Science and Spirituality

[sravna]

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Science and Spirituality are as far apart as two sources of knowledge can be. They differ on “what?”, “why?” and “how?” with regard to knowledge acquired.

The first fundamental difference between Science and Spirituality is the object of study. Universal and timeless truths being its pursuit, Spirituality is concerned with the unchanging. But our body and the reality in which we live are physical which is characterized by change. The physical world being the focus of Science, implies a fundamental difference in the object of study between Science and Spirituality. One studies what is constantly changing and the other what is unchanging.

The goals of spirituality and science are also different. Whereas spirituality tries to make one’s mind evolve and become spiritual, Science simply is concerned with an objective study of the physical universe, offering to us the benefits arising out of such a study.

The third major difference is the means by which knowledge is acquired. In the case of spirituality, intuition can be the sole way of knowledge acquisition. On the other hand, even though Scientists too use intuition to form a hypothesis, it is only after affirmation by sensory perception or by experimentation and inference that the knowledge proposed by the hypothesis is accepted.

With the above differences at present, can Science and Spirituality ever converge? It is possible if the philosophers of Science enhance the scope of Science and Spiritual knowledge is affirmed or if the Spiritual gurus and practitioners can demonstrate empirically the truth of spiritual knowledge.

Practitioners of both the disciplines should endeavor to make the convergence possible because the appeal of timeless truths of Spirituality and the empirical proofs of Science are both compelling and if they can meet, the ensuing knowledge would be both purposeful and practical.

 

[Dr.Dinesh]

Hi Sravna Ji
Science and spirituality is 2 aspects of single reality...In the Quantum field both science(experiment) and spirituality(experience) plays role together...but understanding it was found to be difficult....
According to me.,
1. Science without spirituality is Blind and Spirituality without science is Lame.
2.Physical form of spirituality is science.
plz correct me if i am wrong....

 

[Dr.Dinesh]

Hi Sravna Ji
Science and spirituality is 2 aspects of single reality...In the Quantum field both science(experiment) and spirituality(experience) plays role together...but understanding it was found to be difficult....and i didnt give up learning quantum...still trying my best to understand...
According to me.,
1. Science without spirituality is Blind and Spirituality without science is Lame.
2.Physical form of spirituality is science.
plz correct me if i am wrong....

 

[renuka]

plz correct me if i am wrong....

Dear Dinesh,

I have noticed that you always type this line "plz correct me if i am wrong"...I know you are a young and humble person but at the same time youth is when the flower of confidence needs to bloom..humility is the fragrance that comes with time.

As a young person..do not always think you are "wrong" and always want to stand to be corrected..why doubt yourself?

Self doubt robs a person of a firm stand in later life.

One can be confident yet humble..best example is the late Dr APJ Abdul Kalam.

He firmly believed in himself and was a picture of confidence all the way thru with came in shades of humility.

I feel you should not always say "plz correct me if i am wrong"..do not use the word 'wrong"..there is no need to judge yourself or even anyone else for the matter...instead you can say "corrections and differing opinions welcomed"...that way you are not harshly judging yourself as wrong but at the same time open to the concept of errors in opinion.

 

[sravna]

Hi Sravna Ji
Science and spirituality is 2 aspects of single reality...In the Quantum field both science(experiment) and spirituality(experience) plays role together...but understanding it was found to be difficult....
According to me.,
1. Science without spirituality is Blind and Spirituality without science is Lame.
2.Physical form of spirituality is science.
plz correct me if i am wrong....

Dear Shri Dinesh,

Science without spirituality is indeed really blind. Spirituality on the other hand turns a blind eye at science. So science should get the vision to see beyond and spirituality should not overlook science.

 

[renuka]

Dear Shri Dinesh,

Science without spirituality is indeed really blind. Spirituality on the other hand turns a blind eye at science. So science should get the vision to see beyond and spirituality should not overlook science.

Dear Sravna,

How can "Spirituality" turn a blind eye at Science?

Only Pseudo Spirituality turns a blind eye to Science..True Spirituality knows that Existence is All Encompassing and nothing is really out of the Bubble of Existence.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

How can "Spirituality" turn a blind eye at Science?

Only Pseudo Spirituality turns a blind eye to Science..True Spirituality knows that Existence is All Encompassing and nothing is really out of the Bubble of Existence.

Dear Renuka,

I mean spirituality considers the world as only an illusion and not real in the same way as spiritual reality. But I think we should not ignore the worldly aspects because spirituality is very difficult to practice and a natural and step by step process is what would be ideal progress towards the spiritual.

 

[sravna]

Hi Sravna Ji

1.

Dear Dinesh,

I thought that was Einstein's quote. But I found out that Einstein said the opposite
Science without religion is lame and religion without science is blind.

But actually I think what you say is closer to truth than what Einstein said.

 

[sravna]

Folks, I have rewritten the article .Here is the new version:

Science and Spirituality are two major bodies of knowledge that try provide an understanding of reality. But they differ on“what?”, “why?” and “how?” with regard to knowledge acquired.

The first fundamental difference between Science and Spirituality is the object of study. Universal and timeless truths being its pursuit, Spirituality is concerned with the unchanging. But our body and the reality in which we live are physical which is characterized by change. The physical world being the focus of Science, implies a fundamental difference in the object of study between Science and Spirituality. One studies what is constantly changing and the other what is unchanging.

The goals of spirituality and science are also different. Spirituality tries to make one’s mind evolve and become spiritual,The study of the physical is secondary to this goal of helping the mind evolve.On the other hand, Science is simply concerned with objective study of the physical universe, offering to us the benefits arising out of such a study.

The third major difference is the means by which knowledge is acquired. In the case of spirituality, intuition can be the sole way of knowledge acquisition. On the other hand, even though Scientists too use intuition to form a hypothesis, it is only after affirmation by sensory perception or by experimentation and inference that the knowledge proposed by the hypothesis is accepted.

With the above differences at present, can Science and Spirituality ever converge? It is possible if the philosophers of Science enhance the scope of Science and can verify spiritual knowledge or if the Spiritual gurus and practitioners can bring spiritual knowledge down to the level of details that Science does and demonstrate empirically the truth of spiritual knowledge.

The above can be done without changing the nature of both. Scope of Science if enhanced to consider reality to extend beyond the physical and still scientific methods are followed as affirmation of hypotheses, the endeavour would remain objective. Science would have not to deviate from its methods and retain its essence. Spirituality on the other hand would just have to show that there is a spiritual significance to worldly activities. Thus spirituality can also maintain its essence.


Practitioners of both the disciplines should endeavour to make the convergence possible because the appeal of timeless truths of Spirituality and the empirical proofs of Science are both compelling and if they can meet, the ensuing knowledge would be both purposeful and practical.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sravna,

The physical world is a manifestation, or one facet of the ONE REALITY. Even this facet does not behave at will, but works according to so many intricate and complex laws, ultimately breaking down into simple nothingness, evidencing that all this physical universe is nothing but an illusion of humans.

Science tries to understand all the complex laws controlling the physical universe. In this respect science also is trying to unravel that 'facet' of the ONE REALITY. The so-called spirituality is like a monkey, on the ground, trying to hop off to the top-most branch of a tall tree and then imagining that it can easily climb down and understand the whole tree; it is, by its very essence, a lunatic effort but was somehow much encouraged in Hinduism because there was a class of people who had no physical work to do and could well live like the "Lotos eaters". Of course, the Upanishads themselves state that the "see-er cannot be seen, the knower cannot be known" but somehow, these aphorisms are not given much importance because we live in times which provide very good marketing prospects for the so-called 'spirituality'!

Science can, therefore, progress even without any association with spirituality and my own hope is that one day it will come to the definite conclusion that this physical universe is just a mirage. Spirituality will continue to be successfully marketed and people will attempt hopping on to the topmost branch of the tree, but will not succeed because the laws are such. Hence, science without spirituality is a passenger without baggage, whereas spirituality with or without science is good as a hallucination!

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sangom,

Your arguments would not hold water given the evidence I can show and its spectacular accordance with what was said may be 5000 years ago.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,

Your arguments would not hold water given the evidence I can show and its spectacular accordance with what was said may be 5000 years ago.

Dear Shri Sravna,

You may like to give details of the evidence, as also what you mean by "what was said may be 5000 years ago'. Both are cryptic in your post.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sravna,

You may like to give details of the evidence, as also what you mean by "what was said may be 5000 years ago'. Both are cryptic in your post.

Dear Shri Sangom,

I am in the process of writing a paper for submitting it to a reputed journal. If it gets accepted everyone will know. Kindly be patient.

 

[Dr.Dinesh]

Hi Renuka ji
I wont use "wrong" anymore:happy:Ji...thank u for enlightening me...

 

[Dr.Dinesh]

Hi Sangom ji
"Science can, therefore, progress even without any association with spirituality"....Sorry ji to say this i can't accept this line ...there r 2 things science can never ever achieve in proving...without the spirituality science will die one day sir...i can't reveal what is that two things....

 

[auh]

There is no spirituality in the sense of "seeking" something beyond this life and reaching out to a supreme consciousness etc. God or the absolute reality would always be a mirage and would be just as difficult as it would be for us to attain perfection of any kind.

Perhaps once we know that the ends and means are both this life (and within it), all norms of society would be blown apart; and hence the necessity to engage our minds in an arbitrary unknown variable. In the realm of spirituality, we are all blind men groping around...

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...OGeciMtAa4gkIxbJg&sig2=YNMnkOcy_2lvVlSbd_SOcA

This is Gods Paradox! I have a thread on Paradox I thought I will post it there It looks relevant here!

 

[sravna]

My answer is that God cannot do what will not make him omnipotent. That would not make sense given the meaning of the word omnipotent. We just have to take that creating a stone that God cannot lift is a contradiction.

 

[renuka]

My answer is that God cannot do what will not make him omnipotent.

Dear Sravna,

So you have found something that God can not do?

How did you come to this conclusion?

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

So you have found something that God can not do?

How did you come to this conclusion?

Dear Renuka,

If you say he was alive after he died, would it make sense? So God being omnipotent if you say that God can create a stone that he cannot lift or say that God cannot create a stone that he cannot lift, would not make sense.

Not all sentences make sense. Some can be created in a way that there are self contradictions.

 

[sravna]

Renuka,

Basically the concept has to be free of contradictions. The way the word "omnipotence" is being used in the paradox allows contradictions to be introduced. So the concept itself is what is not valid.

 

[sravna]

As simple solution would be that even if it would seem that God is not omnipotent either way , God actually can make us think he is omnipotent by his powers. Problem solved.

 

[sravna]

Being in a timeless state is itself proof of omnipotence and from advaitic point of view any act of creation and any action in general are illusions and do not prove anything about the omnipotence of God. To conclude, God has the powers to do anything but he does everything with a purpose because he is also omniscient or all intelligent.

 

[sravna]

God could show a new reality in which what is contradictory in a reality would be not in the higher reality. This is what is done in advaita where it is impossible for one to show contradictions with respect to God's powers or his acts

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

Being in a timeless state is itself proof of omnipotence and from advaitic point of view any act of creation and any action in general are illusions and do not prove anything about the omnipotence of God. To conclude, God has the powers to do anything but he does everything with a purpose because he is also omniscient or all intelligent.

Spirituality is a concept or belief - Scince establishes that concept or belief to be true by proof! Till it is proved it only belief! Now to establish every thing said in our Puranas without proof is only belief!

For exmple our Gods created so many Asuras but not even one that could not be vanquished by him! In Narasima Avatara - கடவுள் தூணிலும் இருப்பார் துரும்பிலும் இருப்பார் concept(Omniscense & omnipotent) is highlighted But a situation is created where God could vanquish Hiranyakasyabu when he was granted his boon with a loop hole - Like all our laws of this land - is exploited by shrewed crooks to escape punishement Bu unlike crooks Gods use these loopholes to punish the asuras! So no Gods Pardox as he has not created a stone which he cannot lift! But still it is unexplained why சர்வவல்லமை உள்ள கடவுள்(Ominipoteent God) should use loopholes to punish asuras!! what purpose is served this way?