Racism in the west - why so many Indians, minorities, etc. tolerate/live with it ??

[renuka]

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Yes, we are proud TBs but with no malice or castiest intention to anyone. And we as in all Indians will not bow to any foreigner now or ever!!!

Why the hell should we put up with racists comments, fights, physical attacks, stares, etc… today, we are not in a desperate situation like the pre-liberalization era. So there is absolutely no need to put up with crap..

It is important to educate the larger Indian community not to fall for this American/western education & the so called dream life !!

Kids do not have any knowledge of the terrible ghost called racism in the USA/Europe/West when they leave @ 18 yrs, or in their 20sfor higher education!! So it is important to talk about it so that they are fully aware of what they are getting into. It is important for their parents to know what kind of treatment awaits these kids in the USA.

This awareness also will cut off the white skin obsession many have due to colonial hangover !! I mean when our hero Nehru found it a great prestige to tell people that he is having an affair with Lady Mountbatten a white lady that too when his wife was fully well & alive, what can we say for innocent poor Indians !! LOL !!

dear Jk,

Some long back I remember you telling me that TBs dont really need India that much..I clearly remember you saying that these days TBs have one leg in the USA and one leg in India..and I asked you "so which country is the middle section of the body?"LOL


So JK ji..if one wants to have legs here and there..they cant expect it to be smooth sailing.

Or are you seeking glorification where ever you go and miss being on top of the food chain?

BTW an affair with a white does not mean white skin obsession..affairs just happen.

Skin color has nothing to do with attraction.

 

[krish44]

very interesting post no 48

Indian bosses In IT companies and MNCs have a peculiar mindset of superiority and treat those who work for them badly.

in fact these subordinates are not supposed to leave their offices until the indian boss leaves for home

most of lower level employees prefer to work for overseas arm of the same companies with white bosses and better work culture and working hours

sooner or later I am sure there will be visible changes on the ground in india and Indians will produce IT products of higher standards given the right oppurtunity and working conditions

state of indian defence Rand D set ups are dismal . unless they are freed from bureaucratic control and structured like atomic energy or space , there is no future for them

I am sure changes will get made in times to come .

when we have been able to make progress in atomic energy and space , why not in other fields.

IMHO all this talk about corruption and self loathing is irrelevant as far as science and technology is concerned nor religion has anything to do with the performance of our

youngsters.

these are favourite topics of our senior citizens for discussion in this forum and have no utility in india of the future

 

[auh]

when people are dying of hunger, I don't think they will have time for common courtesies !!! This is what all races did when they were struggling. Nothing great about any of them !!!

I think this should answer the concern raised in the op. When one is living affluently and in a good environment, why should they return to India? An India of hunger, death, abuse, dirt and tension, 24X7X365. Everywhere one turns, a confrontation is waiting to collide head on.

Racism and abuse, if it happens, would not be an issue to Indians since it is only 67 years post independence, prior to which we were subdued by various empires. Moreover, discriminations of various types in the name of religion, caste, customs & traditions, and colour existed before and even now as well. What more, today there is even political discrimination... or call it reverse discrimination. The tambrahms of TN did not fight the DK anti-brahmin tirade, rather chose to move out silently where their wares sold.

Rather bear the racism silently, should it happen, and brush it off, to live in a much developed society than return to India and get even more worse treatment on a minute-by-minute basis ! It is not a surprising choice at all.

 

[auh]

...But after some decades and with more and more Indians (both Northies and Southies) getting to higher echelons like group leaders, managers and higher positions, the behaviour of these Indian bosses has been consistently feudal and they always view and teat their subordinates as no more than orderlies or factotums.

Indians abroad, at least in the UAE, in what I have seen, tend to exhibit dichotomy in their behaviour and attitude - one for the "gora/arab" and the other for the "sub-continental". Both, bosses and their staff, behave differently to different nationalities and the Indian sub-ordinates, within his quarters, plays the overlord in whatever way he can!

 

[sravna]

Anyone who exhibits more than the due feelings of something is making up for something he lacks. I do not think there is much that needs to be made of such exhibition of superiority. In a lighter vein, we need to be really worried if the whites do not display superiority feelings. As long as such display does not significantly interfere with out lives, let it just go as harmless for us.

 

[krish44]

dear Jk,

Some long back I remember you telling me that TBs dont really need India that much..I clearly remember you saying that these days TBs have one leg in the USA and one leg in India..and I asked you "so which country is the middle section of the body?"LOL


So JK ji..if one wants to have legs here and there..they cant expect it to be smooth sailing.

Or are you seeking glorification where ever you go and miss being on top of the food chain?

BTW an affair with a white does not mean white skin obsession..affairs just happen.

Skin color has nothing to do with attraction.

I have my reservations about the last two lines.

What is an affair first - simplistically getting attracted to a person and getting into a relationship which may not be legal or have the sanction of society at large

what can attract -physical looks including colour ,features,size ,shape ,mannerisms , inter personal behaviour and a feeling that the other party could/would

reciprocate for an inter personal relationship which could be physically ,intellectually ,emotionally satisfying

as such affair does not rule out white coloured . it could be one of the reasons for attraction besides other reasons

 

[renuka]

as such affair does not rule out white coloured . it could be one of the reasons for attraction besides other reasons

May be so happened the white colored person was also attractive to start with.

Skin color alone does not make one attractive..

We have seen many actresses who are very fair but not good looking.

For example Devayani is very fair but rather homely plain looking with very rounded features and not a well defined nose.

Actress Deepika Padukone is not fair but Tan and she looks drop dead gorgeous with sharp features.

 

[Jaykay767]

Renuka, yes, the fact is today many TBs have one leg here & one leg abroad. But time has come to evaluate is it worth going to west & settling down given the widespread racism !! Is the west money & lifestyle worth our self respect, our dignity, our lives??If our youngsters know the true situation, they will not bother to go abroad. The whole abroad going business was fueled by the oldies who were disgruntled with India’s progress. However if people know they are going to exchange a first class life with a third class life, they will change their opinions & make a life here in India !!

 

[prasad1]

One with a 3rd class mentality is caged in his own mentality. If one is a doormat others will wipe their feet, it is natural. The respect and satisfaction one has in their own setting is much better than in any other place.
When you live in North India and travel to Chennai, you see the insulting conditions. May be people in Chennai are used to it. In the north even your own child is addressed with respect, the tone in Chennai everyday is degrading. The rickshaw wala, the vegetable vendor, the maid servants, etc behave so badly that if it was Delhi, there would be bloodbath.



If you carry the dung yourself you will smell dung everywhere.

 

[Jaykay767]

No doubt, those who are used to a third class life under the whites will have third class mentality, those with first class life with their own people have first class mentality !

 

[Jaykay767]

Sravna, The entire world has been shouting very loudly on this subject for quite sometime after the Ferguson riots & it is all over the internet. So unless the entire world lacks something coz of which they are shouting loudly, this is a subject for serious discussion.

 

[sravna]

I have regard for the Americans who are able to select someone as a president from a group which could not have even dreamt of this event not so far in the past. The whites do discriminate but everybody else does. In India there is a different type of discrimination. Some lofty philosophy can bring you the peace when you see so much of wrong happening around. The alternative is to get ready for the fight.

 

[Jaykay767]

I know some will view the third class comment as harsh !. Let me explain. I for one simply cannot accept someone insulting me for anything let alone race !! I assume that is the case with almost all people !. so why will I trade my current life into one where any white can suddenly walk into my life one day & heap abuses & ruin my mood ???? To me that is unacceptable !!. So it is not about insulting people who have accepted this kind of life, it is about making everyone aware of what this dreamland USA/Europe/West holds for youngsters who seek a new life !!

 

[Jaykay767]

How is racism in the west related to issues in India. yes, we have a lot of issues, so does that mean, we accept the racism from whites? Does that mean, they are free to continue to heap racist insults, abuses & shoot Sikhs in the gurudwara & kill many south Indian students etc.., ? Just because the americans elected a African American does not mean there is no racism, none of these are interlinked. we need to look at each issue separately & not link them !!

 

[sravna]

Yes Jaykay. I am talking about discrimination in general. Whether it is racism or casteism, the attitude is the same. If one isolates the problem and fight it, I am sure it is going to reappear in some other form or way. One has to address the problem as a problem of mind and pursue a broad approach. Thus the approach one is going to use to fight racism can well fight the problem of casteism. So even though the issues are lot , the roots are few.

I would view this as a problem in humans than in whites alone.

 

[renuka]

I would view this as a problem in humans than in whites alone.

Yes ...you are 100% right!

 

[renuka]

I know some will view the third class comment as harsh !. Let me explain. I for one simply cannot accept someone insulting me for anything let alone race !!

Just imagine for centuries some sections of the Hindu society felt the same way when they were insulted in religious texts..they still survived..at times I feel Dalit is the wrong word..they are NOT broken people..they are strong and resilient..the real Iron Man..who survived every possible insult.

 

[Jaykay767]

Renuka - I absolutely agree with you & empathize with them. for the record, I totally & completely reject caste based discrimination ! Cheers,

 

[sangom]

very interesting post no 48

Indian bosses In IT companies and MNCs have a peculiar mindset of superiority and treat those who work for them badly.

in fact these subordinates are not supposed to leave their offices until the indian boss leaves for home

most of lower level employees prefer to work for overseas arm of the same companies with white bosses and better work culture and working hours

sooner or later I am sure there will be visible changes on the ground in india and Indians will produce IT products of higher standards given the right oppurtunity and working conditions

state of indian defence Rand D set ups are dismal . unless they are freed from bureaucratic control and structured like atomic energy or space , there is no future for them

I am sure changes will get made in times to come .

when we have been able to make progress in atomic energy and space , why not in other fields.

IMHO all this talk about corruption and self loathing is irrelevant as far as science and technology is concerned nor religion has anything to do with the performance of our

youngsters.

these are favourite topics of our senior citizens for discussion in this forum and have no utility in india of the future

Shri Krish,

Thank you for your views on my post #48. What I have heard from youngsters, that too Indians working abroad, has been that our Indians going up the ladder in those foreign IT companies (again not many Indians will climb beyond one or two levels) have been fast polluting the work cultures in those foreign companies, because the foreign bosses have somehow been given to understand that only the Indian type of slave-driving will work with the Indian workforce. This being the position given to me by more than a few people, some of whom have since left IT (due to their qualifications) to the oil-drilling, piping engineering, mechanical/civil engineering etc., in which lines there is no such huge concentration of Indians, tells me that if anything, our chaps will vitiate the foreign IT companies also within the foreseeable future rather than our younger generation charting a glorious path for themselves or for India.

Just have a look at our history and it will be seen that the people of India that is Bharat have never been a glorious nation; it was a piece of land with massive wealth in different forms and kinds; so it attracted plunderers and our people had consistently been subjugated by the foreign invaders and we always were a kind of slave nation. Even today, we have nothing much to boast about our economy despite 60 years or more for our younger generations to prove their originality.

I therefore feel that statements like "IMHO all this talk about corruption and self loathing is irrelevant as far as science and technology is concerned nor religion has anything to do with the performance of our youngsters. these are favourite topics of our senior citizens for discussion in this forum and have no utility in india of the future", etc., will only serve to give a feel-good psychology and nothing more.

Regarding atomic energy and space, what are our "achievements"? To the best of my knowledge, we have been successful in learning whatever the white man has written in books, relied to a large extent on the engineering prowess and accuracy of countries like Japan, Singapore, etc., besides those of the computer giants of US, Canada, etc., and can claim that we did a very good and precision assembly job and produced a bomb in Pokhran or the Mars Mission. Have we anything more to take credit for?

It is good to be optimistic but along with that there must be a dispassionate assessment of the present, at least and a road-map for the glorious future that the optimistic outlook compels us to brag about; where is the road-map?

 

[tks]

I would say many of the derogatory messages about 'whites' posted here are due to insecurity and due to ignorance of never having interacted closely with people from other cultures. The insecurity gives rise to narrow mindedness and in that sense some messages here mirror the sentiments of some rednecks in USA, the coneheads in Germany, Hutu/Tutsi hating extremists in Africa, caste supremacists in India etc.

The above generalization only applies to those exhibiting traits of narrow mindedness arising from insecurity and ignorance. It is not generalization about people at large in any of the countries or groups.

Indian people and this includes people from any part of India are blessed with intelligence and native abilities notwithstanding any gene based hypothesis. In my personal experience I have worked with and admired select people from all races, castes and countries. In my experience I have come to appreciate how nature has bestowed abundant natural skills and has not been very selective based on race, caste, and gender.

What I like about America is its insistence on celebrating excellence *wherever it comes from* and consciously making effort to diversify its workforce. There are of course insecure and ignorant people in USA with views that is reflective of what is seen in some of the messages in this thread.

This reaching out for diversity in work force is not mandated by the government at all except in few companies that depend on US Government contracts. Instead the private institutions have recognized that it is in their own self interest to diversify their workforce and that interest is actually driven by deep and unvarnished greed for making more money.

There are foolish messages here portraying sense of self importance and having insecure hatred for both Indians in other countries and about 'whites'. In fact these are the very people who have kept large masses of India down with their self centered actions, love for bureaucracy that the British handed down to them and living corruption as a way of life.

For India or USA or any country to excel in the modern world of interdependence they need to learn to respect excellence wherever it may come from. Such a healthy respect for knowledge and excellence which is completely consistent Hindu Dharma will break barriers of caste, race, gender and even sexual orientation.

Indians in other countries are not always returning to India. When they do especially if they have no children and other roots in other countries they do bring a lot of wealth into India. A smart Government in India can leverage these people in a smart way.

Chinese people even if they are from Taiwan have allegiance with China and are ready to support China.

Israel enjoy support of many Jews in America who are willing to do whatever it takes to make sure Israel is able to thrive and defend itself.

There are old fools with old ideas in India that will wither away in time.

I think the new PM of India is very smart and does not personalize things. He seem to place emphasis on excellence and is taking concrete actions against corruption. He seem to understand and embrace Hindu Dharma. He has a strategic outlook and his win is nothing short of a miracle.

I see bright future for India and Indians all around the world.

Back in the 1940s I understand that Japanese goods stood for poor quality. Edward Deming, the father of the quality revolution was rejected by American companies like Automobiles but was embraced by the Japanese. In two decades Japan is now known for Quality in whatever they produce. Koreans have put their emphasis on quality as well and are rising stars. The quality of USA cars has gone down and GM and others should face extinction in a few years (unless they change their ways). The free market is an equalizer in that respect.

PM Modi is right in seeking Asian alliance to further India's interests. If India can learn to ignore the fools and their foolish & self centered ideas of today and if it can embrace Quality and Excellence it will become the economic super power in a decade or so. The diversity in India and its emphasis in Dharma is its natural strength.

Quality and Excellence are related to character of its workforce. As a person who outsourced work to India in late 1980s (as an experiment) I have always been disappointed with the quality of output I received. I am not surprised that in IT industry and call center industry many of the India's centers are relegated to mundane work. The delivery leaders do work that others in USA and West do not want to do.

In my limited personal dealings with few big wigs in DRDO they just displayed unwarranted arrogance. There are very smart people in DRDO but they are mired in bureaucracy. The various Secretaries should be thrown out for lack of performance in my view.

If any of you do not want to hear views of someone in USA saying what India should do, don't read my posts.

For India to succeed its work force has to embrace an obsession for excellence which can only come with the right character of its people. They need to move away from petty and self centered actions to lofty goals by understanding and embracing Hindu Dharma in all that they do.

I hope with PM Modi in leadership role this happens.

 

[prasad1]

Tksji,
Powerful post#70, to the point and driven home, provided the recipients are present.

 

[Jaykay767]

None of the above has anything to do with Racism !

Yes, we all know the obvious that America & west,Japan & Korea have progressed vastly where merit & excellence are givenimportance, while India has not. So whathas this got to do with racism ?

The front page of CNN screams – racism widespread in USA,so there is no point in denying when the whites themselves have accepted thatRacism is widespread.

1000s & 1000s of such stories like RK Narayan arelittered on the internet !

Surprising to see some defending the whites so stronglythat they are calling everyone else as fools !

On the contrary, only fools will be more loyal than theKings themselves !!

 

[prasad1]

No one denies there is racism in every part of the world. There is dirt everywhere, but it is on you if you fall into it or is thrown on you.
In general PIO are not stupid to fall into it or get thrown on them.

Pio's do not encounter racism in the way some here on this site think. I feel more bigotry in chennai than in NY.
But like TKSji said:

I would say many of the derogatory messages about 'whites' posted here are due to insecurity and due to ignorance of never having interacted closely with people from other cultures. The insecurity gives rise to narrow mindedness and in that sense some messages here mirror the sentiments of some rednecks in USA, the coneheads in Germany, Hutu/Tutsi hating extremists in Africa, caste supremacists in India etc.

There are foolish messages here portraying sense of self importance and having insecure hatred for both Indians in other countries and about 'whites'. In fact these are the very people who have kept large masses of India down with their self centered actions, love for bureaucracy that the British handed down to them and living corruption as a way of life.

 

[Jaykay767]

It is totally foolish not to look at the racism Ghost in the room & address it!. Some PIOs have carefully constructed images back in India over decades which are now falling apart. Their lives are built on - India is not a good place to stay, etc. Chennai is not a good place to stay, etc.etc. which is why they left starry eyed to go to the west decades back!! This is repeated like a parrot every time someone raises what about this problem in the west?., or that problem in the west ?

For our PIOs, West/USA are a dreamland, gagaland, where everything is hunky dory & all problems are in India, which is now falling apart openly in front of the entire world ! Obviously, this will lead to intense denials & a delusionary phase!! LOL !

Given that the level of racism has multiplied specially after Obama election, it is only a matter of time for things to come down to earth. All republicans are tooth & nail opposed to Obama, most whites are racist given that all message boards on CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, Huff post etc.. are filled with terrible racist messages against African Americans, Indians, Asians,Hispanics, etc.. that one cannot print here !!

I mean - If almost all comments on the internet boards are racist, then by extension, majority whites are racist. I mean minorities cannot be bashing themselves on the message boards right?

This delusional love affair with the whites will quickly disappear if any of their loved ones are targeted with racist abuses!! Then they will sing a different tune in life & they will be roaming around in India praising how great our homeland is !! LOL !!!

 

[renuka]

Dear JK,

Why this acute shift in mindset?

From what I have got to know even out here some Indians from India who work here try to sort of establish some Indian work values here and almost want others to conform to their values instead of learning to blend it.

So they view this as racism when they are unable to establish their "reign".