My Shirdi trip- some thoughts and questions

[ashwin_ash]

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As suggested by Mr Moderator, I won't name people..

I visited Shirdi recently and was faced with a lot of questions. Shirdi town in itself is quite awful.. bad roads and dusty. But the temple and the 'annadhanam' building are excellent.


But the jostling and pushing crowds is not nice at all. A guy was yelling at me while I attended Baba's night arati, I suggested to him not to argue in a place of worship. My queries are, Baba was a muslim according to his own words. He smoked, and ate non veg. He also recited the quran regularly. He was a normal human being who begged for food daily. The Sai Satcharita book was written many years after his death.


How, and why, did people make him a god? Did he really perform miracles which were documented, and does he really have miraculous powers which we cannot perceive? How come Brahmin priests are performing his rituals? Could it be that a 'God industry' has evolved around Shirdi Sai Baba? In fact nobody really knows who Sai Baba was, what his real name was, where he came from, and what he did till 1908 (only the last 10 years of his life have been documented). How did Shirdi Sai Baba come to be inducted in the Hindu pantheon of Gods?

He never even claimed to be a godman, or perform miracles, he used to stare at the sky and utter "Allah Malik" all day.

There is even a Sai Gayatri and Shirdi Sai Yantras today!!

<Moderator Notes>
If you are a believer, then use your discretion. Topic discussed can be very sensitive in nature. This topic is being allowed only to discuss the "God Industry" and not to question to Sai Baba or anyone else. - Praveen
</end>

 

[Nara]

...Now that Sathya Sai Baba is also dead, why has he not become as "famous" as Shirdi Sai Baba? Why is there no 'God industry' surrounding him?

Unless you mean something very specific by "God industry" I thought there already exists a wide and sprawling one .... no?

 

[ashwin_ash]

Unless you mean something very specific by "God industry" I thought there already exists a wide and sprawling one .... no?

I meant the process where living humans come to be revered as "Gods" and a whole money industry starts evolving around them. The main road in Shirdi is called "Manoj Kumar Goswami marg" (the hindi actor) just because he made a film on Sai Baba. It was funny and disturbing at the same time.

 

[Nara]

I meant the process where living humans come to be revered as "Gods" and a whole money industry starts evolving around them. The main road in Shirdi is called "Manoj Kumar Goswami marg" (the hindi actor) just because he made a film on Sai Baba. It was funny and disturbing at the same time.

If this is what you mean then your question, "Why is there no 'God industry' surrounding him?" in post #1 seems quite uninformed.

 

[ashwin_ash]

If this is what you mean then your question, "Why is there no 'God industry' surrounding him?" in post #1 seems quite uninformed.

You certainly don't have to stand in lines for several hours to "worship" at Satya sai's samadhi. And what I meant was, Shirdi seemed to be a religious theme park with 'convention centers', 'amusement and water park', the presence of 'bollywood', and of course the Sai Baba temple (wonder if it was ever consecrated)..

 

[Nara]

You certainly don't have to stand in lines for several hours to "worship" at Satya sai's samadhi. And what I meant was, Shirdi seemed to be a religious theme park with 'convention centers', 'amusement and water park', the presence of 'bollywood', and of course the Sai Baba temple (wonder if it was ever consecrated)..

So for you the distinction is that this is not God industry, but entertainment industry with a little bit of God thrown in ... alright ...

 

[sangom]

I visited Shirdi recently and was faced with a lot of questions. Shirdi town in itself is quite awful.. bad roads and dusty. But the temple and the 'annadhanam' building are excellent.


But the jostling and pushing crowds is not nice at all. A guy was yelling at me while I attended Baba's night arati, I suggested to him not to argue in a place of worship. My queries are, Baba was a muslim according to his own words. He smoked, and ate non veg. He also recited the quran regularly. He was a normal human being who begged for food daily. The Sai Satcharita book was written many years after his death.


How, and why, did people make him a god? Did he really perform miracles which were documented, and does he really have miraculous powers which we cannot perceive? How come Brahmin priests are performing his rituals? Could it be that a 'God industry' has evolved around Sai Baba? In fact nobody really knows who Sai Baba was, what his real name was, where he came from, and what he did till 1908 (only the last 10 years of his life have been documented). How did Shirdi Sai Baba come to be inducted in the Hindu pantheon of Gods?


Now that Sathya Sai Baba is also dead, why has he not become as "famous" as Shirdi Sai Baba? Why is there no 'God industry' surrounding him? Instead, his relatives are fighting in public over his wealth.


In the absence of any documented miracles, how come humans are made into Gods?

Dear Ashwin,

Almost all 'religions' are, in reality, God Industries Pvt. Ltd. Shirdi Sai Baba is said to have come to that village of Shirdi from where, nobody knows. He was a muslim and it is said that "Allah Malik" was his usual refrain. I have read Sai sacharita and there are a few anecdotes therein of what may be called impossible for normal humans. There were many people, even in my Trivandrum, from the poorest sections of the society who used to keep a photo of Baba, light a lamp before it every evening and worship baba for helping them tide over their financial difficulties. Like the worship of any other god, some of these people got over their poverty with passage of time, children studying well and getting into one or the other public sector jobs which was vastly expanding during the 1950's through 1970's. But I will not say it was some sudden luck or something like that.

Satya Sai Baba (SSB) who was Satyanarayana Raju, was, according to some reports an unemployed youth. Shirdi Sai Baba expired in 1918 ans Raju proclaimed himself to be saibaba reincarnate in 1940.

Though SSB could attract a lot of people from all over the south and also from the north as time passed, there remained a core group which possibly did not accept the reincarnation theory and stuck to the original sai baba of shirdi only. Gradually, Shirdi became a favourite pilgrimage place for such people and also for tourists. There is a village near Shirdi where no thief ever strikes and the houses are not locked at all; that is also a major tourist attraction, I am told.

Seeing the potential for a flourishing god industry, entrepreneurs in this line from Bombay laid the foundations of what Shirdi is today. They made the initial investments and have been reaping very rich harvests for a number of years now.

People are "deified" not based on miracles but on the basis of the belief which people come to possess about some others. For example Thyagaraja, the Carnatic Music Composer. The stone idols of none of our temples by themselves have shown any miracles but you will find millions thronging to such temples. Shirdi saibaba is so believed by many whereas SSB does not seem to have that much belief from people despite all the miracles and materializations which were credited to him.

Ultimately, all these are God Industries Pvt. Ltd. and it is the wealth under their command which acts as the gravitational force for the managers.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Ashwin,

Wonder why you visited Shirdi, when you don't believe in Sai Baba!!

 

[sarang]

There is no harm in visiting as long as the traditions and beliefs of the the faithful are not trampled or made fun of. May be out of hundred ten are genuine bhaktas and the rest come out of curiosity, to find what is wrong and what they find offensive.

Only the sight seeing groups make the place commercial and then blame the originals. Some are moved to see the room where he stored the grain, the utensils used and the grinding stone used for pounding and the tree which gave him shade and shelter.

Anyway, the god industry provides livelihood to thousands and improves their standard of living. That is good, isn't tit. And gives a god sent opportunity to some to shout, abuse and criticize brahmins and hindus. By the shirdi sai baba had many brahmin admirers; Satya sai baba too.

Dear Ashwin,

Wonder why you visited Shirdi, when you don't believe in Sai Baba!!

 

[ashwin_ash]

There is no harm in visiting as long as the traditions and beliefs of the the faithful are not trampled or made fun of. May be out of hundred ten are genuine bhaktas and the rest come out of curiosity, to find what is wrong and what they find offensive.

Only the sight seeing groups make the place commercial and then blame the originals. Some are moved to see the room where he stored the grain, the utensils used and the grinding stone used for pounding and the tree which gave him shade and shelter.

Anyway, the god industry provides livelihood to thousands and improves their standard of living. That is good, isn't tit. And gives a god sent opportunity to some to shout, abuse and criticize brahmins and hindus. By the shirdi sai baba had many brahmin admirers; Satya sai baba too.

As sarang rightly says, there's no harm in visiting as long as you do not offend. Mere blind acceptance of miracles which no one ever saw but was written about after Shirdi Sai Baba's death does not make one a believer either.

Many temples feed on mass hysteria and I noticed Shirdi is also among them. If you keep perpetuating myths for a very long time (I am "not" saying the events of Shirdi were myths, but they could have been myths too), the myths gradually become reality. I am not saying I do not believe in Sai Baba, I'm yet to find out if I believe or not.

 

[praveen]

There are many members and readers who are followers/devotees of Satya Sai Baba. Hence, in view of that, this thread is now closed.
If names are not going to be mentioned and a guarantee that a discussions without going into specific individuals can be given, this may be reopened.

 

[mkrishna100]

There are a few strong devotees of Shridi Sai Baba in my family and friend circles and they tell me that they always feel strengthened after a visit to Shridi and feel that Shridi Sai Baba comes to their aid when they are in deep crisis and have many incidents to support the same . Daily Puja to Shridi Sai baba , daily reading of Sai Sat Charita , every Thursday visit to a Shridi Sai Temple in their City and yearly 1,2 visit to Shridi is their regular activity and they feel quite strengthened by these activities and by their devotion to Shridi Sai Baba and I see no harm in what they do .
Most of the spiritual/religious places in India are thriving business for Spiritual /Religious Tourism and that gives lot of employment to the locals there . I see no harm in the same as long as they keep the area clean , hygenic and provide proper and affordable facilities to handle the huge rush of pilgrims to those places .
Recently I was on a trip to Golden Temple Amritsar and our tour Guide told that apart from Agriculture the only thriving business in Amritsar is tourism ( esp Visit to Golden Temple and Wagah Border ) that provides employment to most of people .Again inside the Golden Temple Complex it is very clean and neat but outside the streets are very congested , narrow , dirty .The same is the case of many other spiritual /pilgrim places .

 

[praveen]

Thread re-opened. Please do not use this thread to offend the beliefs of other members/readers. This topic is being allowed only to discuss the "God Industry" and not to question to Sai Baba or anyone else.

 

[sarang]

Both shirdi trust and sidhdhivinayak temple (mumbai) trusts are controlled by powerful politicians. For some reason, two years ago, they wanted to exchange their controls; not sure why?

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

If the question is about Shirdi Sai Baba being considered a GOD, he is not the first nor the last one. Lord Swaminarayan, the founder of the Swaminarayan sect is one of the most popular. Then we have Vasavi Amman who was a human being. Santoshi Maa was a Widow who committed sati. Santhoshi Maa was the first to become popular because of a movie. Jai Santhoshi Maa.

If you have the time, please go through the hundreds of sites listed here.

Open Directory - Society: Religion and Spirituality: Hinduism: Gurus and Saints

 

[Raji Ram]

Recently, this temple has become very famous in our village. A woman made as Goddess.

You may read the history and other details of the temple by clicking the following link:

Masaniamman Temple Details, Anaimalai

 

[sarang]

It was famous even twenty years ago. Perhaps it is more famous now.

Recently, this temple has become very famous in our village. A woman made as Goddess.

You may read the history and other details of the temple by clicking the following link:

Masaniamman Temple Details, Anaimalai

 

[vgane]

The early stages of SSB is not known..Some say that he is a Muslim & a Sufi saint..There are others who say that Shirdi Sai Baba is a Hindu saint born to Brahmin parents..However what I noticed during my visit to the temple in 2003 it is only Hindus who are visiting the temple not Muslims...

Let us appreciate that lot of charity is happening in the name of SSB..Let us welcome that..

There is one TB-K.V.Ramani an entrepreneur who has contributed Rs 110 crores in the form of Sai Ashram to Sri Saibaba sansthan

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

The early stages of SSB is not known..Some say that he is a Muslim & a Sufi saint..There are others who say that Shirdi Sai Baba is a Hindu saint born to Brahmin parents..However what I noticed during my visit to the temple in 2003 it is only Hindus who are visiting the temple not Muslims...

Let us appreciate that lot of charity is happening in the name of SSB..Let us welcome that..

There is one TB-K.V.Ramani an entrepreneur who has contributed Rs 110 crores in the form of Sai Ashram to Sri Saibaba sansthan

Has any Tamil Brahmin ever contributed 110 crores to a temple? Even 1 crore? We have thousands of temples where there is no money even to light a lamp.


Sadly many Hindus have come to believe that people like Shirdi Sai Baba and other Saints can perform miracles and grant boons whereas GOD in temples can not.


Sad state of affairs.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

has any tamil brahmin ever contributed 110 crores to a temple? Even 1 crore? We have thousands of temples where there is no money even to light a lamp.


Good observation.

Unfortunately, every 100 year or 200 years human beings are made god, right from

the days of rama and krishna.




Sadly many hindus have come to believe that people like shirdi sai baba and other saints can perform miracles and grant boons whereas god in temples can not.


Sad state of affairs.

if this tb happens, who donated crores, to be from iyer community, it is far

more embarrasing, since saivite brahmins are not supposed to worship human

beings.


It is high time worship is restricted to god only.

 

[prasad1]

if this tb happens, who donated crores, to be from iyer community, it is far

more embarrasing, since saivite brahmins are not supposed to worship human

beings.


It is high time worship is restricted to god only.

Just for argument then we should not worship "Rama", "Krishna", Ayyappa and other forms too. It is very difficult to make this argument. In the south you have "andal" and in the North they have "Radha" statue in temples.

Who or what is God? If you say the nirguna Brahman is the only God I am with you, but all other forms are limited god superimposed on the Brahman too.

 

[Raji Ram]

It was famous even twenty years ago. Perhaps it is more famous now.

It is becoming more and more popular and special buses are plying between Pollachi and Masani amman temple,

which is situated at about one KM from Anaimalai bus stand.

 

[sarang]

I was a bit confused between anaikaty and anai malai. I have visited both dayananda saraswati's ashram and masani amman temple.

It is becoming more and more popular and special buses are plying between Pollachi and Masani amman temple,

which is situated at about one KM from Anaimalai bus stand.

 

[venkat2206]

Dear All,

There is a very big complex - buildings from A to L - each of the building having four floors - a total of more than 900 rooms available in this complex. Reservations can be made "on line" and a reasonable charge of Rs 950 for A/c rooms and much lesser for non-A/C rooms. Free buses are provided every 30 minutes from this complex to the temple. I have stayed in this place for 4 months back.

As such I am a regular visitor to the Shirdi Sai Temple. Nearby place where there are no doors / locks for the houses is a place called "Shani Singnapur" - Shani temple is siutated here. This temple is in between Shirdi and Pune-MUmbai hihgway.

In India, next to Tirupathi, maximum number of people visit Shirdi - second richest temple in India (without taking into account Shri Padmanaba Swamy temple, Trivandram). There are thousands of people who walk to Shirdi even from far away places like Mumbai. NOrmally this is a yatra spread over for more than 10 days. Enroute there are lot of people who provide lunch / tea / snacks free of cost to these people.

Ultimately, if you ask a question - why lakhs of people visit Tirupathi - Sabarimala - Palani - Vaishodevi - Kashi - Gaya - Shirdi - everything is because of undisputable faith people have in these places. If someone is not having any faith or interest in these things better let them not visit or not write about these things in this forum.

Venkat K

 

[prasad1]

Dear All,

There is a very big complex - buildings from A to L - each of the building having four floors - a total of more than 900 rooms available in this complex. Reservations can be made "on line" and a reasonable charge of Rs 950 for A/c rooms and much lesser for non-A/C rooms. Free buses are provided every 30 minutes from this complex to the temple. I have stayed in this place for 4 months back.

As such I am a regular visitor to the Shirdi Sai Temple. Nearby place where there are no doors / locks for the houses is a place called "Shani Singnapur" - Shani temple is siutated here. This temple is in between Shirdi and Pune-MUmbai hihgway.

In India, next to Tirupathi, maximum number of people visit Shirdi - second richest temple in India (without taking into account Shri Padmanaba Swamy temple, Trivandram). There are thousands of people who walk to Shirdi even from far away places like Mumbai. NOrmally this is a yatra spread over for more than 10 days. Enroute there are lot of people who provide lunch / tea / snacks free of cost to these people.

Ultimately, if you ask a question - why lakhs of people visit Tirupathi - Sabarimala - Palani - Vaishodevi - Kashi - Gaya - Shirdi - everything is because of undisputable faith people have in these places. If someone is not having any faith or interest in these things better let them not visit or not write about these things in this forum.

Venkat K

Sir,
Very well written post. Appropriate and said with enough punch.