Science and Spirituality

[Vaagmi]

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Dear Shri Vaagmi,
I have given my views and am willing to back it up with evidence.
You have to show that My arguments are logically invalid
or
The solution will not work in the way solutions of science work

Dear Sri Sravna,

My intention is not to pour cold water on your enthusiasm.

Science has its own method of testing before accepting a finding.

Now let us take the situation which you are trying to deal with.

Here is a man X who is suffering from severe hepatitis. Science has determined the condition as one which is about an afflicted liver. Because it is well proved we need not question that. So we can take that the liver of Mr.X is affected. Science has built up over a long period an archive on this disease. The disease can be because of various reasons and these have been identified and documented well. For simplicity let us accept that Mr. X suffers from a hepatitis which is due to what is popularly known as jaundice infection.

Now if we observe all this the following points become clear to us:

Mr.X's condition is not unique as there had been several cases of hepatitis. We have well established scientific methods to determine the condition by testing the blood and urine. And there are medicines which help mr.X's liver recover quickly. It is also a fact that god has built in excess capacity in liver and so even with half a liver functioning effectively Mr. X can lead a normal life -- that is if half the liver dies and gets atrophied.

Here medical science records the initial condition of the patient with his out put by analysing it and records it.

Science determines on the medicine to be given because it is recorded as to how a chemical contained in the medicine works on the human system and on the germs etc., and importantly what are the side effects of the chemical on the body's other subsystems. To manage any ill effect on such subsystems other chemicals are added and the whole thing becomes a course of treatment. The treatment involves determining the quantity of chemicals to be given in and it is determined precisely as dosage on the basis of several parameters including the body weight of the patient.

And the most important aspect of scientific management is that the results are universally reproducible independently. Mr X and Mr. Y and any number of patients can be treated this way with similar results.

Now coming to your treatment:

Let us take the same X again.

For determining the disease, causative factors and prognosis let us accept the existing medical science's records as only the method of treatment only varies.

Now you are administering the patient energy through some method to cure him. This is your method of treatment.

Do you have info on the energy that you are going to apply? what is the unit of measurement of that energy?

Do you intend to deliver your curing energing energy depending on the severity of the disease and if so what are the parameter you are going to use to determine the severity and the required dose of energy? Medical science has methods for this but if you have your own methods let us know.

Your curing energy -- how does it work on the other subsystems in the body? Do you have info independently verified by peers? Has your energy method independently tried by other laboratories and if so what is the peer opinion?

What if your curing energy is administered in excess of need? What will be the effect?


(to be continued)

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

Facts:

1. People have approached me with health problems
2. I have treated them
3. All these people have either been cured or are showing promising progress

I agree that science employs rigorous methods to prove its claims. But I really do not feel the need to follow only the methods that science employs or see knowledge as science does. Why should I use a microscope or be worried about chemicals in the body when I have a handle over them at a higher level? The scientist tries to analyze, analyze and analyze.This may be actually counter productive because you begin to lose the big picture. I have a grip over the high level details of what causes the cure which is the spiritual energy. I also understand the source of the energy. Since the cures happen, one has to conclude that the energy gets transferred to the patient.

It is now that Ayurveda takes over. It says that the body of every person is made up of three types of energies which are formed from the 5 elements. These energies are in unique proportion in each and the deviation from that causes disorders. The spiritual energy that is transferred to the body of the patient can restore the proportion of the three energies in that person and make him healthy. Restoring balance or proportion is all about making the body go back to its natural state or make it spiritual.Even though the actual method of curing of a person in Ayurveda is by physical intake of something, the cure is effected by restoring the balance which is what spiritual energy directly does. Since spiritual energy treats the body as a whole, you also do not see any side effects when a particular disease is treated.

Even though I have got excellent results in solving health problems, some of what I say may seems as just assertions. I am working on conducting a scientific study to satisfy the people who are trained in scientific methods and plan to publish the results of the study.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

Have a few questions:


1)What if a person only has a certain quota of usable spiritual energy and when one uses all of that in your case where you use it up to cure others..so what happens next?

Isn't a debt created here? Where do you recharge your spiritual energy? Or do you work on with background spiritual energy but a debt is created with you and the person you cure.

Aren't you afraid of a Karmic debt being formed between you and your "patient".

You see in the case of a doctor no Karmic debt is formed cos its a profession and there is a transaction and no usage of spiritual energy but not in the case of a spiritual healer.

BTW don't you feel tired after every healing session?

Does you family approve about this..isn't your spouse worried for your well being?

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

Have a few questions:

1)What if a person only has a certain quota of usable spiritual energy and when one uses all of that in your case where you use it up to cure others..so what happens next?

Isn't a debt created here? Where do you recharge your spiritual energy? Or do you work on with background spiritual energy but a debt is created with you and the person you cure.

Aren't you afraid of a Karmic debt being formed between you and your "patient".

You see in the case of a doctor no Karmic debt is formed cos its a profession and there is a transaction and no usage of spiritual energy but not in the case of a spiritual healer.

BTW don't you feel tired after every healing session?

Does you family approve about this..isn't your spouse worried for your well being?

Dear Renuka,

One's soul is the source of spiritual energy and I have the intuition it would keep creating it indefinitely.

This is the clarity I got after thinking on the aspect of karma:

As long as you do not alter the natural constitution i.e, make the proportion of the 3 doshas at birth even more balanced , you are not tampering with the laws of karma. What I do would then be equivalent to altering the environmental factors just like what the other treatments do. Also, spiritual energy if it is high enough will only act in accordance with nature and would not violate the laws of karma.

My parents don't approve of this but my spouse understands.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

Dear Renuka,

One's soul is the source of spiritual energy and I have the intuition it would keep creating it indefinitely.

This is the clarity I got after thinking on the aspect of karma:



. Also, spiritual energy if it is high enough will only act in accordance with nature and would not violate the laws of karma.

.

Looks like theory of " Karma Cola" and not true Karma - கர்மம் கர்மம் !!

 

[sravna]

Looks like theory of " Karma Cola" and not true Karma - கர்மம் கர்மம் !!

I understand that your logic says that it is not in agreement with what I say. That's ok. But you need to show some restraint in the way you use language.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

I understand that your logic says that it is not in agreement with what I say. That's ok. But you need to show some restraint in the way you use language.

Obviously you seem to be hurt by my way of using language I am sorry that your hurt by my usage of language though that was not the intention - I donot dispute your right to be hurt! But freedom of expression is my birth right and I donot copramise on that!

Logic is an universal science or art There is no question of your or my logic! It ie either Logic(al) or Illogic(al) Logic has 2 branches Deduction and Induction - Intution is not logic and may be illogical!

 

[sravna]

Logic is an universal science or art There is no question of your or my logic! It ie either Logic(al) or Illogic(al) Logic has 2 branches Deduction and Induction - Intution is not logic and may be illogical!

Thanks for the information. I am glad you are so well informed.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

Thanks for the information. I am glad you are so well informed.

Though hurt by expression you have not tried to kill me That magnanimity I appreciate Thank you!

 

[sravna]

Though hurt by expression you have not tried to kill me That magnanimity I appreciate Thank you!

Dear Smt. JJ,

I welcome any disagreement with my views and welcome any rational rebuttals to them. I do not see the need for jibes. It is unproductive and may be counter productive and serves no useful purpose.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Sri Sravna,

I quote from your post # 52:

I agree that science employs rigorous methods to prove its claims. But I really do not feel the need to follow only the methods that science employs or see knowledge as science does. Why should I use a microscope or be worried about chemicals in the body when I have a handle over them at a higher level? The scientist tries to analyze, analyze and analyze.This may be actually counter productive because you begin to lose the big picture. I have a grip over the high level details of what causes the cure which is the spiritual energy. I also understand the source of the energy. Since the cures happen, one has to conclude that the energy gets transferred to the patient.

For a peer review and independent repetition of results with the same experiment we have to have so many common denominators. They should mean the same to you and any one else trying your method. In the absence of that it will just a random non-repeatable experience of an individual. I thought of going into details of how science rigorously tests hypotheses but I give up inview of your quoted views. I only wish you success.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sri Sravna,

I quote from your post # 52:




For a peer review and independent repetition of results with the same experiment we have to have so many common denominators. They should mean the same to you and any one else trying your method. In the absence of that it will just a random non-repeatable experience of an individual. I thought of going into details of how science rigorously tests hypotheses but I give up inview of your quoted views. I only wish you success.

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

Though I do not agree that the knowledge of Science given the limitations of its methods can be a complete one, I do have respect for the rigorous way it tests its hypotheses.You can go ahead with your suggestions please.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

I have a first hand experience with spiritual healing.

As I told you before I have cluster headache and it can be really painful.

Once a famous person from North India came here and he has spiritual curing powers and many went to see him including me.

I told him I have cluster headache and he put his hand on my head for a few seconds..thats all.

Then I left the place and after 5 minutes I could feel an electric current feeling running where he touched me.

I was pain free for 1 year!

Yes..totally pain free for 1 year..then I after 1 year I started getting the pain again but not as bad as before and not as frequent as before

To a great extent I am grateful to his curing cos my pain went away for almost 1 year and now its not too bad.

But what I find strange is..does spiritual healing need a renewal session cos I did get back the pain but lesser intensity.

Was one dose of curing not enough?

So in the cases you cure..how do you know how many sessions a person needs?

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

What happened in your case is the transfer of spiritual energy to your body. Whether or not one session is enough or more than one are needed depends on how long will the spiritual energy transferred to the body weather the wear and tear of time and other factors. But generally a few sessions would be enough to solve the problems permanently.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

What happened in your case is the transfer of spiritual energy to your body. Whether or not one session is enough or more than one are needed depends on how long will the spiritual energy transferred to the body weather the wear and tear of time and other factors. But generally a few sessions would be enough to solve the problems permanently.

But the person was confident that one session would be enough..in fact he told me from now on you wont have the headache.

He was only partially right cos I was only pain free for a year.

Wouldn't he have known that his powers come with an expiry date?

So Sravna...how would you know if your powers too come with a bar code saying "best before dd/mm/yy(date/month/year)"?

 

[sravna]

No Renuka, in spite of what he said, the quality of the spiritual energy is also important meaning spiritual starts from a point where it is destructible to a point nothing can destroy it. That may be the reason that your headache is back after a year. But I think with just a 5 minute session solving the problem for a year seems good spiritual power.

Do you want me to try a cure? Let us see how it goes. You can give your feedback.

 

[GANESH65]

I do agree with the views of the author. Most of the modern day inventions do find mention in our spiritual books written centuries ago. That way we can easily be convinced that the idea/concept was there centuries ago which ultimately resulted into invention in this era. Study on inter-relaionship of Science and Spirituality is there fore more than a necessity now and who knows may prove better useful for generations to come.

Ganesh K iyer

 

[renuka]

No Renuka, in spite of what he said, the quality of the spiritual energy is also important meaning spiritual starts from a point where it is destructible to a point nothing can destroy it. That may be the reason that your headache is back after a year. But I think with just a 5 minute session solving the problem for a year seems good spiritual power.

Do you want me to try a cure? Let us see how it goes. You can give your feedback.

Dear Sravna,

I feel the best answer was given to me by a Buddhist monk.He told me that there a blockage of some channel in my head and its mainly related to a Vata Dosha and energy channel.

He said a cure is not easy for this but it should get better with time.

I felt he gave a very honest answer.

Thank you for your offer but at present I am learning to live with it...after all its not that bad anymore.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

I feel the best answer was given to me by a Buddhist monk.He told me that there a blockage of some channel in my head and its mainly related to a Vata Dosha and energy channel.

He said a cure is not easy for this but it should get better with time.

I felt he gave a very honest answer.

Thank you for your offer but at present I am learning to live with it...after all its not that bad anymore.

No Problem.

 

[sravna]

For those interested in spirituality and even for others take a look at: http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

I used to read that site often but they seem obsessed with demons/pitr dosha etc.

They had an article once claiming to know that Albert Einstein is now in some lower loka becos he was not spiritual enough and was only interested in science.

That article also claimed that Einstein was from a higher loka before being born on earth and he made fun of some spiritual beings there and was born on earth becos of that but since he lacked spirituality he went to a lesser loka after death.

So I was thinking "wow!! so much info"

Then I asked them a question "since you have so much info on Einstein's location after his death..can you please try to locate MH 370"

As usual...no definite answer.

So Sravna....I stopped believing in all this so called spirituality claims of people cos no one can still locate MH370.

Everyone will eventually depend on physical evidence but yet claim to have spiritual powers.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sravna,

I used to read that site often but they seem obsessed with demons/pitr dosha etc.

They had an article once claiming to know that Albert Einstein is now in some lower loka becos he was not spiritual enough and was only interested in science.

That article also claimed that Einstein was from a higher loka before being born on earth and he made fun of some spiritual beings there and was born on earth becos of that but since he lacked spirituality he went to a lesser loka after death.

So I was thinking "wow!! so much info"

Then I asked them a question "since you have so much info on Einstein's location after his death..can you please try to locate MH 370"

As usual...no definite answer.

So Sravna....I stopped believing in all this so called spirituality claims of people cos no one can still locate MH370.

Everyone will eventually depend on physical evidence but yet claim to have spiritual powers.

In my old age now, I firmly believe that all these talks about spiritual, spiritual energy, lower & higher lokas, ability to see where (in which loka) one deceased person currently lives, and so on and so forth, are all unproved talks because the hindu religion has been overflown by ever so many superstitious beliefs and so much of misleading information contained in its own scriptures.

I have also known, during my lifetime, one or two cases, who were extremely religious in their outlook and living style, somehow claiming that they had this so-called spiritual energy. Of these, one person, a Nambudiri, was locked up in a room since his parents felt he had turned mad (that was about 60 or so years ago!) and resorted to mantravAdis to cure the fellow's madness. Ultimately, it was reported that this man somehow escaped from his locked room, in the pretext of taking a bath in the Mana tank (Mana is the large family house of Nambudiris) before one such mantravAdam was to start. Later he was found roaming the village roads asking people for "something to eat"; obviously his spiritual power or energy could neither satiate his hunger nor produce even a handful of food!

The second case was that of a Devi bhakta who one fine morning started claiming he had spiritual powers or energy. This person started very soon to recite loudly many, many of the alphabets in various moolamantras, without rhyme or reason and died some months later.

I, therefore, tend to view all such cases of spirituality as examples of border line psychiatric cases which if diagnosed and treated properly, may help the patient to come back to normalcy.

 

[Jaykay767]

Our Vedic religion is based on the spiritual realm, spiritual energy & the ability to channel that for the Good. Miracles & spiritual healing are not only in our religion, but in all religions. Jesus & the many miracles he performed during his lifetime is well known.

Isn’t it surprising that people come to religious forums & peddle their theories that I don’t believe in spirituality etc… well who the hell cares? LOL!! If one does not believe in spirituality, then why even come to religious forums?

Having said this, how successful Sravna is, can definitely be debated, & requested to provide sufficient proof as required.

Now don’t be surprised, if one retard termite comes out of the heap & tries to throw shakadai on me as usual. LOL !

 

[renuka]

Now don’t be surprised, if one retard termite comes out of the heap & tries to throw shakadai on me as usual. LOL !

Termite and Shakadai?

I thoughts termites dwell in wood...they eat wood too.

So how on earth can a termite throw shakadai on you?LOL

 

[sangom]

Termite and Shakadai?

I thoughts termites dwell in wood...they eat wood too.

So how on earth can a termite throw shakadai on you?LOL

varAhams rolling on s**t will not obviously know such general things. They can only spread the bad smell all around!