of one
Professor, one Reader, two Lecturers, one Library Attendant and one
Computer Operator shall be created for which a non-recurring grant of Rs.15
lakhs shall be given to the said department in the Universities. Thus the total
expenditure which will be required in starting the course in various
universities would run into several crores. The course in Vedic Astrology
cannot be termed as a course of scientific study as astrology had never been
regarded as a science. Science is defined as knowledge acquired through the
use of the scientific methods and the attributes of such knowledge include
fallibility, verifiability and repeatability. Scientific truths are not dependant
on whims and fancies of individuals. That apart science is international and
if and when differences of opinion arise, scientists all over the world work
honestly and diligently to resolve them. Astrology can not be regarded as a
science, as it lacks the above mentioned features. It has never been
supported by any scientific research or study conducted according to
stringent scientific procedure. It was further averred that the proposal to
introduce "Jyotir Vigyan" is a clear attempt on the part of the respondents to
saffronise education and of thrusting their hidden agenda of imposing Hindu
values in higher education. It was also pleaded that research in the fields of
pure science was being affected for want of funds and therefore there was no
justification in spending huge amounts on a pseudo-science called Vedic
Astrology which is a giant leap backwards.
4. The High Court after taking note of the meaning and other attributes
of Astrology held that Astrology is a subject which according to opinion of
the experts require pursuit of further studies. It was a policy decision and
while exercising power of judicial review under Article 226 of the
Constitution, the High Court would not interfere with the aforesaid policy
decision of the UGC to start a course in "Jyotir Vigyan". The High Court
was also of the opinion that the averments made in the writ petition and the
relief sought showed that the UGC had not taken any final decision in the
matter and therefore it should not interfere at this stage. The writ petition
was accordingly dismissed summarily as not maintainable.
5. Shri Shanti Bhushan, learned senior counsel for the appellants has
submitted that Vedic Astrology is not a science and cannot be introduced in
University curriculum as a scientific subject. Science is attributed with
provable knowledge than with beliefs or opinions and it is defined as a
branch of study which is concerned either with a concerned body of
demonstrated truths or with observed facts systematically classified and
more or less colligated by being brought under general laws, and which
includes trustworthy methods for discovery of new truth within its domain.
For a field to be science the knowledge must be acquired through the use of
scientific methods and should have attributes like verifiability, fallibility and
repeatability. If tested against these accepted and essential attributes of
science, Vedic Astrology will unarguably fail on most, if not all, parameters
mentioned above. Learned counsel has also submitted that the scientific
community all over India has unanimously protested against the introduction
of Vedic Astrology as a scientific stream of study in Universities. An appeal
signed by a large number of reputed members of Indian Scientific
Community and others against the decision of the respondents to start
courses of Vedic Astrology was sent to the UGC wherein the impugned
decision of UGC was termed as a giant leap backwards, undermining
whatever scientific credibility the country has so far achieved. It has also
been urged that the decision to introduce Vedic Astrology would erode and
negate Article 51A of the Constitution which entrusts a fundamental duty
upon the citizens of the country to develop a scientific temper, humanism
and spirit of enquiry and reform. The teaching of Vedic Astrology will go
diametrically against fundamental duties as enshrined in the Constitution.
Lastly, it has been urged that the attempt of the respondents to introduce
courses of Vedic Astrology in the Universities is malafide and it amounts to
saffronising education.
6. In support of his submission Shri Shanti Bhushan has referred two
passages from 68 American Jurisprudence 2d paragraphs 343-345 which
read as under:
"343. Constitutional implications of teaching creationism
and evolution: Legislation forbidding the teaching in public
schools of the Darwinian theory of evolution has been found to
constitute an impermissible state endorsement of a particular
religious viewpoint. The mandated teaching of evolution as a
major theme of science is not a violation of the Establishment
Clause since evolution is not religion. The allegedly religious
aspects of evolution theory have been ruled too insubstantial to
make its teaching an establishment clause violation, particularly
in the absence of any official policy regarding evolution.
Teaching or using books referring to evolution has been
found not to violate the free exercise rights of persons believing
in the literal truth of the Biblical story of creation, since the
mere exposure to objectionable ideas, without governmental
compulsion to affirm or deny a religious belief is insufficient to
support a free exercise complaint.
A state statute, providing that the public schools are not
required to teach either the theory of evolution or "creation
science", but that if either one is taught, the other must also be
taught, advances a religious doctrine in violation of the First
Amendment's establishment of religion clause, where state
officials charged with implementing the statute fail to identify a
clear secular purpose for it. Even though the statute's stated
purpose is to protect academic freedom, it violates the
establishment clause where the evidence shows that the statute
is primarily designed either to promote a particular religious
tenet or to prohibit the teaching of a scientific theory disfavored
by certain religious sects.
344. Wearing of religious garb by teachers : According to
some decisions, the wearing by teachers in the public schools of
clothing distinctive of some religious order is violative of a
constitutional provision forbidding the use of public money in
support of any school or institution in which any sectarian
doctrine is taught or forbidding sectarianism in public schools.
And it has been held that the prohibition of the wearing of any
sectarian costume, either by regulation or statute is valid. On
the other hand, other decisions hold that the mere wearing of
religious garb by teachers, where there is no attempt to give
instruction in religious or sectarian subjects, is not violative of
any constitutional provision, and that absent a prohibiting
statute or regulation, religious garb may be worn by teachers in
public schools.
345. Use of school as place of worship or for religious
purposes, generally
Neither Congress nor the Supreme Court has seen fit to require
a school district to open its doors to nonstudents who wish to
use school facilities for the purpose of conducting religious
activities within a school. If the intended use of school
facilities is not required or authorized by statute, there is no
constitutional right to such use where a school district has not,
by policy or practice, permitted a similar use in the past.
However, where a school district denies an organisation the use
of its facilities for a religious purpose, having permitted other
religious uses of school property in the past, the denial may be
viewed as lacking viewpoint-neutrality, and may therefore be
deemed unconstitutional.
It has been stated that the power of school authorities to
prohibit the use of a schoolhouse for religious worship is well-
recognized. Some statutes authorising or providing for the
authorization of the use of public school premises for nonschool
purposes, but not specifically permitting religious meetings or
utilizations, have been construed by the courts as providing
authority for the use of the school building as a place for
holding church or other religious meetings at times when the
school is not in session.
In most cases in which persons applying to use a public
school building during nonschooltime for the holding of church
services or some other religious meeting have contested the
legality of the school authorities refusal to permit the particular
use of the school premises, the courts have found that the
school authorities acted lawfully in refusing the application.
An agreement entered by school officials to lease a high
school auditorium during noninstructional hours to a
nondenominational student study group for the purpose of
conducting a baccalaureate service featuring religious speakers
does not violate the Establishment Clause, where :
? the school board maintains an "open forum" policy toward
all civic, private, and student groups, both religious and
nonreligious, which seek to use its facilities during
noninstructional hours;
? allowing the service to occur in the school auditorium
would not have the primary effect of advancing religion,
particularly since the school board had already formally
and publicly dissociated itself from the baccalaureate
service and refused to lend any financial support to the
sponsoring group, and faculty and board members, while
invited to attend, would not be involved in any aspect of
the service either in their official or personal capacities;
and
? the school board would have a minimal role in custodial
oversight of the service.
Under the federal Equal Access Act, a school which
provides a limited open forum by allowing noncurriculum-
related student groups to meet on school premises during
noninstructional time cannot discriminate among groups on the
basis of the content of speech. A public high school violates
the Equal Access Act by denying students permission to form a
Christian club which would meet on school premises during
noninstructional time for purposes of Bible study, where the
school's existing student groups include a number which are
noncurriculum related.
Learned counsel has also placed reliance on a decision of US
Supreme Court in Susan Epperson et al., v. State of Arkansas and the
summary of the decision as reported in 21 L Ed 2d 228 is being reproduced
below :.
"A public school biology teacher in Arkansas, faced with
the dilemma that if she used a new textbook she would
presumably teach a chapter therein on the Darwinian theory of
evolution and thus be subject to dismissal for committing a
criminal offence in violation of the Arkansas statute prohibiting
any teacher in the state schools from teaching such theory,
instituted an action in the state Chancery Court seeking a
declaration that such statute was void and enjoining the state
officials from dismissing her for violation of the statute. A
parent of children attending the public schools intervened in
support of the action. The Chancery Court held that the statute
violated the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States
Constitution, but on appeal the Supreme Court of Arkansas
reversed, sustaining the statute as an exercise of the state's
power to specify the curriculum in public schools, while
expressing no opinion on whether the statute prohibited any
explanation of the theory of evolution or merely prohibited
teaching that the theory was true. (242 Ark 922, 416 SW2d
322)
On appeal, the United States Supreme Court reversed.
In an opinion by FORTAS, J., it was held, expressing the views
of seven members of the court, that the statute was contrary to
the mandate of the First, and in violation of the Fourteenth
Amendment, as conflicting with the constitutional prohibition
of state laws respecting an establishment of religion or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
BLACK, J., concurred in the result, but expressed the
view that it was doubtful whether the case presented a
justiciable controversy, and that, assuming that it did, either the
statute should be struck down as too vague to enforce, or the
case should be remanded to the Arkansas Supreme Court for
clarification of its holding and opinion.
HARLAN, J., concurred in the result and in so much of
the court's opinion as held that the statute constituted an
"establishment of religion" forbidden to the states by the
Fourteenth Amendment, but disapproved, as obscuring the
holding, the court's extended discussion of the issues of
vagueness and freedom of speech despite its conclusion that it
was unnecessary to decide such issues.
STEWART, J., concurred in the result, expressing the
view that the statute was so vague as to be invalid under the
Fourteenth Amendment."
7. On the strength of the above mentioned authorities it has been
vehemently contended that teaching of "Jyotir Vigyan" would saffronise the
education as it is not a scientific study but something peculiar to Hindus and
associated with Hindu religion and, therefore, it will erode the concept of
secularism which is the basic feature of the Constitution.
8. A counter-affidavit on behalf of the UGC has been filed in this Court.
It is averred therein that under the University Grants Commission Act, 1956,
the UGC has been entrusted with the duty, inter alia, to recommend
measures for the improvement of university education. The decision in
relation to academic matters are arrived at collectively by the Commission,
which is a multi-member body established under Section 5 of the said Act.
The members include persons, who are teachers in universities and also
others who are experienced and knowledgeable in various other fields. The
purpose of university education is multi-directional, its object is to provide
structured instruction in all subjects of relevance and interests. In a country
like India, there are various subjects in which instructions need to be
imparted in a structured manner in view of the relevance of these subjects to
society. For example, various forms of medicines and treatments, which are
not prevalent in the western world, such as 'ayurvedic', 'unani' and 'tibia'
systems, are also parts of medical education in India. Indian wisdom, for
example, encompasses things, such as belief in rebirth and cosmic existence.
Mysteries of nature have not been fully fathomed by the human mind and
therefore it would not be proper to denounce any such belief as being utterly
unworthy of recognition. It is submitted that education and instruction
should, in a liberal and pluralistic society, must accommodate as far as
possible all points of view and provide for all sections of society. In fact a
number of National dailies and magazines carry astrological columns as a
regular feature, which are read by large number of people with interest.
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[TD="align: center"][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]JUDGEMENT INFORMATION SYSTEM[/FONT][/TD]
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Order
CASE NO.:
Appeal (civil) 5886 of 2002
PETITIONER:
P.M. Bhargava & Ors.
RESPONDENT:
University Grants Commission & Anr.
DATE OF JUDGMENT: 05/05/2004
BENCH:
CJI & G.P. Mathur.
JUDGMENT:
JUDGMENT
G.P. MATHUR, J.
1. The introduction of "Jyotir Vigyan", (science of astrology) as a
course of study by the University Grants Commission is subject matter of
challenge in the present appeal which has been preferred by special leave
against the judgment and order dated April 27, 2001 of High Court of
Andhra Pradesh.
2. A writ petition by way of public interest litigation was filed in the
High Court of Andhra Pradesh praying that a writ of mandamus be issued
commanding the University Grants Commission not to start and give any
funds for Graduate and Post-Graduate Courses (BSc. and M.Sc.) in Jyotir
Vigyan. The petition was preferred by Dr. P.M. Bhargava who was
founder Director of Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology, Hyderabad
and had received many awards including "Padma Bhushan" in the year 1986
for his research, work and contribution to science. The other petitioners
were Prof. K. Subash Chandra Reddy who was Head of Department of
Political Science, Osmania University, and Mrs. Chandana Chakrabarti who
is a writer and consultant. It was pleaded in the writ petition that the
University Grants Commission (for short 'the UGC') had taken a decision to
start and give grants for Graduate and Post Graduate (B.Sc. and M.Sc.)
courses in Vedic Astrology called "Jyotir Vigyan" from the year 2001
onwards in various Universities and for teaching such a course posts of one
Professor, one Reader, two Lecturers, one Library Attendant and one
Computer Operator shall be created for which a non-recurring grant of Rs.15
lakhs shall be given to the said department in the Universities. Thus the total
expenditure which will be required in starting the course in various
universities would run into several crores. The course in Vedic Astrology
cannot be termed as a course of scientific study as astrology had never been
regarded as a science. Science is defined as knowledge acquired through the
use of the scientific methods and the attributes of such knowledge include
fallibility, verifiability and repeatability. Scientific truths are not dependant
on whims and fancies of individuals. That apart science is international and
if and when differences of opinion arise, scientists all over the world work
honestly and diligently to resolve them. Astrology can not be regarded as a
science, as it lacks the above mentioned features. It has never been
supported by any scientific research or study conducted according to
stringent scientific procedure. It was further averred that the proposal to
introduce "Jyotir Vigyan" is a clear attempt on the part of the respondents to
saffronise education and of thrusting their hidden agenda of imposing Hindu
values in higher education. It was also pleaded that research in the fields of
pure science was being affected for want of funds and therefore there was no
justification in spending huge amounts on a pseudo-science called Vedic
Astrology which is a giant leap backwards.
4. The High Court after taking note of the meaning and other attributes
of Astrology held that Astrology is a subject which according to opinion of
the experts require pursuit of further studies. It was a policy decision and
while exercising power of judicial review under Article 226 of the
Constitution, the High Court would not interfere with the aforesaid policy
decision of the UGC to start a course in "Jyotir Vigyan". The High Court
was also of the opinion that the averments made in the writ petition and the
relief sought showed that the UGC had not taken any final decision in the
matter and therefore it should not interfere at this stage. The writ petition
was accordingly dismissed summarily as not maintainable.
5. Shri Shanti Bhushan, learned senior counsel for the appellants has
submitted that Vedic Astrology is not a science and cannot be introduced in
University curriculum as a scientific subject. Science is attributed with
provable knowledge than with beliefs or opinions and it is defined as a
branch of study which is concerned either with a concerned body of
demonstrated truths or with observed facts systematically classified and
more or less colligated by being brought under general laws, and which
includes trustworthy methods for discovery of new truth within its domain.
For a field to be science the knowledge must be acquired through the use of
scientific methods and should have attributes like verifiability, fallibility and
repeatability. If tested against these accepted and essential attributes of
science, Vedic Astrology will unarguably fail on most, if not all, parameters
mentioned above. Learned counsel has also submitted that the scientific
community all over India has unanimously protested against the introduction
of Vedic Astrology as a scientific stream of study in Universities. An appeal
signed by a large number of reputed members of Indian Scientific
Community and others against the decision of the respondents to start
courses of Vedic Astrology was sent to the UGC wherein the impugned
decision of UGC was termed as a giant leap backwards, undermining
whatever scientific credibility the country has so far achieved. It has also
been urged that the decision to introduce Vedic Astrology would erode and
negate Article 51A of the Constitution which entrusts a fundamental duty
upon the citizens of the country to develop a scientific temper, humanism
and spirit of enquiry and reform. The teaching of Vedic Astrology will go
diametrically against fundamental duties as enshrined in the Constitution.
Lastly, it has been urged that the attempt of the respondents to introduce
courses of Vedic Astrology in the Universities is malafide and it amounts to
saffronising education.
6. In support of his submission Shri Shanti Bhushan has referred two
passages from 68 American Jurisprudence 2d paragraphs 343-345 which
read as under:
"343. Constitutional implications of teaching creationism
and evolution: Legislation forbidding the teaching in public
schools of the Darwinian theory of evolution has been found to
constitute an impermissible state endorsement of a particular
religious viewpoint. The mandated teaching of evolution as a
major theme of science is not a violation of the Establishment
Clause since evolution is not religion. The allegedly religious
aspects of evolution theory have been ruled too insubstantial to
make its teaching an establishment clause violation, particularly
in the absence of any official policy regarding evolution.
Teaching or using books referring to evolution has been
found not to violate the free exercise rights of persons believing
in the literal truth of the Biblical story of creation, since the
mere exposure to objectionable ideas, without governmental
compulsion to affirm or deny a religious belief is insufficient to
support a free exercise complaint.
A state statute, providing that the public schools are not
required to teach either the theory of evolution or "creation
science", but that if either one is taught, the other must also be
taught, advances a religious doctrine in violation of the First
Amendment's establishment of religion clause, where state
officials charged with implementing the statute fail to identify a
clear secular purpose for it. Even though the statute's stated
purpose is to protect academic freedom, it violates the
establishment clause where the evidence shows that the statute
is primarily designed either to promote a particular religious
tenet or to prohibit the teaching of a scientific theory disfavored
by certain religious sects.
344. Wearing of religious garb by teachers : According to
some decisions, the wearing by teachers in the public schools of
clothing distinctive of some religious order is violative of a
constitutional provision forbidding the use of public money in
support of any school or institution in which any sectarian
doctrine is taught or forbidding sectarianism in public schools.
And it has been held that the prohibition of the wearing of any
sectarian costume, either by regulation or statute is valid. On
the other hand, other decisions hold that the mere wearing of
religious garb by teachers, where there is no attempt to give
instruction in religious or sectarian subjects, is not violative of
any constitutional provision, and that absent a prohibiting
statute or regulation, religious garb may be worn by teachers in
public schools.
345. Use of school as place of worship or for religious
purposes, generally
Neither Congress nor the Supreme Court has seen fit to require
a school district to open its doors to nonstudents who wish to
use school facilities for the purpose of conducting religious
activities within a school. If the intended use of school
facilities is not required or authorized by statute, there is no
constitutional right to such use where a school district has not,
by policy or practice, permitted a similar use in the past.
However, where a school district denies an organisation the use
of its facilities for a religious purpose, having permitted other
religious uses of school property in the past, the denial may be
viewed as lacking viewpoint-neutrality, and may therefore be
deemed unconstitutional.
It has been stated that the power of school authorities to
prohibit the use of a schoolhouse for religious worship is well-
recognized. Some statutes authorising or providing for the
authorization of the use of public school premises for nonschool
purposes, but not specifically permitting religious meetings or
utilizations, have been construed by the courts as providing
authority for the use of the school building as a place for
holding church or other religious meetings at times when the
school is not in session.
In most cases in which persons applying to use a public
school building during nonschooltime for the holding of church
services or some other religious meeting have contested the
legality of the school authorities refusal to permit the particular
use of the school premises, the courts have found that the
school authorities acted lawfully in refusing the application.
An agreement entered by school officials to lease a high
school auditorium during noninstructional hours to a
nondenominational student study group for the purpose of
conducting a baccalaureate service featuring religious speakers
does not violate the Establishment Clause, where :
? the school board maintains an "open forum" policy toward
all civic, private, and student groups, both religious and
nonreligious, which seek to use its facilities during
noninstructional hours;
? allowing the service to occur in the school auditorium
would not have the primary effect of advancing religion,
particularly since the school board had already formally
and publicly dissociated itself from the baccalaureate
service and refused to lend any financial support to the
sponsoring group, and faculty and board members, while
invited to attend, would not be involved in any aspect of
the service either in their official or personal capacities;
and
? the school board would have a minimal role in custodial
oversight of the service.
Under the federal Equal Access Act, a school which
provides a limited open forum by allowing noncurriculum-
related student groups to meet on school premises during
noninstructional time cannot discriminate among groups on the
basis of the content of speech. A public high school violates
the Equal Access Act by denying students permission to form a
Christian club which would meet on school premises during
noninstructional time for purposes of Bible study, where the
school's existing student groups include a number which are
noncurriculum related.
Learned counsel has also placed reliance on a decision of US
Supreme Court in Susan Epperson et al., v. State of Arkansas and the
summary of the decision as reported in 21 L Ed 2d 228 is being reproduced
below :.
"A public school biology teacher in Arkansas, faced with
the dilemma that if she used a new textbook she would
presumably teach a chapter therein on the Darwinian theory of
evolution and thus be subject to dismissal for committing a
criminal offence in violation of the Arkansas statute prohibiting
any teacher in the state schools from teaching such theory,
instituted an action in the state Chancery Court seeking a
declaration that such statute was void and enjoining the state
officials from dismissing her for violation of the statute. A
parent of children attending the public schools intervened in
support of the action. The Chancery Court held that the statute
violated the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States
Constitution, but on appeal the Supreme Court of Arkansas
reversed, sustaining the statute as an exercise of the state's
power to specify the curriculum in public schools, while
expressing no opinion on whether the statute prohibited any
explanation of the theory of evolution or merely prohibited
teaching that the theory was true. (242 Ark 922, 416 SW2d
322)
On appeal, the United States Supreme Court reversed.
In an opinion by FORTAS, J., it was held, expressing the views
of seven members of the court, that the statute was contrary to
the mandate of the First, and in violation of the Fourteenth
Amendment, as conflicting with the constitutional prohibition
of state laws respecting an establishment of religion or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
BLACK, J., concurred in the result, but expressed the
view that it was doubtful whether the case presented a
justiciable controversy, and that, assuming that it did, either the
statute should be struck down as too vague to enforce, or the
case should be remanded to the Arkansas Supreme Court for
clarification of its holding and opinion.
HARLAN, J., concurred in the result and in so much of
the court's opinion as held that the statute constituted an
"establishment of religion" forbidden to the states by the
Fourteenth Amendment, but disapproved, as obscuring the
holding, the court's extended discussion of the issues of
vagueness and freedom of speech despite its conclusion that it
was unnecessary to decide such issues.
STEWART, J., concurred in the result, expressing the
view that the statute was so vague as to be invalid under the
Fourteenth Amendment."
7. On the strength of the above mentioned authorities it has been
vehemently contended that teaching of "Jyotir Vigyan" would saffronise the
education as it is not a scientific study but something peculiar to Hindus and
associated with Hindu religion and, therefore, it will erode the concept of
secularism which is the basic feature of the Constitution.
8. A counter-affidavit on behalf of the UGC has been filed in this Court.
It is averred therein that under the University Grants Commission Act, 1956,
the UGC has been entrusted with the duty, inter alia, to recommend
measures for the improvement of university education. The decision in
relation to academic matters are arrived at collectively by the Commission,
which is a multi-member body established under Section 5 of the said Act.
The members include persons, who are teachers in universities and also
others who are experienced and knowledgeable in various other fields. The
purpose of university education is multi-directional, its object is to provide
structured instruction in all subjects of relevance and interests. In a country
like India, there are various subjects in which instructions need to be
imparted in a structured manner in view of the relevance of these subjects to
society. For example, various forms of medicines and treatments, which are
not prevalent in the western world, such as 'ayurvedic', 'unani' and 'tibia'
systems, are also parts of medical education in India. Indian wisdom, for
example, encompasses things, such as belief in rebirth and cosmic existence.
Mysteries of nature have not been fully fathomed by the human mind and
therefore it would not be proper to denounce any such belief as being utterly
unworthy of recognition. It is submitted that education and instruction
should, in a liberal and pluralistic society, must accommodate as far as
possible all points of view and provide for all sections of society. In fact a
number of National dailies and magazines carry astrological columns as a
regular feature, which are read by large number of people with interest.
9. The counter-affidavit of UGC also gives details regarding various
steps which were taken by the Commission before taking a final decision for
introducing 'Jyotir Vigyan' as a part of graduation, post-graduation and
Ph.D. courses and they are as under:
(i) This matter was first mooted on June 16, 2000.
(ii) On August 14, 2000, the Chairman, UGC, constituted a nine member
Expert Committee to report and recommend on the subject of opening
of 'Vedic Astrology' at the select universities. The expert committee
held its meetings and discussed the matter with different bodies and
persons.
(iii) On January 10, 2001, at its first meeting the Expert Committee
recommended opening of the departments of "Jyotir Vigyan" instead
of 'Vedic Astrology' in universities for course studies and research
leading to the award of certificate, diploma, degrees both in
undergraduate and post-graduate and Ph.D.
(iv) After the expert committee examined the matter, it placed a set of
proposed guidelines, which were adopted by the Commission on
January 25, 2001.
(v) On February 23, 2001, proposals were invited from the various
universities on the basis of these guidelines for setting up of
departments of 'Jyotir Vigyan' for providing teaching and training in
the subject leading to certificate, diploma, undergraduate, post-
graduate and Ph.D. degrees. The universities were requested to
submit their proposals as per the guidelines, latest by March 15, 2001.
The last date was later on extended to May 5, 2001.
(vi) On June 13, 2001, the second meeting of the Expert Committee
examined the proposals received from 41 universities for opening of
departments of Jyotir Vigyan to conduct the degree courses in Jyotir
Vigyan. The proposals came from 16 States of the country. The
Committee recommended that the independent departments be created
to conduct degree courses in 'Jyotir Vigyan' only in 20 out of 41
universities who had applied for it.
(vii) On June 27, 2001, the Commission at its 397th meeting, approved the
recommendations of the Expert Committee and decided that the
independent departments of 'Jyotir Vigyan' be created at 20 selected
universities to conduct the courses leading to award of B.A./B.A.
(Hons.)/M.A./Ph.D. degrees in 'Jyotir Vigyan'. The Commission also
decided that the aforesaid selected universities be allowed to frame the
required syllabus for respective B.A. and M.A. degree courses in
'Jyotir Vigyan' and while doing so, they may prefer to include among
other subjects - Astronomy, Cosmology and Mathematics etc. besides
'Jyotir Vigyan' as the main subject.
(viii) On July 21, 2001, the selected 20 universities were communicated the
decision of the Commission for opening of an independent department
of 'Jyotir Vigyan' in their universities for conducting courses leading
to award of B.A./B.A. (Hons.) M.A. and Ph.D. degrees in 'Jyotir
Vigyan'.
In pars 14 to 19 of the counter-affidavit details of the various other
courses introduced by UGC have been given which were hitherto not being
taught as conventional subjects like Functional Hindi, Functional Sanskrit,
Functional English, Tourism and Travel Management, Agro Services,
namely, Animal Farming, Forestry & Wildlife Management, Soil
Conservation & Water Management, Hill Agriculture, Non-Conventional
Energy Sources, Dryland Agriculture, Rural Handicrafts, Gemology &
Jewelry Designing, Cosmetology etc. It is also averred that UGC is
processing to introduce certain other subjects in degree courses in selected
universities like B.Sc./M.Sc. in Electronic Media, Clinical Nutrition and
Dietetics, Water harvesting and Oceanography etc.
10. Before dealing with the contentions raised it will be useful to
understand the meaning of the word 'Astrology' as given in various
dictionaries.
"The science or doctrine of stars, and formerly often used
as equivalent to astronomy, but now restricted in meaning to the
pseudo science which claims to foretell the future by studying
the supposed influence of the relative positions of the moon,
sun and stars on human affairs [Webster's New International
dictionary]
Either a science or a pseudo science, astrology the
forecasting of earthly and human events by means of observing
and interpreting the fixed stars, the sun, the moon and the
planets has exerted a sometimes extensive and a sometimes
peripheral influence in many civilizations, both ancient and
modern. As a science, astrology has been utilized to predict or
affect the destinies in individuals, groups or nations by means
of what is believed to be a correct understanding of the
influence of the planets and stars on earthly affairs. As a
pseudo science, astrology is considered to be diametrically
opposed to the findings and theories of modern Western
science.[Encyclopedia Britannica (2nd edition)]"
11. According to the above mentioned standard books Astrology is a
science which claims to foretell the future or make predictions by studying
the supposed influence of the relative positions of the moon, sun, planets and
other stars on human affairs. It, therefore, requires study of celestial bodies,
of their positions, magnitudes, motions, and distances, etc. Astronomy is a
pure science. It was studied as a subject in ancient India and India has
produced great astronomers, long before anyone in the western world
studied it as a subject. Since Astrology is partly based upon study of
movement of sun, earth, planets and other celestial bodies, it is a study of
science at least to some extent.
12. The Counter-affidavit filed on behalf of the UGC shows that the UGC
constituted a nine-member Committee which after discussion and
deliberations recommended opening of the departments of "Jyotir Vigyan"
in universities for award of degrees. The Committee has recommended to
create such courses only in 20 out of 41 universities which had applied for
the same and the degree which would be awarded will be
B.A./B.A.(Hons.)/M.A./Ph.D. The decision to start the course has been
taken by an expert body constituted by the UGC. The courts are not expert
in academic matters and it is not for them to decide as what course should be
taught in university and what should be their curriculum. This caution was
sounded in University of Mysore v. Govinda Rao AIR 1965 SC 491 wherein
Gajendragadkar,J. (as His Lordship then was) speaking for the Constitution
Bench held that it would normally be wise and safe for the courts to leave
the decisions of academic matters to experts who are more familiar with the
problems they face than the courts generally can be. In this case challenge
was made to certain appointments and the Bench held that what the High
Court should consider is whether the appointment made by the Chancellor
on the recommendation of the Board had contravened any statutory or
binding rule or ordinance, and in doing so, the High Court should show due
regard to the opinion expressed by the Board and its recommendations on
which the Chancellor has acted. This principle was reiterated in J.P.
Kulshreshtha v. Chancellor, Allahabad University 1980 (3) SCC 418
wherein it was held as under:
"While there is no absolute ban, it is a rule of prudence
that courts should hesitate to dislodge decisions of academic
bodies. But university organs, for that matter any authority in
our system are bound by the rule of law and cannot be law unto
themselves. If the Chancellor or any other authority lesser in
level decides an academic matter or an educational question, the
court keeps its hands off; but where a provision of law has to be
read and understood, it is not fair to keep the court out."
The above mentioned principle has been consistently followed by this
Court and it is not necessary to burden this judgment by giving references of
those cases.
13. The appellants do not allege breach of any statutory provision, rule or
regulation. Their complaint is that the inclusion of Jyotir Vigyan as a course
of study in the university is wrong as the accuracy or correctness of the
subject, namely Jyotir Vigyan has not been established by the scientific tests
or experiments. The precise question as to whether Jyotir Vigyan should be
included as a course of study having been considered and examined by an
Expert Body of UGC and they having recommended for including the said
course for study and award of degree in universities, it will not be proper for
this Court to interfere with the aforesaid decision specially when no
violation of any statutory provisions is demonstrated.
14. We are unable to accept the contention of the learned counsel for the
appellants that the prescription of Jyotir Vigyan as a course of study has the
effect of saffronising education or that it in any manner militates against the
concept of secularism which is part of the basic structure of the Constitution
and is essential for the governance of the country.
15. In DAV College v. State of Punjab 1971 (2) SCC 269, challenge was
made to certain provisions of Guru Nanak University Amritsar Act (Act 21
of 1969) which made a provision for study and research on the life and
teachings of Guru Nanak and their cultural and religious impact in the
context of national and world civilisations on the ground that such a
provision would propagate Sikh religion and would violate the rights of the
writ petitioners therein guaranteed under Article 30(1) of the Constitution.
Violation of Articles 14 and 19(1)(C) was also pleaded. The Constitution
Bench repelled the challenge in the context of section 4(2) of the relevant
Act which provided for study and research on the life and teachings of Guru
Nanak and it was held as under:
"Religious instruction is that which is imparted for
inculcating the tenets, the rituals, the observances, ceremonies
and modes of worship of a particular sect or denomination. To
provide for academic study of life and teaching or the
philosophy and culture of any great saint of India in relation to
or the impact on the Indian and world civilizations cannot be
considered as making provision for religious instructions."
In Santosh Kumar v. Secretary, Ministry of Human Resources (1994)
6 SCC 579 it was held that teaching of Sanskrit alone as an elective subject
can in no way be regarded as against secularism. The decision of the United
States Supreme Court cited by learned counsel for the appellants can hardly
have any application here as teaching of 'Jyotir Vigyan' can under no
circumstances be equated with teaching of any particular religion. We are,
therefore, of the opinion that the challenge made to the inclusion of Jyotir
Vigyan as a course of study on the ground that the same will violate or
impinge upon the concept of secularism enshrined in the Constitution has
therefore no merit and must be rejected.
16. A similar challenge to the inclusion of 'Jyotir Vigyan' as a course of
study was made by one Dr. K. Natarajan by filing WP no. 13540 of 2001
(Dr. K. Natarajan v. Union of India) before the Madras High Court.
Mr. Justice F.M. Ibrahim Kalifulla who heard the writ petition held that the
very purpose of imparting education is to gain knowledge and therefore
there should be every scope for making a study on very many subjects in
order to enrich ones craving for knowledge. Any such attempt from any
quarters in furtherance of that pursuit should not be stultified. The learned
Judge further held that it was for the pupil concerned to select any particular
field or subject in furtherance of his future career, and merely because the
subject has got its basis or origin traceable to some cult, it cannot be held
that the same would only result in propagation of a particular religion. On
these findings the writ petition was dismissed. We are in agreement with the
view taken by the Madras High Court.
17. For the reasons discussed above, the appeal lacks merit and hereby
dismissed with costs.
steps which were taken by the Commission before taking a final decision for
introducing 'Jyotir Vigyan' as a part of graduation, post-graduation and
Ph.D. courses and they are as under:
(i) This matter was first mooted on June 16, 2000.
(ii) On August 14, 2000, the Chairman, UGC, constituted a nine member
Expert Committee to report and recommend on the subject of opening
of 'Vedic Astrology' at the select universities. The expert committee
held its meetings and discussed the matter with different bodies and
persons.
(iii) On January 10, 2001, at its first meeting the Expert Committee
recommended opening of the departments of "Jyotir Vigyan" instead
of 'Vedic Astrology' in universities for course studies and research
leading to the award of certificate, diploma, degrees both in
undergraduate and post-graduate and Ph.D.
(iv) After the expert committee examined the matter, it placed a set of
proposed guidelines, which were adopted by the Commission on
January 25, 2001.
(v) On February 23, 2001, proposals were invited from the various
universities on the basis of these guidelines for setting up of
departments of 'Jyotir Vigyan' for providing teaching and training in
the subject leading to certificate, diploma, undergraduate, post-
graduate and Ph.D. degrees. The universities were requested to
submit their proposals as per the guidelines, latest by March 15, 2001.
The last date was later on extended to May 5, 2001.
(vi) On June 13, 2001, the second meeting of the Expert Committee
examined the proposals received from 41 universities for opening of
departments of Jyotir Vigyan to conduct the degree courses in Jyotir
Vigyan. The proposals came from 16 States of the country. The
Committee recommended that the independent departments be created
to conduct degree courses in 'Jyotir Vigyan' only in 20 out of 41
universities who had applied for it.
(vii) On June 27, 2001, the Commission at its 397th meeting, approved the
recommendations of the Expert Committee and decided that the
independent departments of 'Jyotir Vigyan' be created at 20 selected
universities to conduct the courses leading to award of B.A./B.A.
(Hons.)/M.A./Ph.D. degrees in 'Jyotir Vigyan'. The Commission also
decided that the aforesaid selected universities be allowed to frame the
required syllabus for respective B.A. and M.A. degree courses in
'Jyotir Vigyan' and while doing so, they may prefer to include among
other subjects - Astronomy, Cosmology and Mathematics etc. besides
'Jyotir Vigyan' as the main subject.
(viii) On July 21, 2001, the selected 20 universities were communicated the
decision of the Commission for opening of an independent department
of 'Jyotir Vigyan' in their universities for conducting courses leading
to award of B.A./B.A. (Hons.) M.A. and Ph.D. degrees in 'Jyotir
Vigyan'.
In pars 14 to 19 of the counter-affidavit details of the various other
courses introduced by UGC have been given which were hitherto not being
taught as conventional subjects like Functional Hindi, Functional Sanskrit,
Functional English, Tourism and Travel Management, Agro Services,
namely, Animal Farming, Forestry & Wildlife Management, Soil
Conservation & Water Management, Hill Agriculture, Non-Conventional
Energy Sources, Dryland Agriculture, Rural Handicrafts, Gemology &
Jewelry Designing, Cosmetology etc. It is also averred that UGC is
processing to introduce certain other subjects in degree courses in selected
universities like B.Sc./M.Sc. in Electronic Media, Clinical Nutrition and
Dietetics, Water harvesting and Oceanography etc.
10. Before dealing with the contentions raised it will be useful to
understand the meaning of the word 'Astrology' as given in various
dictionaries.
"The science or doctrine of stars, and formerly often used
as equivalent to astronomy, but now restricted in meaning to the
pseudo science which claims to foretell the future by studying
the supposed influence of the relative positions of the moon,
sun and stars on human affairs [Webster's New International
dictionary]
Either a science or a pseudo science, astrology the
forecasting of earthly and human events by means of observing
and interpreting the fixed stars, the sun, the moon and the
planets has exerted a sometimes extensive and a sometimes
peripheral influence in many civilizations, both ancient and
modern. As a science, astrology has been utilized to predict or
affect the destinies in individuals, groups or nations by means
of what is believed to be a correct understanding of the
influence of the planets and stars on earthly affairs. As a
pseudo science, astrology is considered to be diametrically
opposed to the findings and theories of modern Western
science.[Encyclopedia Britannica (2nd edition)]"
11. According to the above mentioned standard books Astrology is a
science which claims to foretell the future or make predictions by studying
the supposed influence of the relative positions of the moon, sun, planets and
other stars on human affairs. It, therefore, requires study of celestial bodies,
of their positions, magnitudes, motions, and distances, etc. Astronomy is a
pure science. It was studied as a subject in ancient India and India has
produced great astronomers, long before anyone in the western world
studied it as a subject. Since Astrology is partly based upon study of
movement of sun, earth, planets and other celestial bodies, it is a study of
science at least to some extent.
12. The Counter-affidavit filed on behalf of the UGC shows that the UGC
constituted a nine-member Committee which after discussion and
deliberations recommended opening of the departments of "Jyotir Vigyan"
in universities for award of degrees. The Committee has recommended to
create such courses only in 20 out of 41 universities which had applied for
the same and the degree which would be awarded will be
B.A./B.A.(Hons.)/M.A./Ph.D. The decision to start the course has been
taken by an expert body constituted by the UGC. The courts are not expert
in academic matters and it is not for them to decide as what course should be
taught in university and what should be their curriculum. This caution was
sounded in University of Mysore v. Govinda Rao AIR 1965 SC 491 wherein
Gajendragadkar,J. (as His Lordship then was) speaking for the Constitution
Bench held that it would normally be wise and safe for the courts to leave
the decisions of academic matters to experts who are more familiar with the
problems they face than the courts generally can be. In this case challenge
was made to certain appointments and the Bench held that what the High
Court should consider is whether the appointment made by the Chancellor
on the recommendation of the Board had contravened any statutory or
binding rule or ordinance, and in doing so, the High Court should show due
regard to the opinion expressed by the Board and its recommendations on
which the Chancellor has acted. This principle was reiterated in J.P.
Kulshreshtha v. Chancellor, Allahabad University 1980 (3) SCC 418
wherein it was held as under:
"While there is no absolute ban, it is a rule of prudence
that courts should hesitate to dislodge decisions of academic
bodies. But university organs, for that matter any authority in
our system are bound by the rule of law and cannot be law unto
themselves. If the Chancellor or any other authority lesser in
level decides an academic matter or an educational question, the
court keeps its hands off; but where a provision of law has to be
read and understood, it is not fair to keep the court out."
The above mentioned principle has been consistently followed by this
Court and it is not necessary to burden this judgment by giving references of
those cases.
13. The appellants do not allege breach of any statutory provision, rule or
regulation. Their complaint is that the inclusion of Jyotir Vigyan as a course
of study in the university is wrong as the accuracy or correctness of the
subject, namely Jyotir Vigyan has not been established by the scientific tests
or experiments. The precise question as to whether Jyotir Vigyan should be
included as a course of study having been considered and examined by an
Expert Body of UGC and they having recommended for including the said
course for study and award of degree in universities, it will not be proper for
this Court to interfere with the aforesaid decision specially when no
violation of any statutory provisions is demonstrated.
14. We are unable to accept the contention of the learned counsel for the
appellants that the prescription of Jyotir Vigyan as a course of study has the
effect of saffronising education or that it in any manner militates against the
concept of secularism which is part of the basic structure of the Constitution
and is essential for the governance of the country.
15. In DAV College v. State of Punjab 1971 (2) SCC 269, challenge was
made to certain provisions of Guru Nanak University Amritsar Act (Act 21
of 1969) which made a provision for study and research on the life and
teachings of Guru Nanak and their cultural and religious impact in the
context of national and world civilisations on the ground that such a
provision would propagate Sikh religion and would violate the rights of the
writ petitioners therein guaranteed under Article 30(1) of the Constitution.
Violation of Articles 14 and 19(1)(C) was also pleaded. The Constitution
Bench repelled the challenge in the context of section 4(2) of the relevant
Act which provided for study and research on the life and teachings of Guru
Nanak and it was held as under:
"Religious instruction is that which is imparted for
inculcating the tenets, the rituals, the observances, ceremonies
and modes of worship of a particular sect or denomination. To
provide for academic study of life and teaching or the
philosophy and culture of any great saint of India in relation to
or the impact on the Indian and world civilizations cannot be
considered as making provision for religious instructions."
In Santosh Kumar v. Secretary, Ministry of Human Resources (1994)
6 SCC 579 it was held that teaching of Sanskrit alone as an elective subject
can in no way be regarded as against secularism. The decision of the United
States Supreme Court cited by learned counsel for the appellants can hardly
have any application here as teaching of 'Jyotir Vigyan' can under no
circumstances be equated with teaching of any particular religion. We are,
therefore, of the opinion that the challenge made to the inclusion of Jyotir
Vigyan as a course of study on the ground that the same will violate or
impinge upon the concept of secularism enshrined in the Constitution has
therefore no merit and must be rejected.
16. A similar challenge to the inclusion of 'Jyotir Vigyan' as a course of
study was made by one Dr. K. Natarajan by filing WP no. 13540 of 2001
(Dr. K. Natarajan v. Union of India) before the Madras High Court.
Mr. Justice F.M. Ibrahim Kalifulla who heard the writ petition held that the
very purpose of imparting education is to gain knowledge and therefore
there should be every scope for making a study on very many subjects in
order to enrich ones craving for knowledge. Any such attempt from any
quarters in furtherance of that pursuit should not be stultified. The learned
Judge further held that it was for the pupil concerned to select any particular
field or subject in furtherance of his future career, and merely because the
subject has got its basis or origin traceable to some cult, it cannot be held
that the same would only result in propagation of a particular religion. On
these findings the writ petition was dismissed. We are in agreement with the
view taken by the Madras High Court.
17. For the reasons discussed above, the appeal lacks merit and hereby
dismissed with costs.
Dismissing the appeal, the Court HELD: 1. Astrology is a science, which claims to foretell the future or make predictions by studying the supposed influence of the relative positions of the moon, sun, planets and other stars on human affairs. It, therefore, requires study of celestial bodies, of their positions, magnitudes, motions, and distances, etc. Astronomy is a pure science. It was studied as a subject in ancient India and India has produced great astronomers, long before anyone in the western world studied it as a subject. Since Astrology is partly based upon the study of movement of sun, earth, planets and other celestial bodies, it is a study of science at least to some extent. [198-F-G] Webster's International Dictionary and Encyclopedia Britannica, 2nd Edn., referred to. 2. Courts are not experts in academic matters and it is not for them to decide as what course should be taught in university and what should be their curriculum. [199-B] University of Mysore v. Govinda Rao, AIR (1965) SC 491 and J.P. Kulshreshtha v. Chancellor, Allahabad University, [1980] 3 SCC 418, relied on. 3. The precise question as to whether `Jyotir Vigyan' should be included as a course of study having been considered and examined by an Expert Body of the UGC and they having recommended for incfuding the said course for study and award of degree in universities, it will not be proper for this Court to interfere with the aforesaid decision specially when no violation of any statutory provisions is demonstrated. [200-A-B] 4. It is not possible to accept the appellants' contention that the prescription of `Jyotir Vigyan' as a course of study has the effect of saffronising the education or that it in any manner militates against the concept of secularism which is a part of the basic structure of the Constitution and is essential for the governance of the country. [200-B-C] DAY College v. State of Punjab, [1971] 2 SCC 269 and Santosh Kumar v. Secretary Ministry of Human Resources, [1994] 6 SCC 579, relied on. Dr. K. Natarajan v. Union of India, (WP No. 13540 of 2001) (Mad.), approved. Susan Epperson v. State of Arkansas, 21 L Ed 2d 228, referred to. CIVIL APPELLATE JURISDICTION : Civil Appeal No. 5886 of 2002.
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