oh canada

[kunjuppu]

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today, the S&P reduced the triple A rating.

ok, for the first time, the holiest of holy cows has been given a caning. gone is the veneration.

my only question to mrs K this morning was: how long could we run a household, with an income of 64 cents, and spend 1 dolla.

the raising of the debt ceiling, is not about repayment of debts, but increase it, to pass on to some future generation. i understood, that governments encouraged inflation, so that the repaid debt, in real value will be less than what was borrowed, with interest rates, never making up for the lost value.

two ways to reduce the gap - raise taxes; which the rich in usa wont let happen, considering how greedy and selfish they are. here is below, an interesting admission from the third richest man in the usa, but with a conscience i think, warren buffett

‪Warren Buffett's Tax Rate is Lower than His Secretary's‬‏ - YouTube

the other way is to cut spending. the usa military industrial complex has a stranglehold on entitlements which no usa president can touch. the usa old people, who also support the Tea Party movement, will not let anyone touch the medicare. only the poor who have no franchise, will get screwed with medicaid being cut.

Poll: 70 Percent of "Tea Party Supporters" Oppose Medicare Cuts

methinks, that there is a structural imbalance here.

it was like that in canada too. but 15 years ago, one prime minister called, jean chretien, a quebecois, brought in limited austerity over a period of 10 years and ended his term with surpluses..

also the oligopoly banks here wanted to merge, join their american and european cousins, in what they thought, was big leagues, and million dolla paychecks for their executives. chretien demurred. in retrospect, that was the smartest thing to do, as it sheltered canada from the type of meltdown that happened in the usa.

here in canada, the banks, have to stick to the old tried rule, if you lend money, you should have a backup reserve, atleast 1/7 of it or something like that. not bragging here. canada is a small country, small population, 2nd largest land mass of earth, and lives on natural resources. mostly anyway.

but, managing a country, is no different than managing a household, in principle. should we all not live within our means?

வரவு எட்டணா செலவு பத்தணா கடைசியில் துந்தணா. n'est pas?

 

[ShivKC]

I have a Prime Minister, not a President
I speak English and French, not American (KJ's english is too good a kind of art)
And I pronounce it “about,” not “aboot.”
I believe in peacekeeping, not policing (KJ does it in this forum too)
Diversity, not assimilation (Kj believes it strongly)
And that the beaver is a truly proud and noble animal.
And it is pronounced zed, not zee, ZED!
Canada is the second largest landmass
The first nation of hockey
And the best part of North America!
My name is Kujuppu
And I AM CANADIAN

sh.kujuppu, parlez vous francais?


this is about my earlier post about polson beer..

‪I Am Canadian‬‏ - YouTube

 

[kunjuppu]

I have a Prime Minister, not a President
I speak English and French, not American (KJ's english is too good a kind of art)
And I pronounce it “about,” not “aboot.”
I believe in peacekeeping, not policing (KJ does it in this forum too)
Diversity, not assimilation (Kj believes it strongly)
And that the beaver is a truly proud and noble animal.
And it is pronounced zed, not zee, ZED!
Canada is the second largest landmass
The first nation of hockey
And the best part of North America!
My name is Kujuppu
And I AM CANADIAN

sh.kujuppu, parlez vous francais?


this is about my earlier post about polson beer..

‪I Am Canadian‬‏ - YouTube

shiv,

i have always believed that flattery will get one everywhere

this, after seeing, an extremely successful uncle, who rose from a no name lawyer in one of kerala's boondock villages, to seniormost position in a central govt ministry with several foreign postings along the way. the man will flatter straight to face, and boy, i found, it worked.

one week with him, and i could learn, how to deal with people, and get what i wanted. tell nice words to them right to their faces, in a sincere manner. and back it up with action. you can go places!

anyways, no: i do not speak french (except 3rd language stuff i learned for my aihs in the 60s).

i stopped drinking beer long ago, and my favourite at that time, was grolsch and rickard's red.

canada, has an unusual socio politico geographical situation. the people love their yankee neighbours, more cousins, considering the marriage and job relationship, both sides. at heart, the canadians, are more in tune with the scandinavian countries, large land mass, small population and a social democratic welfare society.

which is in direct opposition to the usa self centred entrepreneurial gogetitall culture. the ambitious canadians, move to the usa. the usa, in reality, has no border with canada that is restrictive, for jobs, opportunities or education. just a wicket fence. till recently, we could cross the borders, showing our drivers licence, but that changed with obama.

after all, toronto, is only one hour from washington to newyork, whereas los angeles is 5 hours, and chicago is 2 hours.

we who live north of the 49th parallel, were dismayed when iraq happened. dismayed when afghanistan happened. 9/11 might not have happened with iraq, i do not know.

there is no joy or crowing among canadians, when we see usa in trouble. just sadness and surprisingly, a willingness to help and sustain them through. the bonds are deep, strong, and even more intense, that canada's traditional links with great britain.

the most rightist canadian political party, the progressive conservatives, are still, in line with the liberal democrats of the usa or left of it. that shows, how canadians think re the duties of the government. we grudgingly pay our taxes; grumble, try to cheat a bit here and there, but not much leeway is permitted.

but folks like mrs K are very happy with the usa dolla downfall. great for slipping across the border, and some fantastic shopping. so she says

shiv, thank you for your kind note.

 

[Nara]

....we who live north of the 49th parallel, were dismayed when iraq happened. dismayed when afghanistan happened.

K, perhaps you are conveying something that I am not properly understanding. Whatever may be the Canadian public opinion, the government of Canada has supported all of US misadventures in one way or another.

Canada was one of the very active participants of the first Gulf war. Canadian military was involved in offensive combat operations.

The Afghan war started in October 2001 and Canada sent its troops to Afghanistan in early 2002. At its peak they had more than 2500 soldiers. Over the years more than 150 Canadian military personnel have lost their lives. They are still there, scheduled to be completely out of Afghanistan by the end of this year.

Canada was part of the second Iraq war also. Chrétien was ready to support and participate in GWB's invasion of Iraq, but he wanted the fig leaf of UNSC vote of approval. That did not happen. Yet, Canadian solders were part of the so called coalition of the willing. In fact, according to this CBC News report, one brigadier general Walter Natynczyk, led 10 brigades consisting of more than 35,000 soldiers in Iraq. He was awarded the Meritorious Service Cross for his efforts.

9/11 might not have happened with iraq, i do not know.

I think you want to say Iraq might not have happened but for 9/11, right?

the most rightist canadian political party, the progressive conservatives, are still, in line with the liberal democrats of the usa or left of it.

Well, Canadians have now elected Stephen Harper who will give the Tea-party Republicans a run for their money. If he can have his way he will rip up the Canadian Health Act. I don't know what to make of the Canadians electing this guy PM.

Cheers!

 

[nachi naga]

immgrunts have not yet got into hockey. they still watch cricket.

pls remember the list was prepared by a tambram buddy of mine.

immy grants watch everythang win-win situation.hey what are buddies for hic hic

 

[Nara]

today, the S&P reduced the triple A rating.

Which should result in a big yawn.

This is the same S&P, along with Moody's, manufactured the mortgage crisis, the event that triggered the global economic crisis from which we have still not recovered. They gave triple A rating to some of the worthless financial products cobbled up by the likes of Goldman Sachs.

The main reason for the S&P downgrade is not because of doubt about the US's ability to pay, but the dysfunctional Congress and its inability to act responsibly. The following sentence from S&P announcement captures the essence of the reasons they give for the downgrade.

"The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy."

​

Here is what they say, in the same report about the soundness of the fundamentals.

"Nevertheless, we view the U.S. federal government's other economic, external, and monetary credit attributes, which form the basis for the sovereign rating, as broadly unchanged."

​

(BTW, S&P rates India BBB+, that is 6 levels down from AAA.)

ok, for the first time, the holiest of holy cows has been given a caning. gone is the veneration.

Oh, come on man, caning, hardly. One out of three credit rating agencies moved US Sovereign debt from AAA to AA+ because of political shenanigans in Washington, and you think the U.S. has gone to the dogs .

the raising of the debt ceiling, is not about repayment of debts, but increase it, to pass on to some future generation.

K, I think statements like this invoke emotional response only. Both political parties use a variant of this to score political points.

IMO, the debt problem USA is facing now is overblown. Please see my post #40 for my arguments. I believe this is a problem that will be solved in one way or another in the next 4 to 8 years. The next election is going to be crucial, if the liberals/progressives regain strength a more sensible tax policy will be enacted and the U.S. can merrily slide down from economic preeminence to comfortably wealthy status, you know, like the Canadians .

If the Republicans and conservative Democrats retain their grip, then the welfare state will be ripped up and that will anger the middle-class and the liberals/progressives will come roaring back in a landslide. In the next two election cycles these issues will be settled.

வரவு எட்டணா செலவு பத்தணா கடைசியில் துந்தணா. n'est pas?

In the long run yes, but sometimes we have to go into debt so that we can get to a state of வரவு பத்தணா and increasing and செலவு எட்டணா .

Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

K, perhaps you are conveying something that I am not properly understanding. Whatever may be the Canadian public opinion, the government of Canada has supported all of US misadventures in one way or another.

Canada was one of the very active participants of the first Gulf war. Canadian military was involved in offensive combat operations.

The Afghan war started in October 2001 and Canada sent its troops to Afghanistan in early 2002. At its peak they had more than 2500 soldiers. Over the years more than 150 Canadian military personnel have lost their lives. They are still there, scheduled to be completely out of Afghanistan by the end of this year.

Canada was part of the second Iraq war also. Chrétien was ready to support and participate in GWB's invasion of Iraq, but he wanted the fig leaf of UNSC vote of approval. That did not happen. Yet, Canadian solders were part of the so called coalition of the willing. In fact, according to this CBC News report, one brigadier general Walter Natynczyk, led 10 brigades consisting of more than 35,000 soldiers in Iraq. He was awarded the Meritorious Service Cross for his efforts.


I think you want to say Iraq might not have happened but for 9/11, right?

Well, Canadians have now elected Stephen Harper who will give the Tea-party Republicans a run for their money. If he can have his way he will rip up the Canadian Health Act. I don't know what to make of the Canadians electing this guy PM.

Cheers!

N,

my perception, is that canadians really look at iraq, as a 'dumb war'. they have a little more understanding of the world, and do not think, that the islamic world could be suppressed with one kick in iraq and another in afghanistan.

the canadian government contributed troops, because, there is an obligatory sense of friendship towards the usa. this is a standing army, of which a 1000 were spared at a time. there is no extra expense towards its maintenance, that could not be handled under the current budget.

to do so otherwise, would be a slap in the american face, and no canadian government of today will do that. though we did it, during vietnam.

stephen harper will not dismantle the health care or any other entitlement. pls remember also, that these are all easy to put back, because our prime ministers are absolute, and like JJ/MK can overturn rules at the whim.

something that is bandied about, every now and then, is a visitor fee of $25 flat for each doc visit, with exemptions for those BPL, but even that has not received any voter approval, except in alberta, which is a oil rich province, with no local taxes.

fortunately, stephen still has, i think a sense of decency and perspective enough to know, that if he does something that strays too far from the canadian centre, he will receive a solid kick in the next elections, everywhere outside of alberta.

iraq or afghanistan, is not in everyday newspaper radar or headlines. unlike in usa, where there is a huge investment in these places. the canadian parliament passed an act that all canadian combat forces must be out by 2011 i think. realistically speaking many will remain, but not in numbers to attract public attention. after all, when one joins the army, getting killed is part of the risk you take, right?

as long as that attitude remains, and you dont see an whole lot of widows weeping, canada will be iraq unobtrusively. on the whole, there is no stomach for fighting among the whites, especially from quebec.

i do not see canada moving anywhere from where it is now, socially. infact, the federal and provincial govts, are now talking, about actually increasing the government pension, to supplement the current format, because the companies are going towards defined contribution model or many canadians do not have any pension plan at all other than our old age security. atleast these are thoughts in the right direction. i think.

 

[zebra16]

Which should result in a big yawn.

They gave triple A rating to some of the worthless financial products cobbled up by the likes of Goldman Sachs.

Sri Nara Sir,

I am always on your side if you want to throw the GS to wolves. Please be free to expose the manipulations by this great investment banker.

Regards,

narayan

 

[kunjuppu]

nara ,

to your post #56,

two points:

in 2008 obama & the democrats had all the majority for 2 years. they were not able to do much. i personally do not think, these liberals or social conscious folks will be able to do much in the future either.

the structure of the usa govt with its split responsibilities and divsions between the house, senate and white house, makes any radical long needed surgery almost impossible. too much pork barrel has gone in the past to make these entrenched, and now impossible to stop. eg tobacco farmers of the carolinas and such; if one group goes, another comes like now the corn farmers and ethanol subsidy.

it is good to predict a 10 anna income, 8 anna expense. the usa has not seen that since clinton left. even then, there was a huge debt which clinton did not attempt to crack. today the usa has a huger debt, and less tax base. i agree things may happen which will beat black predictions. i hope so. but till such things take place, the fact is, that the usa has unprecedented $ debt, taking in 2/3 of every cent that it spends.

if it is forced to balance the budget, we can look at another california like scenario. then, what is going to bring down the system, will be the huge federal pension and pension related health obligations of the federal employees. just like you see in california and many small towns in the usa.

i sum it up: living beyond your means.

 

[kunjuppu]

dear public,

i do not know about india, but here in canada, every week, i get letters in the mail.

offers of free credit card, with no interest payments for the first 6 months, and offer to pay off other debts with the new card, which initially will have no or 2% for 6 months, and balloon to 26% after that.

now, credit card companies are not there for charity. also, they do not like clients, who use the cards, and at the end of the month, pay the balance in full. they only love clients, who rack up a huge bill, and pay off the interest regularly. and some capital, to ensure their credit worthiness.

the banks call me up. offer to give me money to upgrade my house (which needs no upgrade); the other day i received a letter: borrow from xyz bank and have a great holiday in europe this summer.!!!!

there are, unfortunately, many gullible people in canada, who believe the bank or the credit companies, enjoy now, and suffer later.

fortunately, there are strict laws, that ensure that not much money is lent. still due to historical low interest rates, people have been buying million dollar houses, with about 200,000 downpayment with 800,000 mortgage. all it takes is for the interest rate to go up by 1% for half of these guys to be unable to pay their mortgage and declare bankruptcy.

there is constant talk of morality of the banks, and we have CEOs openly talk about it. the only snag to this, is that if one bank shows self restraint, the others wont and there are a huge number of usa and foreign banks who want to increase the market share. it is a tough situation, to balance greed with ethics. and good money sense, which the people appear to drop at the slightest hint of a windfall profit.

sad.

 

[Nara]

....I am always on your side if you want to throw the GS to wolves.

narayan sir, GS is the true owner of the U.S. government. U.S. government is of GS, by GS, for GS.

Cheers!

 

[DrBarani]

How many of you know the cow story?

-You have two cows. The socialist takes both of them away and gives you milk.

-You have two cows. The Capitalist takes them both away as taxes, borrows two more cows in your credit card, clones sixteen more cows in federal reserve, and with this total of 98 cows, they wage wars. Welcome to America!

That is the real story about America and its love affair for government spending. They wage wars all over the planet, set up military bases, spend $700 billion on an unproductive military, and then they pretend like they are doing something great. Putin is right - America is a parasite on global economy.

The debt is an albatross around the necks of the next several generations. It is criminal to make indentured servants out of people who aren't even born yet.

It is good that S&P downgraded the rating. Just a small beginning of the end of that empire. It may be symbolic but it may be the required trip wire.

 

[ShivKC]

sh.KJ,im bored of those economic talks..

here i go in my way exploring canada.

my uncle living in maples-land told me that mosquitoes out there will have landing lights and the most effective mosquito repellent is a shot gun! is it true?

u have more miles on your snow blower than your car and driving is better in the winter because the potholes are filled in with snow

know which leaves make good toilet paper!! maple?

 

[C RAVI]

How many of you know the cow story?

-You have two cows. The socialist takes both of them away and gives you milk.

-You have two cows. The Capitalist takes them both away as taxes, borrows two more cows in your credit card, clones sixteen more cows in federal reserve, and with this total of 98 cows, they wage wars. Welcome to America!

That is the real story about America and its love affair for government spending. They wage wars all over the planet, set up military bases, spend $700 billion on an unproductive military, and then they pretend like they are doing something great. Putin is right - America is a parasite on global economy.

The debt is an albatross around the necks of the next several generations. It is criminal to make indentured servants out of people who aren't even born yet.

It is good that S&P downgraded the rating. Just a small beginning of the end of that empire. It may be symbolic but it may be the required trip wire.

Not too far to grant America's credit worthiness with AA- rating, by S&P.....

 

[biswa]

.
It is good that S&P downgraded the rating. Just a small beginning of the end of that empire. It may be symbolic but it may be the required trip wire.

You know I was going to chalk this one up as a victory for your economic theories. I was going to suggest, that if you did believe in the lack of credit worthiness of America, you could put your money where your mouth is, and short US treasuries. That way, not only would you be right, but you would be rich as well.

But then again, for your sake, I hope you didn't do that, because if you did, you would have lost money as treasuries have actually risen in price since the downgrade.

So it looks like you can either be right, or be rich but not both. Forgive my ignorance: if you are already rich, please substitute the word richer.

Full disclaimer: I own all sorts of govt and corporate debt, US, Europe, Russia, India etc, so no particular bias here.

 

[biswa]

Canada debt downgraded (historical)

Since this thread is about Canada, not the US, I thought I would post the story about Canada's historical debt downgrade: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/193578/20110806/us-debt-downgrade-s-p-aaa-canada.htm

However this doesn't seem to have been a big deal, it is as much of a paradise as ever as Mr K says.

 

[Nara]

...., you could put your money where your mouth is, and short US treasuries. That way, not only would you be right, but you would be rich as well.

But then again, for your sake, I hope you didn't do that, because if you did, you would have lost money as treasuries have actually risen in price since the downgrade..

biswa, you hit the nail on its head. A weekend after S&P, in its infinite "wisdom", downgraded US sovereign debt, after making a 2 trillion $ arithmetic error, the market spoke loud and clear, it rushed head long into buying up US Treasury Bonds. LA Times put it as follows:

Investors piled out of stocks and into a few "safe havens," such as gold and Treasury bonds. The appetite for Treasury bonds suggests that the Standard & Poor's downgrade has not shaken investors' faith in U.S. bonds.

​

In the first and a single day after the downgrade, the yield on 10-year US Treasury bonds went down to 2.34% from 2.56% late Friday, says CNN Money.

Prognosticators are dime a dozen, talk is cheap, as they say in the high and mighty circles of investment geniuses, money talks and bull *&#% walks.

Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

http://www.firstpost.com/economy/deven-sharma-the-indian-who-brought-us-to-its-knees-56120.html

i believe deven sharma is a member of this forum, under an alias

 

[Nara]

....i believe deven sharma is a member of this forum, under an alias

Really? Is it Sharma-61? Even so, in the tradition of the grand old know-it-all Nakkeeran, நெற்றிக் கண் திறந்தாலும் குற்றம் குற்றமே.

If he is really member of our forum I hope he will explain why S&P gave AAA rating to some of the worthless mortgage backed securities. But I am not going to hold my breath.

Cheers!

 

[biswa]

If he is really member of our forum I hope he will explain why S&P gave AAA rating to some of the worthless mortgage backed securities. But I am not going to hold my breath.
Cheers!

Bingo, Mr. Nara! Both S&P and Moody have been discredited. Their word is not gospel regarding US debt, or even Russian debt.

 

[biswa]

Putin is right - America is a parasite on global economy.

Really Dr. Barani, I will be the first person to agree with you about the pernicious effects of debt. The less debt the better. Other than a regular mortgage, I personally hold no debt at all. I will be the happiest if the US govt winds down all the foreign wars.

But let us not stoop to quoting Comrade Putin the monster to justify anything at all. What next, quotes from Stalin the Butcher?

 

[Nara]

Bingo, Mr. Nara! Both S&P and Moody have been discredited. Their word is not gospel regarding US debt, or even Russian debt.

Biswa, S&P ratings have no credibility whatsoever. S&P downgraded Japan and it did not have any effect on Japan's ability to borrow at rates like 1%. Now, Japan, with national debt at around 200% GDP enjoys AAA from S&P, yet they see fit USA debt is more risky.

BTW, Moody's still thinks US debit is AAA -- for whatever it is worth --, why, a NY Times blogger says, just an excerpt:

• The unparalleled diversity and size of the U.S. economy
  
• its long record of relatively solid economic growth, based on both demographics and productivity.
• Even if the short-term economic outlook exhibits some weakness, the long term remains favorable
• The global role of the dollar, which underpins continued demand for U.S. dollar assets,
• the U.S. government can support higher debt levels than other governments

IMO, S&P brand is permanently damaged.

Cheers!

 

[DrBarani]

Really Dr. Barani, I will be the first person to agree with you about the pernicious effects of debt. The less debt the better. Other than a regular mortgage, I personally hold no debt at all. I will be the happiest if the US govt winds down all the foreign wars.

But let us not stoop to quoting Comrade Putin the monster to justify anything at all. What next, quotes from Stalin the Butcher?

Comrade Putin reduced Russia's debt by 90% in ten years. May be the Capitalist Obamas better learn from Comrade Putin, the smart Economist.

When you have friends like Democrats and Republicans, you won't need imaginary enemies like Comrades.

 

[DrBarani]

Clearly people are emotional about S&P downgrading US Government rating, but such emotions should not be the cause for spreading LIES about S&P and Japan.

S&P Rating of Japan is AA Minus, having downgraded Japan MULTIPLE Times in the past. This, notwithstanding the fact that...

Japan is surviving with high sovereign debt because people have saved considerable amount in banks for retirement and the retail debt is rather low. This is unlike the situation in US. Americans hardly have any savings in their banks. The retail and commercial debt are around $44 trillion in US.

 

[tbs]

hi sayeen sir
thank u so much...nice to hear tamil speach in canadian parliament......this is first tamil speach in canada....i was in OTTAWA....

i know the candian parleament.....i attended diwali function there....its really proud to srilankan tamil....even indian tamil origins

are there... but no guts to talk tamil in canadian parliament....still in indian parliament....how many MP's talk in tamil? its

really very minimum....we tamils have to learn many things from srilankan tamils brothers..... KUDOS TO NDP.....my 2 cents...

regards
tbs