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Kundalini awakening

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Dear Renuka,

I see your posts are getting less and less suitable for a debate. I welcome opposing views but not those just for the sake of opposing.

Dear Sravna,

I am not opposing for the heck of it...I am bringing up salient features too..may be you dont have answers yet.

I am not sounding arrogant...that is not my intent..by suggesting to seek a Guru is totally inline with our Hindu heritage.
 
Dear Renuka,

For all our talk we do not follow almost any of our tradition.

I am presenting things as I see it and trying to give a new interpretation. I am not saying a Guru would not be valuable for that but I am able to see the truth and value of our scriptures as I see it.
 
Dear Renuka,

For all our talk we do not follow almost any of our tradition.

I am presenting things as I see it and trying to give a new interpretation. I am not saying a Guru would not be valuable for that but I am able to see the truth and value of our scriptures as I see it.

Yes and I agree with you and it includes your goodselves.

You had opened threads after threads on "advaita" and though others disagreed, sometimes vehemently, per your assertions, it was Adi Sankara's advaitam.

I remember having read in Brahma-sUtra BhAsyam of Sankara, he has ruled out possibility of mukti by any other method (except self realization), including sAnkhya mArga of which I believe kundalini awakening and samAdhi form a part.

So are you now into kundalini awakening after having been liberated via advaita margA, some sort of second liberation..?
 
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Yes and I agree with you and it includes your goodselves.

You had opened threads after threads on "advaita" and though others disagreed, sometimes vehemently, per your assertions, it was Adi Sankara's advaitam.

I remember having read in Brahma-sUtra BhAsyam of Sankara, he has ruled out possibility of mukti by any other method (except self realization), including sAnkhya mArga of which I believe kundalini awakening and samAdhi form a part.

So are you now into kundalini awakening after having been liberated via advaita margA, some sort of second liberation..?

Dear Shri Zebra Ji,

I do not think that kundalini awakening can give you mukthi. In the times of rampant moral corruption which is trying to take roots, that I believe anything that can stem the rot may be used as a means. I did not say that I am going to take people all the way up to mukti but help people who sincerely are seeking to be their own selves.

So I do subscribe to the views of Sankara on this too.
 
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Dear Shri Vaagmi,

My belief is that mukthi or liberation from the bondages of the physical world happens when ones is fully self realized , that is he realizes that real self is atman and atman is brahman.
 
Dear Shri Vaagmi,

My belief is that mukthi or liberation from the bondages of the physical world happens when ones is fully self realized , that is he realizes that real self is atman and atman is brahman.
I will wait till zebraji gives his definition.
 
Some hilarious exchanges here... !!

Kundalini, I have read, is related to "Urdhva-retas". It is believed that by controlling sexual desires the energy of the semen could be directed upwards through the spine and this produces an equally orgasmic sensation as it courses through the sushumna nadi. Not sure how it works for ladies though.

I was much interested this kundalini in my younger days, and read some books... Sivananda's books was one of them... he mentions what power one gets on awakening the chakras... I do not recollect now - mahima, garima, lahima etc. I have not heard of one credible sanyasi or sadhu who claims to have activated kundalini do any of this. It is all in theory. None in practice.

Apart from deluding the mind into believing that some sort of charisma or divine energy is coursing through the body, kudalini is nothing but kundi-la-aani (pardon the expression).

I'd rather get it (the feeling, not the aani !) in some spiritual energy bottled up and available for sale.
 
Apart from deluding the mind into believing that some sort of charisma or divine energy is coursing through the body, kudalini is nothing but kundi-la-aani (pardon the expression).

I'd rather get it (the feeling, not the aani !) in some spiritual energy bottled up and available for sale.


I read this a couple times to make sure my eyes were not playing tricks on me!LOL

I could not stop laughing...it has been a very long time since I had such a good laugh.
 
Dear Sravna,

I have a question...all this talk about Kundalini or God etc...all these seem so virtual that is it only exists in some remote dimension of our mind but its not really in front of our eyes.

That is why now I have stopped consoling people by telling them to pray.

Sometime back I had a case of a person who lost her adult only son in a hit run accident case and he died on the spot.

I never told the lady to pray to gain strength..in fact I told her to cry..it takes quite a lot of time to get over grief..if she was depressed I could give her some meds for a while but most important is she should not try to fake being strong.

I noticed her husband not allowing to grief telling her to stop crying and pray to God for strength.

I told her to let herself cry...I let her cry right in front of me for almost 20 mins..I said feelings have to flow.
Crying is not a sign of weakness..its the road to gaining a clearer picture and acceptance eventually.

I told her by holding on to trying to be strong too soon we actually weaken ourselves.

I told her one has to have real people who care for us and to some extent if a person stresses too much on the need for prayer it might just seem that they do not want to really listen to you cry.

So find people who will hold your hand and let you cry and not someone who passes all the responsibility to God.

She finally recovered well cos she found people who would listen to her cry.

So do you think sometimes moving away from the concept of God actual helps recovery?
 
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Dear Sravna,

I have a question...all this talk about Kundalini or God etc...all these seem so virtual that is it only exists in some remote dimension of our mind but its not really in front of our eyes.

That is why now I have stopped consoling people by telling them to pray.

Sometime back I had a case of a person who lost her adult only son in a hit run accident case and he died on the spot.

I never told the lady to pray to gain strength..in fact I told her to cry..it takes quite a lot of time to get over grief..if she was depressed I could give her some meds for a while but most important is she should not try to fake being strong.

I noticed her husband not allowing to grief telling her to stop crying and pray to God for strength.

I told her to let herself cry...I let her cry right in front of me for almost 20 mins..I said feelings have to flow.
Crying is not a sign of weakness..its the road to gaining a clearer picture and acceptance eventually.

I told her by holding on to trying to be strong too soon we actually weaken ourselves.

I told her one has to have real people who care for us and to some extent if a person stresses too much on the need for prayer it might just seem that they do not want to really listen to you cry.

So find people who will hold your hand and let you cry and not someone who passes all the responsibility to God.

She finally recovered well cos she found people who would listen to her cry.

So do you think sometimes moving away from the concept of God actual helps recovery?

I would add this:

The events and point of time can be divided into two. 1) Pre catastrophy and 2) Post catastrophy.

And forces and their interplay that inexorably lead an individual through situations can also be divided into two. 1) those in the perceptible and visible realm and 2) those beyond human perception/visible spectrum.

When an individual grapples with the visible/perceptible powers and forces and loses the struggle, it becomes a pathetic helpless surrender and the individual needs 1) recuperation and 2)retaining self respect and self esteem to move ahead and meet life's challenges (more of them are on the way). At this stage we can call it gathering the self for self preservation. Self preservation needs answers to the questions 1)why to me? 2)What did/did not I do to deserve this? 3) Am I fit for nothing? 4) am I not equipped ? and finally 5) am I inadequate to the tasks of life?

Similarly when an individual grapples with "divine" punishments the situation can be explained with the same set of words as above.

In the two situations there is a difference. In the perceptible realm he can identify a particular deficiency in him to blame. But in the matter of catastrophies which visit without any reason there is no benefit of such blaming even.

So in both situations the God entity becomes handy. He can be blamed, he can be questioned no end, he can be even abused, mocked at, even garlanded with chappals -- and in the process what is achieved is self preservation by the victim for facing further onslaught of catastrophies.

This is only looking at the question of crying inconsolably mentioned in the quoted passage. This has nothing to do with philosophy or religion.

Whether it is a loss of fortune due to bombing by enemy or loss of life of a very dear one in a freak accident, self preservation is paramount post the incident and God comes handy. Just crying wont solve the problem and questions will stand echoing. All the answerless questions can be addressed to him and left in the air hanging as he wont answer and we know that.

Briefly put, pre catastrophic loss, chest thumping, challenging, persevering, fighting, feeling all powerful, muscle flexing and many more are all okay. They are natural to the upcoming struggle as a prelude. But after losing the battle/after the catastrophy the situation is different. a badly injured ego needs carefull nurturing and self preservation becomes the paramount task. To take the load of the mind God comes handy. He can be the sink into which you pour all the humiliation you feel, all the muck in you, all the unanswerable questions you have, all your secret deficiencies which you can not share with outside world and all your fears.

Do not just cry. For heavens sake, do pray or have a dialogue with God even if turns out to be just a monologue.LOL.

These lines from a tamil pasuram of Alwar stands out for the situation:

எங்கேயும் கரைகாணாது எறி கடல் வாய் மீண்டேயும் வங்கத்தின் கூம்பேறும் மாப்பறவை போன்றேனே!
 
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Dear Renuka,

Crying is an immediate response to a grief. Once you finish crying some of the immediate grief would seem to be taken off. But in the long term one needs to cope up with the grief. You need real strength for that and that's when communication with God even though one way can give you that strength.
 
Some hilarious exchanges here... !!

Kundalini, I have read, is related to "Urdhva-retas". It is believed that by controlling sexual desires the energy of the semen could be directed upwards through the spine and this produces an equally orgasmic sensation as it courses through the sushumna nadi. Not sure how it works for ladies though.

I was much interested this kundalini in my younger days, and read some books... Sivananda's books was one of them... he mentions what power one gets on awakening the chakras... I do not recollect now - mahima, garima, lahima etc. I have not heard of one credible sanyasi or sadhu who claims to have activated kundalini do any of this. It is all in theory. None in practice.

Apart from deluding the mind into believing that some sort of charisma or divine energy is coursing through the body, kudalini is nothing but kundi-la-aani (pardon the expression).

I'd rather get it (the feeling, not the aani !) in some spiritual energy bottled up and available for sale.

The response to this post branches out into 3 different strands.

First the experience part:

Please read post #29 of Dr Renuka. The post is written quite a few years after the episode or "experience" with the recollection of what actually happened. I would not venture to call it as mere delusion, because I did not experience it or the experience was not observable by another person or scientifically measured.

Secondly, if it is very possible and very common to stimulate sexual high by means like masturbation etc. and cause sensation in the reproductive organ of the human beings, would it not be possible to channel the seminal fluid to other regions in the body?

In almost all of my readings, the rise and fall of kundalini is accompanied by searing heat along the path it traverses and though I have not seen, I have heard people recounting the blackening of skin in specific areas like throat, on the back, at the base of the skull etc. So I would not put it as mere delusion of mind.

In fact I feel that science or people with scientific bent of mind (more than required I would believe) are quite dismissive of personal experiences as delusion. Lack of self experience or observable means cannot or should not be the reason for treating a particular happening as "delusional".

Thirdly, there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGE in the psyche or physiology of the "experiencer" (except the little bit blackening of skin which wears off after a bit of time). Neither his station in life improves, nor he is in a position to bring about improvements in the society, nor is there any solution to the problems he faced in life prior to the said "experience".

So what ultimate benefit would be the extensive rigor that has been taken to activate the kundalini? No one just explains that. Everyone who experiences or supposedly experiences kundalini just writes or blabbers about their experience.

I would be very much interested if the "trance" activates brain cells and solves or attempts to give solution to the problems faced at least by the narrator of kundalini experience.
 
I would be very much interested if the "trance" activates brain cells and solves or attempts to give solution to the problems faced at least by the narrator of kundalini experience.

Dear Shri Zebra,

In my view awakening and rising of kundalini is an effect. One needs to be spiritually advanced for kundalini to be active. As one gets more and more spiritual the kundalini shakthi also rises from one chakra to another. This definitely has got an impact on the physical and mental system. It has effects on youth, health , beauty and intelligence.

To put it succinctly awakening and rising of kundalini is the means through which the evolution of the soul is manifest in the physical and mental aspects of a person.
 
I would be very much interested if the "trance" activates brain cells and solves or attempts to give solution to the problems faced at least by the narrator of kundalini experience.

Dear Zebra Ji,

For me at least I can safely say that I did all medical tests ranging from MRI Brain/Spine to EEG and Hormone Profile and everything was Normal.

Whatever I experienced did not make any changes anywhere nor could I detect medically as why I underwent that experience.

But that episode only screwed up my heart beat....I used to have a normal heart rate before but after that episode I developed an irregular type of heart beat which is not dangerous types. Could just be a co-incidence for all I know.


At any other level there was no visible change at all...everything in life remained the same.

I do not believe that a state of enlightenment means no problems and one lives in bliss happily ever after.

That would be totally delusional to imagine bliss 24/7.

I dont think the human mind is totally designed to be in Mania of Bliss forever.

We have a multipolar existence that is a blend of sorrow and joy and handling both is the name of the game..no harm committing blunders cos everything is an experience...also its not always easy to handle joy or sorrow especially if it comes in cyclical rapid successions.

I do not want to subscribe that Kundalini has a harmonizing effect cos frankly speaking "what is the use of even having an activated Kundalini?"

How does it do any good to the human or society?

I don't have all answers but I guess we will never really know.
 
If one tries to awaken or rise kundalini without trying to change the mindset to a spiritual one, then one is actually awakening kundalini by force and it will produce undesirable side effects. That is the reason our systems are aimed at both mind and body so that we are not forcing the effects.
 
If one tries to awaken or rise kundalini without trying to change the mindset to a spiritual one, then one is actually awakening kundalini by force and it will produce undesirable side effects. That is the reason our systems are aimed at both mind and body so that we are not forcing the effects.

Dear Sravna,

If Kundalini is so "divine" and "spiritual" how come it seems to be from your understanding that it does not have an auto correct mechanism to make one's mind "spiritual?"

It seems to me that you just contradicted your whole theory that "spiritual " energy is harmonizing and has an auto correct capacity.

If one can raise Kundalini yet have a non spiritual mindset..that shows Kundalini is divorced from "spirituality" and merely a neutral energy and I might have to go along with the understanding of Auh Ji that Kundalini is a Nail in Ano.
Well you made it sound that way!LOL
 
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Kundalini-- not the "Ani" of Auhji-- is an intensely personal experience for an individual who pursues it in his yoga practice. At least that is what we learn from the volume of literature on Yoga and samadhi. As auhji said it is said to be the Urdva redhas rising up and then showering down.

As it is an intense personal experience it is difficult to explain. It is perhaps just to be experienced. If we think about it a little deeply we realise how helpless we are all in this. we are all each a separate entity sealed super-hermetically and sent into this world to play out our scripts written by an unknown writer.

We have very few common denominators which too are imperfect to relate our experiences to each other.

Thus even a basic color perception has nothing final about it because my blue color need not be the same blue color for another person in terms of the sensations experienced. It can be my yellow in terms of sensations it induces in him.So we define colors using the next best available scientific parameter called wavelength and we are comfortable with it because we have a grip of wavelength as a perceptible parameter with clearly defined units of measurment. This being the case with such simple experience like color perception, how are we to perceive kundalini. We try our best to know it and understand it through an overkill of the medium called language. Hence it is an experience to be just experienced and not to be talked about.

And as long as we talk about without experiencing it, it will be just a flying unicorn with feathers of 12 colors. LOL.

Those who have experienced it have talked about other things that we understand. They say they gained the power to walk on water surface, to be present simultaneously in different places geographically separated, to shrink their physical body into a tiny dot, to know what is happening at a distant place sitting far away from there etc., But as said by some one here these are all achievements-if I may call them that- with which there is nothing tangible achieved as far as the spiritual progress of an individual is concerned. At the most it may impress your followers-if you have any-and make them wide eyed. You may call a new entrant into that charmed circle by name, thus surprising him and may even tell him that he got a male baby just five minutes back at his home in the far away timbuctoo where his wife was living. He will instantly be impressed and will call you even a God because it is considered a God like quality by him.

But in religious philosophy this achievement of kundalini is considered as a mere distraction. And it is an altogether different topic. If interested someone may start a new thread to discuss it.
 
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Dear Sravna,

If Kundalini is so "divine" and "spiritual" how come it seems to be from your understanding that it does not have an auto correct mechanism to make one's mind "spiritual?"

It seems to me that you just contradicted your whole theory that "spiritual " energy is harmonizing and has an auto correct capacity.

If one can raise Kundalini yet have a non spiritual mindset..that shows Kundalini is divorced from "spirituality" and merely a neutral energy and I might have to go along with the understanding of Auh Ji that Kundalini is a Nail in Ano.
Well you made it sound that way!LOL

Dear Renuka,

Kundalini shakthi in my understanding is spiritual energy, the locus being the body. From your experiences in the physical world the jivatma evolves. The next births the body also comes evolved with the appropriate kundalini awakening and level.

Now, there is the concept of force which is energy acting in isolation or more correctly divorced from the inner l part of reality. When we try to manipulate the energy only in the physical reality without the corresponding adjustment in the inner reality, discordance between the realities happen.

So in the case with kundalini, when one is increasing the energy in the body without making necessary adjustments in the mind, there will be side effects. There will also be harmonising effects on the body but will be opposed by the side effects. Unlike in the case of physical energy, the side effects can also be on the mind.This is when kundalini is awakened by right techniques. If not I do not think even the harmonising effects will be there.
 
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Dear Renuka,

Kundalini shakthi in my understanding is spiritual energy, the locus being the body. From your experiences in the physical world the jivatma evolves. The next births the body also comes evolved with the appropriate kundalini awakening and level.

Now, there is the concept of force which is energy acting in isolation or more correctly divorced from the inner l part of reality. When we try to manipulate the energy only in the physical reality without the corresponding adjustment in the inner reality, discordance between the realities happen.

So in the case with kundalini, when one is increasing the energy in the body without making necessary adjustments in the mind, there will be side effects. There will also be harmonising effects on the body but will be opposed by the side effects. Unlike in the case of physical energy, the side effects can also be on the mind.This is when kundalini is awakened by right techniques. If not I do not think even the harmonising effects will be there.

Oye Sravna,

Yeh Kya Bhashya Yaar?


You are just twisting, turning and altering "facts" looking for escape routes...from a Nail in Ano now it has become a Fistula!
 
Nope Renuka. What is wrong with the logic>

Kya Logic Yaar?

I dont see it...you have been painting a picture in 50 shades of an undefined hue that Spiritual Energy is Harmonizing/Auto Correct..it is inherently 'intelligent" and it knows how to set things right...but the moment I said that you have presented a new twist as if Kundalini is divorced from Spirituality cos its activation might not spiritualize the mind...you now sing a different tune.

If you now say that if one does not make the needed spiritual changes in the mind when activating Kundalini it can have undesirable effects that means you HAVE to automatically agreed that Kundalini is technically Neutral and NOT spiritual in anyway.

Its like this Sravna...If we give a knife to a serial killer he takes a life...if we give a knife to a surgeon he saves a life.

Therefore it only goes to show that Mind is always over Matter and Yeh Kundalini too is just a energy of a neutral kind and having it activated does not really confer any spiritual status.

So Sravna...the Fact is Energy is Energy...it can be used either way...Its just a tool in the hand of the user.

So therefore Spiritual Energy is also nothing but Energy used the right way.

Its not easy to digest that Spiritual Energy technically does NOT exists.

Use Energy right...we personalize it as Spiritual.

Use Energy wrong...others personalize it as Evil.
 
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