Poonam Pandey

[kunjuppu]

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In the 1960s when india was wallowing in the curves of that time ‘dream girl’ hema malini, there arose a phenomenon in the west called twiggy. I never bothered about her real name, but to the world she was twiggy, ie made up from a bundle of twigs – all angular, no shape and large expressive eyes.

Sad to say, the west has moved away from the curves of marylin Monroe and bette davis, to twiggy and her clones; and we too in india have done the same in the past 50 years. Today the epitome of bollywood beauty, is the fair skinned, half anglo half indopak Katrina kaif (aka sheela ka jawani) or the ‘munni’ malaika arora khan.

But there is hope for the rubenesque (ie the well curved ones). Yet.

To rise like phoenix out of the ashes, is our own pattar, vidya balan. My favourite, she is today considered a thinking person’s actor. It proves that one need not necessarily be skinny to make it in the glamour world. I have seen her in parineeta, pa, ishqiya, Jessica lal and her performance is top notch by all international standards.

Not the hysteric weepy eyed roles a la meena kumari for our vidya. She handles the challenge of portraying bharathiar's ‘pudhumai penn’ to the hilt. And earns a gold crown each time.

Poonam Pandey belongs to the twiggy dynasty (we have our rep there in padma lakshmi – us tambrams do give everyone a run for their money in all fields).

I have seen pix of poonam, in various states of clothing or unclothing, and find her admirably a thing of beauty and I agree , that poonam too would qualify, in my opinion, to be ‘A woman/maiden in the acme of her beauty is IMO something of nature's/God's marvels’.

There are many roads to goddom as I have recently found. If this times of india newsitem is to be believed.

Now, Munni and Sheela make bhajans rock - Times Of India

in my teens, dum maro dum, was just what it meant. Today, I am pleased to find, that it might well be a bhajan. Nothing better a sight than, to see our cross dressed overweight trambram Krishna lovers swinging to the beat of dum maro dum. All in the name of god, ofcourse.

 

[sravna]

Smt Renuka, Shri Raju,

I don't think, nor do I claim, that I have reached any plateau or stage as stated. But I find, from what little I could read and learn about the six darsanas including advaita, that advaita is mere வாய்ப்பந்தல்; Since Sankara had very great debating skills, he has been able to spread a veil of great philosophical heights for his advaitam, which has many hollows in it and is essentially buddhism in a new attractive package. Not for nothing was Sankara called pracchannabauddha, by some scholars. Since his was probably the first philosophy which East India Company's indologists came into contact with in Bengal, and since they apparently found a type of "monism" in it, as opposed to the pantheism of the vedas, the europeans were more attracted to it; they thought that with their monotheistic religion, they would be able to relate more to advaita.

Most religions give a recipe for heaven or liberation, but no verifiable warranty card, except tall claims from people who have an axe to grind, just as we find in tele-marketing of products by paid models. I believe that there is some power which causes this phenomenon called "life" - This power is unknown to Man - and it cannot be known or experienced in any manner whatsoever with the ability given by this life.

Dear Shri Sangom,

As a person whose knowledge and opinions, I think, are widely respected in this forum and also being an elderly person, you are someone whose opinions are taken note of seriously. Therefore to just make a series of assertions which you have made on one of the most respected figures in Indian philosophy seems to me careless unless you have something new or original to disprove his philosophy.

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Raju Sir said (To Sow. Renukakarthikeyan)

Dear Renuka,
What is described by Sangom Sir is also a stage which is crossed in course of time as you keep marching in your spiritual journey. The problem is that at each such plateu we come to think that we have finally arrived at the truth. After some time as we put this behind and march further we ourselves wonder how inadequate we were to understand the true state of affairs.

If my words sound hollow or like pure Afrikaans, please march on. You may remember them sometime later.

Sow.Renukakarthikeyan replied -

Dear Sir ,
u are right..none of us have arrived anywhere yet..otherwise we wont be typing this here...

Sow.Renukakarthikeyan,

Every single member in this forum has arrived some where... either few steps or leaps and bounds from the state of ignorance, depending upon each induvidual's effort, back ground, education, exposure etc.

Most Indians are fortunate to have exposed to various philosophies there by have an opportunity to 'think'. Some of us 'think' out side the square; some of us have no square around them at all. I am so glad, such exposures are freely available to all and sundries today, which was restricted in the past.

Few weeks ago someone asked me about my retirement plan.. when I was showing up, the discussion was about the expected amount of money required to retire.... When I said I don't need any money to retire, since I was planning to become a sanyasi, none of them could comprehend it. But it is so easy for us.... my children have no problem understanding such a wish.

Like Sri.Raju said, we will be 'realising' new things as we march along. We will always get somewhere all the time. Either we learn from experiences or we learn from others and expanding our horizons of thinking.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Kunjuppu said (amoung other things) -

In the 1960s when india was wallowing in the curves of that time ‘dream girl’ hema malini, there arose a phenomenon in the west called twiggy.

Sri.Kunjuppu sir,

Hema malini was indeed the 'dream girl' of that time. But, in my opinion, there were other beauties too......

There was one girl who was a beauty, top notch (yet to see someone of that calibre; she was my previous generation, of course). I am talking about Padmini. Just a beauty...

YouTube - Aadatha Manamum Undo - M G Ramachandran & Padmini - Mannadhi Mannan

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

Sangom Sir,

Your post above is very nice. I feel you have come to this stage because your children are settled and possibly you do not have much worries (i maybe wrong though). Those who are young and have worries may find it difficult to let go of praying since praying is like a comfort-zone that can be addictive. A place where they feel they are secure. Hopefully i will also become like you after my children are settlled and am free to explore inside my self.

Happy,

You are correct partly, to the extent that till about 50 years or so, we are anxious about the well-being of our children who are under our complete care and might not have become mature enough to decide for themselves. But usually by the time we cross 50, our children would have grown to be 18 or even more. Today, children start asserting themselves from that age and, as parents and caretakers, our role becomes very limited, compared to what it was for our parents. Till that time, I agree that all of us will require some prop of psychological nature. Religion, belief in deities, "nerchais", godmen, gurujis and ever so many such props are depended upon till then especially if we don't have our parents, in-laws or elders living with us.

You are wrong in your presumption that I have left (discarded) the god belief in a way similar to what we do to curry leaves (karuvEppilai maathiri thookki pOTTuDarathu). Actually, my decision came, (to share a personal matter), it was after a family crisis. When I found that after the most fervent prayers to and worship of God for nearly two years to avert the tragedy, when I found there was no sign of any improvement that I gave up worship and made peace with myself. This incident made me to start thinking about the god concept, religion, karma and so on. I read many books also. Ultimately, I came to the above conclusion. So mine is not a case exemplifying the Malayalam proverb,"pAlam kaDakkunnOLam nArAyaNa, pAlam kaDannAl pinne poorAyaNa !" (chant nArAyaNa till you cross the (rickety) bridge; once you have crossed it, just forget him - say poorAyaNa).

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,

As a person whose knowledge and opinions, I think, are widely respected in this forum and also being an elderly person, you are someone whose opinions are taken note of seriously. Therefore to just make a series of assertions which you have made on one of the most respected figures in Indian philosophy seems to me careless unless you have something new or original to disprove his philosophy.

Shri Sravna,

I have said that Adi Sankara had great debating abilities. The epithet "pracchannabauddha" is not coined by me; it is seen in many books. And that very thing means what I said subsequently, viz., "advaitam, which has many hollows in it and is essentially buddhism in a new attractive package". Hence I have only reproduced here what others have opined. I have already said whatever I have to say in showing the weaknesses of the advaita theory in this thread "Advaita and its fallacies".

Thank you very much for the good words you have for me.

 

[renuka]

I had read before somewhere about an African American sports man who died of AIDS becos of unscreened blood transfusion( i cant remember his name unfortunately).
He was dying of AIDS (even though it was not his fault) and he always had a smile on his face.
Some one asked him.."Aren't U angry with God? Cos u had lead a good life and u got AIDS for no fault of yours?"

To which he replied " when something bad happens ...people ask GOD!!! Why me!!! do I deserve this?" but when something good happens to us none of us ask God..GOD!!! Why me? do i deserve this?"

 

[kunjuppu]

renu,

it was arthur ashe, the tennis player.

 

[renuka]

Thanks Kunjuppu Ji..

 

[sangom]

I had read before somewhere about an African American sports man who died of AIDS becos of unscreened blood transfusion( i cant remember his name unfortunately).
He was dying of AIDS (even though it was not his fault) and he always had a smile on his face.
Some one asked him.."Aren't U angry with God? Cos u had lead a good life and u got AIDS for no fault of yours?"

To which he replied " when something bad happens ...people ask GOD!!! Why me!!! do I deserve this?" but when something good happens to us none of us ask God..GOD!!! Why me? do i deserve this?"

Suppose one is able not to ask either?

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Shri.Kunjuppu,
I feel disappointed when you have forgotten my matinee idol of 1950 and 1960 who arrived on the scene before Hemamalini.If Raj kapoor had been alive today,he also would have felt sad that you forgot to mention the name of Vyjayanthimala Bali.Of course he would be thanking you for mentioning his discovery'Dream Girl' Hemamalini

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Sangom said

Suppose one is able not to ask either?

Sri.Sangom sir,

It takes a lot to get there. Just accepting the life as it comes takes a lot of effort. But, it is achievable. When we achieve such a state through satisfied life, then we are indeed got off easy. The time had not bothered to test us; but, most people have not learned to get the satisfaction. But, most persons learn to accept life through not so very nice experiences. Such acceptances are based on bitter feelings.

such a short reply is packed with philosophies. I bow my head in respect to you, sir.

Cheers!

 

[biswa]

Not to derail the discussion too much, but it seems that all the objets d'beauty everybody is mentioning ala Hema Malini, Vyjayanthimala or even Poonam Pandey have this standard Caucasoid white-skinned look preferred by most. Why not praise women with a distinctly dark-skinned Indian look, such as Priyamani (who also appropriately (for this forum) happens to be an Iyer Brahmin)?

 

[renuka]

Suppose one is able not to ask either?

well your question has been answered in Dwapara Yuga:
Sukha Dukhe Same Kritva Labhaa labhou Jayaa jayou

 

[renuka]

Hema Malini,Vyjanthimala or Poonam Pandey are distinctly Indian looking and surely dont have western types of looks.
Caucasian is a group of races that comes with the most varied skin colors from the fairest blond blue eyed Northern Europian to the darkest skinned anyone in the Indian subcontinent.
anyway Poonam Pandey is known as the dusky model..she is not fair skinned and guys you left out the hottest woman of the lots..Rekha Gemini Ganesan..No one comes close to her in beauty,personality,sex appeal and attitude.
She never had the "homely" look like all the yesteryear aunties.
She should have been the dream girl and not slightly plump Hema Malini.

 

[Raghy]

well your question has been answered in Dwapara Yuga:
Sukha Dukhe Same Kritva Labhaa labhou Jayaa jayou

Sow.Renukakarthikeyan,

Greetings. I beg to differ. When Sri.Sangom said "Suppose one is able not to ask either?", I don't think it implies looking at pleasure and difficulties equally (I did not understand the whole sanskrit text. I could be wrong altogether. If that is so, kindly bear with me). When someone is not bothered by the difficulties thrown at them; who can take it in their stride. May be that's what is said by you too!

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

Sow.Renukakarthikeyan,

Greetings. I beg to differ. When Sri.Sangom said "Suppose one is able not to ask either?", I don't think it implies looking at pleasure and difficulties equally (I did not understand the whole sanskrit text. I could be wrong altogether. If that is so, kindly bear with me). When someone is not bothered by the difficulties thrown at them; who can take it in their stride. May be that's what is said by you too!

Cheers!

Dear Shri Raghy,

I was just keeping quiet. But your doubt prompts me to write my view about the quote.

It is from Bhagavd Geeta. I give below two consecutive verses, the second containing the quote.

हतॊ वा प्राप्स्यसि स्वर्गं जित्वा वा भोक्ष्यसे महीम् ।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चय: ॥ भ. गी. २-३७

सुख दु:खे समे कृत्वा लाभालाभौ जयाजयौ ।
ततो युद्धाय युज्यस्व नैवं पापमवाप्स्यसि ॥ २-३८

hato vā prāpsyasi svargaṃ jitvā vā bhokṣyase mahīm |
tasmāduttiṣṭha kaunteya yuddhāya kṛtaniścaya: || bha. gī. 2-37

sukha du:khe same kṛtvā lābhālābhau jayājayau |
tato yuddhāya yujyasva naivaṃ pāpamavāpsyasi || 2-38

The approximate meaning of the verses will be :—
If you get killed (in the war) you are assued of (veera) swargam; if you win and live you will enjoy the luxuries of royalty. (The third option viz., living after being defeated, did not arise probably because every one was expected to fight to the last.) Therefore, get up O, son of Kunthi, after making a resolve to fight. 2-37

After making sukham and du:kham, gain and loss (in the war). victory and defeat as equal (in your mind) join the war; no paapam will then be earned by you. 2-38

The quote "sukha du:khe same kṛtvā lābhālābhau jayājayau" is apt in supporting my remark. But what I am now trying to point out is that this advice was given to Arjuna after the previous verse which is in effect "Heads you win, tail I lose" type of assurance. Again, in 2-38 Krishna once again assures Arjuna, that if you do such-and-such, no sin will be earned by you. Under such blanket insurance cover what more protection would one require to fight it out? But I am not impressed by Krishna, nor his advice and am following my path as directed by my "light" (á la "Lead Kindly Light").

 

[renuka]

Sow.Renukakarthikeyan,

Greetings. I beg to differ. When Sri.Sangom said "Suppose one is able not to ask either?", I don't think it implies looking at pleasure and difficulties equally (I did not understand the whole sanskrit text. I could be wrong altogether. If that is so, kindly bear with me). When someone is not bothered by the difficulties thrown at them;
who can take it in their stride. May be that's what is said by you too!

Cheers!

Yes you are right..Equiposed in all situations ..thats what i meant.
See technically any situation registers a thought wave in our brain..be it Sukha or Dukha and thats where Viveka comes in to apply principles of Same Krtva.
We all think in any situation and act accordingly..the wise take in in their stride.

 

[Raghy]

Sow.Renukakarthikeyan,

Thank you.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Sangom sir said -

.......Under such blanket insurance cover what more protection would one require to fight it out? But I am not impressed by Krishna, nor his advice and am following my path as directed by my "light" (á la "Lead Kindly Light").

Greetings Sir. Thank you for the explanations.

I heard an interesting explanation. Why Arjuna was the recipent of Baghavat Gita; why not Dharma? Why not 'Bheema'?

I was told .... Bheema was very short tempered. Most often than not, he acted on something and wondered about the pros and cons later. He was a bit thick headed. If he decided not to fight, Krishna could be preaching him Gita until the second coming, he would not have listened; if he decided to fight, There wouldn't have been any need for Krishna to even open his mouth.

Dharma knew all along what was happening. He would not step away from Dharmic path; Krishna would be wasting his time... Dharma would not have done anything if he thought it was not as per Dharma. (But the war did not proceed in that fashion though).

When you say you would have acted directed by 'your light', then you would not need any preaching. That is in normal circumstances. In an extremely stressful emergency, things change; 'our light' does not seem to guide us at times at such emergencies. any one or more of the six undesired qualities ( kama, krodha, lobha, moha, madha, madhsarya) can block the 'light of wisdom'.

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

dear Raghy sir,

I read before that Yudhisthira was not chosen for the Gita cos he lacked foresight.
He acted per Dharma most of the while....but was too impulsive and regretted his actions later.
Arjuna had Viveka..in other words Yudhisthira was more text book oriented.Arjuna had more deducing capacity.

For example the whole gambling episode where technically he could not put Draupadi as a stake since he had lost himself first and the famous "Ashwattama the elephant is dead".

But i wont really say that the war was not per Dharma ,The Lord knows Sanathana Dharma better than us mortals..Dont forget...

Dharma Samthaapanaarthaaya Sambhavaami Yuge Yuge..

 

[biswa]

From Poonam Pandey to Bhagavat Gita: now surely we have taken things too far.

The only thing I can think of connecting the two is the fortitude of women and the extraordinary power they hold over men. Clearly they don't call men the weaker sex for nothing! :-D

 

[kunjuppu]

biswa,

this has nothing to do with the 'weaker sex'.

it is to do with the continuum of things. everything in this world is related.

the members of this forum are of such high calibre, that it is but natural progression to move on from poonam to parthasarathi. had she been given an opportunity, i am quite confident that poonam, having mastered the skills of driving in the laneways and biways of mumbai, would have had no problem steering arjuna's chariot at kurukshetra. on the other hand, i am not so sure about Lord Krishna's ability re mumbai roads

btw there is a move afoot, to form a 'fellows of the forum' mini group. it will be modelled after the harvard fellows. i would swear by the hair of my chinny chin chin, that 'fellows' here is gender neutral.

from what i gather, membership, though selective, is still open.

 

[Raghy]

dear Raghy sir,

I read before that Yudhisthira was not chosen for the Gita cos he lacked foresight.
He acted per Dharma most of the while....but was too impulsive and regretted his actions later.
Arjuna had Viveka..in other words Yudhisthira was more text book oriented.Arjuna had more deducing capacity.

For example the whole gambling episode where technically he could not put Draupadi as a stake since he had lost himself first and the famous "Ashwattama the elephant is dead".

But i wont really say that the war was not per Dharma ,The Lord knows Sanathana Dharma better than us mortals..Dont forget...

Dharma Samthaapanaarthaaya Sambhavaami Yuge Yuge..

Sow.Renukakarthikeyan,

Greetings. When I mentioned about the choices, I forgot to add why Arjuna was selected. (I just mentioned, as I heard, why Yudhishtra and Bheema were not selected).

With due respect to what you have mentioned, I am presenting here, what I was told.....

We, the common persons are represented by Arjuna. Most of us neither have the wisdom of Yudhishtra, nor act on impulse like Bheema. Hopefully, most of us interested in learning although our minds may not be very clear all the time. Our minds are covered with ignorance and cofusion, which can be removed by knowledge. Arjuna was a worthy student, so are we if we seek knowledge. (Well, that's what I heard; from a general view, such explanations do not seem to be too far out).

Well, there are so many opinions, so many explanations... Nice to see various opinions.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

From Poonam Pandey to Bhagavat Gita: now surely we have taken things too far.

The only thing I can think of connecting the two is the fortitude of women and the extraordinary power they hold over men. Clearly they don't call men the weaker sex for nothing! :-D

Women have more power at all times. I could be 150% correct in my assertion on a particular matter; but, if my wife thinks differently, then she is right. I don't know if men are 'weaker sex'; but I know, most men are 'weak when it comes to sex'. By the way, it is interesting to analyse 'Bhagavat Gita' from a woman's point of view.

Comimg back to the topic, if any group opposes Poonam Pandey from posing nude if she wished to do so, such groups are not very civilised. Such groups should act on their behalf only; they should not try to pose as the guardians of a religion or caste. Nudity is not taboo in Hinduism; even sexual expressions are not as evidenced from Khajuraho.

Cheers!