Is an analytical mind a boon or bane when it comes to devotion?

[padders]

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Hi Renuka (and other forum members):
Was away for a while, so haven't read all the posts on this interesting topic.
Renuka, I'm inclined to think like you, and also have a basic distrust of gurus and godmen and all those who purport to take me closer to the Divine. Of course, I have no problems with people who do believe in rituals/gurus and Godmen. Each one to themselves.
For me, I have to discover the Divine within myself- it's my individual journey, and my self-analysis and questioning of all rituals, scriptures etc is my way,my path. I can't change myself or my way of thinking just to please others. If someone tells me I have to do xxx thing to get salvation, I'd just turn around and say: "Says who?!!"
So, coming to the original question you raised, about whether being analytical or having blind devotion are contradictory- well, all I can say is it just depends on the individual. each one to themselves. But yes, I just can't stand people who are sanctimonious and say their way is the only way. it's like saying "My way or the highway!"

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka - Our Vedic Religion is based on the trinity of Gods - Brahma (Creator), Vishnu (Protector/Sustainer) & Shiva/Maheshwara (Destroyer) !!!! Hopefully this clarifies !!

 

[sravna]

God writes the script for all that happens in the world. Regarding the question of free will the more we are closer to God, the greater free will we have

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka (and other forum members):
Was away for a while, so haven't read all the posts on this interesting topic.
Renuka, I'm inclined to think like you, and also have a basic distrust of gurus and godmen and all those who purport to take me closer to the Divine. Of course, I have no problems with people who do believe in rituals/gurus and Godmen. Each one to themselves.
For me, I have to discover the Divine within myself- it's my individual journey, and my self-analysis and questioning of all rituals, scriptures etc is my way,my path. I can't change myself or my way of thinking just to please others. If someone tells me I have to do xxx thing to get salvation, I'd just turn around and say: "Says who?!!"
So, coming to the original question you raised, about whether being analytical or having blind devotion are contradictory- well, all I can say is it just depends on the individual. each one to themselves. But yes, I just can't stand people who are sanctimonious and say their way is the only way. it's like saying "My way or the highway!"

Dear Padders Ji,

Thanks for reply..yes I think we do think alike but to a certain extent I do not have total disbelief in anyone be it Godman or Sinner.

I feel we can learn something from everyone..in fact I used to think that Nithyananda was an idiot not to make sure his room was spy cam free! I do have a soft corner for Badboys!LOL

I agree with your reply..long time no see in Forum..keep posting..right now I am busy replying JK!

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka - Our Vedic Religion is based on the trinity of Gods - Brahma (Creator), Vishnu (Protector/Sustainer) & Shiva/Maheshwara (Destroyer) !!!! Hopefully this clarifies !!

Dear JK ji,

Maheswara is for Dissolution!

There is a lot of difference between the act of destruction and the act of dissolution.

The Hindu concept of God is not an angry senseless one who destroys and puts evil people to hell with no way out.

Even in the Avatar concept..when the Avatar comes for "Vinashaya ca Dushkrtam" He confers Liberation By Confrontation to all the Asuras He destroyes..None of them we condemned to rot in hell for eternity.

The Hindu concept of God is a a repair and restore the Adharmic person to a Dharmic person again..so technically the concept of senseless Destruction is NOT there in the Hindu religion.

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka - I am definitely not referring to senseless destruction here. All I am saying is in the cosmic world, there is a strive towards balance. if there is too much happiness, then sadness will creep in, if there is too much of sadness, happiness will creep in. if there is too much of peace in a region for a long time, a Tsunami or a Earthquake comes !!. So both good & bad co-exists & ensures the balance in the cosmic world. Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka,

Let me clarify on your impression that I am against the Atheists.

First off, it was the Atheist in question who went to themoderator complaining about my posts. I then explained why I responded back to hisearlier posts the way I did. Again noneof my posts have any name calling, or derogatory. I only said, some people arewaging a war against us Brahmins - these are by no means derogatory ordemeaning etc..

Many of the abuses by the Atheists in this forum are verybad, I have not reported any of them ever to the moderator – you can crosscheck if you want.

I believe in freedom of speech & have advocated thismany times, however when anyone abuses my/our religion, our faith, they shouldbe willing to “take back” the counter from us believers!!

Cheers,

 

[sangom]

Hi Renuka - Our Vedic Religion is based on the trinity of Gods - Brahma (Creator), Vishnu (Protector/Sustainer) & Shiva/Maheshwara (Destroyer) !!!! Hopefully this clarifies !!

Dear Shri Jaykay 767,

The word "vedic religion" is usually considered to mean the way of life as found in the rigveda, mainly, and supported/assisted by the mantras from the yajus and the saaman. Atharva was not given equal status for a long time and you will possibly find the word "trayeeveda" explained even in kamakoti.org.

Now, this vedic religion did not have a creator brahma nor a destroyer Siva; nor did it have a preserver/protector vishnu. Brahman was the sum total of a yaaga, and it also referred to the chief superintending priest of any yaaga who was required to be proficient in all the three vedas.

vishnu was only a mere 'side-kick' of the No.1 deva Indra, although, today one will find several commentaries proclaiming that vishnu was ranked even higher than Indra, even in rigveda. vishnu's few acts, as per rigveda, included going round thrice (around what is not stated clearly, but from the context, vedic scholars say that it must have been around the large settlement of the rigvedic hymn-makers; we may equate it to "aaryaavarta" at best.

siva comes out in the rigveda as a happy-go-lucky, always inebriated personage, making very loud howling sounds (hence the name 'rudra') and happily wandering all through the 'middle' region or the 'bhuvarlOka'. He, of course, harms people but is not the god of destruction in the vedic religion.

Whatever you say are the results of promotions/transfers etc., given by our scripture-writers during the period when the puraanas were composed.

Kindly try to study our scriptures systematically and in depth and much of your present beliefs will then give way to new knowledge.

Incidentally, I have also not come across any statement in our vedas or upanishads to mean that when god gives something, he takes away something else.

 

[renuka]

if there is too much happiness, then sadness will creep in, if there is too much of sadness, happiness will creep in. if there is too much of peace in a region for a long time, a Tsunami or a Earthquake comes !!. So both good & bad co-exists & ensures the balance in the cosmic world. Cheers,

Dear JK,

Going by this logic that "

if there is too much of peace in a region for a long time, a Tsunami or a Earthquake comes !!. So both good & bad co-exists & ensures the balance in the cosmic world"

So in that case when there is Atheist Vs Theist wars erupt here..why react as you wrote:

they should be willing to “take back” the counter from us believers!!

"Cosmic world ithellam sagajam appa"!LOL

 

[Jaykay767]

Dear Sangom - To clarify - I am referring to the Vedic Religion here to cover the Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Advaita etc.. Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka - LOL. I am all for heated debate, and fights !!. But you cannot expect people not to react when others hurl abuses/insults on our religion !!. I was only reacting, but never went to the moderator !!

 

[sangom]

There is no "GOD" out there other than the power (which neither modern science, nor any of the religions has rationally/analytically proved but religions have merely postulated and nurtured that belief aggressively, rather!) which gives "life" to all living things, including humans.

Analytical mind is surely an enemy of religions; religions will grandiloquently exclaim that they allow questioning, rational enquiry, etc., but all these will have to be within the four walls set by the religion itself. The same applies to hinduism also imo. For example, do we have any record/s of the Lokayatikas having been defeated in arguments just as we have about the meemaamsakas? The Lokaayatikas were physically eliminated as was done with all their reference texts.

Hence, the answer to the OP question would, in my opinion, be—

If you want to be "happy" in a superficial way, don't allow the analytical mind to grow up. Believe in all that religion says, including apparent contradictions, and make maximum benefit from "ignorance is bliss".

If you allow your analytical mind full freedom, be prepared for a stormy voyage but there is a chance, especially if you live long enough, that you will at least see the land at the other end of the ocean.

And, my gratuitous advice to every one — atheism is not correct, because man is not the ultimate power in this world, but so are the many 'gods' postulated and worshipped by the religions.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Jaykay 767,

The word "vedic religion" is usually considered to mean the way of life as found in the rigveda, mainly, and supported/assisted by the mantras from the yajus and the saaman. Atharva was not given equal status for a long time and you will possibly find the word "trayeeveda" explained even in kamakoti.org.

Now, this vedic religion did not have a creator brahma nor a destroyer Siva; nor did it have a preserver/protector vishnu. Brahman was the sum total of a yaaga, and it also referred to the chief superintending priest of any yaaga who was required to be proficient in all the three vedas.

vishnu was only a mere 'side-kick' of the No.1 deva Indra, although, today one will find several commentaries proclaiming that vishnu was ranked even higher than Indra, even in rigveda. vishnu's few acts, as per rigveda, included going round thrice (around what is not stated clearly, but from the context, vedic scholars say that it must have been around the large settlement of the rigvedic hymn-makers; we may equate it to "aaryaavarta" at best.

siva comes out in the rigveda as a happy-go-lucky, always inebriated personage, making very loud howling sounds (hence the name 'rudra') and happily wandering all through the 'middle' region or the 'bhuvarlOka'. He, of course, harms people but is not the god of destruction in the vedic religion.

Whatever you say are the results of promotions/transfers etc., given by our scripture-writers during the period when the puraanas were composed.

Kindly try to study our scriptures systematically and in depth and much of your present beliefs will then give way to new knowledge.

Incidentally, I have also not come across any statement in our vedas or upanishads to mean that when god gives something, he takes away something else.

Dear Shri Sangom,

It is all in the interpretation right? Something interpreted in one way can be interpreted in a totally different way. Great people like Sankara gave cogent interpretations of the vedas. So it is unfair to say this is what is meant by the vedas based on what they say.

 

[sravna]

There is no "GOD" out there other than the power (which neither modern science, nor any of the religions has rationally/analytically proved but religions have merely postulated and nurtured that belief aggressively, rather!) which gives "life" to all living things, including humans.

This is again your belief against the beliefs of so many people who have argued for the existence of god and of course so many who have argued against the existence of any supernatural power.

 

[Brahmanyan]

I was wondering that is an analytical mind a boon or bane when it comes to devotion to God.

Even a fairly neutral advise I was having trouble accepting it cos I felt that anything that is regimental scares me..somehow I like the freedom of thought and in other words "do as I please"!LOL

So I was thinking that does analysis of everything actually help us in life?

Its like seeing a rose and starting to analyze all about the rose and some non analytical minded person just enjoys the fragrance!

Dear Doctor,

Knowledge is a Bandha (Bondage) . It ties you up with known knowledge and regimentation, which puts an impediment in our own free thinking. When I was young, to get answers to my unending spiritual queries, I used to read a lot and listen to lectures of mahatmas and Swamis. Of course at that stage they were required. How ever, as I grew older I realised that I have to find my answers for the queries in my own way. It was what Jiddu Krishnamurthy said “I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. ... The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth.”

I understood that more and more we analise we will be confused more. Instead ,As Ramana says It is the simple discipline of silencing the mind to calmness opens up a new avenue of awareness. The same was told by Jiddu Krishnamurthy "To understand the immeasurable, the mind must be extraordinarily quiet, still.”

Interestingly Adi Sankaracharya is used to be compared to Acharya Nagarjuna of Madhyamaka school of Mahayana Buddhism.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Sangom - Did the scientific world know about time travel, ageless body & timeless mind till Einstein came with his theory of relativity ?? so until science has had a chance to discover everything or at-least a majority of things, you cannot arrive at this conclusion. Cheers,

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Renuka,

1. Analysis is just a tool that your mind possesses.

2. It is a wonderful tool.

3. You are supposed to use this tool only when the task in hand needs it. Use your tool only on need. If you keep using it 24x7 recklessly, you know what it will lead to.

4. If the situation demands just enjoying, forget the analysis and enjoy. Say you are on the beach on a holiday with your son. He runs around and picks a pebble here and a shell there and is very happy about those possessions. He wants to take them home and preserve them. Let him do that. Dont bring your analysis into the picture and tell him what Sir Isacc Newton said about beach, pebbles and shells. That will spoil the pleasure. Keep that for another day when he has grown up and needs to be humble in the moment of achievements.

So having an analytic mind is a boon but using it recklessly is a bane.

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

To directly address your question whether analytical mind is a boon or a bane , let me say that when you analyze something you send to sever the connections. It is in fact those connections that add value to those parts. The more you analyze the more you strip off such values and tend to miss the real import.

You can think of humans as beings within whom God can be identified or alternately as ones composed of particles called quarks.

 

[renuka]

4. If the situation demands just enjoying, forget the analysis and enjoy. Say you are on the beach on a holiday with your son. He runs around and picks a pebble here and a shell there and is very happy about those possessions. He wants to take them home and preserve them. Let him do that. Dont bring your analysis into the picture and tell him what Sir Isacc Newton said about beach, pebbles and shells. That will spoil the pleasure. Keep that for another day when he has grown up and needs to be humble in the moment of achievements.

Dear Vaagmi ji,

Thanks for reply..agreed with what you wrote.

I cant help remembering an incident at the beach when my son was just some 5 years old then.
He took sand and threw it the air and then stopped to hear something..then again and again he was doing this.

I told him stop throwing sand...he said "I am making music"

I was what??

He then asked me to hear the sound of the sand falling against the wind and indeed there was a very fine high pitched sound that sounded very nice and soothing...like a soft harp being played.

So you see I think we adults tend to analyse less than kids.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

To directly address your question whether analytical mind is a boon or a bane , let me say that when you analyze something you send to sever the connections. It is in fact those connections that add value to those parts. The more you analyze the more you strip off such values and tend to miss the real import.

You can think of humans as beings within whom God can be identified or alternately as ones composed of particles called quarks.

Dear Sravna,

Well may its like Lovvu!

You see when we are in Love we do not sit and analyse why we love someone..we enjoy the feeling and do not think how we got there..what will happen..and just enjoy the high feeling of Love.

So I guess life is all about the release of endorphins..some need religion to release it!LOL

 

[indianassault]

Really? I would be happy if a rational person stops , after saying I dont know. But it doesnt stop there . Rationalists assume that religious persons would quote everything from their religion.

I do not know about other religions , but age of the universe (4.3 billion years), Speed of the light , PI , Distance between sun& earth were derived milleniums ago and the current scientific community is also coming to terms with all these. I am not talking as a Hindu here or quoting from Hinduism, but from an ancient Indian point of view.

 

[krish44]

Dear Renuka,

1. Analysis is just a tool that your mind possesses.

2. It is a wonderful tool.

3. You are supposed to use this tool only when the task in hand needs it. Use your tool only on need. If you keep using it 24x7 recklessly, you know what it will lead to.

4. If the situation demands just enjoying, forget the analysis and enjoy. Say you are on the beach on a holiday with your son. He runs around and picks a pebble here and a shell there and is very happy about those possessions. He wants to take them home and preserve them. Let him do that. Dont bring your analysis into the picture and tell him what Sir Isacc Newton said about beach, pebbles and shells. That will spoil the pleasure. Keep that for another day when he has grown up and needs to be humble in the moment of achievements.

So having an analytic mind is a boon but using it recklessly is a bane.

fine.anaytic mind is a boon to be used selectively. but not to use it at all is stupidity

 

[SANDHYAV]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TeWvf-nfpA

hmm, another mindfulness!

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi ji,

Thanks for reply..agreed with what you wrote.

I cant help remembering an incident at the beach when my son was just some 5 years old then.
He took sand and threw it the air and then stopped to hear something..then again and again he was doing this.

I told him stop throwing sand...he said "I am making music"

I was what??

He then asked me to hear the sound of the sand falling against the wind and indeed there was a very fine high pitched sound that sounded very nice and soothing...like a soft harp being played.

So you see I think we adults tend to analyse less than kids.

Dear Renuka,

Was it a slip?

He discovered he can make music from the sand and the wind and he made it repeatedly. That was not analytics. That was sensing music/beauty in places where it is hidden. But to find that music high pitched (I know what is pitch, high of it and low of it etc., I place this at the high pitched variety-Renuka), like a soft harp being played (come on quickly...I want to add a tag for identification......yes harp.....I got it . It sounds like a harp-Renuka) is indeed analytics.

Kid's mind is virgin. It does not analyse, easily identifies and forgets too. It just enjoys the moment. adult mind compares, contrasts, tags, labels, treasures, trivialises etc., etc., Is it not so?

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Was it a slip?

He discovered he can make music from the sand and the wind and he made it repeatedly. That was not analytics. That was sensing music/beauty in places where it is hidden. But to find that music high pitched (I know what is pitch, high of it and low of it etc., I place this at the high pitched variety-Renuka), like a soft harp being played (come on quickly...I want to add a tag for identification......yes harp.....I got it . It sounds like a harp-Renuka) is indeed analytics.

Kid's mind is virgin. It does not analyse, easily identifies and forgets too. It just enjoys the moment. adult mind compares, contrasts, tags, labels, treasures, trivialises etc., etc., Is it not so?

Dear Vaagmi ji,

I had to describe what I heard so that those who read what I wrote would get a rough idea what is sounded like yaar.

Or may be I should have written all I heard was "Here I am..Rock you like a Hurricane" and enjoyed the music.

[video=youtube_share;OI2COawqMJQ]http://youtu.be/OI2COawqMJQ[/video]