Let us reclaim our rights

[sarang]

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In a tv interview Rahul Bajaj said that they did not ask for caste details in the application form, but the government wanted to know the percentage of backward employees(!) in the workforce; so they had to collect this info. I am sure many socially conscious (?) companies may be collecting this data; who knows when it will come in useful. Many companies want to know the religion.

One applicant I interviewed had written 'brahmin' in the column for 'religion'. When I asked him why as that is not the right answer, his answer was quite perceptive. I can change it to hindu if you want, but the prevailing situation nobody is accepting me as a hindu.

He got the jog as he was smart, qualified and ranked higher than the other applicants.

Dear Biswa,

If the job is in chennai and if it is a job in government sector, it is illegal NOT to enquire about his caste classification. You may be accused of flouting governmental norms.

If the interview is for a job in private sector, AFAIK, there is no such legal requirement, though I think it won't be long before the govt shoves caste-based reservations down your throat!

You might have been caste-blind during this particular interview process but better get used to being caste-conscious!

 

[palindrome]

Dear Shri Palindrome,

I have clearly stated that what was written in that post, referred to by you, was not my view but the opinion of the majority here.

" I personally have a different set of ideas and beliefs about brAhmins and their past in India, but it has been the majority view here in this forum (and this has been iterated again and again, on many occasions, I remember) that brAhmins had been a sAtvik community for almost all its existence and that the brAhmins had been used by the powerful kshatriya and vaisya communities to write out scriptures, purANAs, dharma sAstras and so on and so forth in such a way that these three (brAhmin, kshatriya and vaisya) castes would enjoy supremacy over the rest of the population of bhAratavarsha. As a small concession, the brAhmins had been permitted to give unto themselves a nominal superiority in all such scriptures, purANAs, dharma sAstras, etc. "

The highlighted sentence was, of course, one of the explanations possible to justify the meek, subservient role of the brahmins as reflected in the said majority views of this Forum and the superiority for brahmins which we find in most of our scriptures, ostensibly written by the meek and spineless brahmins at the dictates of the the other two "dwija" castes. There could be other valid explanations also but nothing else readily comes to my mind.

Hope the position will be clear to you now.

It was not immediately clear to me whether you were reflecting your own views or representing opinion of the majority here. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Mr Kunju has gone silent, as all good hypocrites do when confronted with the truth. I didn't mean any offense to Iyengars, but it seems like they've mastered the art of survival much better than Iyers have. They've joined the mainstream more seamlessly than other brahmins.

Violence is not the means to the end, but it might show that we mean business and are here to stay. Brahmins have become an object of ridicule and subjected to extreme harassment in Tamil Nadu. And figures show that Iyers are hurtling towards extinction faster than any other caste. The men remain bachelors, the women marry NBs.

 

[suraju06]

Hmm, unfortunately the job was not for a position in India. Everybody regardless of caste is happy to emigrate you know.
So to make the hiring decision, first I have to figure whether it is suitable to hire Indian or not Indian, then whether Tamil or Kannadiga (the candidate was in Blore but had an address in Chennai), Brahmin or non Brahmin, Shaivite or Vaishnavite.
Only then if I have time I should consider the technical capabilities of the candidate and maybe not for more than 10% of the grade. No wonder the public sector in India has gone down the drain. That will also be the case for private undertakings who hire based on sectarianism rather than ability. Thank you for using the term "caste blind". I like that!

Dear Biswa,

I wonder what kind of a job was it that required a careful consideration as to whether the candidate is 1. an Indian or not 2. a Tamil or Kannadiga 3. brahmin or non-brahmin 4. Saivite or Vaishnavite 5. a male or female or the third category 6. a black or a white or an yellow 7. whether he has a tuft or a mush or a thoppai etc.(for these were indications of whether he was a brahmin, a kshatriya or a vysya in old days), even before assessing his/her technical capabilities needed for the position. India is a mad mad world indeed. A simple suggestion to add a marginal weightage point to a brahmin candidate if all other things are equal among two contestants need not be twisted so much out of shape.

We are a strange crowd who are capable of regressive hair-splitting ab infinitum.

 

[prasad1]

Mr Kunju has gone silent, as all good hypocrites do when confronted with the truth. I didn't mean any offense to Iyengars, but it seems like they've mastered the art of survival much better than Iyers have. They've joined the mainstream more seamlessly than other brahmins.

Violence is not the means to the end, but it might show that we mean business and are here to stay. Brahmins have become an object of ridicule and subjected to extreme harassment in Tamil Nadu. And figures show that Iyers are hurtling towards extinction faster than any other caste. The men remain bachelors, the women marry NBs.

Mr. Ashwin,
You failed to answer my questions, What do you propose as an action?
What does a women want in a mate? How does possessing an AX is going to change the plight of Brahmin?

 

[suraju06]

Recently I interviewed a candidate from Chennai. Should I have enquired about his caste before making the decision whether or not to hire him? Now I feel bad ...

Dear Biswa,

You feel bad about what? That you did not find that out or that it has been suggested here that one should find that out? Could you please make it clear?

Cheers.

 

[suraju06]

Ashwin,

Mr Kunju has gone silent, as all good hypocrites do when confronted with the truth. I didn't mean any offense to Iyengars, but it seems like they've mastered the art of survival much better than Iyers have. They've joined the mainstream more seamlessly than other brahmins.

How did you come to this conclusion? The thought process or the reasoning please.

Cheers.

 

[renuka]

Mr Kunju has gone silent, as all good hypocrites do when confronted with the truth. I didn't mean any offense to Iyengars, but it seems like they've mastered the art of survival much better than Iyers have. They've joined the mainstream more seamlessly than other brahmins.

Violence is not the means to the end, but it might show that we mean business and are here to stay. Brahmins have become an object of ridicule and subjected to extreme harassment in Tamil Nadu. And figures show that Iyers are hurtling towards extinction faster than any other caste. The men remain bachelors, the women marry NBs.

Dear Ashwin,

I still remember one post you wrote about the classification of Iyengars long back!

 

[renuka]

I am starting to wonder what is the obsession with Parashurama who was only a half brahmin since his mother was not a Brahmin and therefore he would be classified as a Brahmakshatriya.

His mother ate the potion meant for begetting a brave mighty King which was NOT meant for her.
So she ended up having Parashurama with all Kshatriya qualities.

So for all practical purposes Parashurama is unlike the average gentle Brahmin..so why does everyone want to be him?

 

[கால பைரவன்]

His mother ate the potion meant for begetting a brave mighty King which was NOT meant for her.
So she ended up having Parashurama with all Kshatriya qualities.

Is there a possibility that this is a concoction to protect the interests of the Kshatriyas? It is a common theme that one can see in other epics and puranas also - that only a kshatriya has the might and capability to challenge another kshatriya.

Karna, for example, could have well been the son of charioteer, but because he was able to challenge Arjuna, a revelation might have been concocted that he is son of Kunti. It is also possible Krishna was actually born to Yasodha but such a powerful king would have to come only from a Kshatriya lineage!

The whole Mahabharatha war was fought to protect the kshatriya status of Pandavas. They were willing to take just five villages in order to avoid war, but they must be the head of those five villages. Otherwise, they would have lost their kshatriya status.

The rules that punished inter-varna marriages, IMO, benefitted kshatiryas the most. It is customary for the kings of those days to have plenty of concubines (from other varnas) but the rightful onwership of kingdom must go only to the official heir (who would be of kshatriya lineage). The concubines could not marry the king because conveniently the religious shastras prohibit it!

Even in modern days, we see this problem cropping up time and again - varisu fighting in political parties.

Everything benefitted the kshatriyas but it is the brahmins who cop the blame. The brahmins must have been meek and subservient. Not that hard to believe when you have people advising brahmins even today to continue to remain meek and subservient and not to look beyond tharbai and karaNti!

 

[sravna]

In today's world one needs to have the blessings of Saraswathi, Lakshmi and Parvathi in abundance. The first is to have the potential for prominence, the next is to achieve that prominence and the last is to maintain that prominence. Intelligence, money and valor are all required unlike in the past when each used to be the preserve of a particular group of people and it was enough if you possessed only one of them in abundance.

The blessings of saraswathi is given at birth and brahmins are fortunate to possess that. Even if they had been meek and poor in the past as some members would like to point out, by dint of their natural ability to adapt they can overcome those shortcomings today and have the most potential to be successful in today's competitive world.

 

[sarang]

Without losing the core values, passionately adhering to vedic karmas, today's brahmins can and will survive and will earn and retain the respect of such people who value their traditions.

There are many brahmins - subramaniam swamy, gurumurthy, cho, three election commissioners, and many more, who have done well without diluting the brahminical values - both theory and practice.

In today's world one needs to have the blessings of Saraswathi, Lakshmi and Parvathi in abundance. The first is to have the potential for prominence, the next is to achieve that prominence and the last is to maintain that prominence. Intelligence, money and valor are all required unlike in the past when each used to be the preserve of a particular group of people and it was enough if you possessed only one of them in abundance.

The first is the most difficult to acquire and the second is the easiest to acquire and the last falls in between. Brahmins are fortunate on that count. Even if they had been meek and subservient in the past as some members would like to point out, by dint of their natural ability to adapt they can overcome that shortcoming today and have the most potential to be successful in today's competitive world.

 

[XLR8R]

And figures show that Iyers are hurtling towards extinction faster than any other caste.

I wouldn't say this, though of course the Iyer population within Tamil Nadu itself would probably be decreasing for various regions. My guess is that more and more Iyers marry into other Brahmin communities (both men and women), and some boys do love marriage with Brahmin or non-Brahmin girls. That's why, in terms of absolute numbers, the figures may mislead. Not to mention that (tamil) brahmins are migrating a lot to other countries these days.

I can understand where you are coming from, but "taking up the axe" is not the answer. You do not face extinction as long as you still have opportunities. The men must try finding a mate elsewhere, adjust and adapt their culture accordingly. As part of a mixed family I still retain the Iyer lineage; but the paradox in this is that my features, build and general appearance do not (generally) fit into south India or even Iyers.

Broaden your horizons, embrace a pan-Indian outlook, and if your kids want to do love marriage then let them.

As for brahmin girls and the money factor, I find this is more of a south Indian problem than a brahmin preference. I have observed many Northern Brahmin girls placing less importance on money than the south Indian brahmin girls. The difference I primarily observed was that despite modern education and working etc.; those girls still wanted to retain their culture and found it important. The southern upbringing places too much of an emphasis on money; and I guess people must be thinking that cultural differences can be easily adjusted for if someone is financially secure.

All things said and done.....I am a guy who looks and talks like an all-Indian migrant, has more east Indian friends than anything else, but at the end of the day I am still an Iyer. What I am saying w.r.t. marriage is - if there are Malayali Iyers, Tamil Iyers, Mysore Iyers, even Telugu Iyers, why not spread that elsewhere too? What's wrong with being (for example) an Assamese Iyer (far-fetched as that might sound)?

I am starting to wonder what is the obsession with Parashurama who was only a half brahmin since his mother was not a Brahmin and therefore he would be classified as a Brahmakshatriya.

I have a theory (without substantial proof though) that many of today's Iyers/Iyengars are actually Brahmakshatriyas. Note the lack of kshatriyas in south India compared to North India and also do a gotra comparison, the common gotras for Northern and Southern Brahmins are actually less and a few southern Brahmin gotras are more commonly found in Northern Kshatriya castes.

 

[biswa]

Bravo Mr. Accelerator, well said! But what's the deal with Assamese Iyers? If they want to call themselves Sharmas or Goswamis, so be it. What's in a name?

 

[biswa]

XLR8R I have to disagree with your statement that SI B girls are chasing money though. I think everybody is looking for upward social and economic mobility and money is one dimension in that. Similarly, caste, good looks, good habits, education are other dimensions.

I dont see many SI B girls chasing Marwari businessmen for example.

 

[renuka]

It is also possible Krishna was actually born to Yasodha but such a powerful king would have to come only from a Kshatriya lineage!

Dear Sir,

Somehow classifying Lord Krishna as a Kshatriya makes me a little uncomfortable cos that is sort of humanizing Him.

He is Paramatma(Poorna Avatar) and He is ever powerful from time immemorial.

 

[Raghy]

XLR8R I have to disagree with your statement that SI B girls are chasing money though. I think everybody is looking for upward social and economic mobility and money is one dimension in that. Similarly, caste, good looks, good habits, education are other dimensions.

I dont see many SI B girls chasing Marwari businessmen for example.

Sri. Biswa, greetings.

I think Tamil Brahmin girls seek money, good earnings from the future husband. In fact, I think they give more importance to such preferences than other things. When I was regularly browsing Tamil Matrimony sites, that was the impression I could get.

Now my daughter is 20. She did not grow up in south India. Her preferences are very different. I also notice the local girls. Less girls seem to prefer money and qualifications like the South Indian Brahmin girls.

Cheers!

 

[biswa]

Did God invent caste? Then how can God belong to any caste?

 

[renuka]

Did God invent caste? Then how can God belong to any caste?

God invented society with its various functions like the parts of the limbs of the Supreme Person and we humans called it caste.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Bravo Mr. Accelerator, well said!

Only now did I realize that XLR8R is read as accelerator! Fun stuff!

 

[ashwin_ash]

Brahmins belonging to Atreya gotra are actually Kshatriyas. The violent fighting spirit must somewhere be dormant in them. The Kshatriya Rajus of Andhra, and several Kshatriya clans of north India and orissa belong to Atreya gotra. It is sad to see an entire community moving west, and making holier-than-thou comments in forums such as these.

 

[renuka]

Brahmins belonging to Atreya gotra are actually Kshatriyas. The violent fighting spirit must somewhere be dormant in them. The Kshatriya Rajus of Andhra, and several Kshatriya clans of north India and orissa belong to Atreya gotra. It is sad to see an entire community moving west, and making holier-than-thou comments in forums such as these.

Dear Ashwin,

The Kshatriya Rajus of Andhra Pradesh also have Bharadwaj Gotra.

 

[ashwin_ash]

More so the reason for Brahmins to dig up their heritage and reclaim their rightful place in society..

 

[sarang]

Vidya balan!? May be punjabi!

I dont see many SI B girls chasing Marwari businessmen for example.

 

[sarang]

Well; that is sanatana dharma. Paramatma is born in any varna, kula or as any 'chit'.

Dear Sir,

Somehow classifying Lord Krishna as a Kshatriya makes me a little uncomfortable cos that is sort of humanizing Him.

He is Paramatma(Poorna Avatar) and He is ever powerful from time immemorial.