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Progression or Erosion of Brahmin Ethos?

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I received this in an e-mail from a friend. I can easily identify with the sentiment.

Please note – The Self, Parents, Grand-parents are representative
Brahmin characters of 3 generations below.


It does not reflect ME or my predecessors entirely.


WITH MALICE TOWARDS NONE.....


· My great grand-father never went to coffee hotel. My
grand-father secretly went to the coffee hotel. My father openly went
to hotel on need basis. I go to hotel everyday for survival; sometimes
to Velu military hotel too! So what?


· My great grand-father never tasted coffee. My grand-father
started having coffee and devised a style for Kumbakonam coffee. My
father has 4 cups a day and gets head-ache (read as addiction to
caffeine) if he misses the turns. He takes tea too. I take all forms
of drinks now! So what?


· My great grand-father piously did 3 times Sandhi. My
grand-father at least did once a day, and sometimes more than that. My
father rarely did Gayatri. But, catches up once a day Sandyavandhanam,
after retirement. I don’t know to do Sandyavandhanam. So what?


· My grand-father had no hesitations in saying “Abhivadhayae”
in public when he saw elders. My father knew it, but never displayed
it as obedience to elders, in public. Probably, he found that practice
embarrassing. I neither know Abhivadhayae, nor care about it! So what?


· When Kingdoms existed, probably Royal families endorsed
Brahmins and supported them. My great grand-father either was ringing
bell in one of the sanctum-sanctorum or helping the Brahmin and Royal
community conduct Hindu rituals. Today, Kingdom doesn’t exist and
Brahmins rendering such service are rare; those who render such
service do it for a big fee. So what?


· Today’s Sastrigal don’t do Sandhi regularly and do not
follow Brahminical norms. They treat their work as job and recite &
conduct rituals and go; sometimes cut it short, if they know, we don’t
know! They treat their appearance, with small tuft of late, as their
dress code only and carry no sanctity. They eat in hotels and chew
paan/gutka. Some are regulars in TASMAC shops too. This is being
treated now as a profession and not service. So what? I have
hesitation in calling them and even if I do, have reservations in
falling at their feet. So what?


· My great grand-father was sporting a tuft and shaved his
beard clean. My grand-father removed the tuft and sported a
cropped-hair but still was clean shaven. My father sported a moustache
with a loose cut during his younger days. I sport a Goatee and
sometimes a full beard; I color my hair black routinely. Some of those
bald headed Brahmins, sport a wig even. So what?


· My grand-mother showed perfect obedience to her in-laws,
despite her in-laws and naathanaar tortures. My mother showed little
restraint and moved away decade later. My wife and I started our
family as “Thani kudithanam” from Day 1. When I search alliance for my
son, I will tell them openly during engagement, to move away after
marriage. I will start looking for an old-age home for myself. I know,
what is sent, comes back!


· My father prostrated without hesitations to elders. I do it
when insisted by my parents. My children will never do it. So what?


· When my parents come to my home, they are not welcomed.
Years later, when they departed, my wife asked me to observe
Mahaalayapaksha for Pitrus, as we think that our good place in heaven
is linked to it! So what? So will my son and daughter or may not be
too.. So what?


· My grand-parents kept ancestral names to my father. My
father kept my name as Suresh, Ramesh, Mahesh etc for fancy. I keep my
wards name as Akil, Nikil, Tejas, Shreyas etc for easy pronunciation
and corporate appeal. My son will keep his children’s name as
Bob-balsu, Sherin Shriya, Tony Tarun, Mohd Mahesh for universal appeal
depending on whether he is in USA/Europe or Middle-east. So what?


· My Children dislike using words like “Avaa, Ivaa, Aathukku,
Poraelaa, Varaelaa, Jalam / Thootham, etc.” and they shifted to
non-brahminical language like “Veedu, Thanni, Poriyal etc”. So what?


· We don’t like kids addressing us as Maamaa/Mami etc.
Uncle/Aunty sounds better to us. Most of this generation don’t want to
use words like Authukaarar/Aathukaari (not regularly, as a rare quote
too). We don’t know the meaning of Orpudi, naathanaar, Shuddagarr etc.
So what?


· My great grand-mother never uttered my great grand-father’s
name. My grand-mother sometimes called my grand-father as “Indha
Brahmanan” during distress. My mother had no hesitation in telling my
father’s name but called him “Vaango, Pongo”. My wife calls me by name
and “vaada, podaa” more to prove some point than a necessity. So what?


· The age difference between Brahmin couples has narrowed down
since ages. I also see some marriages where the boy is younger than
the girl. So what?


· Marriages were for the keeps during my grand-parent’s times.
My father’s days, one or two marriages ended up in divorce and they
were treated as social out-caste. Today, if slightly provoked, people
go to family courts. My son and daughter may go for pre-nuptial
agreement and courtships. So what?


· Brahmin Society pushed my grand-father to the city for
survival. It pushed my father to other states in India. Society pushed
me outside the country and told me to go to the “U.S.A”. If I did not,
the Brahmin society ridiculed me as incompetent. My son and daughter
wants to stay in the “U.S.A” and most likely will get me a “Durai or
Durasaani” as Mappilai or Maatuponnu. So what?


· My great grand-father never ate in a marriage hall as the
food was prepared by a parjaaragun. My grand-father ate, but my
grand-mother stayed away and prepared her food in “kumutti-aduppu”
along with few others of her age and ate “madi saappadu”. My father
ate in Brahmin and non-Brahmin marriages but stayed Vegetarian. I eat
in all marriages and don’t hesitate to eat “all” types of food
outside! My son would prepare non-veg at home. So what?


· My grand-mother strictly followed madi and aachaara
(Yechall, Patthhu etc). She will ask me to help her to pull out one of
the madi saree from the Kodi with a stick and give it to her (on the
stick) after her bath. My mother knew such practices but never
followed. My wife does not know it. So what?


· My grand-mother stayed in kollaipuram with insects bites,
scary thoughts, weird sounds during her menses period. People cruelly
sent her to the backyard, 3 days a month. My mother was inside the
house in the city but was in a different room. My wife and I live in
apartment and stay side-by-side all the days. So what?


· My grand-father was respected as “Iyeru” by kudiyanavan. My
father was ignored by them as Kudiyanavan’s children started studying.
I studied and work with some of them. When I was young, they made fun
of me as “Iyeru dei”. And teased me and my language. I never reacted
to them; I just bent my head when such things happened. My son is not
and will not be aware of such changes and differences. So what?


· My grand-father married the girl, whom my great grand-father
pointed (and the girl did the same too on her side). He or she had no
choice. My father had the option to see the girls that my grand-father
showed. I selected my wife from matrimony sites; the families not
known to each other in any ways. My son and daughter will select
partner from Coffee shop, DATING sites and courtship. So what?


· Today most Brahmin family (or their cousins) has some
non-Brahmin daughter or son-in-law. Tomorrow, we may start selecting
boy and girl from other communities too. So what?


· My great grand-father went to Kaasi, learnt Vedas and
carried out Purohitham as his profession or brahminical service. He
was living in penury, with kings not there to support such people!
Brahmin society made fun of him as “Yezhai Sastry”. My grand-father
took up government job and my father became a graduate and worked
for a private firm. I did B.Tech & MBA and work for a Global MNC. We
have moved away from the laid out Brahminical norms slowly and
steadily through generations. So what?


Today, all of us call ourselves as “Traditional, Conservative but yet
Modern upbringing”, especially when searching for alliances. I don’t
know what exactly this means. But, I think, this is an inference of
the above summary. If it is, I am one among them too.


I see quite a few elders (must be retired Senior bankers, Government
servants or retired from MNC and definitely not true Sastrigal)
advising youngsters not to go after money but to tread in Brahminical
path. With due respects to them, I see lots of hypocrisy in their
statements. They played the role described as a Father in the previous
summary. I would ask all the elders to take the quote from poet
Kannadasan before advising others. In all of Kannadasan’s books
(especially “Arthamulla Indu madham”) he states on the first page, “I
have lived my life, in ways it should not have been lived. I have the
right to tell others, how life should be lived”.


Most often, we advise others what we never practiced. I feel I am not
worthy enough to advise anybody; so are others! Brahmins have changed;
so did our customs and practices. Our Children inherit from us. They
just echo what we did earlier, but more loudly.


I don’t know if such changes are some kind of progression or erosion
of Brahmin values and ethos. It is arguable whether this is good or
bad. Whatever it is, I am part of it and hence a catalyst. If I want
things to change, I need to change first.


Ummacchi Kanna Kuthum.............




*Thank you!*
**
With warm regards
 
Nothing in this world stays the way it has been..the world is subject to change..So what??
 
BTW I feel ancestors of any community had no problems moving with times...it is somehow the new generation that wants to Action,Play,Rewind in Retrograde fashion.

Many communities in the past had left their original location and migrated to various regions and amalgamated..picked up the local language,customs and inter married with the locals too.

BTW Brahmins originally spoke Sanskrit.. Kathayati, Kati Brahmana Idaanim Samskrite Vadati?(tell me..how many Brahmins speak in Sanskrit now)?

That itself shows that every aspect of culture had not always been maintained from time of existence...and as you said.. So What??
 
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Today if you look from the point of view of Brahminism , Brahmin Culture etc there is lot of dilution / decay from the way it was practiced 100 years back but if you look from the point of Sanathana Dharma then we need not fear / worry much as Sanathana Dharma has spread world over wherever Indians /Hindus have moved . Today we see Hindu temples almost in most parts of the world where Hindus have migrated ( except in select Islamic countries ), Yoga has become popular world over ( of course mostly the Physical aspect of Yoga is only popular yet Patanjali's name is very much recognized and alive in the Yoga world ) , Great spiritual institutions like Rama Krishna Mission , Sivananda Mission , Chinmaya Mission , Yogananda's Self Realization Mission, Bhakti Vedanta Mission, Ramana Organization, Sathya Sai Organization etc are spread world over carrying the Message of Yoga , Vedanta , Bhakti etc to Indians as well as Westerners world over there . The movement towards leading a Vegetarian life etc is also becoming popular .
Even traditional Organizations like Kanchi Mutt and Sringeri Mutt have opened their Branches in USA .

There is a renewed interest in learning Sanskrit , Ayurveda , Jyotish , Vaastu Sastra etc by people world over .
Carnatic Music, Indian Classical Dance are also going global and apart from Indians abroad , many Westeners are also taking interest in the same .
Kailsah Yatra , Char Dham Yatra , Visit to Ganges , Shridi , Arunachala etc which was accessible to a select few in the past has now become open to many and we see an increased interest in the same .
So in terms of Spread of Sanathana Dharma we need to be happy but in terms of loss of Brahmanical values and Brahminical way of life we have to accept the fact that it has become highly diluted .
 
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So in terms of Spread of Sanathana Dharma we need to be happy but in terms of loss of Brahmanical values and Brahminical way of life we have to accept the fact that it has become highly diluted .

Dear Sir,

I find this statement contradicting..if there is spread of Sanathana Dharma..that means Vedic lifestyle is on the rise..so why is there a decline in Brahminical Values/Lifestyle??..unless you are viewing Brahminical values as separate or divorced from Sanathana Dharma??
 
Dear Sir,

I find this statement contradicting..if there is spread of Sanathana Dharma..that means Vedic lifestyle is on the rise..so why is there a decline in Brahminical Values/Lifestyle??..unless you are viewing Brahminical values as separate or divorced from Sanathana Dharma??

Renukaji

If you read Kanchi Paramacharya's Voice of God ( all the 7 Volumes ) , you will find answer to this . Whether you like it or not many Traditional Brahmins view Jati separate from Gunas .
 
Tamil Brahmins are a vibrant, adaptive community. They are not like the Amish in U.S. Lot of messages about the good old days. How good were these days? Vast majority of the Brahmins were poor. They were finding it difficult to get two square meals a day. Grinding poverty.

Any amount of glorification of the past can not negate these stark facts. Brahmins were dependent on the hand outs from other communities.


As long as The Brahmins were poor and dependent on the hand outs from other communities, the other communities were happy.


But when the Brahmins got educated and stopped being dependent on the hand outs, the other communities got jealous. The land lord could not tolerate the poor Brahmin's son becoming a Government official.

Tamil Brahmins are what they are today, a prosperous, vibrant community because they adapted with the times. This is in spite of the efforts of the religious leaders to Keep them poor and uneducated.
The so called good old days were bad for the Brahmins.

Let us stop harping about the so called good old days.


Tamil Brahmins do not want to end up like the Amish, an Anachronism of the past.
 
Renukaji

Whether you like it or not many Traditional Brahmins view Jati separate from Gunas .

Dear Sir,

I don't think it is TB's alone who might think this way..lots of other communities too have the same view...that is why I see some communities where I stay jumping about to maintain culture and going overboard in the process.
 
Tamil Brahmins are a vibrant, adaptive community. They are not like the Amish in U.S. Lot of messages about the good old days. How good were these days? Vast majority of the Brahmins were poor. They were finding it difficult to get two square meals a day. Grinding poverty.

Any amount of glorification of the past can not negate these stark facts. Brahmins were dependent on the hand outs from other communities.


As long as The Brahmins were poor and dependent on the hand outs from other communities, the other communities were happy.


But when the Brahmins got educated and stopped being dependent on the hand outs, the other communities got jealous. The land lord could not tolerate the poor Brahmin's son becoming a Government official.

Tamil Brahmins are what they are today, a prosperous, vibrant community because they adapted with the times. This is in spite of the efforts of the religious leaders to Keep them poor and uneducated.
The so called good old days were bad for the Brahmins.

Let us stop harping about the so called good old days.


Tamil Brahmins do not want to end up like the Amish, an Anachronism of the past.

Dear Sir,

I remember once when my mum and I were travelling in a train in India we were seated next to white lady who did not seem to happy to see progress in India.

She was lamenting that compared to her last visit...India had progressed so much and the simple life was lost.

She also said that when she came to India before it was retreat..away from the hustle and bustle of life and now that whole situation is not there anymore.

So my mum told her.."just becos you want your holidays here that does not mean India can't progress and always be backward just to keep you happy..why don't you wish less progress for your own country?"

She did not way a word after that.

So I personally feel any or every community should strive to improve themselves cos when we are in trouble and need of money for education of children or for health reasons..no one is going to come help anyone.
 
So my mum told her.."just becos you want your holidays here that does not mean India can't progress and always be backward just to keep you happy..why don't you wish less progress for your own country?"

That was a wonderful reply by your Mom . But the same attitude is also prevalent among many Urban Indians who feel disgusted by the way Tier-2 and Tier-3 cities are fast developing .One of my friends said that previously when he visited his native place the locals there will keep standing in front of him with folded hands but now he sees those Guys driving past him in a bike and talking in a Cell Phone and some are now constructing their own houses in Concrete because their son /daughters are now earning Well in an IT Company in Chennai .
I asked him , do u still want that guy to be wearing a Kaupina and be always ready to clean your toilet and gutter when you visit your native place ? He kept quiet .

The current Violence against Dalits in Dharmapuri in TN is basically this disgust among the other Non Brahmin Upper Castes over their increase in Education and Economic status and they wanted to teach them a lesson and show them where they belong .
 
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Tamil Brahmins are a vibrant, adaptive community. They are not like the Amish in U.S. Lot of messages about the good old days. How good were these days? Vast majority of the Brahmins were poor. They were finding it difficult to get two square meals a day. Grinding poverty.
Any amount of glorification of the past can not negate these stark facts. Brahmins were dependent on the hand outs from other communities.
As long as The Brahmins were poor and dependent on the hand outs from other communities, the other communities were happy.
But when the Brahmins got educated and stopped being dependent on the hand outs, the other communities got jealous. The land lord could not tolerate the poor Brahmin's son becoming a Government official.
Tamil Brahmins are what they are today, a prosperous, vibrant community because they adapted with the times. This is in spite of the efforts of the religious leaders to Keep them poor and uneducated.The so called good old days were bad for the Brahmins.
Let us stop harping about the so called good old days.
Tamil Brahmins do not want to end up like the Amish, an Anachronism of the past.

Dear Sri "Nacchinarkiniyan",

I would consider your message, a well articulated analysis on the adaptability of Tamil Brahmin Community to the changing times. Though initially Brahmins lacked modern education, the community understood the importance of modern education and entered the field of competitive world fully equipped with required talent. Yes, Tamil Brahmins will never end up like the Amish. The adaptability of Tamil Brahmins is unique and vibrant, which has endured the odds of the situation very well, according to the requirements.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
the prescription of the opening post looks like a saravana bavan mini lunch, where u have to eat everything orelse u will leave hungry.
having come from a very forward thinking brahmin family, buffet is the rule rather than exception. U apply as and when situation opens up.
 
I feel the OP brings out the contradictions creating some sort of mental conflict in the mind of the e-mail sender; his mind yearns for those "imagined" glorious olden days of his grandfather/greatgrandfather, and, at the same time, is well aware of the benefits of the present day life style of brahmins. I fully agree with this observation therein, though :—


I see quite a few elders (must be retired Senior bankers, Government
servants or retired from MNC and definitely not true Sastrigal)
advising youngsters not to go after money but to tread in Brahminical
path. With due respects to them, I see lots of hypocrisy in their
statements."

The above is the infection affecting many members of this forum, imo, although, w.r.t. this thread they may do a somersault and come out with a new face!

I for one, am of the view "I have lived my life to the best of my abilities and wisdom, let future generations decide theirs in accordance with their intelligence and abilities." Brahmin culture etc., are no more relevant in today's changing world.

Shri mkrishna100,

I am not sure as to what you mean when you say "sanatana dharma"; any scriptural evidence/definition please? BTW, we had some discussion in the past about whether there is anything called sanatana dharma at all, which has remained unchanged. If you can kindly search the archives and go through.
 
I

The above is the infection affecting many members of this forum, imo, although, w.r.t. this thread they may do a somersault and come out with a new face!

Dear Sri Sangom,

I like this statement. I too notice this in thread after thread.

As soon as a new thread is opened, a decision is taken whether to support or to oppose the OP and all arguments for or against are adduced, sometimes completely ignoring contradictory stand taken in some other thread.

The icing on the cake will be a quotation from Bhagwat Geetha, whether relevant or not.
 
Let me start with the disclaimer that I am neither maligning nor extolling any specific group in this post but speaking my mind on what I wish be not a norm in the society.

In my view the present world has got at least one thing totally wrong.

Let me talk about the concept of equality in the present world. The only real equality I see in the so highly esteemed idea of democracy is the equality in exercising one's franchise. Other than than that it is inequality that permeates each and every aspect of the society. In fact for all practical purposes democracy ironically thrives on inequality. So there is only a lip service for equality and it is one of the biggest con games of modern times. I think it is much better to be frank and accept that each human is unique and develop solutions based on this truth. If you are not doing this you are forced to adopt solutions that are a mismatch to the problems of the society.

I see the present hypocritical approach to equality as an antithesis to the higher values and thinking that were conceptualized in India. They saw the reality and proposed solutions based on the reality. This has given way to the thinking of the rest of the world. When you deny something that is fundamental you are bound to end up in self contradictory and hypocritical systems.

Those who were at the higher echelons of the society in terms of the contributions, whether it be the brahmins or any other community, are made to feel that they have nothing to contribute by way of their uniqueness and that each is just a copy of the other just as one machine is no different from the other. We need to understand that equality is only before the law and not on the capability of a person. So though, two persons belonging to different groups who commit the same crime will be punished in the same way it has to be understood in reality that the two persons are unique in their own way. So we need to put an end to this systematic putting down of a group and allow every group to freely develop.

Just as with any other community the course of the brahmin community can be understood in this context and why its ethos are eroding.
 
Let me start with the disclaimer that I am neither maligning nor extolling any specific group in this post but speaking my mind on what I wish be not a norm in the society.
In my view the present world has got at least one thing totally wrong.
Let me talk about the concept of equality in the present world. The only real equality I see in the so highly esteemed idea of democracy is the equality in exercising one's franchise. Other than than that it is inequality that permeates each and every aspect of the society. In fact for all practical purposes democracy ironically thrives on inequality. So there is only a lip service for equality and it is one of the biggest con games of modern times. I think it is much better to be frank and accept that each human is unique and develop solutions based on this truth. If you are not doing this you are forced to adopt solutions that are a mismatch to the problems of the society.
I see the present hypocritical approach to equality as an antithesis to the higher values and thinking that were conceptualized in India. They saw the reality and proposed solutions based on the reality. This has given way to the thinking of the rest of the world. When you deny something that is fundamental you are bound to end up in self contradictory and hypocritical systems.
Those who were at the higher echelons of the society in terms of the contributions, whether it be the brahmins or any other community, are made to feel that they have nothing to contribute by way of their uniqueness and that each is just a copy of the other just as one machine is no different from the other. We need to understand that equality is only before the law and not on the capability of a person. So though, two persons belonging to different groups who commit the same crime will be punished in the same way it has to be understood in reality that the two persons are unique in their own way. So we need to put an end to this systematic putting down of a group and allow every group to freely develop.
Just as with any other community the course of the brahmin community can be understood in this context and why its ethos are eroding.

Dear Sravna,

This is exactly what I have been telling all along. I have gone one step further and said those who are in the higher echelons of the society should not put down others. When we come across thaat we call it casteist discrimination and atrocity. I had quoted the term சமனிலாதன பல பரப்பி from an ancient text in that context.

cheers.
 
Let me start with the disclaimer that I am neither maligning nor extolling any specific group in this post but speaking my mind on what I wish be not a norm in the society.

In my view the present world has got at least one thing totally wrong.

Let me talk about the concept of equality in the present world. The only real equality I see in the so highly esteemed idea of democracy is the equality in exercising one's franchise. Other than than that it is inequality that permeates each and every aspect of the society. In fact for all practical purposes democracy ironically thrives on inequality. So there is only a lip service for equality and it is one of the biggest con games of modern times. I think it is much better to be frank and accept that each human is unique and develop solutions based on this truth. If you are not doing this you are forced to adopt solutions that are a mismatch to the problems of the society.

Dear Shri Sravna,

I also agree that each human is unique. But how do you think a government or administration should manage crores of such unique humans by developing solutions based on this fact (truth, in your words)? I feel it will be humanly impossible. That is why, as a workable proposition, the idea of equality before law has come into being. This means that the law will not differentiate between one person and another when judging the crime against an accused and the punishment to be meted out.

You suddenly jump from uniqueness of individuals to "the problems of the society". This looks strange; if once we harp on "developing solutions based on the truth that each human being is unique", where is the relevance of society? And, if society is taken as the unit, what happens to the uniqueness of the individual humans? This needs rethinking on your part, imo.

I see the present hypocritical approach to equality as an antithesis to the higher values and thinking that were conceptualized in India. They saw the reality and proposed solutions based on the reality. This has given way to the thinking of the rest of the world. When you deny something that is fundamental you are bound to end up in self contradictory and hypocritical systems.

You have to clarify the nebulous statements like "the higher values and thinking that were conceptualized in India" (OK, whether they were practised, and, if yes, in what manner?), "They saw the reality and proposed solutions based on the reality."(once again, you have not spelt out clearly what was the "reality" and what were the solutions), what is meant by "the thinking of the rest of the world", what is "the something fundamental" and how do you feel it is being denied?

Those who were at the higher echelons of the society in terms of the contributions, whether it be the brahmins or any other community, are made to feel that they have nothing to contribute by way of their uniqueness and that each is just a copy of the other just as one machine is no different from the other.

My dear Sravna,

How do you say, even after so many discussions in this forum, that some community - brahmins or any other - happened to be occupying the higher echelons of the society due to their contributions to the society? Taking brahmins as one example, the view put forward by the pro-brahmin sections in this forum has been that the powerful Kshatriyas made the poor, spineless brahmins to make rules in such a way that the Kshatriyas (and probably the ancient Vaisyas too) remained at the helm, and as a quid pro quo, the hapless scribes that the brahmins were, were given the place of reverence apparently although in truth the kshatriyas and vaisyas cared two hoots for the brahmins, despite whatever evidence one may find to the contrary, in our scriptures. When such arguments were being forcefully put forward in the past, I never saw you coming in and saying boldly that brahmins did occupy the higher echelons because of their significant contributions to the society and not merely as meek servants of the powerful NB classes. Hence, it is not correct now to bring in the brahmin community in this discussion.

As regards kshatriyas, there are less number of groups claiming to be kshatriyas in south India while a very large number (Rajputs, for example) claim they are kshatriyas. These people still rule even in today's democracy and even if they have any complaint at the level of their community, I do not think we are capable of discussing it here.

On the whole, therefore, your above argument falls like nine pins. In the present democratic set-up in India, one has to assess one's own capabilities and strive to make use of whatever opportunities present before you or struggle to excel in some particular avocation and progress in that. No one can expect the government or administration to find out the unique capabilities of each individual and then allot to him some work and then pay him so that he lives a reasonably comfortable life.

We need to understand that equality is only before the law and not on the capability of a person. So though, two persons belonging to different groups who commit the same crime will be punished in the same way it has to be understood in reality that the two persons are unique in their own way.

This argument, view is fallacious and hence a non-starter imo. Are you hinting that the old Dharma Sastra rules which exempted brahmins from capital punishment, allowed a light punishment to brahmins for practically every crime under the sun, etc., should come back? Imagine what your reaction will be if the favoured category becomes the SC/ST, OBC & minorities, because of "affirmative action" on the part of the government?

So we need to put an end to this systematic putting down of a group and allow every group to freely develop.

Just as with any other community the course of the brahmin community can be understood in this context and why its ethos are eroding.

Reading both the above sentences, in the background of your other arguments, I get the feeling that unless the brahmin community is treated like a constantly fondled, darling child of the society, it will be left with no ethos. Truth at last?;)
 
Dear Shri Sangom,

The gist of my argument is that we need to clearly understand what we mean when we talk of equality. I really don't think that many understand what they mean by it. The concept of equality was popularized by democracy. The idea was every one should be considered equal with respect to rights and treatment by the law. But the idea took a twist when people in politics started to to use it in a way that suited their interests.

But before that our nation committed the first fatal flaw with the idea of reservation for injustice committed to a certain section of the society in the past. In my view it is flawed thinking because if those people lacked status in society in the past the best way to set it right is to help them rise to a higher status and not force the status on them. The former benefits not only such people but is also not detrimental to the others in the society. You try to make a poor man productive instead of giving him free food. The reservation policy started a sop culture and we find ourselves in a pathetic situation that we are in now.

Every group that was defined by certain interests started claiming equality with what was norm. The idea of equality of homosexuals with heterosexual people is a good example. Since in a political system such as democracy every significant group being potentially a votebank for the political parties, politicians began to see opportunities in supporting such groups irrespective of what impact it might have on the long term well being of the society.

If you agree on this we will discuss further on the other statements that I made in my earlier post.
 
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Dear limat or when read <--- Tamil,

Because you have said in the OP that you identify yourself with the forwarded message's content, I am replying to you. Every melodramatic "so what" can be replied with a simple "nothing" as answer. Without going elaborately into your forwarded message, let us look at it in a general way. Already some one has said that these changes represent the ability of brahmins to change with times. That is one way of looking at it. Now let us look at it from another angle.

You do not say abhivadaye, you do not prostrate before elders, you live licentiously eating pork and what not and drinking every kind of liquour, you do not do sandhi as you do not even know it, you do not believe in values of relationships and their natural intrusiveness because your tolerance level for proximity is very low, you believe names have no significance other than being just labels of identification etc. I am repeating all these just to fix your coordinates for our mutual convenience. Tamil, do you realise that all that you have stated are only in the periphery of “being a Brahmin”.

The core of “being a Brahmin” still remains not corrupted and that is why all this melodrama and question ‘so what’ so many times. Today, if you visit just once an abattoir the very next day you will give up going to Velu Military or the Muniyandi Vilas Hotel which you frequent and all the 60 days old chicks which go into the making of your chicken-60 dish will be haunting you because you have not yet passed into that state in which you have lost all your Brahmin basic values. At the gene level our calendar years are just nano seconds and it takes generations for the cultural impact on the genes to manifest in perceptible changes. If you do not perceive the value of all that you have lost and if you do not teach your children these values as your father failed to do, the peripheral reality will overwhelm the core of “being a Brahmin”.

Now I will tell you a little bit about the core of “being a Brahmin”.

Being a brahmin involves living peacefully with satvik values. To acquire and retain satvic values you have to be born a Brahmin and you need to follow a certain discipline in life. Not to harm any living beings is one such value. Not be conceited even while keeping your self esteem in tact is another. Being always aware of your dependence on God and on everything in this world is another. We can add many more to this list. Behavioral scientists call it Adult Ego State and it is some what close to this definition. Being always in that state is what is the core of being a Brahmin. The discipline part involves avoiding non-veg food as it hinders satvik state and involves killing of other living beings. Doing a namaskar before an elderly person involves respect for knowledge that comes with age and controlling of ego. Saying abhivathaye involves reminding oneself about the satvic values his genes have picked up since a long time through generations.

So please do not confuse means with ends or packing material with contents. Peripheral attributes will change with time while the core is always preserved despite attacks, upto a threshold. Here I can say only this much. There is a lot to be explained and the post will become lengthy. The best thing you can do is to learn about what is involved in being a Brahmin from a good teacher and then , this is most important, don’t forget to teach it to your children as long as they do not bring a dorai or a dorasani into your home, for the values are different and they are at a different stage of evolution..

I know people here would chuckle and say here is the Brahmin warrior who always says such unscientific things. Truth remains truth irrespective of whether you recognize it as such or not and that is why it is truth.

Try to perceive.

Cheers.
 
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Dear limat or when read <--- Tamil,

Because you have said in the OP that you identify yourself with the forwarded message's content, I am replying to you. Every melodramatic "so what" can be replied with a simple "nothing" as answer. Without going elaborately into your forwarded message, let us look at it in a general way. Already some one has said that these changes represent the ability of brahmins to change with times. That is one way of looking at it. Now let us look at it from another angle.

You do not say abhivadaye, you do not prostrate before elders, you live licentiously eating pork and what not and drinking every kind of liquour, you do not do sandhi as you do not even know it, you do not believe in values of relationships and their natural intrusiveness because your tolerance level for proximity is very low, you believe names have no significance other than being just labels of identification etc. I am repeating all these just to fix your coordinates for our mutual convenience. Tamil, do you realise that all that you have stated are only in the periphery of “being a Brahmin”.

The core of “being a Brahmin” still remains not corrupted and that is why all this melodrama and question ‘so what’ so many times. Today, if you visit just once an abattoir the very next day you will give up going to Velu Military or the Muniyandi Vilas Hotel which you frequent and all the 60 days old chicks which go into the making of your chicken-60 dish will be haunting you because you have not yet passed into that state in which you have lost all your Brahmin basic values. At the gene level our calendar years are just nano seconds and it takes generations for the cultural impact on the genes to manifest in perceptible changes. If you do not perceive the value of all that you have lost and if you do not teach your children these values as your father failed to do, the peripheral reality will overwhelm the core of “being a Brahmin”.

Now I will tell you a little bit about the core of “being a Brahmin”.

Being a brahmin involves living peacefully with satvik values. To acquire and retain satvic values you have to be born a Brahmin and you need to follow a certain discipline in life. Not to harm any living beings is one such value. Not be conceited even while keeping your self esteem in tact is another. Being always aware of your dependence on God and on everything in this world is another. We can add many more to this list. Behavioral scientists call it Adult Ego State and it is some what close to this definition. Being always in that state is what is the core of being a Brahmin. The discipline part involves avoiding non-veg food as it hinders satvik state and involves killing of other living beings. Doing a namaskar before an elderly person involves respect for knowledge that comes with age and controlling of ego. Saying abhivathaye involves reminding oneself about the satvic values his genes have picked up since a long time through generations.

So please do not confuse means with ends or packing material with contents. Peripheral attributes will change with time while the core is always preserved despite attacks, upto a threshold. Here I can say only this much. There is a lot to be explained and the post will become lengthy. The best thing you can do is to learn about what is involved in being a Brahmin from a good teacher and then , this is most important, don’t forget to teach it to your children as long as they do not bring a dorai or a dorasani into your home, for the values are different and they are at a different stage of evolution..

I know people here would chuckle and say here is the Brahmin warrior who always says such unscientific things. Truth remains truth irrespective of whether you recognize it as such or not and that is why it is truth.

Try to perceive.

Cheers.

:thumb:
 
Superb response raju. Post #20.

Who is limat or tamil reversed? He appears like, arasu in kumudam, create good questions and watches the fun as the answers are flushed out.

I used to know a guy, who was tops in everything he did. Champion TT player. Won all the general knowledge quij in the college. Stood on top of his class. Great carnatic music rasika – who could probably tell if the singer on stage was suffering from gas pains while doing an alapana. Had a poonal and did his abhivadhay and sandhi, his room near mine, in our hostel.

Except whenever chicken was served in the non veg part of the mess, he would rush to procur a dish. And he would do the obligatory ubasaranam to the chicken along with the rice and ghee. At first it was a novelty enjoyed by parppaans like me, who came to ignore it as familiarity set in.

He moved to usa and things were going great for him. By mid 30 he was a VP of a senior aero engine company and soon had a niche defined to him. Heard that he was into high quality angus beef and kobe beef as his culinary preferences in god’s own country.

He did tragically in a car accident, before his 35th birthday, leaving behind two young children, one a toddler and another an infant.
 
Dear Sir,

I remember once when my mum and I were travelling in a train in India we were seated next to white lady who did not seem to happy to see progress in India.

She was lamenting that compared to her last visit...India had progressed so much and the simple life was lost.

She also said that when she came to India before it was retreat..away from the hustle and bustle of life and now that whole situation is not there anymore.

So my mum told her.."just becos you want your holidays here that does not mean India can't progress and always be backward just to keep you happy..why don't you wish less progress for your own country?"

She did not way a word after that.

So I personally feel any or every community should strive to improve themselves cos when we are in trouble and need of money for education of children or for health reasons..no one is going to come help anyone..

Renuka Ji,

Seems like We have no regard for our 'EcoSystems'. Any new development, be it real-estate or industrlal, should be made without affecting the environment and the basic necessities of people. That's exactly why, the USA environment is still clean while they are developing alongside. We simply want to build, build, build, and have no idea of basic drainage, sewage-treatment, nature-preservation (parks/trees for fresh air and rain) etc.

So, at what point does this development over-run our Sanathan Dharma? Why do people want to marry and produce children, while there are not enough resources around??

Sorry, this may be off-topic, but want to question your enthusiasm for development?? So, what is development along the dharmic lines??
 
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Dear limat or when read <--- Tamil,

Now I will tell you a little bit about the core of “being a Brahmin”.
Peripheral attributes will change with time while the core is always preserved despite attacks, upto a threshold. Here I can say only this much. There is a lot to be explained and the post will become lengthy.


Cheers.

Sri Raju,

A nice post. But, I have a question on 'madi'. Though it seems peripheral, practising that makes a significant impact on our mind/attitude. So, our ancestors had no intentions of procuring too many or posh materials. They would have shunned the idea of those electronic media. But, we have sunk in electronic seas, gold oceans and stock-tsunamis. So, where are we in this?
 
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Except whenever chicken was served in the non veg part of the mess, he would rush to procur a dish. And he would do the obligatory ubasaranam to the chicken along with the rice and ghee. At first it was a novelty enjoyed by parppaans like me, who came to ignore it as familiarity set in.

That is exactly, why we should practice those peripheral anushtAnams, will keep us away from corrupting our minds (peer-pressure or vAsana). But, it is parent' responsibility to educate on the philosophical or moral basis for such actions.

Those cases are mostly born out of defiance. After consumption, it becomes a craving or addiction. Most cases are addiction.

Compare 1 cup of chicken vs Lentils. Lentils provide 18g protein but has high fiber and easy for digestion (easy on stomach), and donot produce any steroidal hormones like the high niacin Chicken. One has to eat healthy nuts to add good cholesterol. Those who dont eat healthy veggie diets, experience craving. For most part, the blame is on the moms or both prarents, who can't provide right food at home or educate the kids.

Chicken has high niacin (steroid hormone generating, though promotes metabolism/DNA repair - to-NB genes!) , man! 43g of protein (enough for whole day) without fiber, (with their germs+ 40% fat), makes one feel like a goat gulped python!. So much for the liver and kidneys!. These people should not be allowed in the education industry!! Plus, Looks like some want to budget and save, esp. Kerala Iyers!
 
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