Life in Vaikundam / Kailash

[Nara]

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What is so extreme about this?

Dear Raghy,

I did not mean "extreme" in a pejorative way. I was trying to simply describe the state of extreme "oneness". The example I was given to describe this oneness is

if the Iswara of Advaitham is like a tree,
the tree is not only one of a kind, but only one tree,
not only one tree, but a tree with no branches
not only bereft of branches, but without any leaves as well
it like an undifferentiated stump of pure consciousness

So, by extreme I did not mean the view of advaitam is an extreme view.

The saranagathi I wrote about is just a presentation of the Sri vaishnava view of things. I was not giving it my personal endorsement.

As far as I am concerned, all religious doctrinal views are fanciful. I would like to teach my grandchildren, if my children will permit me, to be above all religious doctrine and leave god, if he exists, alone.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sri Naran,

Thank you for your explantions about 'Nirguna Brahmam' with an example.

I am very glad nobody explained me 'Advaitam'. If I was given such an example that was given to you, I would have freaked out long back!

When I studied Advaitam, I figured it like this:- ' There are two different fluids placed close together with one partition in between. Both the fluids can mix very well with each other and become one. One of the fluids has the potential to dissolve the partition; that fluid is Jeevatma. (The second fluid will not dissolve the partition). The partition is Maya or illusion. There are conditions apply for the Jeevatma fluid to dissolve the partition. The conditions are non-attachmant; self-lessness; humility; clear presence of mind etc. the list is long, but not impossible. Just thought of sharing my views on the same topic. That's all.

 

[RVR]

Prof Nara ji and Sri Raghy ji,

Good stuff.

Please enlighten us further

All the best

 

[pannvalan]

In 'advaidam' there is nothing concrete; it is more an ideal state, than real for most of the immortals.

Even those 'jnanis' who could touch, taste or be in Advaita state could not explain properly, how they felt and what it was really.

That's why the maxim 'Kandavar Vindilar; Vindavar Kandilar'.

Adi Sankara was an exceptional case.

When a bee is tasting the honey, they remain disparate. But when the bee becomes itself honey, there is no distinction at all. It is a difficult concept to understand and explain.

Arunagirinathar beautifully sums up in 'Kandar Anuboothi'.

"Thannan thani nindrathu thaan athuvum
Innam oruvarkku Isaivippathuvo?".

He also says, "Aasa nigalam thuglayina pinn, pesa anuboothi pirandhadhuve".

 

[[email protected]]

To Sri Raghy Sir, Your reply to myreply for Prof Sri Nara shows how you are confused your self. In this Top of Creation every Athma is having the right to go back to the source,if a thief,a begger, and even the unmoralliving persons having a change to go back to their oen Home, for that they required a Living Master(perfect Guru). The living master will initiated the soul and that soul whom so ever it mean will take a journey towards it own source.That is meditation the one and only way to getrid from cycles of Births and Deaths. The way is the real way of Advaitham which teaches to go back to your own home. No Kailash or Vaikundam is exit, but the placeis within to understand this one rq a GurU. s.r.k. In this birth we can achive this goal. s.r.k.

 

[tvvaradan]

Advaitam

Advaitam is another name for monism. It does not mean many.
The fluid example is excellent.
I have read another explanation.

On a powrnami night a person looks into a well with still water. He sees the full reflection of the moon.
He thinks that the moon has fallen there and wants to lift it up.
He brings an iron hook ( actually a combination of several hooks called paadhala golusu.) lowers it in the well and whirls it. The golusu gets stuck up in between some rocks. He thinks that the moon is caught.
He pulls the rope with great strain and in the process, a rock moves. He falls with his back on the floor and naturally looking up the sky. The moon is already there evershining. He is very glad that he has got the moon up from the well and put it on the sky..
We are already divine , but we have been thinking that we are not. ( A very difficult concept)All our sadhanas and prayers help us to remove the ignorance called maya and we realize our true nature .
Until then the differences etc are there.
Adisankara is nor blind to this world of differences and distinctions.
He has told about three sathyas. 1. pradhibhasika sathyam 2 vyavaharika sathyam 3. paramaarthiga sathyam
Many other schools of thought unnecessarily blame Adisankara
pradibasika sathyam is sathyam of the dream (dream is true until it is known as a dream)
vyavaharika sathyam is you and me and this world of events etc.
paramarthiga sathyam is pure conciousness without any attributes.
Then wahat about dwitha and vishistadwaita.
which is true ? which is correct.
It requires the genius and sadhana of Sriramakrishna to come and tell the world about the truth.
These are several stages in the spiritual journey of the sadhaka.
He has to start with dualism, go to qualified nondualism and then culminate in monism.
Unless the realization comes one cannot understand the truth as the truth is beyond vak and manas.
Until then the attempts at philosophies rituals and discussion on mythologies etc are bound to be there.

excuse my mistakes.

 

[renuka]

Even Adi Shankaraacharya who preach Advaitam had said these:

1) Lord knowing that You are beyond the intellect and beyond imagination, I am commiting the error of meditating on You.

2) Knowing that You are indescribable by words, I am trying to describe Your glory.

3) Knowing that You are everywhere and I have been preaching so yet I have come on pilgrimage to Kasi for Darshan.

 

[Abhi]

Can some body tell me about life in Vaikundam?

I know that we cannot eat, sleep, breath, walk etc...... in vaikundam.

what happens to souls after reaching vaikundam / Kailash?

What happens to us after having the Darshan of the Lord?

Do our soul mingle with Lord? or do we wander and live in vaikundam?

Who else live in Vaikundam apart from God, Goddess, Nithyasuris?

I am very Curious to Know?

Can any learned person elaborate on this?

Hi:

Our ultimate goal should not be going to vaikundam or kailash because its not permanent.That's only temporary happiness. Yes, if one does good deeds in this life, then they can go to vaikundam.But for a short period of time, you have to stay there.SO that is not complete anand .Once your time is complete depending on the good deeds , you will have to come back to earth as a human or as an animal.We should always long for lord's vision and try to reach him.

I hope this answer helps.

 

[tvvaradan]

heaven and vaikundam

Sir
Heaven is the abode achieved as a result of good karmas.
Hell a result of bad karmas
Both karmas bind man
Vaikundam is the ultimate abode after achieving which nothing else is to be achieved.(According to vaishnavam)

good karma is a golden chain. Bad karma is an iron chain.

irul ser iruvinaiyum sera idam than vaikundam
iruvinai mummalamum ara iraviyodu piravi ara arunagiri.

Again when we say abode etc we should not think it is a place or city. Then God becomes limited.
Many times allegory and reality are mixed and misunderstood. As it is a diffficult concept we are liable to misunderstand.
so too with kailasam. Kailasm is the ultimate according to that school.
Vaikundam , kailasam, maha nirvanam the kingdom of haven (here heaven is the name used for the ultimate), liberation moksham, paramapadam,kaivalyam, mukthi all should be understood as different names for perfection.
why so many words?
Let us listen to our avvaiyar

ஒன்றாகக் கான் (மூன்று சுழி)பதே காட்சி ; புலன் ஐந்தும்
வென்றான் தன் வீரமே வீரம்.
thanks

 

[Raghy]

Prof Nara ji and Sri Raghy ji,

Good stuff.

Please enlighten us further

All the best

Sri RV Sir,

I do not have the knowledge to enlighten any one. Just like others, I am also seeking. But I am trying to simplify philosophies as much as possible, so that I can understand that. That is all. Honestly, leaving aside writing about advaitham, I do not even deserve to talk about it. I have no such qualities. But still, I am trying to simplify that. Thanks for your encouragements.