Progression or Erosion of Brahmin Ethos?

[sarang]

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You are lucky. What to do if the satva-rajo-tamasa guna timings are not known and duration is short!

It is 2.51pm out here now..so you are right..it's Raja Guna time.

Sattva time finished before in the morning.

Let me log in at Tamas Guna time later and write something! LOL

 

[renuka]

You are lucky. What to do if the satva-rajo-tamasa guna timings are not known and duration is short!

Then we get Ambi and Anniyan appearing at the same time!

[video=youtube_share;7v-0tTWrEGw]http://youtu.be/7v-0tTWrEGw[/video]

 

[suraju06]

Then we get Ambi and Anniyan appearing at the same time!

Yeah! That would mean ambivalence towards ambi and anniyonniyam towards anniyan and within seconds anniyonniyam towards ambi and ambivalence to wards anniyan. LOL. Some play with words and some play with word and their tags.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,

The gist of my argument is that we need to clearly understand what we mean when we talk of equality. I really don't think that many understand what they mean by it. The concept of equality was popularized by democracy. The idea was every one should be considered equal with respect to rights and treatment by the law. But the idea took a twist when people in politics started to to use it in a way that suited their interests.

But before that our nation committed the first fatal flaw with the idea of reservation for injustice committed to a certain section of the society in the past. In my view it is flawed thinking because if those people lacked status in society in the past the best way to set it right is to help them rise to a higher status and not force the status on them. The former benefits not only such people but is also not detrimental to the others in the society. You try to make a poor man productive instead of giving him free food. The reservation policy started a sop culture and we find ourselves in a pathetic situation that we are in now.

Every group that was defined by certain interests started claiming equality with what was norm. The idea of equality of homosexuals with heterosexual people is a good example. Since in a political system such as democracy every significant group being potentially a votebank for the political parties, politicians began to see opportunities in supporting such groups irrespective of what impact it might have on the long term well being of the society.

If you agree on this we will discuss further on the other statements that I made in my earlier post.

Dear Shri Sravna,

So, the cat is out of the bag! and yours is the usual cribbing against the reservation system, which has become very characteristic of tabras nowadays.

I don't think the government could have done anything else, given the social scenario which prevailed in India at the time of its independence. You may find it easy to mouth statements such as "if those people lacked status in society in the past the best way to set it right is to help them rise to a higher status and not force the status on them", but tell me one method of achieving that except by giving special consideration from the Government's side for enabling those lower categories to get educated and in finding employment opportunities under the governments? How else do you think some people can be lifted to higher "status"?

I agree that the reservation policy has resulted in the brahmins and certain other higher castes not getting chances for admission to higher education and government jobs; but I firmly believe that this is how Karma strikes back at a group of people at the time of its own choosing, in its own manner which may look to us as highly inequitable, just as it would have appeared to the so-called sudras and Panchamas long, long ago when the caste-based discriminatory rules were brought into being. We brahmins, even with all of the so-called "core of being a brahmin" and what not, will not be able to change such phenomena; not even the Gods will be able to! That is why in some prayer god is described as "atikroora" and in a Tamil prayer song, it is said, அழுதாலும் தொழுதாலும் வினையாகினாய், etc. When the powers-that-be decide to bring in the results of previous Karma, no force in earth or heaven or in the 14 worlds can stop it. That is the ऋतं of the vedas, the rhythm in our parlance - so to say - the principle which makes this universe tick.

Hence, there is no point in crying over the reservation system. Beyond this usual complaint, your post does not say much about the loss of the so-called brahmin ethos to which the OP draws attention. My personal belief is that brahmins did not have very much to contribute towards welfare of the society as a whole. They have become marginalized and a kind of endangered specimens and, if nature, finds them useless, brahmins will slowly vanish into posterity. We happen to be here and now and the best we can do is to throw away our brahminism-blinkered glasses, try to correct ourselves, make amends for the past karmas of brahmins to the extent possible by each one of us and complete our lives.

If my response suits you you may reply; otherwise also, no problem from my side.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Shri Sravna,
So, the cat is out of the bag! and yours is the usual cribbing against the reservation system, which has become very characteristic of tabras nowadays.
I don't think the government could have done anything else, given the social scenario which prevailed in India at the time of its independence. You may find it easy to mouth statements such as "if those people lacked status in society in the past the best way to set it right is to help them rise to a higher status and not force the status on them", but tell me one method of achieving that except by giving special consideration from the Government's side for enabling those lower categories to get educated and in finding employment opportunities under the governments? How else do you think some people can be lifted to higher "status"?
I agree that the reservation policy has resulted in the brahmins and certain other higher castes not getting chances for admission to higher education and government jobs; but I firmly believe that this is how Karma strikes back at a group of people at the time of its own choosing, in its own manner which may look to us as highly inequitable, just as it would have appeared to the so-called sudras and Panchamas long, long ago when the caste-based discriminatory rules were brought into being. We brahmins, even with all of the so-called "core of being a brahmin" and what not, will not be able to change such phenomena; not even the Gods will be able to! That is why in some prayer god is described as "atikroora" and in a Tamil prayer song, it is said, அழுதாலும் தொழுதாலும் வினையாகினாய், etc. When the powers-that-be decide to bring in the results of previous Karma, no force in earth or heaven or in the 14 worlds can stop it. That is the ऋतं of the vedas, the rhythm in our parlance - so to say - the principle which makes this universe tick.
Hence, there is no point in crying over the reservation system. Beyond this usual complaint, your post does not say much about the loss of the so-called brahmin ethos to which the OP draws attention. My personal belief is that brahmins did not have very much to contribute towards welfare of the society as a whole. They have become marginalized and a kind of endangered specimens and, if nature, finds them useless, brahmins will slowly vanish into posterity. We happen to be here and now and the best we can do is to throw away our brahminism-blinkered glasses, try to correct ourselves, make amends for the past karmas of brahmins to the extent possible by each one of us and complete our lives.
If my response suits you you may reply; otherwise also, no problem from my side.

Dear Sangom sir,

Your post #54:

Tabras do not cribb against the reservation system. If any thing it is tabras who were instrumental in bringing the reservation system. In the committee which was constituted to draft constitution of India there were good many tabras and tey contributed substantially to the reservation system which was introduced right into the constitution. So whenever a tambra speaks about reservation it is about the flaws which have subsequently crept into the constitutional provision. They ask only this -why should such a flawed constitutional provision be inflicted on the citizens of this country.These are the flaws which have completely changed the principle of affirmative action, the essence of reservations:

1. Constitution itself lost its sanctity when it was amended umpteen number of times to suit politicians' manipulations.

2. It was found that the Hindu society had been less than friendly towards a certain section of its members, and so it was thought fit to help them come up to the level of others by introducing reservations for them. They were identified and listed in a separate schedule to the constitution and thus those sections of the Hindu society got the name scheduled castes and tribes. Here again the politicians manipulated repeatedly to include vociferous sections sections of the society which were their vote banks into the reservation basket. The power play has been so blatantly ugly that these additions were not made to the existing list in the schedule to the constitution but were added outside it. The politicians thus took care not to pollute even the names of these middle castes by clubbing them with the panchamans and tribals!

3. The process of manipulation has reached such ridiculous levels that those who were the tormentors of these scheduled castes and tribes once (which made them lag behind in economic advancement) also became eligible for reservations and side by side with the tormented they enjoy undue advantage all just because of vote bank politics and numbers. I had a friend who cleared an all India examination claiming (the benefit of reservation) that he belonged to Konda reddy community which is a notified nomadic tribe living in Andhra. He is actually the son of a Reddiyarpatti Reddiyar from southern tamilnadu and the family owns cenema theatres/hotels and is a rich community engaged in agriculture and trade all over Tamilnadu. He had to just to go and meet a Tahsildar and "persuade" him to issue the certificate. Just as simple as that. Later I came to know that every politically powerful community has one or two such nomadic tribes included in its fold with names quite deceptive and are taking advantage of it. You can come across doctors claiming to belong to such notified tribes but actually a son/daughter of middle caste doctor parents.

4. Originally the reservation was to be there for a fixed number of years so that the SC,ST communities would get a reasonable length of time to grab the opportunities and catch up with other communities including brahmins. But on flimsy grounds and purely on political considerations the time limit has been extended and we do not know which is the outer time limit now. The law makers have not done anything to devise a method to assess the economic development of a community in a time interval and it is deliberate. They want every time the unclear and nebulous social development index to come into reckoning to wreck any meaningful rivision.

5. In effect the reservation has been hijacked and converted into a tool to reward politically, numerically preponderant and powerful middle castes in India. These were the castes who originally devised the caste discriminations and atrocities and converted the varnasrama dharma into a cess pool of human right violations and atrocities.

Now, Sangom sir, brahmins do not ask for reservation for themselves seriously. They want all these flaws removed and for that reason they say the reservations in its present form should go. Will you please point out where I am wrong in any of my above points. Please give your views point by point for easy understanding.

Next, you have talked about the karma visiting brahmins. If karma has to visit any one it should first visit those middle caste mirasdaars and zamindars who treated the panchamans as less than their bullocks in yoke, who treated the panchaman's women folk as not only as beasts of labour but also, when it was sundown, as sexual objects used for satisfying their carnal cravings. But it appears even the heavenly powers that be are scared of bringing them to justice and appear to be totally powerless in front of the khap panchayats, sanghams and paripalana sabhas of these middle castes. So the rtham stops at the entrance of these caste organizsations.

You want brahmins to make amends. They will do that when the karma comes and knocks at their doors. That is still a long way off because it has not even begun its task with the middle caste tormentors. Till then we will continue to be what we are--opinion leaders, middle class citizens enjoying the comforts of GDP growth without losing our core values, the preferred human resources when it comes to writing, understanding and using complex algorithms for the rich and paying MNCs in India or US, living peacefully with our core brahmin values in tact, enjoying additionally the beautiful and melodious carnatic music, eating kali on tiruvathirai day, akkara adisil on koodaarai vellum seer day in markazhi, celebrating our temple utsavams regularly, doing our sandhi etc daily as far as possible etc., Yeah we are lucky to be endowed with these core brahmin values which make us unique.

Cheers.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

The successful Tamil Brahmins of this and earlier generations did not succeed because they were born Brahmins. Their success is not because they did Santhyavandanam, not because they ran after Matathipathis and religious teachers.

Their success was because they were intelligent, hard working, and were able to adapt themselves to changing circumstances.

The Tamil Brahmins who were not intelligent enough, who were not hard working, and who were unable to adapt to change were left behind.

In this modern world doing santhyavandanam, being sattvic, or listening to Pravachanams ALONE will not help any one in achieving success.

You have to be intelligent, hard working and have the ability to adapt to changing circumstances.

We are a Dyanmic and Vibrant community because we adapted to the change in circumstances.

Adapt or Perish.

 

[sarang]

Some confusion here. Sandhya and other nitya karmas are not for success in life or for material benefits and for a luxurious life. They are for a more meaningful life.

The successful Tamil Brahmins of this and earlier generations did not succeed because they were born Brahmins. Their success is not because they did Santhyavandanam, not because they ran after Matathipathis and religious teachers.

 

[limat]

Mr. Suraju,
I got that e-mail, I agree with the sentiment expressed in the e-mail. I too have made compromises in my life, because of circumstances. I am honest, where as others who have opposite view are not.
This being my first post, and not being familiar with other individual members, did not expect this reception. You may all know each other well, but to me this is rowdy welcome.
Mr. Renuka said it right Changes happen, live with it.
If you are honest you too would admit that that in spite of all teaching by you, your children will have different values, and priorities.

 

[limat]

Superb response raju. Post #20.

Who is limat or tamil reversed? He appears like, arasu in kumudam, create good questions and watches the fun as the answers are flushed out.

I used to know a guy, who was tops in everything he did. Champion TT player. Won all the general knowledge quij in the college. Stood on top of his class. Great carnatic music rasika – who could probably tell if the singer on stage was suffering from gas pains while doing an alapana. Had a poonal and did his abhivadhay and sandhi, his room near mine, in our hostel.

Except whenever chicken was served in the non veg part of the mess, he would rush to procur a dish. And he would do the obligatory ubasaranam to the chicken along with the rice and ghee. At first it was a novelty enjoyed by parppaans like me, who came to ignore it as familiarity set in.

He moved to usa and things were going great for him. By mid 30 he was a VP of a senior aero engine company and soon had a niche defined to him. Heard that he was into high quality angus beef and kobe beef as his culinary preferences in god’s own country.

He did tragically in a car accident, before his 35th birthday, leaving behind two young children, one a toddler and another an infant.

Mr. K,

He did tragically in a car accident, before his 35th birthday, leaving behind two young children, one a toddler and another an infant.

I do not believe that you are saying that he died young because he ate Chicken, or beef.
The way your post reads it sounds that is the conclusion you came to.
Are we equipped to judge others?
May be he was successful because of his values and his karmas, who can say.
If I am not wrong even Adi Shankara passed away young, did he eat Chicken? Did he migrate to USA?

 

[prasad1]

Adapt or Perish.

Very well written piece.
I think it is in keeping with the original post.

 

[vgane]

The OP shared the anachronism in our community across 4 generations...There was not even an iota or tinge of remorse in what is happening...I feel that we should not get bothered about the past...The past is behind us...The future beckons us...Let us see what we can do to follow the Brahmin ethos and at the same time raise our status in this country..These are a few suggestions which are not in any order

1. Let us imbibe the spiritual ethos in spirit...In case we are violating it, can we check if our conscience allows it...There is no better gate keeper than conscience.

2. Let us not belittle our customs...We may have discarded several outdated customs because they do reflect our modern outlook and scientific temper...

3. Let us rejuvenate ourselves through yoga, meditation and other sattvik excercises ...Even walking for 45 minutes in the morning /evening reinvigorates our mind and intellect

4. At least once a month let us visit a temple alomng with family to pay obeisance to God and find the connect with God to rejuvenate our spirit

5. Let us do our duties as a student or as a parent as an employee in Private sector or Government or Armed Forces and give our 100% in terms of hard work, dedication and diligence

6. Let us sharpen our intellect /mental strength through the various gadgets...I know children sharpening their memories through online games..We have to keep our brain as sharp as a razor

7. Try to work in communities to understand others, share pain and resolve isues together...It increases bonding and brings its own happiness

8. Let us contribute to charity, for the poor needy and destitutes belonging to any caste or community; only a small portion of our income that is feasible..If we are not able to provide money let us provide some moral support...The radiance in their smile as a token of gratitude should help you for generations to come

9. Let us feel proud of our Brahmin/Hindu lineage and try our best to follow our cultural traditions and help others (not just Brahmins alone)

10. Education is the modern sword for our Tambra..Let us not give even 1% chance of doubt on that front...Education which has helped us in the past will lead to better choice of employment, better and informed decions, better income, better health and better social status

11. As far as money is concerned many have voiced an opinion that having money is not part of our Brahmin ethos...I differ on that point..On the other hand money is going to help us achieve all the above 10 and much more

Jai Hind!

 

[prasad1]

Dear Kunjuppu,

I am not surprised to know about your friend and his tragic end. I know quite a few such people in my friends circle too. I would like to just add this:

A brahmin's system is wired in a different way. Like my friend Varkey said, it is wired to seek answers, explore the frontiers and go beyond that, live on the edge for the sheer thrill of it as he shoots through the final hurdle etc., Once a brahmin starts out on a venture, he is not wired to be satisfied with what he has won until he reaches the last plateu. If you dig a little deeper into your friend's case history you may find that he had just one peg too many for the road on the day he drove his car out. Poor guy! despite his intelligence he did not have this perception about the way his system was wired.

Do you chuckle now reading my post and think this fellow is an incorrigible brahmin warrior. If so you have just read through and not perceived.

Cheers.

I thought a little bit deeper look into facts would be needed to come to that conclusion. What if Mr. Kunjuppu's friend who was not drunk (or one too many pegs), but the weather was bad, the other driver was distracted or there was a mechanical failure.
So instead of jumping to conclusion and (secretly) gloating at the misfortune of a fellow human being let us understand that our destiny is not entirely in our hand. We play the cards dealt to us, the best way we know.
The original opinion expressed just paints the honest picture of changing values. Some of us are honest, we may lament the change, but have to accept and live with it.

 

[prasad1]

The OP shared the anachronism in our community across 4 generations...There was not even an iota or tinge of remorse in what is happening...I feel that we should not get bothered about the past...The past is behind us...The future beckons us...

I agree with your views sir.
Each generation may feel apprehension that the newer generation is deviating from their own values. That is normal for any society.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sangom sir,

Your post #54:

Tabras do not cribb against the reservation system. If any thing it is tabras who were instrumental in bringing the reservation system. In the committee which was constituted to draft constitution of India there were good many tabras and tey contributed substantially to the reservation system which was introduced right into the constitution. So whenever a tambra speaks about reservation it is about the flaws which have subsequently crept into the constitutional provision. They ask only this -why should such a flawed constitutional provision be inflicted on the citizens of this country.These are the flaws which have completely changed the principle of affirmative action, the essence of reservations:

1. Constitution itself lost its sanctity when it was amended umpteen number of times to suit politicians' manipulations.

2. It was found that the Hindu society had been less than friendly towards a certain section of its members, and so it was thought fit to help them come up to the level of others by introducing reservations for them. They were identified and listed in a separate schedule to the constitution and thus those sections of the Hindu society got the name scheduled castes and tribes. Here again the politicians manipulated repeatedly to include vociferous sections sections of the society which were their vote banks into the reservation basket. The power play has been so blatantly ugly that these additions were not made to the existing list in the schedule to the constitution but were added outside it. The politicians thus took care not to pollute even the names of these middle castes by clubbing them with the panchamans and tribals!

3. The process of manipulation has reached such ridiculous levels that those who were the tormentors of these scheduled castes and tribes once (which made them lag behind in economic advancement) also became eligible for reservations and side by side with the tormented they enjoy undue advantage all just because of vote bank politics and numbers. I had a friend who cleared an all India examination claiming (the benefit of reservation) that he belonged to Konda reddy community which is a notified nomadic tribe living in Andhra. He is actually the son of a Reddiyarpatti Reddiyar from southern tamilnadu and the family owns cenema theatres/hotels and is a rich community engaged in agriculture and trade all over Tamilnadu. He had to just to go and meet a Tahsildar and "persuade" him to issue the certificate. Just as simple as that. Later I came to know that every politically powerful community has one or two such nomadic tribes included in its fold with names quite deceptive and are taking advantage of it. You can come across doctors claiming to belong to such notified tribes but actually a son/daughter of middle caste doctor parents.

4. Originally the reservation was to be there for a fixed number of years so that the SC,ST communities would get a reasonable length of time to grab the opportunities and catch up with other communities including brahmins. But on flimsy grounds and purely on political considerations the time limit has been extended and we do not know which is the outer time limit now. The law makers have not done anything to devise a method to assess the economic development of a community in a time interval and it is deliberate. They want every time the unclear and nebulous social development index to come into reckoning to wreck any meaningful rivision.

5. In effect the reservation has been hijacked and converted into a tool to reward politically, numerically preponderant and powerful middle castes in India. These were the castes who originally devised the caste discriminations and atrocities and converted the varnasrama dharma into a cess pool of human right violations and atrocities.

Now, Sangom sir, brahmins do not ask for reservation for themselves seriously. They want all these flaws removed and for that reason they say the reservations in its present form should go. Will you please point out where I am wrong in any of my above points. Please give your views point by point for easy understanding.

Next, you have talked about the karma visiting brahmins. If karma has to visit any one it should first visit those middle caste mirasdaars and zamindars who treated the panchamans as less than their bullocks in yoke, who treated the panchaman's women folk as not only as beasts of labour but also, when it was sundown, as sexual objects used for satisfying their carnal cravings. But it appears even the heavenly powers that be are scared of bringing them to justice and appear to be totally powerless in front of the khap panchayats, sanghams and paripalana sabhas of these middle castes. So the rtham stops at the entrance of these caste organizsations.

You want brahmins to make amends. They will do that when the karma comes and knocks at their doors. That is still a long way off because it has not even begun its task with the middle caste tormentors. Till then we will continue to be what we are--opinion leaders, middle class citizens enjoying the comforts of GDP growth without losing our core values, the preferred human resources when it comes to writing, understanding and using complex algorithms for the rich and paying MNCs in India or US, living peacefully with our core brahmin values in tact, enjoying additionally the beautiful and melodious carnatic music, eating kali on tiruvathirai day, akkara adisil on koodaarai vellum seer day in markazhi, celebrating our temple utsavams regularly, doing our sandhi etc daily as far as possible etc., Yeah we are lucky to be endowed with these core brahmin values which make us unique.

Cheers.

Shri Raju,

Excellent post. I am looking forward to Shri.Sangom's response to the post

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Some confusion here. Sandhya and other nitya karmas are not for success in life or for material benefits and for a luxurious life. They are for a more meaningful life.

Sarang,
Let us talk about the present. Even with good jobs Tamil Brahmin boys find it difficult to get Girls for marriage. If one does not do well materially he can forget about getting married.

You do not have any Ashrama for unmarried Boys. They have to become Grahasthas or Sannyasis.

A Brahmin has to become a Grahastha to do Samskaras.

So even to be an ideal Brahmin one has to do well materially.

There are no free lunches in the modern world.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sravna,

So, the cat is out of the bag! and yours is the usual cribbing against the reservation system, which has become very characteristic of tabras nowadays.

I don't think the government could have done anything else, given the social scenario which prevailed in India at the time of its independence. You may find it easy to mouth statements such as "if those people lacked status in society in the past the best way to set it right is to help them rise to a higher status and not force the status on them", but tell me one method of achieving that except by giving special consideration from the Government's side for enabling those lower categories to get educated and in finding employment opportunities under the governments? How else do you think some people can be lifted to higher "status"?

Dear Shri Sangom,

All that they needed was opportunities to get into education. The most important period in the learning of any person is the early years. So the wiser solution would have been to create special education centers for such disadvantaged people even up to the level of high school or higher secondary school education and ensure that the disadvantage is mitigated. Don't you think such a preparation would have enabled them to face the general competition for entrance to higher education with confidence and without support?. It is morally wrong on the part of the government especially to let a underprepared person to be entrusted with a professional task as it may result in serious damages to the client.

So the focus should have been on the building their foundation and let them be self-reliant later rather than making them dependent on the free stuff offered by the government for life.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Dear Shri Sangom,

All that they needed was opportunities to get into education. The most important period in the learning of any person is the early years. So the wiser solution would have been to create special education centers for such disadvantaged people even up to the level of high school or higher secondary school education and ensure that the disadvantage is mitigated. Don't you think such a preparation would have enabled them to face the general competition for entrance to higher education with confidence and without support?. It is morally wrong on the part of the government especially to let a under prepared person to be entrusted with a professional task as it may result in serious damages to the client.

So the focus should have been on the building their foundation and let them be self-reliant later rather than making them dependent on the free stuff offered by the government for life.

We live in a real world. Not an ideal world. Reservations are now a political tool. They will stay for ever. There is nothing we can do about it. As some one put it "Democracy is a tyranny of the majority". But still it is the best system that we have got. Better than Monarchy (which Hindus are very fond of), Communism and dictatorship.

 

[kunjuppu]

raju,

my mother used to say, today's God, does not wait, but punishes immediately. இந்த காலத்தே தெய்வம் உடனையே கொல்லும் !!

i have always wondered, when i see some of the dances of the folks, whether she might have had a point after all .

 

[suraju06]

The OP shared the anachronism in our community across 4 generations...There was not even an iota or tinge of remorse in what is happening...I feel that we should not get bothered about the past...The past is behind us...The future beckons us...Let us see what we can do to follow the Brahmin ethos and at the same time raise our status in this country..These are a few suggestions which are not in any order
1. Let us imbibe the spiritual ethos in spirit...In case we are violating it, can we check if our conscience allows it...There is no better gate keeper than conscience.
2. Let us not belittle our customs...We may have discarded several outdated customs because they do reflect our modern outlook and scientific temper........................................................................
............11. As far as money is concerned many have voiced an opinion that having money is not part of our Brahmin ethos...I differ on that point..On the other hand money is going to help us achieve all the above 10 and much more
Jai Hind!

Dear Vgane,

To your list if you had added these two, it would have been complete:

--Never ever encourage inter-caste or inter-religious marriage. Without being supportive of IC/IR marriages you can still be secular in outlook. We, Hindus believe (I think ours is the only religion which believes in this) that all religions lead to God and they are only different paths. Who else can be more secular than a Hindu?

--Never become greedy in pursuit of money. If you are an entrepreneur and owns an enterprise, do your work sincerely and tirelessly. If you are an executive, show your mettle in your work and be innovative. success will come your way and along with it money also.

Cheers.

 

[sangom]

Shri Raju,

Excellent post. I am looking forward to Shri.Sangom's response to the post

Dear Shri Sravna,

While I appreciate the "Mutual Help Society" approach, I don't think there is any need for me to reply to Shri raju's post. The problem has just shifted from "cribbing over the system of reservations" to "cribbing over the manner of implementation of the reservation system" that's all. Shri raju admits that "If any thing it is tabras who were instrumental in bringing the reservation system. In the committee which was constituted to draft constitution of India there were good many tabras and tey contributed substantially to the reservation system which was introduced right into the constitution."

So, to me the original constituent assembly tabras were stupid enough and so could not visualize the shape of things to come even when they had the following assessment by Churchill :-

"Power will go to the hands of rascals, rogues, freebooters; all Indian leaders will be of low caliber and men of straw. They will have sweet tongues and silly hearts. They will have sweet tongues before an election and silly hearts after coming to power. They will fight amongst themselves for power and India will be lost in political squabbles. A day would come when even air & water would be taxed in India.""
(source :google & internet)

This shows that the tabras are continuing (and will continue) to pay the price for their (tabra) leaders' shortsightedness. (May be those leaders did not possess the 'core of being a brahmin'

I have therefore nothing more to say on this topic. It is for you (or your advocate with/without vakaalat) to explain the linkage of your post # 16.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Iniyan,

Your post # 63:

Let us talk about the present. Even with good jobs Tamil Brahmin boys find it difficult to get Girls for marriage. If one does not do well materially he can forget about getting married.
You do not have any Ashrama for unmarried Boys. They have to become Grahasthas or Sannyasis.
A Brahmin has to become a Grahastha to do Samskaras.So even to be an ideal Brahmin one has to do well materially.
There are no free lunches in the modern world.

With beauty, complexion, education and job Tambra girls too find it difficult to get boys for marriage because of such unfathomable features like bad star, chevvai dosham, Rahu/ketu being inimical etc., So marriage is a different cup of tea and the determining factors are complex and many. So if we have to rue we have to do that wondering whether a new Asrama called spinster's asrama should be created.

Success in profession, doing materially well etc are important no doubt. But they need not be at the sacrifice of brahmin values. You can go to work punctually and yet do sandhi daily. Even if time does not permit there is a provision that manasIka anushatanam is enough. Can we not do that? Problem lies elsewhere. It is parents who are the culprits. They never live as examples and they never bother to tell their children either. Many parents do not spent valuable time with children. Just சாப்பிட்டயா, தண்ணி குடிச்சியா kind of small talks will not do. putting in their mind the info about good values is a difficult and daunting exercise and many parents just give up. They rather spend a lot of time disbursing stress on them about studies, examinations, marks, winning games etc.,

A balanced approach is waht is needed.

Cheers.

 

[sravna]

We live in a real world. Not an ideal world. Reservations are now a political tool. They will stay for ever. There is nothing we can do about it. As some one put it "Democracy is a tyranny of the majority". But still it is the best system that we have got. Better than Monarchy (which Hindus are very fond of), Communism and dictatorship.

Dear Shri Nacchinarkiniyan,

We lived in a real world in the past too. Only time has changed. And time changes everything. Nothing is forever.

It is ultimately the power that is vested on the ruler that draws people to politics. Such people find a way to come to power and stay in power. At least you do not have to play the dirty games on the people for that in a monarchy as you do in a democracy.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Iniyan,

Your post # 63:

Let us talk about the present. Even with good jobs Tamil Brahmin boys find it difficult to get Girls for marriage. If one does not do well materially he can forget about getting married.
You do not have any Ashrama for unmarried Boys. They have to become Grahasthas or Sannyasis.
A Brahmin has to become a Grahastha to do Samskaras.So even to be an ideal Brahmin one has to do well materially.
There are no free lunches in the modern world.

With beauty, complexion, education and job Tambra girls too find it difficult to get boys for marriage because of such unfathomable features like bad star, chevvai dosham, Rahu/ketu being inimical etc., So marriage is a different cup of tea and the determining factors are complex and many. So if we have to rue we have to do that wondering whether a new Asrama called spinster's asrama should be created.

Success in profession, doing materially well etc are important no doubt. But they need not be at the sacrifice of brahmin values. You can go to work punctually and yet do sandhi daily. Even if time does not permit there is a provision that manasIka anushatanam is enough. Can we not do that? Problem lies elsewhere. It is parents who are the culprits. They never live as examples and they never bother to tell their children either. Many parents do not spent valuable time with children. Just சாப்பிட்டயா, தண்ணி குடிச்சியா kind of small talks will not do. putting in their mind the info about good values is a difficult and daunting exercise and many parents just give up. They rather spend a lot of time disbursing stress on them about studies, examinations, marks, winning games etc.,

A balanced approach is waht is needed.

Cheers.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Dear Vgane,

To your list if you had added these two, it would have been complete:

--Never ever encourage inter-caste or inter-religious marriage. Without being supportive of IC/IR marriages you can still be secular in outlook. We, Hindus believe (I think ours is the only religion which believes in this) that all religions lead to God and they are only different paths. Who else can be more secular than a Hindu?

--Never become greedy in pursuit of money. If you are an entrepreneur and owns an enterprise, do your work sincerely and tirelessly. If you are an executive, show your mettle in your work and be innovative. success will come your way and along with it money also.

Cheers.

I would disagree in the inter-caste marriage aspect.

A Brahmin needs a wife to do Samskaras. Needs a Putra/Putri to do Shraddha for him. This is especially true of Brahmins who have firm belief about these samskaras.

He can not do these without a wife. He can do the samskaras even if the wife is not a born Brahmin. His Putra/Putri can perform Anthyeshti and shraddha for him even if the wife is not a Brahmin.

I think Proloma marriages are approved as per our scriptures. May be sangom or any other member can throw some light on Proloma marriage.

We need not encourage inter-caste marriages. But I firmly believe that a Brahmin should get married. Even if the girl is not a Brahmin. It is not the question of secularism. Marriage is necessary for one to be considered a Brahmin.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Brahmins are least harmful people, if one has honest opinion. There had been bad practices which continued and resulted in hatred between the Tamil people (others are also not excluded). In Brahmins there were 'weak' people who were not following the customs but at the same time wanted to enjoy the benefits others got. In non-Brahmin groups there were 'weak' people who by their own discretion separated themselves. Thus a large canvas was drawn out for political situations in which both the two weak groups became very powerful and they are here today inmindful of what they had done. Brahmins are Brahmins (if they are Brahmins) and non-Brahmins are non-Brahmins. Each is not inferior to the other. Yes Brahmins use their own style of Tamil talking to themselves. But here again you will find difference between Thanjavur Brahmin and Tirunelveli Brahmins, Kongu Brahmins and Madras Brahmins, Other Brahmins and Palakkad Brahmins. And if anybody has self-respect, the language they use is polished and distinctly respectful. Now there is a new North Indian Tamil. What anybody can do about it. I do not know any other community that derides itself as bad as this squirming community.