Kedarnath - earlier & now

[கால பைரவன்]

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It is all due to extreme material greed of human beings, mostly Indians in this case. In the guise of promoting tourism to Badrinath, Kedarnath, etc., all the natural resources which can be sold and turned to cash, have been exploited recklessly - and for several years now.

Nature is such a huuuuge force that when it just shrugs, thousands will die. This simple lesson which even the primitive barbarian man knew somewhat, has been forgotten by the present day Indians and the governments.

Dear Sangom,
What you say may very well be true. But, it seems that natural calamity of such a magnitude has happened in those areas even in the late 19th century. Please see the attached image. A caveat: I found this on social media. Not sure about the authenticity.

When such a calamity happens, there is a tendency to push through agendas (anti-development or global warming or even atheism) done most often than not without due diligence and as an excuse for poor remedial response.

 

[Nara]

.... So the BBs are BBBs (Brahmin bashing bigots) all one and the same..

Let me see how many B's I can string together, Brahmin Bigots Bashing Brahmin Bashers, that is five B's BBBBB, not bad ah -- just kidding, don't bash me again.

BTW, I agree with you, hatemongering is bad, and if one has that itch it is indeed best for one and all to get rid of that itch el prompto.... this holds for any itch though not just the hatemongering kind

 

[prasad1]

Uttarakhand’s two shrines where most pilgrims are stranded — Badrinath and Kedarnath — have witnessed almost a four-fold increase in visitors in a decade, a Right To Information (RTI) reply showed, hinting at the ecologically unsustainable growth there.

A view of devastated area of Kedarnath, in Rudraprayag. (HT photo)


Figures provided by temple trusts showed a huge influx of pilgrims on visits to Kedarnath and Badrinath between 2003 and 2012.
In Kedarnath, the number grew from 1,69,217 tourists to 5,75,040 and in Badrinath it went up from 1,34,010 to 5,95,020. Interestingly, during the same period, the influx of foreign tourists to these shrines witnessed a 10-fold fall.

Uttarakhand government officials said the leap in religious tourism in recent years could be attributed to several companies, which offer affordable packages to visit four dhams.
One can visit Kedarnath and Badrinath with boarding and lodging for anything between Rs. 10,000 to Rs.15,000 and all four for less than Rs. 20,000.
This has obvious implications. The Uttarakhand government’s own data shows a five-time increase in vehicle registration in the state with 70% of them devoted to passenger ferrying services even though the condition of last mile connectivity roads remains in tatters.
The central government was not oblivious to the impending danger either. A Planning Commission report on tourism for the 12th five year plan had a section on religious tourism, which addressed many of these issues.
It said that the “challenges which need to be addressed” included better last mile connectivity, proper hotels and solid waste management at religious sites, most of which are close to water bodies.
[FONT=Arial, Tahoma, Verdana]MS Reddy, vice-chairman of National Disaster Management Authority (NDMA) said religious tourism in Uttarakhand needs to be regulated the way Amarnath Yatra in Jammu and Kashmir is done with a cohesive disaster mitigation plan.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Tahoma, Verdana]The_Hindustan_Times[/FONT]

 

[prasad1]

I was looking for a post in this thread, wherein a claim was made that agamic gods are superior, but I could not find it. Perhaps it was deleted later but my guess is that such a post was not made So references to such non-existing posts are part of the usual run-of-the-mill bashing. It is pathetic that even a natural calamity of such a magnitude is used as an opportunity for some to bash.

A word on this coinage of "brahmin bigots" shortened as BB as a riposte to usage of "Brahmin bashers". There is a fundamental difference here. The word "brahmin basher" is akin to say "deer hunter" in the sense that it is the deer that is hunted and the brahmins who are bashed - so the qualifier comes from the poster's actions and not from poster's caste. On the other hand, the accusation "Brahmin bigots" or the one used before "paarppana budhdhi" is simply a casteistic attack, because it refers to the caste of the poster. The usage "Brahmin bigots" serves as proof of bashing.

The truth is that the bashers themselves are the bigots because they pretend to be well-wishers of the community but indulge in such casteistic attacks even in unrelated threads such as this one. So the BBs are BBBs (Brahmin bashing bigots) all one and the same. The sooner the BBBs get rid of this hatemongering itch the better it is for them.

Why do we visit the same topic of Brahmin Bashing in every thread. This is about a natural disaster, may be accentuated by actions of men. Why blame God? Why is God confined to such man made abode only?

 

[Anand Manohar]

Bala Sir

Your post # 23

You are only partly correct. U/Khand is NOT a backward place. True, tourism and pilgrimage are a good
source of livelihood for the local population. But in the last 10 years or so, Corporate Giants
like Tata Motors, Ashok Leyland, M & M, Hero Motors and TVS have set up manufacturing plants
here - you can imagine the direct and in-direct employment generated directly and in the ancillary
vendors. U/Khand, can by no means be placed in the 'backward' list of Indian States.

Every one of these Auto Majors and their components suppliers located in the Rudrapur-Pantnagar belt
has chipped in with whatever they can by way of men and equipment. Every one of these companies has
shut production and has asked their personnel to volunteer for relief work - I have huge battalions
deployed in the Mandakini-Alakananda belt. I couldn't have asked for a more committed and able-bodied
team of men and women.

The BRO [Border Roads Orgn] is restoring the access roads, IAF flying food and relief sorties, The Army
helping clear debris, build temp. bridges and base medical camps - most importantly, Radio Frequencies
have not gone blink, Wire-less and Satcom still intact. GPS and Satnav too make make it that much easier.
[ At least, I don't have to scream, in a strange language at a half-dead communication set - and hope to be
heard and signals picked-up by passing aircraft / ocean going vessels ] - I have seen worse situations.

The 'Press', their crew and elaborate equipment in such critical circumstances are an absolute nuisance.

Bala Sir, the Tatas, Hindujas, Mahindras - all have come forward with generous donations for the relief
effort .

Got to go now - Namaskaar, Vanakkam, Khuda Hafeez.

Yay Yem

 

[Brahmanyan]

: Kedarnath--earlier & now...

Dear Sri Anand Manohar,

You may be correct. My knowledge is more than 10 years old. When I went there the only big industry was BHEL near Haridwar. Now many pharmaceutical and Auto components industries have openedup in Uttarakhand.

Well I am glad you have been doing a great service at this time of need.
Wishing you well.

Warm regards.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[kk4646]

Bala Sir

Your post # 23

You are only partly correct. U/Khand is NOT a backward place. True, tourism and pilgrimage are a good
source of livelihood for the local population. But in the last 10 years or so, Corporate Giants
like Tata Motors, Ashok Leyland, M & M, Hero Motors and TVS have set up manufacturing plants
here - you can imagine the direct and in-direct employment generated directly and in the ancillary
vendors. U/Khand, can by no means be placed in the 'backward' list of Indian States.

Every one of these Auto Majors and their components suppliers located in the Rudrapur-Pantnagar belt
has chipped in with whatever they can by way of men and equipment. Every one of these companies has
shut production and has asked their personnel to volunteer for relief work - I have huge battalions
deployed in the Mandakini-Alakananda belt. I couldn't have asked for a more committed and able-bodied
team of men and women.

The BRO [Border Roads Orgn] is restoring the access roads, IAF flying food and relief sorties, The Army
helping clear debris, build temp. bridges and base medical camps - most importantly, Radio Frequencies
have not gone blink, Wire-less and Satcom still intact. GPS and Satnav too make make it that much easier.
[ At least, I don't have to scream, in a strange language at a half-dead communication set - and hope to be
heard and signals picked-up by passing aircraft / ocean going vessels ] - I have seen worse situations.

The 'Press', their crew and elaborate equipment in such critical circumstances are an absolute nuisance.

Bala Sir, the Tatas, Hindujas, Mahindras - all have come forward with generous donations for the relief
effort .

Got to go now - Namaskaar, Vanakkam, Khuda Hafeez.

Yay Yem

Sri.AM Sir,

I am in 'dark'...Through which organisation you have taken up this ...?..Sorry..I don't know much about your services..Is it as volunteer or somethingelse..?


TVK

 

[sarang]

There is no news of any foreign power (neighbours included) offering help in the form of equipment, food and medicine. Why is this so?

 

[prasad1]

As rescue workers raced against time and weather on Saturday to find survivors in the Uttarakhand hills devastated by flash floods, The Sunday Express found out that protests by local residents did not allow helicopters to land in Kedarnath two days before disaster struck.


Official sources said "people with vested interests" fuelled the protests. There was also a strike by mule operators, trapping a large number of pilgrims in the Kedar Valley from where bodies are still being recovered by rescue teams.


More rain is expected Sunday night, and is likely to hamper rescue work. Officials said the death toll stood at 680.


No helicopter could carry pilgrims from Phata and Guptkashi to the Kedarnath shrine on June 14 and June 15 — the flash flood swamped the area on June 16.


Everyday ten private helicopters ferry pilgrims from Phata and Guptkashi to Kedarnath and back. One official said the protests targeted the helicopters and helipad in the name of "environment protection" and since the flights did not operate for two days, there was an unusually large concentration of pilgrims in Kedarnath.
Indian_Express

 

[Nara]

…… It is all due to extreme material greed of human beings, mostly Indians in this case. In the guise of promoting tourism to Badrinath, Kedarnath, etc., all the natural resources which can be sold and turned to cash, have been exploited recklessly - and for several years now. .

Dear Shri Sangom, I have travelled to Badrinath a couple of time and I have seen how dangerous the roads are even when there is no or very little rain. Probably the government could provide better roads and reinforcements where mud/rock slides are common. This would further increase tourists. But that is not a bad thing -- why must only the rich and powerful get to see these lovely places, let the common people do as well. For this the government must take the lead and develop these hard to reach and dangerous areas in an environmentally friendly way with proper safety measures and emergency response and mitigation plans. If these were in place perhaps the nature’s fury could have been borne with a little less loss of lives and pain and suffering.

Today, I heard from the TV channels that all visitors to badri and kedar have been banned for a period of 3 years.

I hope the government will utilize these three years to make it safe for people to visit these places once again.

…..When such a calamity happens, there is a tendency to push through agendas (anti-development or global warming or even atheism) done most often than not without due diligence and as an excuse for poor remedial response.

KB, I don’t think there needs to be any worry that agenda of atheism may be pushed through, for one thing we are vastly outnumbered, and our message finds very little traction. However, I am really surprised that you seem to question the reality of global warming. We certainly can’t connect the tragic events in Uttarkhand to global warming, but there is near consensus among the scientific community that increasing frequency and ferocity of natural calamities like cyclones, flooding, and the unfolding tragedy in Uttarkhand are due to increasing levels of carbon in the atmosphere and humans are responsible for it. So, I am all in favor of using the calamity as a catalyst to push through sensible measures to combat global warming. If we as humans don’t address this issue we are doomed to see more and more such events with even more tragic consequences.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

. However, I am really surprised that you seem to question the reality of global warming. We certainly can’t connect the tragic events in Uttarkhand to global warming, but there is near consensus among the scientific community that increasing frequency and ferocity of natural calamities like cyclones, flooding, and the unfolding tragedy in Uttarkhand are due to increasing levels of carbon in the atmosphere and humans are responsible for it.

I admit AGW is a big topic and I did not do justice by mentioning it in passing. However, my opinion is that, not all is black and white and there is evidence of data manipulation, gagging of contrarian views and research and too much politics influencing scientific research even in this area. I know there is a lot of "blame it one the west" in this forum, but I do believe on this issue, the developed countries are pushing reforms on developing countries based on dubious data with vested economic interests.

 

[Nara]

I admit AGW is a big topic and I did not do justice by mentioning it in passing. However, my opinion is that, not all is black and white and there is evidence of data manipulation, gagging of contrarian views and research and too much politics influencing scientific research even in this area. I know there is a lot of "blame it one the west" in this forum, but I do believe on this issue, the developed countries are pushing reforms on developing countries based on dubious data with vested economic interests.

Dear KB, I agree with you on your criticism of the so called developed nations of the West, they have a lot to answer for. Their attitude towards AGW in general and carbon emissions in particular is appalling. They do act on their vested economic interest. That is what capitalism is all about, it is avaricious, and, axiomatically it does not and cannot care but be avaricious. But to question the overwhelming evidence of AGW as dubious is not prudent. There is near unanimous consensus about this issue among the scientific community and they have no political ax to grind.

The fact is, when it all goes down, the rich nations of the West will probably suffer the least and may even be able to tough it out with only the poor among them bearing the brunt of it. Just look at the hurricane Sandy devastation and how the U.S. Federal government stepped in and made everything whole again. But the poor nations like India just do not have the resources and they are the ones who are on the frontline and likely to suffer the most which may even mean complete annihilation.

To take a narrow nationalistic view is unwise, whether done by those in the West or by those in the nations with emerging economies. Like it or not, due to their enormous economic strength, if a solution to this crisis could be found, it is going to be from one of these economically advanced countries. The key is for the progressives around the world to stay united and keep the feet of the leadership of the economically advanced countries to the fire. To get divided by nationalistic passions is imprudent.

Best, Dileepan

 

[tbs]

There is no news of any foreign power (neighbours included) offering help in the form of equipment, food and medicine. Why is this so?

hi sarang sir,

i think india never asked for...like hurricane sandy....USA managed itself...now india's turn....india has enough resources tooo...

its pilgrim places too....like famous CHAAR DHAAM YATRA...being hindus/sikhs holy places....may be....this is the reason...

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Dear KB, I agree with you on your criticism of the so called developed nations of the West, they have a lot to answer for. Their attitude towards AGW in general and carbon emissions in particular is appalling. They do act on their vested economic interest. That is what capitalism is all about, it is avaricious, and, axiomatically it does not and cannot care but be avaricious. But to question the overwhelming evidence of AGW as dubious is not prudent. There is near unanimous consensus about this issue among the scientific community and they have no political ax to grind.
The fact is, when it all goes down, the rich nations of the West will probably suffer the least and may even be able to tough it out with only the poor among them bearing the brunt of it. Just look at the hurricane Sandy devastation and how the U.S. Federal government stepped in and made everything whole again. But the poor nations like India just do not have the resources and they are the ones who are on the frontline and likely to suffer the most which may even mean complete annihilation.
To take a narrow nationalistic view is unwise, whether done by those in the West or by those in the nations with emerging economies. Like it or not, due to their enormous economic strength, if a solution to this crisis could be found, it is going to be from one of these economically advanced countries. The key is for the progressives around the world to stay united and keep the feet of the leadership of the economically advanced countries to the fire. To get divided by nationalistic passions is imprudent.
Best, Dileepan

Whoa! You have seamlessly connected so many different topics (capitalism, nationalism, progressive etc) that I am unable to provide an "equal" response. I disagree with your take on nationalism on this issue because the idea of a corrupt world body dictating terms is not acceptable to us. This position is not an emotional position but a rational position. I do not think capitalism is at the core of this problem either.
If you are not already familiar with this blog, may I kindly recommend Climate Audit. The blog is purely a science blog and the main author is a mathematician.

Contrary to what you think, the unanimous consensus, if it exists, on this issue is not based on solid scientific data. That is the crux of the problem.

 

[Nara]

.....Contrary to what you think, the unanimous consensus, if it exists, on this issue is not based on solid scientific data. That is the crux of the problem.

KB, as far as I can tell, all the main stream scientific opinion seem to confirm AGW. You can start from NASA scientist James Hansen to the Union of concerned Scientists. But none of this will make a difference if people are as politically motivated as you seem to be. I hope you are not.

For what it is worth, and it may not be much as it is my personal experience, I have seen it first hand, when we vacationed in Alaska, I saw the receding ice line of glaciers, literally, more so than my brother-in-law’s receding hairline. Don’t take my word for it, just look at this NY Times article.

This is not an ideological or nationalistic issue. At this point it is not about who is responsible -- I think it is global capitalism, if you disagree, that is fine – the reality is we still have to face the problem of annihilation of our descendants – the level of devastation we now see in Uttarakhund will only be repeated multiple times worse.

The US and the West are primarily responsible for the sorry state we are in right now. But that doesn’t mean we are at liberty to blissfully repeat their mistakes all over again. There is near unanimous consensus, and this consensus is among the scientists not politicians, and it is not what KB says it is. What is most unfortunate is, if KB is wrong the brunt of his error will be felt not by those who are primarily responsible, i.e. the West, and not by those who can escape its devastating impact like KB and yours truly, but it is the poor and disenfranchised people of the most economically backward and politically voiceless people of our dear earth.

 

[tbs]

hi

?????? ??????? ????? ??????????! - Dinamani - Tamil Daily News

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Congratulation dear Mr. TVK for creating history - to my limited knowledge.

In the past ~3 years I have seen posts being moved AWAY from G.D

to the other sections. For the first time I am seeing the opposite happen! :thumb:

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

There is no news of any foreign power (neighbours included) offering help in the form of equipment, food and medicine. Why is this so?

Apparently this calamity was foreseen and the concerned authorities were forewarned.
As usual they fell on deaf ears thereby risking the lives of tens of thousands or devotees.
So when we wantonly jump to the epicenter of a danger,
we can't expect others to come running to our help.
Now the accurate prediction is possible several days before anything actually happens.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

But..WHY god has to do this to his OWN Shrine..?


TVK

Actually God's shrine is the ONLY thing that had withstood the flood. :hail:
Your O.P is the proof for this fact.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Yes..This what I was thinking...!!


TVK

Then WHY do people visit the shrines - undergoing so much trouble an speeding a fortune???

 

[kk4646]

Congratulation dear Mr. TVK for creating history - to my limited knowledge.

In the past ~3 years I have seen posts being moved AWAY from G.D

to the other sections. For the first time I am seeing the opposite happen! :thumb:

Sometimes ..I DO create...!!! [ Ha.. Ha.. I am not responsible for it...!!]...


TVK

 

[kk4646]

Then WHY do people visit the shrines - undergoing so much trouble an speeding a fortune???

A Million dollar[multiply by 60 and above..for desi equivalent...!!] question..!!

Very simple answer... "WHO KNOWS"...!!


TVK

 

[கால பைரவன்]

But none of this will make a difference if people are as politically motivated as you seem to be. I hope you are not. .

On the contrary, it is the likes of Nara who are steadfastly holding to their pet notions regarding greenhouse gases and global warming presumably because their favorite political parties support such theories.
The fact is science related to this issue is not clear yet. Reforms are pushed so that it benefits companies and countries that are already invested in new technology. For those with open mind, here is another blog that supports contrarian view.
Science and Public Policy
CimateAudit is better in the sense it only deals with science but this is also useful as it gathers good information related to this issue.

What is most unfortunate is, if KB is wrong the brunt of his error will be felt not by those who are primarily responsible, i.e. the West, and not by those who can escape its devastating impact like KB and yours truly, but it is the poor and disenfranchised people of the most economically backward and politically voiceless people of our dear earth.

Classic scaremongering! The very same poor people will be the worst affected if our country blindly enters into a binding agreement because the new technologies are expensive, the benefits may be too small, takes away precious resources from other pressing problems such as minimizing pollution, alternate technologies such as building solar panels and constructing wind farms may result in deforestation, land erosion - the list is big.

 

[prasad1]

On the contrary, it is the likes of Nara who are steadfastly holding to their pet notions regarding greenhouse gases and global warming presumably because their favorite political parties support such theories.
The fact is science related to this issue is not clear yet. Reforms are pushed so that it benefits companies and countries that are already invested in new technology. For those with open mind, here is another blog that supports contrarian view.
Science and Public Policy
CimateAudit is better in the sense it only deals with science but this is also useful as it gathers good information related to this issue.


Classic scaremongering! The very same poor people will be the worst affected if our country blindly enters into a binding agreement because the new technologies are expensive, the benefits may be too small, takes away precious resources from other pressing problems such as minimizing pollution, alternate technologies such as building solar panels and constructing wind farms may result in deforestation, land erosion - the list is big.

To an extent I understand the point, I also understand why India rejects all these global pacts.
But just by burying our head in sand will the known global problems go away?
When the sun comes up the poor is going to poorer, Can we stop sun from coming up?
We have to accept the problem and find the right medicine, sometimes the medicine does not taste good, what can you do.
Not every calamity is man made, but there are calamities helped by reckless use of the nature, that can be avoided.

 

[Nara]

.... For those with open mind, here is another blog that supports contrarian view.
Science and Public Policy...

SPPI is a think tank with the agenda of global warming denial. We surely need to read what they are saying, but we need to understand that they are promoting their own agenda.

There are even some scientists who don't agree that AGW is real or if it is happening, it is no big deal. But they are in the minority, no that is not true, they are in miniscule sliver of a minority. Take a look at this site, a small excerpt:

A follow-up study by the Skeptical Science team of over 12,000 peer-reviewed abstracts on the subjects of 'global warming' and 'global climate change' published between 1991 and 2011 found that of the papers taking a position on the cause of global warming, over 97% agreed that humans are causing it (Cook 2013).​

Bob Inglis was a Republican Congressman who was once a staunch climate-change denier until he became a member of the House Committee on Science and Technology and saw the evidence for himself. Here is something he said in an interview:

“I went to Antarctica and saw the evidence. And one thing that was compelling to me was, you know, the South Pole is a desert and gets a quarter of an inch of precipitation a year, and it's 10,000 feet above sea level. It's 5,000 feet of dirt, and then 5,000 feet of ice on top of that, and just a little teeny bit of powder on top. So we've drilled down through the ice, and we have a record of the earth's atmosphere and its CO2 levels. And this gives a pretty clear indication of stability followed by an uptick that coincides with the Industrial Revolution.”​

He is now a strong advocate for carbon tax.

As I have been saying, this is not an ideological issue, it is not a nationalistic issue, we all are in it together. I am not saying that developing countries like China and India must pay the price for the recklessness of the West. We need to find solutions working together. Simply denying global climate change is not wise.