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Is there a universal morality?

No, there is no such thing as universal morality, and it is somewhat surprising that people are still asking this question in the 21st century. Then again, that doesn’t mean that anything goes, a la moral relativism. Of course, much depends on what one means by “universal,” so let’s try to parse things out a bit.

To begin with, if by “universal” we mean that morality is like the laws of physics, or like mathematical theorems, or perhaps like the laws of logic, then forget it. Setting aside interesting discussions on the nature of mathematics and logic and whether even their tenets are truly universal or not, morality isn’t even in the ballpark.

“Morality” comes from the Latin moralis, the word used by Cicero to translate the Greek êthos. The Latin word refers more properly to the habits and customs of a people, while the Greek one is related to the idea of character. So “morality” is concerned with people’s characters and how we interact with each other in society.


Socrates, the Stoics, the Epicureans, the Cynics, and a number of other Greco-Roman schools agreed on one thing: human beings are a particular type of animal, and that particularity lies chiefly in two aspects of what it means to be human: we are highly social, and we are capable of reason.

The first bit means that we are all deeply interdependent on other people. Despite the fashionable nonsense, especially in the United States, about “self-made men” (they are usually men), there actually is no such thing. Without social bonds and support our lives would be, as Thomas Hobbes famously put it, poor, nasty, brutish, and short. The second bit, the one about intelligence, does not mean that we always, or even often, act rationally. Only that we have the capability to do so. Ethics, then, especially (but not only) for the Stoics becomes a matter of “living according to nature,” meaning not to endorse whatever is natural (that’s an elementary logical fallacy), but rather to take seriously the two pillars of human nature: sociality and reason. As Marcus Aurelius put it, “Do what is necessary, and whatever the reason of a social animal naturally requires, and as it requires.” (Meditations, IV.24)

There is something, of course, the ancients did get wrong: they, especially Aristotle, thought that human nature was the result of a teleological process, that everything has a proper function, determined by the very nature of the cosmos. We don’t believe that anymore, not after Copernicus and especially Darwin. But we do know that human beings are indeed a particular product of complex and ongoing evolutionary processes. These processes do not determine a human essence, but they do shape a statistical cluster of characters that define what it means to be human. That cluster, in turn, constrains — without determining — what sort of behaviors are pro-social and lead to human flourishing, and what sort of behaviors don’t. And ethics is the empirically informed philosophical enterprise that attempts to understand and articulate that distinction.


Universe operates on a set of dharma (laws as I view it) and rta (cycles/repetitions as I view it).

For eg. Love/Bonding and Hate/Repulsion is facilitated by Electromagnetic interaction in matter forms and hormones in biological beings. These facilitate divergence/diversity and convergence/unity in diversity, which furthers the evolutionary progress (which is what is mAyA in my view). These are examples of laws/dharma.

Same way birth/creation, growth/movement and death/dissolution are examples of rta/cycles in matter forms and biological beings that help these forms spread across space and evolve further.

Biological beings (those with consciousness/life), even from very primitive beings, adapt around these laws/dharma and cycles/rta of the Universe and evolve. In that process they evolve their own adaptation to dharma/rta and pass it on through the evolutionary chain of mAyA to higher order beings.

Human beings at the top of this consciousness chain have thus evolved their adaptation to dharma/rta, spawning over millions of years (though their current form may be just tens of thousands of years) creating their own social laws as they group together and evolve, like any higher order matter form or being.

But societies themselves are made of diverse forms of consciousness thus needing adaptation of one another to not just natural dharma/rta, but to the societies themselves. Every society is a Universe of its own, thus facilitating different forms of adaptation. These adaptations produce a continuous churn in the societies.

Ethics/Morality is the cream/butter produced out of this churn. They are the 'result' or 'indications' of the churn that's happening below caused due to adaptation to local as well as universal dharma/rta. These adaptations produce a churn which produces the cream. Hence ethics/morality keeps changing faster than the adaptation to local/universal dharma/rta itself. Hence they are neither the Universal dharma/rta nor the local dharma/rta.

What's ethical/moral few decades back will not be ethical/moral now and vice-versa also. Few decades back it's largely ethical/moral to police a woman for the way she dresses. Now it's largely no longer so. It was ethical/moral to look at woman primarily as a 'mother' few decades back. Now the ethics/morality tends to more look at her as another human being and not put extra social pressures. There are millions of examples like this.

Not that society has changed that much in between. But the churn that different people produce due to their local adaptation has changed the way ethics/moral is defined.

We often mistake this cream/butter ethics/morality as the underlying dharma/rta or their adaptation itself.

This is my understanding, as of now.
 
The problem with science is it confuses higher principles as an effect of lower principles. It is doing a great ulta.
 
In my view it is right to say that love causing hormones are manifestation of a higher love energy. So it is wrong to say hormones cause love. I have evidence to back this up. That is, the greater reality is the spiritual reality. So the line of reasoning advanced by science that physical body is the basis of our thoughts, emotions etc etc is very fundamentally flawed. Scientists have to bite the bullet by modifying their cherished notions about reality. Otherwise I see science getting stalled or caught up in contradictions or forsaken in favor of brute data driven technology which is bound to falter sooner or later.
 
In my view it is right to say that love causing hormones are manifestation of a higher love energy. So it is wrong to say hormones cause love. I have evidence to back this up. That is, the greater reality is the spiritual reality. So the line of reasoning advanced by science that physical body is the basis of our thoughts, emotions etc etc is very fundamentally flawed. Scientists have to bite the bullet by modifying their cherished notions about reality. Otherwise I see science getting stalled or caught up in contradictions or forsaken in favor of brute data driven technology which is bound to falter sooner or later.
The Bhagavad Gita has the answer

2:62
dhyāyato viṣhayān puṁsaḥ saṅgas teṣhūpajāyate
saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ kāmāt krodho ’bhijāyate


While contemplating on the objects of the senses, one develops attachment to them. Attachment leads to desire, and from desire arises anger.



So everything starts when we contemplate on something.
We see what we want to see, we hear what we want to hear and we feel what we want to feel.

The senses then just are instruments to carry out our
desires.
 
For heaven's sake let us not reduce something as beautiful and amazing as human self to something mechanical and only physical. In reality the physical body itself has truly amazing capabilities but very grossly underestimated and grossly misunderstood and maltreated by science.
 
In my view it is right to say that love causing hormones are manifestation of a higher love energy. So it is wrong to say hormones cause love. I have evidence to back this up. That is, the greater reality is the spiritual reality. So the line of reasoning advanced by science that physical body is the basis of our thoughts, emotions etc etc is very fundamentally flawed. Scientists have to bite the bullet by modifying their cherished notions about reality. Otherwise I see science getting stalled or caught up in contradictions or forsaken in favor of brute data driven technology which is bound to falter sooner or later.

True. I look at it this way.

Hormones are the 'vehicle' that drives love and hate in biological beings. Electromagnetic attraction is the vehicle for the attraction and repulsion in matter forms. But what drives hormones and EM interaction..?

Universe is not run by 'magic'. Everything in the Universe is based on dharma (laws) and rta (cycles of repetition). Hormones or EM interactions are some examples of vehicles of this dharma and rta.

Knowledge of vehicle, be it hormones or EM interaction helps us to build better lives. We can manipulate hormones to treat symptoms. We can manipulate EM interaction to build electricity, computing, gadgets etc.

But vehicles are different from drivers of the vehicle.

There is a 'self' not just in human beings. Every atom has a self. When atoms combine to form compounds that compound acquires a different combined self. A certain combination of matter forms is able to limited self-drive and their interactions build biological cells. Every biological cell that does metabolism has enhanced, but yet limited self-drive. When several cells work together and form organs or whole beings, that combined form has a combined, further enhanced, yet limited 'self-drive'.

Our combined self-drive is not in our brain; not in our logical thoughts. It's distributed all through our physical organ including heart, gut, lungs, liver, kidney etc, even limbs. When we have a deficiency in an organ or lose a limb, the combined self-drive re-orients itself for the new disabilities and abilities it has to develop. When it cannot re-orient itself (due to loss of activity of organ), that combined 'self-drive' gets destroyed or the 'life' gets lost.

With our limited self-drive capability (though enhanced than other beings in the planet), our self cannot claim to be an independent driver.

Science is about extending our limitations of knowledge, which is a never ending process. 'finites' will become larger and larger, but can't claim to be 'infinite' ever.

Again all this is my understanding.
 
True. I look at it this way.

Hormones are the 'vehicle' that drives love and hate in biological beings. Electromagnetic attraction is the vehicle for the attraction and repulsion in matter forms. But what drives hormones and EM interaction..?

Universe is not run by 'magic'. Everything in the Universe is based on dharma (laws) and rta (cycles of repetition). Hormones or EM interactions are some examples of vehicles of this dharma and rta.

Knowledge of vehicle, be it hormones or EM interaction helps us to build better lives. We can manipulate hormones to treat symptoms. We can manipulate EM interaction to build electricity, computing, gadgets etc.

But vehicles are different from drivers of the vehicle.

There is a 'self' not just in human beings. Every atom has a self. When atoms combine to form compounds that compound acquires a different combined self. A certain combination of matter forms is able to limited self-drive and their interactions build biological cells. Every biological cell that does metabolism has enhanced, but yet limited self-drive. When several cells work together and form organs or whole beings, that combined form has a combined, further enhanced, yet limited 'self-drive'.

Our combined self-drive is not in our brain; not in our logical thoughts. It's distributed all through our physical organ including heart, gut, lungs, liver, kidney etc, even limbs. When we have a deficiency in an organ or lose a limb, the combined self-drive re-orients itself for the new disabilities and abilities it has to develop. When it cannot re-orient itself (due to loss of activity of organ), that combined 'self-drive' gets destroyed or the 'life' gets lost.

With our limited self-drive capability (though enhanced than other beings in the planet), our self cannot claim to be an independent driver.

Science is about extending our limitations of knowledge, which is a never ending process. 'finites' will become larger and larger, but can't claim to be 'infinite' ever.

Again all this is my understanding.
Yes Sir. My point is we should not erroneously think that the approach of science is the only right approach. That really is the problem. Let us give other approaches such as those of spirituality also a chance and not dismiss or degrade it. Otherwise I really have no issues with science. When science becomes more embracing and catholic it will really benefit.
 
The ego of the scientists are really so bloated especially those of a particular nation. They need to accept that others also have the capability to think.
 
The ego of the scientists are really so bloated especially those of a particular nation. They need to accept that others also have the capability to think.
Sravna,
I wonder why you keep harping on blaming scientists.

We have to understand that they are merely doing their job.

Some of them could be very spiritual individuals too but when we function in an evidence based scenario we have to follow certain rules too.
 
Sravna,
I wonder why you keep harping on blaming scientists.

We have to understand that they are merely doing their job.

Some of them could be very spiritual individuals too but when we function in an evidence based scenario we have to follow certain rules too.
I will tell you why. Not only you but the whole world. Till then kindly be patient.
 
The problem with science is it confuses higher principles as an effect of lower principles. It is doing a great ulta.
Nope . Religion is highest ulta created by humans and confuses the masses. I hope sravanaji read veda , quran and bible in spare time. You will know what i am saying
 
Nope . Religion is highest ulta created by humans and confuses the masses. I hope sravanaji read veda , quran and bible in spare time. You will know what i am saying
Dear Suresh,

Let us leave aside all religions. Based on my experience with spiritual energy I would say it strongly supports righteousness and points to the existence of all powerful and all benevolent God.

If science and technology are used for good purposes we can pride ourselves on those achievements. Technology is more used for wicked and unethical purposes by governments all over most notably the powerful nations. It is even used to keep people under total control. If you say religion brainwashed people, technolgy has systematized and perfected that process.

People no longer are in control. It is their inventions that are in control. We are creating Frankenstein monsters from which there would be no escape.

Something really needs to be done to prevent self destruction.
 
Nope . Religion is highest ulta created by humans and confuses the masses. I hope sravanaji read veda , quran and bible in spare time. You will know what i am saying
What you wrote holds good if we navigate religion with our intellect.
This is when our pre conceived notions interfere with reality.

If we " read" scriptures through " intellectualization" we might take everything too literally.

Its only when we start emptying our minds, scriptures reveals itself in a customized format oriented to the need of the moment.

Hence a particular shloka or verse might have different shades of expressions to different people and also different expressions for the same person at different times in that person's life.

The problem is we all tend to be rigid and think only one expression is the Truth and miss out the full picture.
 
Dear Suresh,

Let us leave aside all religions. Based on my experience with spiritual energy I would say it strongly supports righteousness and points to the existence of all powerful and all benevolent God.

If science and technology are used for good purposes we can pride ourselves on those achievements. Technology is more used for wicked and unethical purposes by governments all over most notably the powerful nations. It is even used to keep people under total control. If you say religion brainwashed people, technolgy has systematized and perfected that process.

People no longer are in control. It is their inventions that are in control. We are creating Frankenstein monsters from which there would be no escape.

Something really needs to be done to prevent self destruction.
I dont think religion can be left out of the equation.
Its important to address religion.
Spiritual energy concepts too are related and not divorced from religious practices.

If you believe in God, its very hard to divorce spirituality from religion.

Actually the monster created by Dr Frankeinstein was very spiritual.
Because he kept questioning his origins.
The " Naan yaar" situation and he also wanted to know the purpose of his lifeless life.
He desired a partner to share his life too.
Kind of spiritual.
 
Dear Renuka,

True spiritual energy can do wonders. That level is being reached in me now. It can transform you totally. Earlier I had the traditional view of a revolutionary change. But now I have a different view of revolution. I now believe true revolution is achieving its objectives without changing anything else. It maintains status quo which says that physical truths are more illusions and it is the mind that decides and creates reality. My views are getting refined and I see a personality change in me looming.
 
The ego of the scientists are really so bloated especially those of a particular nation. They need to accept that others also have the capability to think.

Dear Suresh,

Let us leave aside all religions. Based on my experience with spiritual energy I would say it strongly supports righteousness and points to the existence of all powerful and all benevolent God.

If science and technology are used for good purposes we can pride ourselves on those achievements. Technology is more used for wicked and unethical purposes by governments all over most notably the powerful nations. It is even used to keep people under total control. If you say religion brainwashed people, technolgy has systematized and perfected that process.

People no longer are in control. It is their inventions that are in control. We are creating Frankenstein monsters from which there would be no escape.

Something really needs to be done to prevent self destruction.
Sravanaji. Supporting righteouss can be give positive vibration but that not proof of creator . Regarding technology , it like scalpel or knife. It decided by their selves
 
Dear Renuka,

True spiritual energy can do wonders. That level is being reached in me now. It can transform you totally. Earlier I had the traditional view of a revolutionary change. But now I have a different view of revolution. I now believe true revolution is achieving its objectives without changing anything else. It maintains status quo which says that physical truths are more illusions and it is the mind that decides and creates reality. My views are getting refined and I see a personality change in me looming.
Sravanji , pls refer me to your guru. I experience it . Maybe my view can be changed . But i still believe god doesnt exist
 
I dont think religion can be left out of the equation.
Its important to address religion.
Spiritual energy concepts too are related and not divorced from religious practices.

If you believe in God, its very hard to divorce spirituality from religion.

Actually the monster created by Dr Frankeinstein was very spiritual.
Because he kept questioning his origins.
The " Naan yaar" situation and he also wanted to know the purpose of his lifeless life.
He desired a partner to share his life too.
Kind of spiritual.
Frankeinstein is creation of man . Man want to reflect is own feeling and logic and insecurities whatever thing resembled them. If frankestein is created by say a cow it will not give a second thought on creator and will happily goes grazing in field
 
Frankeinstein is creation of man . Man want to reflect is own feeling and logic and insecurities whatever thing resembled them. If frankestein is created by say a cow it will not give a second thought on creator and will happily goes grazing in field
Have you asked a cow what is in it's mind?
 
Sravanaji. Supporting righteouss can be give positive vibration but that not proof of creator . Regarding technology , it like scalpel or knife. It decided by their selves
If you are asking for proof as in science that will not work. It is purely personal experience that can convince one. But you help that process by having an open mind.
 
Have you asked a cow what is in it's mind?
Good question requiring serious thought. Humans are enamored of their own capabilities and think they can bring things under their control and for their selfish benefits. I have a strong sense that nothing can be farther from truth.
 
Sravanji , pls refer me to your guru. I experience it . Maybe my view can be changed . But i still believe god doesnt exist
I not campaigning for forced change. Things happen perfectly under natural course and at the right time. I just would want to put forth my perspective
 
Dear Suresh ji,
We humans are the most disconnected from reality.
Animals are not the dumb ones.
We are the dumbest of all creatures.
 
Dear Suresh ji,
We humans are the most disconnected from reality.
Animals are not the dumb ones.
We are the dumbest of all creatures.
Yes Renuka. I agree. Animals do not have the ego to go against the nature and tide. But rid of ego humans realize their true divine power.
 

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