• This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
  • Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Is life always unjust like this?

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

kunjuppu

Active member
this from today's toronto globe and mail...

Moment in time: On this date (april 30) in 1993, 19-year-old tennis star Monica Seles was stabbed in the back by a German man wielding a five-inch knife during a break at a match in Hamburg. Gunter Parche was later declared mentally unstable by a German court and served no prison time. By grounding Seles' career for 27 months of recovery, Parch achieved his twisted ambition: to clear the path to tennis supremacy for his idol, Steffi Graf. While Seles returned to win one more Grand Slam title, Graf went on to capture 11 titles, becoming one of the greatest players in tennis history.

.... is there some morality involved there. can someone take advantage of a misfortune happening in her name, and move on to glory, while the really deserved one suffers? i don't know. never could have a warm feeling for steffi since then..even though she may be innocent and pure as the freshly fallen shroud of snow..what to do?

monica seles.webp


i always have thought, the right thing for steffi, would have been to give up her career. after all, she knew very well, the only one preventing her from being #1 was monica. i know there were rumours if she had a hand in this bizare incident, and she was proved innocent. but was she innocent in the court of 'morality'? what IS our morals, to deal with such type of situations? God Bless monica in her retirement today....
 
Last edited:
Requisite Mahabharata reference. Should Arjuna have stepped down when Karna's chariot got stuck in the mud?
 
biswa said:
Requisite Mahabharata reference. Should Arjuna have stepped down when Karna's chariot got stuck in the mud?
Click to expand...

why answer a question with a question mon ami? :)

arjuna, must have stepped down, because he had morals. he always did not think that the end justifies the means. unlike krishna, i think.
 
Ok, so let me answer with a non-question. If Steffi Graf had stepped down, would there have been no other champions in the place of Seles? Would everybody else have stepped down too? So what would be achieved by Graf's retirement?
 
Though Steffi Graf herself probably did not have a hand in the incident, it was one of her fans who did that, I think Steffi should have sent a message that what he did was not right. She should have refrained from playing for a year may be, though I think inflicting retirement would have been an unduly strong reparation.
 
i know there were rumours if she had a hand in this bizare incident, and she was pr

Sir, The morale is 'Uppai thinnavan thanni kudikkanam'. Necessarily. There is no escape. [h=2]தர்மத்தின் வாழ்வுதனை சூது கவ்வும் ஆனால் தர்மமே வெல்லும்:thumb:[/h]
 
We all know how much money is earned by tennis stars! :popcorn:

'Make hay while the sun shines'.

Ms. Graf would have become old if she had waited for Ms. Monica to return! :)

BTW, all humans are not Rama to let go Ravana, when he is unarmed in the battle field! :angel:
 
kunjuppu said:
i always have thought, the right thing for steffi, would have been to give up her career. after all, she knew very well, the only one preventing her from being #1 was monica. i know there were rumours if she had a hand in this bizare incident, and she was proved innocent. but was she innocent in the court of 'morality'? what IS our morals, to deal with such type of situations? God Bless monica in her retirement today....
Click to expand...

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

According to my set of beliefs, nothing happens (in this world) which is "adharma" or immoral, though, certain things appear to be like 'immoral' to us because of our limitations. In this case Ms. Monica Seles was born with the ability to be a very capable tennis player but, because of her past karmas or actions, she was "destined" to get stabbed and then retire completely. Steffi Graf was "destined" to indirectly benefit from this. And that's all.

Even if Graf had some role in the incident, it was also fated and if her action deserves a reaction, that too shall follow just as night follows the day or vice versa. It is this superior "law of Karma" which actuates the course of individual lives, the fortunes of nations and also the way humanity progresses or otherwise. In its inexplicable labyrinthine complexities, the working of this law of karma takes care of all morality; mere humans like us are no judges to evaluate its performance.

That is why Yudhishtira is stated to have told the Yaksha Prasna:

तर्कोऽप्रतिष्ठः श्रुतयॊ विभिन्नाः
नैकोमुनिर्यस्य वचः प्रमाणम् ।
धर्मस्य तत्वं निहितं गुहायाम्
महाजनो येन गतः स पन्थाः ॥

(tarko:'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnāḥ
naikomuniryasya vacaḥ pramāṇam |
dharmasya tatvaṃ nihitaṃ guhāyām
mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ ||)

Logic is not able (to find out what is "dharma" or adharma); the vedas differ (in their view); there is no one rishi or muni whose words are accepted as the final say (in this matter); the path or principle/s of dharma are inscrutable, and the only thing to (that one can) do is to follow the path trodden by the great people (mahājanaḥ).
 
dear Mr. Kunjuppu!
I wonder what made you bring this up 20 years after it happened?
Life is a series of consequences.
We watch only part of the drama.
We never will know what preceded it and what will follow it!
So from the little little bit we see we draw conclusions.
But I am sure NOTHING EVER happens without a cause
and NOTHING EVER happens which does not obey
the Law of Karma and Dharma.
 
My guru used to tell us a story about how destiny works in our lives. One day

Yama would look at a little bird in surprise and go out on his business.

Narada would interpret the glance as a danger signal for the bird.

The bird was destined to be eaten by a snake in the cave of a far off mountain.

That is what made Yama look surprised since the bird was so far away

from its destiny and destination. Narada in an attempt to save the live of

the little bird would carry it safely and place it in the cave where the

snake was actually waiting for the bird!

If Narada's thinking can be so clouded what about our own thinking???
 
Last edited:
folks - there is nothing called unjust life !!!. All of us are here as part of the eternal journey of the soul & everyone is living his or her Karma, eventually leading to salvation. So it is not that Monica Seles lost out or Steffi Graf gained due to some silly sports match. Pl read my thread on Cosmic theory posted a month back - you will then realize that Steffi has a lot to lose by her extra ordinary success. !!
 
thank you for all your overwhelming feedback.

visa, this came up in the toronto globe and mail, which publishes some incident of interest, in the past years, on the same calendar date. i still think that steffi should have atleast stayed away for a token period of 1 year or so, as a mark of solidarity. these positions and rankings are reached after super human skill and effort, and for one guy, who did not even go to jail, for this, i think, is a mark of injustice. somewhere. to someone.

that it is monica's karma - good consolation. but not enough for me. we can attribute all misfortunes to karma, but this is a wilful act done by one german against a slav, for the overwhelming benefit of german and germany. go figure that out.
 
kunjuppu said:
thank you for all your overwhelming feedback.

visa, this came up in the toronto globe and mail, which publishes some incident of interest, in the past years, on the same calendar date. i still think that steffi should have atleast stayed away for a token period of 1 year or so, as a mark of solidarity. these positions and rankings are reached after super human skill and effort, and for one guy, who did not even go to jail, for this, i think, is a mark of injustice. somewhere. to someone.

that it is monica's karma - good consolation. but not enough for me. we can attribute all misfortunes to karma, but this is a wilful act done by one german against a slav, for the overwhelming benefit of german and germany. go figure that out.
Click to expand...

Dear Mr. Kunjuppu,
As I read your post I have already figured it out.
Germans will go to any length, breadth, height and depth for their country.
Whether it is a mad attacker or a mad dictator
they are invariably of German origin. :fear:
 
"Fairness is idea humans created, fate is random’; Fate has its own path never bothered about fairness. How many lives were cut short on that fateful night on 26/11 and 9/11 just to satisfy few fanatics’ ambition?
One could win the lottery, but that won’t cure his cancer.

Recently I saw a movie ‘Chennai orunal” although the idea is to spread ‘organ donation’, a young man’s life was cut short by events beyond his control, just to make another sick girl to survive.

In many families, the elder son is deprived of higher education because family needed his income to feed others.

One has to make the best of what you are given and make the best out of any situation.
My elder brother was stopped from doing his Degree course because my father could not afford to pay for his fees and other expenses; my elder brother took a long route of internship of 10 years in an Audit firm, and then became eligible to write C A (chartered accountant Exam) and came out with flying colors getting Gold Medal in one subject.
He could not go to Delhi to receive the medal from President of India, and requested the authorities to send it by post.

He became very famous Chartered Accountant in Chennai, and his clients included Ramnath Goenka of India Express!!
 
Last edited:
P.J.

there is one difference in the victims of 9/11 or 11/26. these were random victims of wilful terrorist attack to kill. but the killers did not target the victims with the intention of bettering other beneficiaries, ie knowing the victims and the beneficiaries by person. it was random. at large.

whereas in the case of monica seles, she reached the #1 spot by dint of genius, hard work and good fortune. the guy who maimed, did it so, with the intention of maiming her so that his favourite steffi graf would benefit. this was a deleberate action to destroy one specific, for the benefit of another specific. close to 1st degree murder.

just imagine the american reaction if jimmy connors or andre agazi were maimed so that the immediate lower ranking non american gets a leg up, and the maiming is done by the person of the same nationality.

or heaven forbid, and it never happens: if viswanathan anand is hurt by a pakistani guy so that (imagine) the #2 ranking chess player in the world is a pakistani and now he coasts to become world #1. will we be shake our heads wisely, and murmur that it was anand's fate and walk away?

add insult to the injury, the german court let the culprit walk free. because he was judged 'insane'.
 
I personally thought that the (involuntary) grunting/shrieking that Seles did at each and every shot gave her an unfair advantage. Not only was Graf distracted by that, it made for very poor viewing of a tennis match.

I think there was one match when some opponent (not Graf) protested and the umpire made Seles suppress her shriek. AFAIK, Seles did lose that match.
 
Dear friend Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

After a long reflection on your initial post, I am posting this, just my pov.

In my opinion, this world is screwed up because of many folks believing in something called 'Social Justice'. This ideology roughly translates to 'past inequities should be redressed in the current times', because now we have a democratic outlet that protect minority interests to demand for such claims.

Our community, in my opinion, is a victim of such thought. There are laws against discrimination in place, many folks from the community are caught up in the official quota scheme (I disagree with Sri Nacchinarkiniyan ji, who argued against this elsewhere in this Forum), just because of this ideology.

You look around any part of the world, including our own, you see that some folks can not let go of the past, within certain thresholds. And this create new problems.

So, when a Jew wants a homeland to be secure after what happened, I understand. When a black wants to have equal opportunity to succeed in USA, I understand. When an aboriginie, In Australia demands the same, I more than understand, equal to the majority of the South African citizens.

But, I do not understand your example. Why should Steffi Graff be denied of her efforts and accomplishments, just because a deranged 'fan' stabbed her opponent? Unless it is shown that she was part of that act, how is she culpable? Why should she withdraw? I think that the concept of Social Justice is at play here, because nothing else explains it.

Nothing in this world is 'fair', starting from the circumstances of one's birth. The only thing that is 'fair' is to try the game of life a level field for EVERYONE to play in a equitable way. And, in my opinion, that competitive field should start in College.

So, what about Monica Seles? She is nothing more or less than that IBM executive, who was slated to become the CEO of IBM, because he made the PC division of IBM so profitable, but then perished in an American Airlines flight crash over the Dallas Fort Worth International airport, some 30 years ago. He left a young widow and family.

Such is life. And it it is cruel - not unjust.

Regards,
KRS
 
Visalakshi Ramani said:
Dear Mr. Kunjuppu,
As I read your post I have already figured it out.
Germans will go to any length, breadth, height and depth for their country.
Whether it is a mad attacker or a mad dictator
they are invariably of German origin. :fear:
Click to expand...

Does all of these mean that all of you are convinced that declaration of Mr. Parch by the German Court as a mentally unstable person is a *farce*? If so, what are the grounds for such an opinion or belief other than one's own prejudices?

If Mr Parch was indeed a mentally unstable person, since when have we begun to draw *morality* or *moral lessons* from acts of insanity?
 
Well dear sir!
Was the act of the genocide enacted by a German dictator
insane, immoral or illegal or a combination of all the three???
Insane people should not be allowed to posses arms,
or assume any important office or
even go near people who reperesent
some race or country in an important event.
 
Dear Srimathi VRS Madam,

You said:
As I read your post I have already figured it out.
Germans will go to any length, breadth, height and depth for their country.
Whether it is a mad attacker or a mad dictator
they are invariably of German origin.
Click to expand...

All Germans don't act this way. The German culture, as far as I know, does not support this act. I often wondered what I would have done, living under the monstrosity of Hitler's regime, which swept up the entire country under it's iron grip. I always have doubts about my own bravery to be able to stand up to such a regime.

Actually, I feel sorry for them. They are forced to live with the guilt and shame, just because of weird confluence of world events that produced a mad man to become their dictator. I feel the same way about the Japanese.

Yes, the cultures were the reasons for the happenings, but cultures don't happen in vacuum. They happen because of the circumstances of a people, that go back to their roots. In the development of the modern, they change, either for good or bad - we can see it in our own TB culture, undergoing tremendous changes today.

Regards,
KRS
 
Even today (Just for information), Germans and Japanese are much more nationalistic than the average American. In Germany the company cars of all companies, is a German makes (by name). They would not even consider a Ford built in Germany as German. I have seen similar sentiment in Japan. This might have been the left over from pre-world war days.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Share this page

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest ads

Follow us on Social Media

Back
Top