Progression or Erosion of Brahmin Ethos?

[suraju06]

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Dear Shri Sravna,

While I appreciate the "Mutual Help Society" approach, I don't think there is any need for me to reply to Shri raju's post. The problem has just shifted from "cribbing over the system of reservations" to "cribbing over the manner of implementation of the reservation system" that's all. Shri raju admits that "If any thing it is tabras who were instrumental in bringing the reservation system. In the committee which was constituted to draft constitution of India there were good many tabras and tey contributed substantially to the reservation system which was introduced right into the constitution."
So, to me the original constituent assembly tabras were stupid enough and so could not visualize the shape of things to come even when they had the following assessment by Churchill :-
"Power will go to the hands of rascals, rogues, freebooters; all Indian leaders will be of low caliber and men of straw. They will have sweet tongues and silly hearts. They will have sweet tongues before an election and silly hearts after coming to power. They will fight amongst themselves for power and India will be lost in political squabbles. A day would come when even air & water would be taxed in India.""
(source :google & internet)
This shows that the tabras are continuing (and will continue) to pay the price for their (tabra) leaders' shortsightedness. (May be those leaders did not possess the 'core of being a brahmin'
I have therefore nothing more to say on this topic. It is for you (or your advocate with/without vakaalat) to explain the linkage of your post # 16.

I am amused. The lone warrior fighting his battle single handedly against a formidable "mutual help society", the hapless brilliant lawyer finally giving up and surrendering his brief leaving the client in lurch and to the fate of an expartee judgment. These are the images projected though they are not relevant here. And what more:

That racist from the Sandhurst Military academy, the butcher of Africa Sir winston Churchill is quoted here as if his words are gospel. Please read the following to know the true face of Churchill who is not worth quoting anywhere in decent circles.

According to a new book on the Bengal famine (1943), Sir Winston ignored pleas for emergency food aid for millions in Bengal left to starve as their rice paddies were turned over to jute for sandbag production and supplies of rice from Burma stopped after Japanese occupation.Between one and three million died of hunger in 1943.The wartime leader said Britain could not spare the ships to transport emergency supplies as the streets of Calcutta filled with emaciated villagers from the surrounding countryside, but author Madhusree Mukerjee has unearthed new documents which challenge his claim.

In her book, Churchill's Secret War, she cites ministry records and personal papers which reveal ships carrying cereals from Australia were bypassed India on their way to the Mediterranean where supplies were already abundant.

"It wasn't a question of Churchill being inept: sending relief to Bengal was raised repeatedly and he and his close associates thwarted every effort," the author said.

• "The United States and Australia offered to send help but couldn't because the war cabinet was not willing to release ships. And when the US offered to send grain on its own ships, that offer was not followed up by the British," she added.

The man-made famine and the contrast between the plight of starving Indians and well-fed British officers dining in the city's many colonial clubs has been described as one of the darkest chapters in British rule on the Indian subcontinent.
He derided Gandhi as a "half-naked holy man" and once said: "I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion."

I reiterate, India is lucky in that it has brahmins who are always balanced in their outlook, satvik in quality, endowed with farsight and peaceloving and intelligent. But for their contributions India would have long back vanished from the world map as a nation.
It does not matter what doubting thomases and self loathing individuals have to say.

Cheers.

 

[tbs]

I am amused. The lone warrior fighting his battle single handedly against a formidable "mutual help society", the hapless brilliant lawyer finally giving up and surrendering his brief leaving the client in lurch and to the fate of an expartee judgment. These are the images projected though they are not relevant here. And what more:

That racist from the Sandhurst Military academy, the butcher of Africa Sir winston Churchill is quoted here as if his words are gospel. Please read the following to know the true face of Churchill who is not worth quoting anywhere in decent circles.

According to a new book on the Bengal famine (1943), Sir Winston ignored pleas for emergency food aid for millions in Bengal left to starve as their rice paddies were turned over to jute for sandbag production and supplies of rice from Burma stopped after Japanese occupation.Between one and three million died of hunger in 1943.The wartime leader said Britain could not spare the ships to transport emergency supplies as the streets of Calcutta filled with emaciated villagers from the surrounding countryside, but author Madhusree Mukerjee has unearthed new documents which challenge his claim.

In her book, Churchill's Secret War, she cites ministry records and personal papers which reveal ships carrying cereals from Australia were bypassed India on their way to the Mediterranean where supplies were already abundant.

"It wasn't a question of Churchill being inept: sending relief to Bengal was raised repeatedly and he and his close associates thwarted every effort," the author said.

• "The United States and Australia offered to send help but couldn't because the war cabinet was not willing to release ships. And when the US offered to send grain on its own ships, that offer was not followed up by the British," she added.

The man-made famine and the contrast between the plight of starving Indians and well-fed British officers dining in the city's many colonial clubs has been described as one of the darkest chapters in British rule on the Indian subcontinent.
He derided Gandhi as a "half-naked holy man" and once said: "I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion."

I reiterate, India is lucky in that it has brahmins who are always balanced in their outlook, satvik in quality, endowed with farsight and peaceloving and intelligent. But for their contributions India would have long back vanished from the world map as a nation.
It does not matter what doubting thomases and self loathing individuals have to say.

Cheers.

hi suraju sir,
.
I reiterate, India is lucky in that it has brahmins who are always balanced in their outlook, satvik in quality, endowed with farsight and peaceloving and intelligent. But for their contributions India would have long back vanished from the world map as a nation.
It does not matter what doubting thomases and self loathing individuals have to say.


nice words...very true too..

 

[sarang]

Still, I don't see any clash in following brahminical values and traditions, and pursuing modern professional life.

Sarang,
Let us talk about the present. Even with good jobs Tamil Brahmin boys find it difficult to get Girls for marriage. If one does not do well materially he can forget about getting married.

You do not have any Ashrama for unmarried Boys. They have to become Grahasthas or Sannyasis.

A Brahmin has to become a Grahastha to do Samskaras.

So even to be an ideal Brahmin one has to do well materially.

There are no free lunches in the modern world.

 

[Govinda]

I would disagree in the inter-caste marriage aspect.

A Brahmin needs a wife to do Samskaras. Needs a Putra/Putri to do Shraddha for him. This is especially true of Brahmins who have firm belief about these samskaras.

He can not do these without a wife. He can do the samskaras even if the wife is not a born Brahmin. His Putra/Putri can perform Anthyeshti and shraddha for him even if the wife is not a Brahmin.

I think Proloma marriages are approved as per our scriptures. May be sangom or any other member can throw some light on Proloma marriage.

We need not encourage inter-caste marriages. But I firmly believe that a Brahmin should get married. Even if the girl is not a Brahmin. It is not the question of secularism. Marriage is necessary for one to be considered a Brahmin.

Are we in such a drought for Brahmin girls? I know of so many simple, poor, nice girls, who married late. Becos, last generation, our rich/middle class Brahmin mAmis wanted rich girls
with loads of dowry for their sons. Why dont they opt for those poor girls for a valuable Brahmin life. Charity begins at home, buddy!.

Seems like Karma bites back (but may be different set of people). Now, we see a revenge for this. The educated girls with bland PhD wants only PhD guys, however rich or high earners.

Draw a line now. Change your attitude for what is true need of the hour. Don't compromise on principles. A Brahmin man needs a Brahmin girl for real anushtAnams, else it is no different from choosing chicken over lentils.

Overtime, a decade from now, we would have had a more simple, valuable society.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sangom,

My response in blue.


I also agree that each human is unique. But how do you think a government or administration should manage crores of such unique humans by developing solutions based on this fact (truth, in your words)? I feel it will be humanly impossible. That is why, as a workable proposition, the idea of equality before law has come into being. This means that the law will not differentiate between one person and another when judging the crime against an accused and the punishment to be meted out.

I am not saying anything against the equality before law. That indeed should be the case. What I am saying is that let us not make the assumption that all are equal with regard to the nature of talent that is possessed. The assessments that are currently used to find out the aptitude of a person , in my view are just a little deeper than shallow and do not really separate the different talents. A really fundamental distinction would be, say between the one who mainly trusts and succeeds based on intuition and the one who strictly goes by logic. We can have finer distinctions among these types. As you say government cannot cater to or develop solutions tailored to each individual but at least it can rightly differentiate talents and hence make an effective use of talents for the improvement of society.


You suddenly jump from uniqueness of individuals to "the problems of the society". This looks strange; if once we harp on "developing solutions based on the truth that each human being is unique", where is the relevance of society? And, if society is taken as the unit, what happens to the uniqueness of the individual humans? This needs rethinking on your part, imo.


As I have mentioned above the point is to use talents effectively for the improvement of society. Certain group of persons may be suited for scientific tasks and certain others for advisory ones. The good thing about talents being unique or different is that, the different problems of society can be solved by persons who are competent to solve them.


You have to clarify the nebulous statements like "the higher values and thinking that were conceptualized in India" (OK, whether they were practised, and, if yes, in what manner?),


Yes they did practice them. For example, in the field of medicine, the remedies were based on the premise that there are different types of constitutions of the body unlike the remedies of the modern medicine which treats every human body as the same.


"They saw the reality and proposed solutions based on the reality."(once again, you have not spelt out clearly what was the "reality" and what were the solutions),


The reality was that not all are born the same and the solutions were systems that were developed based on this reality.

what is meant by"the thinking of the rest of the world",


The thinking of the rest of the world especially the west is that a human is like a machine and that one machine is no different from the rest.


My dear Sravna,

How do you say, even after so many discussions in this forum, that some community - brahmins or any other - happened to be occupying the higher echelons of the society due to their contributions to the society? Taking brahmins as one example, the view put forward by the pro-brahmin sections in this forum has been that the powerful Kshatriyas made the poor, spineless brahmins to make rules in such a way that the Kshatriyas (and probably the ancient Vaisyas too) remained at the helm, and as a quid pro quo, the hapless scribes that the brahmins were, were given the place of reverence apparently although in truth the kshatriyas and vaisyas cared two hoots for the brahmins, despite whatever evidence one may find to the contrary, in our scriptures. When such arguments were being forcefully put forward in the past, I never saw you coming in and saying boldly that brahmins did occupy the higher echelons because of their significant contributions to the society and not merely as meek servants of the powerful NB classes. Hence, it is not correct now to bring in the brahmin community in this discussion.


I did not just mention brahmins but mentioned that other groups have also undergone changes just as brahmins have. But the fact is brahmins have deviated the most qualitatively from their ethos.



Reading both the above sentences, in the background of your other arguments, I get the feeling that unless the brahmin community is treated like a constantly fondled, darling child of the society, it will be left with no ethos. Truth at last?


The brahmins have never been fondled. It is others who are being fondled and expect that to continue forever. That really is the truth.

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Sravna,
Is there equality ever possible? There should be equality in opportunity, equality before God and law. But no two person will be equal.

 

[sravna]

Mr. Sravna,
Is there equality ever possible? There should be equality in opportunity, equality before God and law. But no two person will be equal.

Dear Shri Prasad,

Why the attempt to create artificial equalities? Two persons may be different in a number of aspects and still both of them be accomplished in their own ways. Equality before law and God ensures that people are not treated differentially based on their deviations.

 

[renuka]

I would disagree in the inter-caste marriage aspect.

A Brahmin needs a wife to do Samskaras. Needs a Putra/Putri to do Shraddha for him. This is especially true of Brahmins who have firm belief about these samskaras.

He can not do these without a wife. He can do the samskaras even if the wife is not a born Brahmin. His Putra/Putri can perform Anthyeshti and shraddha for him even if the wife is not a Brahmin.

I think Proloma marriages are approved as per our scriptures. May be sangom or any other member can throw some light on Proloma marriage.

We need not encourage inter-caste marriages. But I firmly believe that a Brahmin should get married. Even if the girl is not a Brahmin. It is not the question of secularism. Marriage is necessary for one to be considered a Brahmin.

Dear Sir,

I am no expert on this matter but as far as I know of... children of Anuloma marriages of the Brahmin Father -Non Brahmin Mother kind.....the child is not considered a Brahmin with the exception of the case of a Brahmin father and a Kshatriya Mother where the child is called a Brahmakshatriya and considered a Brahmin.

But for all other Brahmin Father Non Brahmin Mother situations there is a terminology for each type and they are not considered Brahmins.

I have a feeling that Brahmin Father - Kshatriya Mother children were given Brahmin status becos in the past Sages married princess very often.

Many sages had Kshatriya wives hence may be these group alone were given Brahmin status.

So it might not be a real religious reason for this..but rather a political reason since Brahmins and Kshatriyas of yesteryears were always interdependent on each other.

Some might argue that a Kshatriya is also a twice born hence the child of a Brahmin Father-Kshatriya Mother is given Brahmin Status but a Vaishya is also a twice born but the Brahmin Father Vaisya Mother child is called a Ambashta and not given Brahmin status.

Sages never/rarely married Vaishya women in the past as far as I know of...so may be thats why this group was not given Brahmin status.

But there is an exception though in Mahabharat..Vyasa was son of a Brahmin and a Sudra Mother(Fisherlady Satyavati) so techinically Vyasa should have been known as Nishada but he was still conferred Brahmin status owing to the fact that Sathyavati was actually a Kshatriya woman who got lost as a child and was brought up by a fisherman.

anyway the list of Anuloma and Pratiloma is as follows:


Brahmana + Kshatriya =Brahmakshatriya

Brahmana +Vaishya = Ambastha

Brahmana + Shudra = Nishada

Kshatriya + Brahmana = Suta

Kshatriya + Vaishya =Mahisya

Kshatriya + Shudra = Ugra

Vaishya + Brahmana = Vaidehaka


Vaishya + Kshatriya = Magadha


Vaishya + Shudra = Karana

Shudra + Brahmana = Chandala

Shudra + Kshatriya = Ksattri


Shudra + Vaishya = Ayogava


Going by the list of combinations above..it seems ancient India would have been a genetic cocktail..so only our DNA will tell who is really what.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Thank You, Renuka for the information.

It has been noticed by historians that the latter Dharmasasthras were very rigid about the caste system than the earlier ones. Manu allowed inter-caste marriages. But the later Dharmasasthras totally prohibited it.

Veda Vyasas's story indicated the adaptability of the caste syatem during that time. Mahabharata predates the Dharma sasthras. The story of Sathyavati being a Kshatriya is a later day சப்பைக் கட்டு.

More than anyone else in the case of these Boys It is Adapt or Perish. The Kula will end with them.

What is the community doing for them? Nothing. I saw from one of the threads how the forum members even refuse to accept that there is a problem. Like ostriches burying their head in the sand.

What about the Acharyas? Long back one of the most revered Acharyas went on record as saying that "It is better for the community to become extinct than change/relax any of the rules."

Would these boys or their families break the taboo? No. They would not. Because they are Sattvic. They do not have the guts to break the rules or face the consequences.

So the Middle class ( I would classify any one earning upto Rs. 40000 P.M as Middle class) and the lower middle class who are the backbone of the Brahmin society and who are the very people who do their Nityanushtana Karmas and still lead/try to lead a Brahminical way of life are being wiped out.

Do we care?

 

[tbs]

hi
always middle class has to do in any challenge in the society....becoz upper class money power.....lower class muscle power...

but middle class no power....just TRISANGU SWARGAM......NA GHAR KA NA GHAAT KA....

 

[sarang]

Quite interesting. As of today, there is no distinct or significant difference in the DNA make up. Some one has to come up with a sub genetic dna theory to show more light.

Going by the list of combinations above..it seems ancient India would have been a genetic cocktail..so only our DNA will tell who is really what.

 

[renuka]

Veda Vyasas's story indicated the adaptability of the caste syatem during that time. Mahabharata predates the Dharma sasthras. The story of Sathyavati being a Kshatriya is a later day சப்பைக் கட்டு.

Dear Sir,

Not really I feel..cos you see in the case of Vidura..even though his genetic father was Vyasa but owing to the fact that Vidura's mother was a Sudra ..Vidura was only given Sudra status.

So there seems to be exception in the case of Veda Vyasa's birth alone..so his mother Sathyavati could have been a Kshatriya by birth for all we know.

 

[renuka]

Quite interesting. As of today, there is no distinct or significant difference in the DNA make up. Some one has to come up with a sub genetic dna theory to show more light.

Dear Sarang ji,

When I went for world Sanskrit fair in Indian a few years back..mainly Brahmins from all over India were running the show.
TBs were also there.

I could not help notice that each Brahmin from each state of India had looks that resembled the people from their own state.

I could make out from one look who was a North Indian Brahmin and who was a South Indian Brahmin at one look.

Among the South Indian Brahmins..I could make out even who was TB and who was not even before I heard anyone speak Iyer Bhasa.

So that itself proves a lot of genetic intermingling.

Coming to DNA study there has been a study that shows some distinctive features among the upper caste/middle caste but with also intermingling factors similar to the general population lower caste...in other words no one is as pure.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

It is not as if this problem is faced by only the Brahmin community. Other small communities like the saiva Vellala Pillais and Chettiars also face this problem.

In another twenty to thirty years or even less the NRI Brahmins are going to face this problem. No U.S born girl/boy would like to get married to an Indian. Their choice is also limited because the numbers are limited. The older generation Tamil Brahmins (those who went to U.S in the sixties) have seen their children getting married to non-Brahmins. Most of them only wish they would get married to Hindus and NRIs.

All the smaller communities all over the world have faced and or facing this problem. Ask the Italian American , the Irish American.

The Parsees being a very small community solved this problem in their own way. A Parsee Boy could get married to any one from any community. The children are still considered Parsees. Of course it has helped them survive so far. But their numbers are dwindling.

You can not stop the march of time.

 

[renuka]

It is not as if this problem is faced by only the Brahmin community. Other small communities like the saiva Vellala Pillais and Chettiars also face this problem.

In another twenty to thirty years or even less the NRI Brahmins are going to face this problem. No U.S born girl/boy would like to get married to an Indian. Their choice is also limited because the numbers are limited. The older generation Tamil Brahmins (those who went to U.S in the sixties) have seen their children getting married to non-Brahmins. Most of them only wish they would get married to Hindus and NRIs.

All the smaller communities all over the world have faced and or facing this problem. Ask the Italian American , the Irish American.

The Parsees being a very small community solved this problem in their own way. A Parsee Boy could get married to any one from any community. The children are still considered Parsees. Of course it has helped them survive so far. But their numbers are dwindling.

You can not stop the march of time.

That's why we have the saying Vasuidaiva Kutumbakam!LOL

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Dear Sarang ji,

When I went for world Sanskrit fair in Indian a few years back..mainly Brahmins from all over India were running the show.
TBs were also there.

I could not help notice that each Brahmin from each state of India had looks that resembled the people from their own state.

I could make out from one look who was a North Indian Brahmin and who was a South Indian Brahmin at one look.

Among the South Indian Brahmins..I could make out even who was TB and who was not even before I heard anyone speak Iyer Bhasa.

So that itself proves a lot of genetic intermingling.

Coming to DNA study there has been a study that shows some distinctive features among the upper caste/middle caste but with also intermingling factors similar to the general population lower caste...in other words no one is as pure.

Your conclusions are surprising to say the least. If you had met my grand mother, you would have never thought she is a Brahmin. She was black, short and fat. My grandfather was as fair as an Anglo Indian.

I will narrate a couple of instances how this sort of conclusions are invariably wrong.

Long back I had attended a party given by one of my clients to a B.B.C team in Kottayam. It was attended by many of the big wigs in Politics. The topic after dinner turned to caste system. One individual who was considered the intellectual leader of the Communists, was telling the B.B.C team that the Dalits belonged to a different race. He was telling them that he could recognize a Dalit anywhere because of the facial characteristics. I challenged him. I asked him to identify my caste or even religion. I had a beard at that time. He could not. I told the B.B.C team that what he was saying was wrong. I asked them to take a trip to Tallicherry where the local Thiyas were all very fair.

Some years back we were traveling by a taxi in Kolkata. When the taxi dropped us off, the driver spoke some sentences. Then he told my wife "See. I know your language." We were surprised because we could not understand him. Then we asked him what the language was. He said proudly "Nepali."

Throughout my decades of stay in North India people tell me "you can not be a South Indian. Your are fair." They think all South Indians are black.

My wife was called Settu Veettu Amma by some of the locals in Nungambakkam, Chennai. Settu means Marwari.

All of us have fixed ideas of how some community should look like. That does not prove anything.

 

[renuka]

Your conclusions are surprising to say the least. If you had met my grand mother, you would have never thought she is a Brahmin. She was black, short and fat. My grandfather was as fair as an Anglo Indian.

I will narrate a couple of instances how this sort of conclusions are invariably wrong.

Long back I had attended a party given by one of my clients to a B.B.C team in Kottayam. It was attended by many of the big wigs in Politics. The topic after dinner turned to caste system. One individual who was considered the intellectual leader of the Communists, was telling the B.B.C team that the Dalits belonged to a different race. He was telling them that he could recognize a Dalit anywhere because of the facial characteristics. I challenged him. I asked him to identify my caste or even religion. I had a beard at that time. He could not. I told the B.B.C team that what he was saying was wrong. I asked them to take a trip to Tallicherry where the local Thiyas were all very fair.

Some years back we were traveling by a taxi in Kolkata. When the taxi dropped us off, the driver spoke some sentences. Then he told my wife "See. I know your language." We were surprised because we could not understand him. Then we asked him what the language was. He said proudly "Nepali."

Throughout my decades of stay in North India people tell me "you can not be a South Indian. Your are fair." They think all South Indians are black.

My wife was called Settu Veettu Amma by some of the locals in Nungambakkam, Chennai. Settu means Marwari.

All of us have fixed ideas of how some community should look like. That does not prove anything.

Dear Sir,

I was not really talking about skin color..the basic features does differ from state to state.

A dark skinned North Indian will have different features from a dark skinned South Indian.

I have many patients here from Punjab who are clean shaven Sikhs who are also dark in complexion. They do not look like South Indians at all.

If you observe carefully..facial features..face shape..North Indians esp those from Punjab have longer face shape with prominent features even though they might be dark.
Forensic racial profiling will classify these type of face as Dolicocephalic.

On the other hand even a very fair South Indian of any caste most of the while have less prominent features with a shorter rounder face.

I did not include skin color in my identification of various types of Indians.

Skin color can differ as night and day in any one caste or community.

So we should all start observing skull shapes to know more..I love observing skull shape and jaw bone and also features.

 

[sarang]

If a parsee girl marries a non parsee, she is no longer a parsee. Only last year, amendment to allow conversion and girls marrying out to retain their religion was rejected by the the high priests, despite support from a majority of community members.

The Parsees being a very small community solved this problem in their own way. A Parsee Boy could get married to any one from any community. The children are still considered Parsees. Of course it has helped them survive so far. But their numbers are dwindling.

You can not stop the march of time.

 

[sarang]

If a parsee girl marries a non parsee, she is no longer a parsee. Only last year, amendment to allow conversion and girls marrying out to retain their religion was rejected by the the high priests, despite support from a majority of community members.

The Parsees being a very small community solved this problem in their own way. A Parsee Boy could get married to any one from any community. The children are still considered Parsees. Of course it has helped them survive so far. But their numbers are dwindling.

You can not stop the march of time.

 

[renuka]

Frankly speaking we humans do not have to worry..warm blooded creatures like us with no known predator besides Mother Nature and our Karma will not easily go extinct like Dinosaurs.

There is a village in Morena,Madhya Pradesh where due to acute gender imbalance...girls less than boys..polyandry up to 10 husbands for a woman is being practiced!

They have surely devised a way to make sure their lineage continues.

Check out this link:

Weird True Facts | Watch the video - Yahoo! India

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Dear Sir,

I was not really talking about skin color..the basic features does differ from state to state.

A dark skinned North Indian will have different features from a dark skinned South Indian.

I have many patients here from Punjab who are clean shaven Sikhs who are also dark in complexion. They do not look like South Indians at all.

If you observe carefully..facial features..face shape..North Indians esp those from Punjab have longer face shape with prominent features even though they might be dark.
Forensic racial profiling will classify these type of face as Dolicocephalic.

On the other hand even a very fair South Indian of any caste most of the while have less prominent features with a shorter rounder face.

I did not include skin color in my identification of various types of Indians.

Skin color can differ as night and day in any one caste or community.

So we should all start observing skull shapes to know more..I love observing skull shape and jaw bone and also features.

I am sorry. You are totally wrong. This is your impression.

Especially the difference between North Indians and South Indians makes me laugh. K.V. Kamath one of our well known journalists wrote once about this. He was a Konkani Brahmin. Since he was in Bombay, he was a North Indian. His brother who is in Bangalore is considered a South Indian. The person who says in Visakapatnam is a South Indian. But the person who is in Kolhapur (Maharashtra) is considered a North Indian. Viskapatnam is more North geographically than Kolhapur.

I do not think there is any feature which can differentiate between the so called North Indians and the so called South Indians. This is a myth created by the Tamil Nadu Dravidian politicians.

Now in Mumbai we have agitations against North Indians. But for the average Tamilian the Maharshtrians are themselves North Indians.

I am almost fed up of Bengali Doctors in Kolkata talking to us in Bengali assuming that we are Bengalis. Gijaratis talking to us in Gujarati and worst of all Tamil Brahmin women in the Kolkata Sankara math talking to us in Bengali.

Satatistically your sample is large enough or random enough to draw any conclusion.

You had said earlier

Coming to DNA study there has been a study that shows some distinctive features among the upper caste/middle caste but with also intermingling factors similar to the general population lower caste.

Problem with such studies is it is restricted to the place where the study was conducted. You can not take one study and apply it to the whole of India. India is too diverse for that.

For example we see many articles in the times of India about studies which prove "Seventy percent of Indian women are abused at Home". The study is conducted in a locality in New Delhi. To apply this to all Over India is preposterous. But it makes the headlines.

Almost all the studies regarding DNA suffer from this defect. It would cost hundreds of crores of rupees to collect random samples from Kashmir to Kanyakumari. And it would take decades.

I have studied, worked and stayed all over India fro more than 50 years.

 

[renuka]

I am sorry. You are totally wrong. This is your impression.

Especially the difference between North Indians and South Indians makes me laugh. K.V. Kamath one of our well known journalists wrote once about this. He was a Konkani Brahmin. Since he was in Bombay, he was a North Indian. His brother who is in Bangalore is considered a South Indian. The person who says in Visakapatnam is a South Indian. But the person who is in Kolhapur (Maharashtra) is considered a North Indian. Viskapatnam is more North geographically than Kolhapur.

I do not think there is any feature which can differentiate between the so called North Indians and the so called South Indians. This is a myth created by the Tamil Nadu Dravidian politicians.

Now in Mumbai we have agitations against North Indians. But for the average Tamilian the Maharshtrians are themselves North Indians.

I am almost fed up of Bengali Doctors in Kolkata talking to us in Bengali assuming that we are Bengalis. Gijaratis talking to us in Gujarati and worst of all Tamil Brahmin women in the Kolkata Sankara math talking to us in Bengali.

Satatistically your sample is large enough or random enough to draw any conclusion.

You had said earlier


Problem with such studies is it is restricted to the place where the study was conducted. You can not take one study and apply it to the whole of India. India is too diverse for that.

For example we see many articles in the times of India about studies which prove "Seventy percent of Indian women are abused at Home". The study is conducted in a locality in New Delhi. To apply this to all Over India is preposterous. But it makes the headlines.

Almost all the studies regarding DNA suffer from this defect. It would cost hundreds of crores of rupees to collect random samples from Kashmir to Kanyakumari. And it would take decades.

I have studied, worked and stayed all over India fro more than 50 years.

Dear Sir,

Forensic skull shapes differ from racial and community stock.

Some South Indians and North Indians might resemble each other and vice versa and there are extreme cases of exceptions too.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Dear Sir,

Forensic skull shapes differ from racial and community stock.

Some South Indians and North Indians might resemble each other and vice versa and there are extreme cases of exceptions too.

You are still talking about South Indians and North Indians. These are terms which have not been defined. As I said earlier this is the propaganda of the Tamil Dravidian politicians.

And you are talking about race.

I am sorry. You seem to have ben brainwashed by the Dravidian political propaganda.

There is no racial difference between South Indians and North Indians.

The subject is closed because I do not discuss racial politics. This is not a forum for Racial Propaganda.

 

[renuka]

I am almost fed up of Bengali Doctors in Kolkata talking to us in Bengali assuming that we are Bengalis. Gijaratis talking to us in Gujarati and worst of all Tamil Brahmin women in the Kolkata Sankara math talking to us in Bengali.

LOL! When I go to India when a Tamilian meets me he/she speaks to me in Tamil.

The Auto drivers in Blore speak in Kannada.

When a North Indian meets me he/she speaks in Hindi becos people prefer to speak in their mother tongue.

The North Indians know by one look that I am South Indian but speak to me in Hindi becos they expect everyone to know Hindi.

BTW the shop sales persons in Blore/Chennai one look at us Malaysian Indians they just know we are from Msia even though we might be dressed in a salwar kameez.

I wonder why you say it is not possible to detect someone's community be looking at their faces.

I can detect by just one look out here who is a Gounder,Thevar,Padayachi,Nair,Menon too.

Even in India my fellow Indian friends too could detect a person's community just by looking at their faces.

 

[renuka]

You are still talking about South Indians and North Indians. These are terms which have not been defined. As I said earlier this is the propaganda of the Tamil Dravidian politicians.

And you are talking about race.

I am sorry. You seem to have ben brainwashed by the Dravidian political propaganda.

There is no racial difference between South Indians and North Indians.

The subject is closed because I do not discuss racial politics. This is not a forum for Racial Propaganda.

Dear Sir,

I am not brain washed by any politician..I am not an Indian citizen to start with.

I was just talking about genetic stock/forensic skull shape difference and just to add Rh Negative blood is more common in North of India.

I was giving all my views purely from the medico point of view.

I hope you don't get me wrong.