Reservation for Brahmins

[prasanth1]

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I am not very familiar with US but there seems to be regular sahasranamam chanting in New York or somewhere there in which even youngsters born and brought up there are active.

You are speaking in the short term. Children of immigrants, second generations. I am speaking long term. Many european sub-cultures also once migrated to the Americas. In the early days, they had distinct identities. In modern America, these subcultures have all merged into a broader group and are not distinguished any longer. As every generation lives on, fewer and fewer of their original traits are passed on through their children. That is simply how it is. The modern Jewish community of America is another example. Their language and customs are mostly a novelty for their current generation, nothing more.

This is inevitable to the situation. The only way to prevent it is to be reclusive in the new country. But reclusive immigrants cause distrust and ill-feelings among the natives of the foreign country. This is happening in America right now against Muslims and other groups. There is no way to win in this situation.

While some people may be satisfied living among foreign cultures, this "solution" is rather counterproductive in the long term, in my view.

Though I respect their opinions, I feel it is rather naive. Perhaps I will be last man clinging to the home soil...

 

[sangom]

You are speaking in the short term. Children of immigrants, second generations. I am speaking long term. Many european sub-cultures also once migrated to the Americas. In the early days, they had distinct identities. In modern America, these subcultures have all merged into a broader group and are not distinguished any longer. As every generation lives on, fewer and fewer of their original traits are passed on through their children. That is simply how it is. The modern Jewish community of America is another example. Their language and customs are mostly a novelty for their current generation, nothing more.

This is inevitable to the situation. The only way to prevent it is to be reclusive in the new country. But reclusive immigrants cause distrust and ill-feelings among the natives of the foreign country. This is happening in America right now against Muslims and other groups. There is no way to win in this situation.

While some people may be satisfied living among foreign cultures, this "solution" is rather counterproductive in the long term, in my view.

Though I respect their opinions, I feel it is rather naive. Perhaps I will be last man clinging to the home soil...

Shri Prasanth,

Thank you for enlightening me. I understand the position now clearly.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Reservation for Brahmins.

I have noticed lot of Telugu speaking people who are tea plantation workers
in ASSAM .Their forefathers went to assam and settled there.The present generation only keep telugu names but do not speak telugu nor aware of telugu customs.I spoke to some of the labourers myself and heard from them.
Telugu people who were living in border districts of VIDHARBA now follow only MAHARASTRIAN CULTURE and are considered as Maharastrians for all purposes.All such families whose names ended with the word'WARU' are now known as 'WAR'. From names like TALLEWAR, KANNAMWAR, MUKKEWAR you can notice that they are now maharastrians after migration.TAMIL
Brahmins from TIRUNELVELI DISTRICT migrated to villages in AMALAPURAM
areas in WEST GODAVARI DISTRICT long time back are now Andhra Brahmins.
One Mr.HEERA MANSINGH opted for posting in RAJAHMUNDRY(ANDHRA) after serving in ASSAM for two years.When he came to join duty I asked him as to he is opting ANDHRA iwhy nstead of NORTH INDIA, He explained to me that his forefathers were in AURANGAZEP ARMY and came to ANDHRA as Soldiers.
All of them were given LANDS for tilling and they settled down in ANDHRA.
NOW they are in TAMILNADU,KARNATAKA and ANDHRA.They live as a separate group and practice their customs within themselves.They do not have any contact with their original state but study the language of the state in which they have settled.
ANY group migrating to far off places will be able to keep their separate identity so long as they maintain LINKS with the rest of the group residing in Native Land.With modern communication and transport facilities I think
We need not worry about loss of identity of migrated groups.

 

[RKB]

Communication comes only by attitude and no technology can ensure it. During last vacation my house was filled with good number of children from many part of India. I don't have kids but I ensure that my abode provide happy place of congregation for all my brother's and sister's grand generations. But with IPL matches, the kids grouped themselves and were fighting with each other for supporting their favorite team. After the Delhi Dare Devils exit, a set of kids also exited and they have still not established talking terms. This is a very simple thing of Conflict of Interest that migration generates. There are several other things for potential major conflict. How are people migrating for greener pasture is going to have any regard for their erstwhile home that has been discarded by them as non green. Interestingly none of those who have migrated also do any facilitation for other's of their clan to migrate. At the maximum they ensure their parents availability with them if they can volunteer as an alternative to costly maids. That is the attitude after migration.

I have noticed lot of Telugu speaking people who are tea plantation workers
in ASSAM .Their forefathers went to assam and settled there.The present generation only keep telugu names but do not speak telugu nor aware of telugu customs.I spoke to some of the labourers myself and heard from them.
Telugu people who were living in border districts of VIDHARBA now follow only MAHARASTRIAN CULTURE and are considered as Maharastrians for all purposes.All such families whose names ended with the word'WARU' are now known as 'WAR'. From names like TALLEWAR, KANNAMWAR, MUKKEWAR you can notice that they are now maharastrians after migration.TAMIL
Brahmins from TIRUNELVELI DISTRICT migrated to villages in AMALAPURAM
areas in WEST GODAVARI DISTRICT long time back are now Andhra Brahmins.
One Mr.HEERA MANSINGH opted for posting in RAJAHMUNDRY(ANDHRA) after serving in ASSAM for two years.When he came to join duty I asked him as to he is opting ANDHRA iwhy nstead of NORTH INDIA, He explained to me that his forefathers were in AURANGAZEP ARMY and came to ANDHRA as Soldiers.
All of them were given LANDS for tilling and they settled down in ANDHRA.
NOW they are in TAMILNADU,KARNATAKA and ANDHRA.They live as a separate group and practice their customs within themselves.They do not have any contact with their original state but study the language of the state in which they have settled.
ANY group migrating to far off places will be able to keep their separate identity so long as they maintain LINKS with the rest of the group residing in Native Land.With modern communication and transport facilities I think
We need not worry about loss of identity of migrated groups.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Communication comes only by attitude and no technology can ensure it. During last vacation my house was filled with good number of children from many part of India. I don't have kids but I ensure that my abode provide happy place of congregation for all my brother's and sister's grand generations. But with IPL matches, the kids grouped themselves and were fighting with each other for supporting their favorite team. After the Delhi Dare Devils exit, a set of kids also exited and they have still not established talking terms. This is a very simple thing of Conflict of Interest that migration generates. There are several other things for potential major conflict. How are people migrating for greener pasture is going to have any regard for their erstwhile home that has been discarded by them as non green. Interestingly none of those who have migrated also do any facilitation for other's of their clan to migrate. At the maximum they ensure their parents availability with them if they can volunteer as an alternative to costly maids. That is the attitude after migration.

Though we have digressed far away from the main subject the posts are interesting. Now we talk about migration. Brahmins are always migrants. When we trace back our ancestral roots we will find very interesting migration of our families. My father's side I could trace three or four generation back our family was from a small village called Pilluvalasai in the present Pudukkottai district (old Tanjore District). My grand father took to English education and graduated from Madras University and joined the Revenue service and spent his professional life in Telugu region mostly in Rayalaseema, but up to Ganjam,( now in Orissa) and finally settled down in Anantapur after retirement as Deputy Collector. My father who had his education in erstwhile Ceded districts migrated to my mother's place Coimbatore after marriage. My father could communicate easily in Tamil, Telugu, Kannada, Urdu and English. My mother's family though native of Coimbatore/Singanallur, claim that they were originally from Mysore State migrated along with the Muslim rulers when they invaded Kongu region. It goes on and on, now I have settled in Bangalore, Karnataka, to which place I came 45 years ago from Coimbatore where I was born and educated.

At this rate perhaps my grand children may follow other Brahmins of the day and migrate to Countries outside India.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore
​

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Mr.RKB,
The "incident" of the type mentioned by You happens daily among my grandchildren who are brothers and living in the same house.Such incidents ares in no way connected to migration to other places.
I request you to read the mail message recorded in another website"iyer123"
by Ms. Vasanthi Dharana on 06/09/2010 titled"FROM RAGS TO RICHES".
I am yet to master the procedure of saving,cutting and pasting. I am a beginner to 'Computers'.There are many members of this forum who are also members of that forum.After reading the contents you will be satisfied that many persons who have migrated to U.S.A have not forgotten their original COUNTRY.

 

[RKB]

Even President Obama doesn't have a clear answer for his original country and religion. The many persons that you quote should at least learn to be loyal to USA. Kids develop such loyalty faster when the first generation migrants suffer.

I do not have any problem with migrants feeling for their home. There are also Brahmins who marry NBs and later say that they long for upbringing their kids as Brahmins. Their feelings are real. But in reality they are the problems and not the solutions.

Migrants most of the time feel that they can bring Capital for a venture in their home land. This business interest work for maintaining the link. But community development should not be seen as a business. These people are also not particular about providing opportunity to members of community in their venture. This is not by their broad mind. Most of the time it is narrow mind and invariably they feel employing Brahmin leads them to problem. So they keep control close to their family members and employ only those who can be compatible to them. But this is a very meager percentage. Brahmins are also not that good in their attitude for Business.

Dear Mr.RKB,
The "incident" of the type mentioned by You happens daily among my grandchildren who are brothers and living in the same house.Such incidents ares in no way connected to migration to other places.
I request you to read the mail message recorded in another website"iyer123"
by Ms. Vasanthi Dharana on 06/09/2010 titled"FROM RAGS TO RICHES".
I am yet to master the procedure of saving,cutting and pasting. I am a beginner to 'Computers'.There are many members of this forum who are also members of that forum.After reading the contents you will be satisfied that many persons who have migrated to U.S.A have not forgotten their original COUNTRY.

 

[RKB]

Tamil Brahmins are a community of South India and so finding the in any State in Tamilnadu cannot be termed as migration. It is just a movement. Every marriage means some movement. The Tamils in Delhi or Bombay are those in Government/ Public/Private Services with posting there. They have not gone there feeling that Delhi or Bombay is Greener then Tamilnadu. The worrisome migration is that of people getting themselves deported to escape the problem here. To add insult to injury they show scant regard for those weathering problem here. Their attitude is that they are the most meritorious and the others here are not.

Though we have digressed far away from the main subject the posts are interesting. Now we talk about migration. Brahmins are always migrants. When we trace back our ancestral roots we will find very interesting migration of our families. My father's side I could trace three or four generation back our family was from a small village called Pilluvalasai in the present Pudukkottai district (old Tanjore District). My grand father took to English education and graduated from Madras University and joined the Revenue service and spent his professional life in Telugu region mostly in Rayalaseema, but up to Ganjam,( now in Orissa) and finally settled down in Anantapur after retirement as Deputy Collector. My father who had his education in erstwhile Ceded districts migrated to my mother's place Coimbatore after marriage. My father could communicate easily in Tamil, Telugu, Kannada, Urdu and English. My mother's family though native of Coimbatore/Singanallur, claim that they were originally from Mysore State migrated along with the Muslim rulers when they invaded Kongu region. It goes on and on, now I have settled in Bangalore, Karnataka, to which place I came 45 years ago from Coimbatore where I was born and educated.

At this rate perhaps my grand children may follow other Brahmins of the day and migrate to Countries outside India.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore
​

 

[suresoo]

These questions were posted for your views becasue you posted this to Sangom sir: http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/3940-reservation-brahmins-51.html#post56363
"In the society you are trying to build, a person who had never crossed 50% marks would end up being a Heart surgeon. When he opens up a patient for heart surgery, he may not know 50% of the parts in there (Just a Joke, I hope you see that with humor). Wait, i'm not saying dalits are not good surgeons. I'm only saying the system you support leads a "Race to the Bottom".
What you wrote can came across as a bit of caste-based slander against those who study cardiothoracic / cardiovascular surgery at masters level. This is so, because i hear that there are indian doctors and surgeons who do mbbs as well as masters in india on reservations and work in countries such as US, UK and in gulf and southeast asian countries.

caste-based slander (??) It is in your mind and not in my words!

.....

I tried to convey a message by wrapping it with humor, like wrapping a candy/pill with colurful wrapper. You seem to have thrown away the candy/pill and over-analysed the wrapper.
Its a candy for those who appreciated the humor and a pill for those looking for the message.

Your statements remind me of folks who go back to smoking 10 packs cigarattes a day less than a month after heart surgeries. Ofcourse, they do not last long, even if the are under the care of the most competant medical care givers. They do not take care of their health, instead they want to depend on the competance of their surgeons for health.

While i'm looking at that unfinished somosa, your eyes are on " smoking 10 packs cigarattes a day ". When we try to compare, there is no comparison.

Am sorry to say sir, but some remarks by various ppl on this thread can come across like being caste-vindictive. However, am not inclined to get into a discussion with them. Time has a way of managing things i suppose. These days dalits get MBBS admissions on merit. So, some posters who seem to have an underlying caste superiority ideology can hopefully wake up. The playing field is truly getting level with no "race to the bottom".

Am also sorry to say that the so called Anti-Caste warriors (ACWs] looking at their ideas getting discounted are making louder noise to keep themselves relevant in the new, changing & vibrant India.
Some of these ACWs who had made a career in the last decades are already getting marginalized and i can only see this trend accelerate.
They are the Al sharpton/Jesse Jackson of Indian society!

 

[happyhindu]

caste-based slander (??) It is in your mind and not in my words!

I tried to convey a message by wrapping it with humor, like wrapping a candy/pill with colurful wrapper. You seem to have thrown away the candy/pill and over-analysed the wrapper.
Its a candy for those who appreciated the humor and a pill for those looking for the message.

Am sorry i saw neither humor, candy / pill, message nor wrapper. Your words "race to the bottom" was plain and clear.

While i'm looking at that unfinished somosa, your eyes are on " smoking 10 packs cigarattes a day ". When we try to compare, there is no comparison.

Am also sorry to say that the so called Anti-Caste warriors (ACWs] looking at their ideas getting discounted are making louder noise to keep themselves relevant in the new, changing & vibrant India.
Some of these ACWs who had made a career in the last decades are already getting marginalized and i can only see this trend accelerate.
They are the Al sharpton/Jesse Jackson of Indian society!

And i suppose it is best for religious institutions that promote caste in a "new, changing & vibrant India" to be
a) dissolved; or
b) taken over by the government; or
c) adapt / change itself to suit the changing times.

What you see as "anti-caste' may not be "anti-caste" at all ,esp in the context of a "new, changing & vibrant India" that you speak of. Perhaps this too is in your mind and not in my words.

 

[Ganamukundhapriya]

Opinions that Orthodoxy should go, Migration with wisdom, Race to bottom are all getting interesting day by day. Though the posts tend to digress much from the main question widely, I think the opportunity should be given to talk (express!) things out. Though the main question is about Reservation... the main objective is to find a common ground amongst us for ensuring cohesion.

The positions like 'If Equality is ensured', 'If poverty is not there', If politicians are corrected', 'If our ancestors only checked with internet' etc will for ever remain point of argument. My idea is to make our community's effort visible on everything including 'Equality Mission', 'Poverty Eradication' etc. for that we have to be politically correct. This requires a bare minimum cohesiveness from us to make a demand. The polling says that we are badly divided. So what else can be our demand?

Most of us try to piggyback our real demand on some other inconsequential thing. The demand like this man has to be routed out in next election from State, that lady should be sent out both from party and country are all not practically sensible for us. As another extreme there are people advocating ideology like 'All Brahmins should quit all their jobs', 'Brahmins should refrain from going to temples', 'Brahmins should return their ration cards', Brahmins should enumerate themselves as NB in census', Brahmins should boycott education' etc. These emotional utterances seldom is explained with proper reasoning and so they are mere expression of anger and nothing more than that. Politically we can justify doing one or all of it only when we have expressed something as our demand. Reservation seems to have the required quality for qualifying as our demand. Why not the respondents review their view simply seeing 'Reservation' as a demand?

 

[suresoo]

Am sorry i saw neither humor, candy / pill, message nor wrapper. Your words "race to the bottom" was plain and clear.

I wonder, you read What you wanted to read rather than what was written.

You want to find in me, what I'm not.
I'm what i want to be. I'm not what you want to see in me!

And i suppose it is best for religious institutions that promote caste in a "new, changing & vibrant India" to be
a) dissolved; or
b) taken over by the government; or
c) adapt / change itself to suit the changing times.
What you see as "anti-caste' may not be "anti-caste" at all ,esp in the context of a "new, changing & vibrant India" that you speak of. Perhaps this too is in your mind and not in my words.

People who have run out of ideas are whose ideas are discounted by society seek Govt take over to propagate their ideas.
This is a dangerous idea, such attempts when successful have resulted in dictatorship, tyranny and suffering for common man.
I'm willing to accept the society that we the people build!

thanks,

 

[RKB]

Popular mindset here is that the tillers of the soil should be made to possess the land he till. Similarly Brahmins should get title deed for the lands of all the temple in which he performs puja. I think Brahmins should implead themselves in SC in the Ayodhya verdict with this petition.

Opinions that Orthodoxy should go, Migration with wisdom, Race to bottom are all getting interesting day by day. Though the posts tend to digress much from the main question widely, I think the opportunity should be given to talk (express!) things out. Though the main question is about Reservation... the main objective is to find a common ground amongst us for ensuring cohesion.

The positions like 'If Equality is ensured', 'If poverty is not there', If politicians are corrected', 'If our ancestors only checked with internet' etc will for ever remain point of argument. My idea is to make our community's effort visible on everything including 'Equality Mission', 'Poverty Eradication' etc. for that we have to be politically correct. This requires a bare minimum cohesiveness from us to make a demand. The polling says that we are badly divided. So what else can be our demand?

Most of us try to piggyback our real demand on some other inconsequential thing. The demand like this man has to be routed out in next election from State, that lady should be sent out both from party and country are all not practically sensible for us. As another extreme there are people advocating ideology like 'All Brahmins should quit all their jobs', 'Brahmins should refrain from going to temples', 'Brahmins should return their ration cards', Brahmins should enumerate themselves as NB in census', Brahmins should boycott education' etc. These emotional utterances seldom is explained with proper reasoning and so they are mere expression of anger and nothing more than that. Politically we can justify doing one or all of it only when we have expressed something as our demand. Reservation seems to have the required quality for qualifying as our demand. Why not the respondents review their view simply seeing 'Reservation' as a demand?

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Mr.RKB,
The suggestion made by you with all good intentions is not feasible. There are other employees too from other castes.
The best way is to organise and bring unity among the community.
I understand that any member of PARSI community can approach TATA and get
funds on soft terms for study/career advancement etc.Many PARSEES have become commercial PILOTS in AIRLINES after availing such facility.
Even KERALA IYERS HAVE SUCH SCHEMES.
Sir, PLEASE take the lead and under this TB FORUM start a TRUST for the benefit of this community.I am fully confident that majority of TBS (including
TBS who have migrated to different parts of INDIA or other countries) will
contribute liberally.THIS WILL HELP OUR COMMUNITY PEOPLE TO COME UP IN LIFE.

 

[RKB]

Feasibility comes with conviction. You seems to think that only the alternatives in which you can just sit and enjoy as feasible. You will not start a trust but will ask me to do so and expect me to go around with begging bowls for you. I request you to realize the comedy in your responses that you seems to think as serious suggestions. There are already thousands of trusts for Brahmins and none are as effective as what you expect from them. The reason is that our community people are not showing any solidarity for a purpose.

The person who is responsible for finding our the truth behind the just happened 'Aladi Aruna's death' completely evades responsibility in this matter but is putting a bold suggestion before press to make a retired Judge of Allahabad court to find to him mystery about Raja Raja's death that happened 1000 years ago. Does he go with begging bowl for doing things for his community and family?

Brahmins should boldly make themselves heard by their political acumen and astuteness. Shall we go before the press and say that it is the Brahmins who did the last right for Raja
Raja Chola and say that we performed it at the site of Anna Arivaalayam? I have to ask you such questions and leave it at that for categorical answer is not possible. But MUKA will just do such things without asking other's for any opinion. When are we going to mean action?

Mr.RKB,
The suggestion made by you with all good intentions is not feasible. There are other employees too from other castes.
The best way is to organise and bring unity among the community.
I understand that any member of PARSI community can approach TATA and get
funds on soft terms for study/career advancement etc.Many PARSEES have become commercial PILOTS in AIRLINES after availing such facility.
Even KERALA IYERS HAVE SUCH SCHEMES.
Sir, PLEASE take the lead and under this TB FORUM start a TRUST for the benefit of this community.I am fully confident that majority of TBS (including
TBS who have migrated to different parts of INDIA or other countries) will
contribute liberally.THIS WILL HELP OUR COMMUNITY PEOPLE TO COME UP IN LIFE.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Mr.RKB,
I think Our thinking is on different lines.So,It is better We agree to disagree.
You are free to help the Tamil Brahmin community settled only in Tamilnadu and other parts of INDIA(excluding migrants out of INDIA) in the BEST MANNER
YOUDEEM FIT.I come under the category of'migrants out of INDIA
Regards

 

[Harini]

If everyone agree to disagree, then what is the use of these forums. Don't portray me as prejudiced against migrants. I was just saying the real facts about them and that too to get them in to understanding for their own interest. If we had a International federation of Brahmin Associations, then we have a reason to believe that migrated Brahmins are feeling themselves as the offshoot of the main trunk. But Brahmins never seems to have consolidated themselves in any host country. Of course they build temples, conduct concerts etc. But that doesn't give any ground to rely on them.

I just want the migrants to mean a real help for those in the mainland. Who am I to help them?

Mr.RKB,
I think Our thinking is on different lines.So,It is better We agree to disagree.
You are free to help the Tamil Brahmin community settled only in Tamilnadu and other parts of INDIA(excluding migrants out of INDIA) in the BEST MANNER
YOUDEEM FIT.I come under the category of'migrants out of INDIA
Regards

 

[hoover]

migrant Brahmin have an important role to play in upliftment of brahmin. I doubt if they will do that.
when a brahmin is in india, struggaling and paving his way in reservations, he complains about discrimintion as a brahmin. Once he passes border settles down in us, uk (due to his Brahmin genes) he/she starts speking of importance of hardwork, Global citizenship, how castiesm is wrong etc. etc. I pray for god let white supremacist be powerful in those countries and let expell those to this republic only then they will understand the sorrow of being a jew of india. Here alll of them speak feel good and anti caste and rligion. Is anyone of them going to settle down in Uganda or ethiopia?
All it is like a person standing on bank of water suggesting a drowning man 'a drowning man must always keep his head cool'
there are so many brahmin settled in US but there is no effective organisation of them. though only one established by north indian brahmin namely BSNA is trying to set foot. all brahmin should help and participate in their effort.
Remember if brahmin are expelled somehow from us and other countries their only identity in this country is Brahmin and not global citizen etc. etc. we do not have any homeland like jews and in india we are second class citizens.

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Hoover Sir,

Greetings. I am a migrant from India. I don't normally talk about caste of others. Tonight it is different. Kindly listen, please.

migrant Brahmin have an important role to play in upliftment of brahmin. I doubt if they will do that.

To help others is important. Caste of the reciepient is not really important. It really takes a broad mind to help someone in need. Seldom people help others to become better than them, teachers are exceptions in this scenario. I was helped by 3 persons to migrate; to get a visa to go to one of the countries like UK, USA, Canada, Australia and the like is a dream for most persons. I was a pauper when I got my visa. (not that I had any money before..I was always a pauper). One Thenkalai Iyengar bought my flight ticket; one (kudiyanavan) Goundar and one Sengundha Mudaliyar helped me with expenses. I got my visa based on my trade. I learned my trade from one Nayar and one Ezhavar. One guy who stayed with all the time was an untouchable from Ottapaalam. I grew up in a Vada Kalai Iyengar family.

Now, kindly tell me, honestly which caste should I support for upliftment, please? It has to be fair and equitable. Thank you.

I pray for god let white supremacist be powerful in those countries and let expell those to this republic only then they will understand the sorrow of being a jew of india. Here alll of them speak feel good and anti caste and rligion. Is anyone of them going to settle down in Uganda or ethiopia?

There are Jews in India. In Cochin there is a street by the name 'Jew street'. .....Video – Jew Street Cochin, The Synagogue and more… | Kochi Cochin News
I don't think Jews have any 'sorrow' in India. Jewish presence in Kerala goes as far back as 2,000 years. Anyway, thanks for your prayers. I don't exactly fear an expulsion though. Idi Ameen expelled Indian diaspora from Uganda ( as you can see, it is a bit hard to settle in Uganda. Bit hard to get a visa. Ethiopia? I would prefer a country bit more peaceful than Ethiopia, I suppose. Anyway, that's my personal opinion though. Honestly I don't see the connection between speaking 'feel good', 'anti castiesm and anti religion and living in Uganda or Ethiopia though.

Remember if brahmin are expelled somehow from us and other countries their only identity in this country is Brahmin and not global citizen etc. etc.

I don't think anyone would expel just brahmins. All the Indians may get expelled. But it may not be based on religion, not based on caste for sure! Personally I would worry about such a scenario if it ever happens; until then, I wouldn't worry about that.

Cheers!

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

m/s.Harini (Post No: 592)
Mr.hoover(Post No:593)
I am afraid you have just read the contents of what I wrote in Post no:591 and recorded your views. I will be happy if you kindly go through posts no:583 & 588
from Mr.RKB.Since what Mr.RKB wrote in post 588 is not a solution for betterment of Tamil Brahmin community, I gave my suggestion in post no 589.
NOW SEE HIS COMMENTS IN POST NO 590 TO WHICH i POSTED MY COMMENTS IN POST NO: 591.i WROTE THE LAST SENTENCE TO EMPHASISE MY INABILITY TO HANDLE ANY RESPONSIBILITY BEING A miGRANT iNDIAN.
I DO NOT KNOW WHY SO MUCH PREJUIDICE IS THERE IN THIS FORUM AGAINST MIGRANTS IN FACT EVERYONE WHO HAVE LEFT INDIA ALWAYS WISH WELL FOR THEIR COUNTRY OF ORIGIN AND ARE PREPARED TO ASSIST
IN THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OF INDIA.
PLEASE READ SECOND PARA OF MY POST NO 581 regading the article
"From rags to Riches" and give a gist of the article for the benefit of all members of this forum.

 

[hoover]

shri krishnamurty sir,
It is not a prejudice but it is a criticism, and it has its underpinning in a truth. Here I think we are not criticising the people who are struggling to settle in new countries but it is towards the people who have already comfertabley settled and have much time, resources and freedom of us constitution. through which hardships, discrimination of entire brahmin community can be reduced. atleast it can be brought before the international community. I just want to say here that a person migrates to another land not just because he is bored of his surroundings. Why French not migrate to us and Germans to UK? they are getting what they needed in their own country. Even when it is a clear fact that Brahmin particularaly are kept away from the opportunities due to hatred. the tendency of Brahmin which i mentioned irritates me. Once crossed borders, they forget all the discrimination aginst their brothers here. instead of helping by some way they want to project american culture on the brahmin society here which further weakens us . anyway does anyone of you gone through website of BSNA (Brahmin Samaj of North America)?
for shri Raghy sir,
You are a good hearted man and so is grateful for all those who helped you. I never said it anywhere that we must be inhuman aginst all others. We should be good human beings. There are many incidents when postal officials distroyed important call letters and other documents of Brahmin. it is not here to discuss the humanity and human benevolance. we not want special treatment but equality and equal opportunity here. I am not retreating from any of my sentences.
you misunderstood the frase 'Jews of india' it is not used for Jewish comunity but satirically for brahmin community, which is virtuallay second grade citizens of India. for whom govt. doesent spend a single rupee and foreced to stand at last in every cue whether it is for employment or education.
In pre war Germany Jews were also ignorat about hatred aginst them they had also told a lot of stories of german individuals heliping them and in good terms with them. unfortunately those individual helps doesnt sum up and counter the imbalance and discrimination. I think your experiences are a lot old. Things are changed much now. When there is discrimination and hatred It is natural tendancy (in my views right) to expect help from our own kind of creatures.

 

[kunjuppu]

Hoover,

It is rather strange that I have a lot of relatives from india and none of them have ever given me these scenarios that you write.

Most of them, I agree, are comfortably off middle class and higher, and maybe in a situation that they are not impacted by the meanness of a postman or the job application from a tamil nadu government civil servant.

In another forum, we used to have a member, who was just as bitter as you are. He was a tambram who was bypassed twice in promotion, according to him, and the job given to SC (one of whom was a Christian). It had left such deep marks in his psyche that even after prolonged retirement, his wounds were raw.

To me whatever you have experienced, it appears to be on the same lines. I sympathize with you and I strongly believe that no one should undergo this level of deprivation, particularly in their own homeland.

Hoover, I do not know your circumstances, and which part of india you live. Because in your mails you also include Brahmins from other parts of india. I do know that there is no rabid anti Brahmin feeling in kerala or Gujarat. Delhi and the rest of north. In delhi it is free for all for everyone from all parts of india.

So hoover, can you let us know what are the instances where you have been bypassed, insulted and made a second class citizen.

I should also caution, that I know of tambrams who have a strong sense of entitlement. Their upbringing has a lot to do with this. when right from the early age, you are coached in your home about your superiority, ‘brilliance’, exclusivity, the concept of lower castes…. You start to believe these lies and behold them to be the Truth. Nothing can be further from it.

The mind needs to take a big wash and all the dirty laundry needs to be bleached and washed clean. Then the drying process comes through the feet firmly planted on the reality, that india is a country of minorities and we are no better or no worse than the others. Also not all of us can be engineers or doctors. Also there is something called drive, hard work and more than that ‘business savvy and street smartness’. I suspect those of us who have not achieved their dreams, suffer from an absolute lack of the last qualities.

One cannot just pass an exam and expect a job to land on his lap. One needs to have panache, social skills, good grooming, poise, self confidence, good communication skills and so many such things. When one sees someone of a ‘lower’ caste getting ahead with winning characterestics that we do not possess, it is only human to imagine that our entitlement has been robbed.

Nowadays also, in light of intense competition, very few jobs can be ‘doled out’ or ‘handed out’ as the boss depends on his juniors heavily for his own advancement. This is in private sector ofcourse, and in this private booming sector, I would have imagined, that a tambram could hold his own. Just look at the numbers who are amassed in our IT and other knowledge based companies.

So where does all your complaints come from. I am, I should confess, that I am more than sceptical of your lament. I simply do not believe it.

 

[sangom]

Hoover,

It is rather strange that I have a lot of relatives from india and none of them have ever given me these scenarios that you write.

Most of them, I agree, are comfortably off middle class and higher, and maybe in a situation that they are not impacted by the meanness of a postman or the job application from a tamil nadu government civil servant.

In another forum, we used to have a member, who was just as bitter as you are. He was a tambram who was bypassed twice in promotion, according to him, and the job given to SC (one of whom was a Christian). It had left such deep marks in his psyche that even after prolonged retirement, his wounds were raw.

To me whatever you have experienced, it appears to be on the same lines. I sympathize with you and I strongly believe that no one should undergo this level of deprivation, particularly in their own homeland.

Hoover, I do not know your circumstances, and which part of india you live. Because in your mails you also include Brahmins from other parts of india. I do know that there is no rabid anti Brahmin feeling in kerala or Gujarat. Delhi and the rest of north. In delhi it is free for all for everyone from all parts of india.

So hoover, can you let us know what are the instances where you have been bypassed, insulted and made a second class citizen.

I should also caution, that I know of tambrams who have a strong sense of entitlement. Their upbringing has a lot to do with this. when right from the early age, you are coached in your home about your superiority, ‘brilliance’, exclusivity, the concept of lower castes…. You start to believe these lies and behold them to be the Truth. Nothing can be further from it.

The mind needs to take a big wash and all the dirty laundry needs to be bleached and washed clean. Then the drying process comes through the feet firmly planted on the reality, that india is a country of minorities and we are no better or no worse than the others. Also not all of us can be engineers or doctors. Also there is something called drive, hard work and more than that ‘business savvy and street smartness’. I suspect those of us who have not achieved their dreams, suffer from an absolute lack of the last qualities.

One cannot just pass an exam and expect a job to land on his lap. One needs to have panache, social skills, good grooming, poise, self confidence, good communication skills and so many such things. When one sees someone of a ‘lower’ caste getting ahead with winning characterestics that we do not possess, it is only human to imagine that our entitlement has been robbed.

Nowadays also, in light of intense competition, very few jobs can be ‘doled out’ or ‘handed out’ as the boss depends on his juniors heavily for his own advancement. This is in private sector ofcourse, and in this private booming sector, I would have imagined, that a tambram could hold his own. Just look at the numbers who are amassed in our IT and other knowledge based companies.

So where does all your complaints come from. I am, I should confess, that I am more than sceptical of your lament. I simply do not believe it.

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

It was a pleasure to read your post. It was, in a way, an eye-opener for me too, may be for my next 'janma'. If I were to be in the job market today, most probably I would have been an utter failure, a சோப்ளாங்கி !

That happens exactly because of the various factors truthfully and lucidly explained by you. I may add that in typical tambram households there was/is (?) a sort of "protected" upbringing; I did not get to move much with NB friends except at school/college. Rest of the time we had TamBram friends only, mostly thinking on similar lines. Our world view was "Pass B.A. and the job will come". But by the time we came to the graduate class, things had started changing and, fortunately, we became aware of it.

I recall one real life incident told to me by a very venerable and then highly connected, elder. One Tambram boy, very brilliant and ambitious appeared for the TCS (Travancore Civil Service, modelled on ICS lines) selection. The panel had C.P. Ramaswamy Iyer and two other equally eminent personalities. When the boy was asked "what is your father?", despite all his brilliance, he blurted out "I don't have father." That cost him the TCS selection but he was offered a good job in the then Maharaja's govt. The failed candidate who was much elder to me, used to say all his life that he was rejected because there was a NB member who favoured another candidate!! The truth was told to me by the very elderly person after the demise of the said failed candidate when once I cited this as an example of partiality in interviews even in the olden days.

 

[Harini]

Noted sir. However a overseas association of Brahmins is still a good idea for the migrants to make themselves relevant. The relevance will get them the needed respect and affection.

m/s.Harini (Post No: 592)
Mr.hoover(Post No:593)
I am afraid you have just read the contents of what I wrote in Post no:591 and recorded your views. I will be happy if you kindly go through posts no:583 & 588
from Mr.RKB.Since what Mr.RKB wrote in post 588 is not a solution for betterment of Tamil Brahmin community, I gave my suggestion in post no 589.
NOW SEE HIS COMMENTS IN POST NO 590 TO WHICH i POSTED MY COMMENTS IN POST NO: 591.i WROTE THE LAST SENTENCE TO EMPHASISE MY INABILITY TO HANDLE ANY RESPONSIBILITY BEING A miGRANT iNDIAN.
I DO NOT KNOW WHY SO MUCH PREJUIDICE IS THERE IN THIS FORUM AGAINST MIGRANTS IN FACT EVERYONE WHO HAVE LEFT INDIA ALWAYS WISH WELL FOR THEIR COUNTRY OF ORIGIN AND ARE PREPARED TO ASSIST
IN THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OF INDIA.
PLEASE READ SECOND PARA OF MY POST NO 581 regading the article
"From rags to Riches" and give a gist of the article for the benefit of all members of this forum.

 

[Harini]

Nobody suggested you not to help people of other community. You would now also received help from American, Englishman etc and so you have to reciprocate at international level as well. What is suggested is that you should simultaneously show patronage for your community as community, even if you haven't got any help from them. Will you do that?

To help others is important. Caste of the reciepient is not really important. It really takes a broad mind to help someone in need. Seldom people help others to become better than them, teachers are exceptions in this scenario. I was helped by 3 persons to migrate; to get a visa to go to one of the countries like UK, USA, Canada, Australia and the like is a dream for most persons. I was a pauper when I got my visa. (not that I had any money before..I was always a pauper). One Thenkalai Iyengar bought my flight ticket; one (kudiyanavan) Goundar and one Sengundha Mudaliyar helped me with expenses. I got my visa based on my trade. I learned my trade from one Nayar and one Ezhavar. One guy who stayed with all the time was an untouchable from Ottapaalam. I grew up in a Vada Kalai Iyengar family.

Now, kindly tell me, honestly which caste should I support for upliftment, please? It has to be fair and equitable. Thank you.