Science and Spirituality

[sravna]

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Dear Smt JJ,

I have a slight disagreement with the website that has given the solution. It says that omnipotence if considered from the point of view of Descartes will not resolve the paradox. But that is what omnipotence is. God should be able to do anything and do it logically. So, he just cannot and would not in fact show it by making contradictions become true because that itself is a contradiction and illogical.

So in my view the advaitic point of view of God offers a neat solution to the paradox.

 

[sravna]

Spirituality is a concept or belief - Scince establishes that concept or belief to be true by proof! Till it is proved it only belief! Now to establish every thing said in our Puranas without proof is only belief!

For exmple our Gods created so many Asuras but not even one that could not be vanquished by him! In Narasima Avatara - கடவுள் தூணிலும் இருப்பார் துரும்பிலும் இருப்பார் concept(Omniscense & omnipotent) is highlighted But a situation is created where God could vanquish Hiranyakasyabu when he was granted his boon with a loop hole - Like all our laws of this land - is exploited by shrewed crooks to escape punishement Bu unlike crooks Gods use these loopholes to punish the asuras! So no Gods Pardox as he has not created a stone which he cannot lift! But still it is unexplained why சர்வவல்லமை உள்ள கடவுள்(Ominipoteent God) should use loopholes to punish asuras!! what purpose is served this way?

Dear Smt .JJ,

Logic is the answer. He does not use his omnipotence or magic if possible in the physical world.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

Dear Smt .JJ,

Logic is the answer. He does not use his omnipotence or magic if possible in the physical world.

Coming out of தூண் when smashed by the Asura is Logic in the physical world?

 

[sravna]

Coming out of தூண் when smashed by the Asura is Logic in the physical world?

Yes it is. It proves the truth that God is everywhere. An inveterate illogical mind needs that hard logic.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Science and spirituality

Dear Sri sravna,

At the outset I must admit, for me God the Almighty is still an "X" factor,(A variable in a given situation that could have the most significant impact on the outcome). My search for an answer acceptable to my faculites of understanding continues still....

It was Albert Einstein who said "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift."

Science tries to unravel the mystery of nature and succeeds in finding an answer for "how", but could not get a conclusive answer for "Why". I believe, It is in the realm of Spirituality to find an answer for "why".

Cosmologist Sean Michael Carroll an acknowledged atheist delares in a discussion that
“If one of your roles for God is creating the universe. . . .then modern cosmology has removed that.”

“I agree that there are questions that science doesn’t answer. Science tells us what happens in the world and how it happens. That’s a little bit different from questions of purpose and meaning. But when we get to questions of purpose and meaning, I think it’s very important to base that discussion on reality—on how the world really does work.”
Carroll then emphasized that if you believe in a theistic god, one who intervenes in the world, then that assertion can be judged scientifically, while deism, of course, is outside the bailiwick of science. When asked about the Big Questions, that is, “questions of purpose and meaning,” Carroll responded that the answers must come from within ourselves, and that we must always base our values of meaning and purpose on reality. (The implication, of course, is that we shouldn’t impute them to god.)
(Source:The curiosity conversation: a debate about Hawking, the universe, and God)

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Brahmanyan,

Everyone has his own views on the existence or non-existence of God. In my view the experiences of those who believe in God have more credence because they are positive proofs. Even if it is faith there is still some intuition in it. From my experiences the evidence for the existence of God is overwhelming.

I had a major health problem. It did not respond to medication. It struck me at some point that I can cure it myself. That itself was more than lucky coincidence because that was when the problem began to intensify. In a short period of time I was able to bring it under control. However after 7 years i.,e the beginning of 2015 , the problem began to hit back in a major way. This is when something miraculous happened. I tried to make the spiritual energy automatically respond to the problem and to my surprise it did. the problem started waning gradually and in about 2 months it was under what I feel permanent control. I have talked about the increasing spiritual energy in the forum and it is at the point I mentioned above, began to happen. I still feel the energy rising in me.

We equate spirituality to divinity. without that divine help, I am sure I could not have even survived. But now I am feeling better than ever before, thanks to God.

So I would say such extremely positive experiences cannot be dismissed easily. It has strong logic too. It has been my endeavour to prove it using logic. Unless one gets such personal experiences, some may not be inclined to believe in God and rely on some invalid logic to support their case.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

Yes it is. It proves the truth that God is everywhere. An inveterate illogical mind needs that hard logic.

clinching acid test to prove God is every where - Hard Logic!- Then he should be inside Hiranyakasyabu as well that I suppose is not hard logic for illogical minds!

 

[sravna]

If one can correlate one's mental experiences to spiritual knowledge that's what one needs to prove to oneself about the truth of spirituality. Of course it is left to others to believe or not believe those experiences. That's where empirical proofs come in handy. And that is what I endeavour to do.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

Yes it is. It proves the truth that God is everywhere. An inveterate illogical mind needs that hard logic.

clinching acid test to prove God is every where - Hard Logic!- Then he should be inside Hiranyakasyabu as well that I suppose is not hard logic for illogical minds!

 

[sravna]

clinching acid test to prove God is every where - Hard Logic!- Then he should be inside Hiranyakasyabu as well that I suppose is not hard logic for illogical minds!

Madam,

That is the essence of physical existence. The fight between what you see and what you intuit. When one believes only what one sees, you finally get to see the truth in the above way.

 

[Dr.Dinesh]

Hi guys
we can all become OMNISCIENT.......so that we can reach OMNIPOTENT easily...

 

[renuka]

Spirituality is an imaginary friend.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

Dear Shri Brahmanyan,

Everyone has his own views on the existence or non-existence of God. In my view the experiences of those who believe in God have more credence because they are positive proofs. Even if it is faith there is still some intuition in it. From my experiences the evidence for the existence of God is overwhelming.

I had a major health problem. It did not respond to medication. It struck me at some point that I can cure it myself. That itself was more than lucky coincidence because that was when the problem began to intensify. In a short period of time I was able to bring it under control. However after 7 years i.,e the beginning of 2015 , the problem began to hit back in a major way. This is when something miraculous happened. I tried to make the spiritual energy automatically respond to the problem and to my surprise it did. the problem started waning gradually and in about 2 months it was under what I feel permanent control. I have talked about the increasing spiritual energy in the forum and it is at the point I mentioned above, began to happen. I still feel the energy rising in me.

We equate spirituality to divinity. without that divine help, I am sure I could not have even survived. But now I am feeling better than ever before, thanks to God.

So I would say such extremely positive experiences cannot be dismissed easily. It has strong logic too. It has been my endeavour to prove it using logic. Unless one gets such personal experiences, some may not be inclined to believe in God and rely on some invalid logic to support their case.

Really a wonderful experiance of yours which did give relief to your health related problems I am really happy about it. But experiance like this is no substitute for experiments to get a logical proof!

 

[sravna]

Really a wonderful experiance of yours which did give relief to your health related problems I am really happy about it. But experiance like this is no substitute for experiments to get a logical proof!

Madam,

Thank you. The good thing is just like experiments do, results like mine can be made to happen in others too in an unfailing manner.Wouldn't you accept that as proof? As an example one of the cancer patients I am treating has started to go back to work. It seems doctors are astonished seeing the progress.This is wonderful news to me. This can be made to happen in others too.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

https://books.google.co.in/books?id...ved=0CEcQ6AEwB2oVChMI8u2Dy9uUyQIVAlmOCh196ws9

This book" Pardox of Gods and science of omniscience"is really interesting You can have taste of it in the above link

Remember Science is built on Solid experimental logical conclusions - But scientists may have faith and belief that has no proof!

 

[renuka]

Madam,

Thank you. The good thing is just like experiments do, results like mine can be made to happen in others too in an unfailing manner.Wouldn't you accept that as proof? As an example one of the cancer patients I am treating has started to go back to work. It seems doctors are astonished seeing the progress.This is wonderful news to me. This can be made to happen in others too.

Dear Sravna,

Is the patient still on treatment for cancer?

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

Is the patient still on treatment for cancer?

Yes Renuka. He is almost cured.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

Madam,

Thank you. The good thing is just like experiments do, results like mine can be made to happen in others too in an unfailing manner.Wouldn't you accept that as proof? As an example one of the cancer patients I am treating has started to go back to work. It seems doctors are astonished seeing the progress.This is wonderful news to me. This can be made to happen in others too.

This is not like simple logical induction as ஒரு பானை சோத்க்கு ஒரு அரிசி பதம் - It imay be the fallacy of Hasty generalisation You are trying stastistical inputs to project or predict an outcome They are not full proof - Remember the latest Bihar Poll projections

 

[sravna]

No madam it is not hasty generalization. It works in every case. I say so because I think I also got the logic behind it.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

No madam it is not hasty generalization. It works in every case. I say so because I think I also got the logic behind it.

தெய்வீக மருத்துவம் looks like (non) medical miracle! Does it involve காசினி கீரை from அமேஸான்காடு...?

 

[sravna]

Dear Smt JJ,


I am reproducing what I wrote in another thread here:

Let me first state the problem and sum up my understanding of the solution to the problem

Problem: Disorders in the human body
Solution to the problem: By increasing spiritual energy in the body.

To understand how exactly the problem gets solved one has to first understand what is spiritual energy and how exactly it solves the problem. To understand spiritual energy, I rely on the understanding due to our scriptures.

One school of thought is there is soul that is the actual self and it is God or pure consciousness. As pure consciousness, it has immense powers . However it is veiled. There also exists in between the physical body and the soul, an intermediate entity called the mind, which basically is what interacts with the external world.

The mind constantly keeps interpreting the physical signals from the external world and reacts to them. The mind may be either swayed by the physical reality or use its own strength attained from the power of the soul to overpower the signals from the physical reality. The power that the mind can use depends on how pure or unveiled the soul is at any time. The power that the mind generates comes out as spiritual energy which can be projected onto the external physical reality.

In the case of performing health cures , the spiritual energy generated from the mind is projected onto a body so that the spiritual energy in that body increases. Spiritual energy has the power of making something it acts on to be interconnected. The disorders of a body are caused from moving away from the state of holistic nature and so when spiritual energy acts on it, it regains that state.

The above is my understanding of how cure is effected.

From there we can use the concepts of Ayurveda to explain in greater detail how the cure happens. Basically the spiritual energy entering the body can be thought of as balancing the tridoshas and restoring the health. But to explain it in terms of current medical knowledge would be to explain the concepts of Ayurveda in terms of the current medical knowledge. I am trying to do that.

 

[Vaagmi]

I am reproducing what I wrote in another thread here:
Let me first state the problem and sum up my understanding of the solution to the problem
Problem: Disorders in the human body
Solution to the problem: By increasing spiritual energy in the body.
To understand how exactly the problem gets solved one has to first understand what is spiritual energy and how exactly it solves the problem. To understand spiritual energy, I rely on the understanding due to our scriptures.
One school of thought is there is soul that is the actual self and it is God or pure consciousness. As pure consciousness, it has immense powers . However it is veiled. There also exists in between the physical body and the soul, an intermediate entity called the mind, which basically is what interacts with the external world.
The mind constantly keeps interpreting the physical signals from the external world and reacts to them. The mind may be either swayed by the physical reality or use its own strength attained from the power of the soul to overpower the signals from the physical reality. The power that the mind can use depends on how pure or unveiled the soul is at any time. The power that the mind generates comes out as spiritual energy which can be projected onto the external physical reality.

Upto this I agree with most of what you have said though I differ on some points.

In the case of performing health cures , the spiritual energy generated from the mind is projected onto a body so that the spiritual energy in that body increases. Spiritual energy has the power of making something it acts on to be interconnected. The disorders of a body are caused from moving away from the state of holistic nature and so when spiritual energy acts on it, it regains that state.

The above is my understanding of how cure is effected.

This is the real problem part of the whole idea. You can use your spiritual energy on your own body with the help of your mind to cure an illness that YOU suffer. It is possible and people have achieved this long back.

When it comes to projecting YOUR spiritual energy onto another mind or body, there are several imponderables to deal with and barriers to be transcended. It is just impossible. At best you can try it on yourself when you are not well and then try to teach others to do it themselves. YOU can not do it for others or on others. For this the first requisite will be a common language to communicate. Pains, happiness, depression, sadness are all terms which really mean nothing. Each one will deserve to be treated as a Lemma and reduced to communicable common denominators so that the experiment can be meaningfully performed and results can be analysed for success or failure and reasons. But that is a tall order. We are each a sealed capsule. Communication between each other is just peripheral. For an entire lifetime we search and search but in vain for the common denominator which will make me and you exactly the same. The repeated effort to cross this barrier perhaps makes life on earth beautiful and enjoyable as otherwise there would have been no music, no art, no poetry and no love or ecstasy between mates. LOL.

So your effort has to start at a very fundamental level--that of real communication between the "capsules". LOL.

From there we can use the concepts of Ayurveda to explain in greater detail how the cure happens. Basically the spiritual energy entering the body can be thought of as balancing the tridoshas and restoring the health. But to explain it in terms of current medical knowledge would be to explain the concepts of Ayurveda in terms of the current medical knowledge. I am trying to do that.

Ayurveda deals with body and the extent to which the body is affected by mind in a disease. It then goes external into the world of medicines and therapy. It does not deal elaborately with the mind itself treating the body and that is what you are talking about.

Ramana Maharshi dispensed with the need for anaesthesia when a major surgery was performed on him and he did not feel any pain and he survived too. Perhaps he switched off the energy-body interaction completely for the period of the surgery. LOL.

 

[sravna]

When it comes to projecting YOUR spiritual energy onto another mind or body, there are several imponderables to deal with and barriers to be transcended. It is just impossible. .

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

I have given my views and am willing to back it up with evidence.

You have to show that

My arguments are logically invalid

or

The solution will not work in the way solutions of science work

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

Spirit (uality) in Medical Pharmacopeia is an ancient concept when mixtures used be dispensed Now Nobody use theses Tinctures - extracts with spiirit - is almost removed from Pharmacopeia Now medicine is high tech with no connection with spirit or spirutuality though few claim Vinayaka is an example of High tech organ transplant procedures! I remember some one even produced Motor spirit calling it மூலிகை Petrol! Instead of being recognized for his discovery he landed in Jail! New drugs before coming into market have to have extensive trials on patients and is highly regulated with strict controlls I wonder if these spiitual therapy trials follow any norms or controll to be approved by some bodies like FDA

 

[sravna]

Dear Smt JJ,

I am trying for scientific acceptance of the cure. In the meantime if you can logically refute the hypothesis I would welcome it.