Secular India

[renuka]

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Your post cannot be more true.

Most Hindus do not know what the Vedas, Upanishads, Brahmanas, Gita etc contain. Mainly bcoz the language is Sanskrit, which is no longer spoken but exists only in literature. There are few who can interpret the sanskrit texts correctly for anyone. Besides most of the so-called hindus are not interested in knowing their religion. for them roti kapda aur makaan is all that they want. furthermore the contents of the sanskrit texts are too complicated, you need to exercise your brain (which harldy any common indian would love to) taking it through an intellectual gymnasium. for any text/scripture to appeal, it has to be simple, translated in a language familiar to you. hence the bible, which is translated in almost every language of the world, has impacted the global population. nevertheless, the contents of the bible, especially the new testament, are very simple to understand. whereas when it comes to sanskrit texts, gone are the likes of chinmayananda et al who can give a captivating discourse on gita to a large audience. the current indian population does not want philosophy. they want instant miracles. hence a benny hinn could draw a large crowd in india than a vivekananda could in US.

Dear Kuvs,

I started my detail study of Sanskrit Bhagavata Purana two days ago..reading the Sanskrit text and writing down each stanza..today I was reading a stanza which in my opinion was very prejudiced.

It was praising the glory of hearing the Bhagavata Purana and the stanza mentioned that one who has never heard the Bhagavata Purana in his life is a fool who leads a life like a Chandala and a donkey..nothing but a living corpse and fie upon such persons who only brought upon pain to their mothers during delivery.


I was what??? What is the need to be so harsh and be anti Chandala here? and why speak ill of a donkey too? Isnt the same Brahman in all living beings..Bhagavad Geeta says one who has Samadarshinah sees the same Atma in all ..Chandala included but here Bhagavata Purana was totally calling a Chandala a living corpse!LOL

Now this kind of text will make any person think twice of being a Hindu.

I was totally not happy with this stanza that I altered it and wrote it as "one who has not heard Bhagavata Purana leads a life like an inert object sans consciousness" ..so that the message is got across without the need to target any caste/community or animal.

A friend of mine told me that I have committed a great sin by rephrasing a stanza from Bhagavata Puran cos he was saying Chandala and donkey here is like a Vritti and not a physical Chandala or Donkey but I told him religious text should be presentable with polite words and not harsh sounding whatever the hidden meaning might be if we want Hindus to not convert. Sin or no sin I feel some text need to be rephrased.

 

[tks]

Your post cannot be more true.

Most Hindus do not know what the Vedas, Upanishads, Brahmanas, Gita etc contain. Mainly bcoz the language is Sanskrit, which is no longer spoken but exists only in literature. There are few who can interpret the sanskrit texts correctly for anyone. Besides most of the so-called hindus are not interested in knowing their religion. for them roti kapda aur makaan is all that they want. furthermore the contents of the sanskrit texts are too complicated, you need to exercise your brain (which harldy any common indian would love to) taking it through an intellectual gymnasium. for any text/scripture to appeal, it has to be simple, translated in a language familiar to you. hence the bible, which is translated in almost every language of the world, has impacted the global population. nevertheless, the contents of the bible, especially the new testament, are very simple to understand. whereas when it comes to sanskrit texts, gone are the likes of chinmayananda et al who can give a captivating discourse on gita to a large audience. the current indian population does not want philosophy. they want instant miracles. hence a benny hinn could draw a large crowd in india than a vivekananda could in US.

There is a comical allegory that shows the biases inherent in such posts


Now first the joke:


A police officer sees a drunken man intently searching the ground near a lamppost and asks him the goal of his quest. The inebriate replies that he is looking for his car keys, and the officer helps for a few minutes without success then he asks whether the man is certain that he dropped the keys near the lamppost.


“No,” is the reply, “I lost the keys somewhere across the street.” “Why look here?” asks the surprised and irritated officer. “The light is much better here,” the intoxicated man responds with aplomb.


Ordinary 'relatively uneducated' Hindu who is exposed to the epics like Ramayana (regardless of Tulsi or Kamba Ramayana or Valmiki ) has basic knowledge of Dharma and conducts life based on the teachings implied in these epics. They may not be scholars but they do not need a book like bible to save them.


They dont need to go and understand truth with a missionary who in large part are adharmic and intolerant (and certainly non-accepting of other religions). Going to them will be like looking for a key because light is there..

 

[krish44]

there is difference in meaning of secularism in western countries which means separation of state and religion and India it conveys state tolerates and accepts religeous practices of other religions in addition to hindu.

some of the religions in india , muslim, christianity are my way or highway type . activities of many christian missionaries and muslim clerics are

mostly unacceptable . some hindu outfits ,communities are also guilty of excesses against their low caste groups and preachers of other religions
there are two alternatives .
be a hindu state and make it the state religion and be like islamic nations and neglect others.

alternatively separate the state from religion . the latter may not be acceptable to the majority hindus

emperor akbar created a new religion incorporating islam and hinduism without many takers

the view that old texts should be translated or modified is not welcome . those who are keen can learn sanskrit and study

others can shed the religeous baggage and live a life free of religion and hatred towards other human beings of different religions

 

[Vaagmi]

Your post cannot be more true.

Most Hindus do not know what the Vedas, Upanishads, Brahmanas, Gita etc contain. Mainly bcoz the language is Sanskrit, which is no longer spoken but exists only in literature. There are few who can interpret the sanskrit texts correctly for anyone. Besides most of the so-called hindus are not interested in knowing their religion. for them roti kapda aur makaan is all that they want. furthermore the contents of the sanskrit texts are too complicated, you need to exercise your brain (which harldy any common indian would love to) taking it through an intellectual gymnasium. for any text/scripture to appeal, it has to be simple, translated in a language familiar to you. hence the bible, which is translated in almost every language of the world, has impacted the global population. nevertheless, the contents of the bible, especially the new testament, are very simple to understand. whereas when it comes to sanskrit texts, gone are the likes of chinmayananda et al who can give a captivating discourse on gita to a large[COLOR=#000000 !important]audience[/COLOR]. the current indian population does not want philosophy. they want instant miracles. hence a benny hinn could draw a large crowd in india than a vivekananda could in US.

A proselyte's half hearted attempt at innovation.

For Hindus roti, kapda aur makan are daily concerns as it is for every one in the world while religion is no religion but a way of life. They live the Ramayana every day in its essence. They do not go to a pulpit looking for a lecture on pardon of sins. Sanskrit texts have been adequately translated and every religious text is available today in India's all languages. I do not understand where the member lives. Philosophy needs exercise of brain whether it is Hindu philosophy or Christian philosophy and so it is not for the Aam Aadmi. The New Testament in Tamil is a joke. Its weird language style like "என்னிடம் ஒப்புக்கொடு...., பரமண்டலங்களிலிருக்கின்ற எங்கள் பிதாவே...." etc., are far away from the ordinary man. I am put off by the archaic language and syntax of the New Testament in Tamil and invariably go to the English version to understand what is said. This is not to put down the Bible itself for it is not for me to do anything like that. I limit my comments to only the language and syntax of New Testament and Old Testament. The colonising Europeans printed millions of copies of Bible and distributed them. So there is nothing great to celebrate about Bible being in all languages of the world-it was after all financed by illegal means. The colonising Europeans wanted minimum trouble from the slaves and hence wanted to organize them by rallying them under a common theme subservient to them and their interests. Religion came handy. They spent the ill-gotten money by printing the Bible. It is in a way the equivalent of the Red Book of Mao's cultural brigades who went about destroying everything in China to rebuild a new revolutionary heaven on earth. Instant miracles are another big joke. The lame walking upto the stage in a prayer meeting brings smile on my face. I smile at the sheer audacity of the whole drama whether it is benny inn or my school days classmate Brother Irudayaraj.

Like soft porn sells well soft proselytization too sells well in India.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

there is difference in meaning of secularism in western countries which means separation of stae and religion and India it conveys state s tolerate and accepts religeous practices of other religions in addition of hindu.

some of the religions in india , muslim, christianity are my way or highway type . activities of many christian missionaries and muslim clerics are

mostly unacceptable . some hindu outfits ,communities are also guilty of excesses against their low caste groups and preachers or other religions
there are two alternatives .
be a hindu state and make it the state religion and be like islamic nations and neglect others.

alternatively separate the state from religion . the latter may not be acceptable to the majority hindus

emperor akbar creates a new religion incorporating islam and hinduism without many takers

the view that old texts should be translated or modified is not welcome . those who are keen can learn sanskrit and study

others can shed the religeous baggage and live a life free of religion and hatred towards other human beings of different religions

Pretty good posting except for one sentence which needs slight modification:

be a hindu state and make it the state religion and be like islamic nations and neglect others.

change it to: be a hindu state and make it the state religion and unlike islamic nations which neglect others, show that a hindu state, by its very name, automatically implies accepting others with open arms.

Note that, by and large, as long as there is no attempt at overt conversions, there has always been cordial and hospitable relations with every others except the so-called religion of peace which really needs to change its mindset. Conversion as a matter of personal choice is okay. And to stop dalits and other depressed classes from flipping over by the lure of money, there is an imperative need for NGOs to get involved.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

I hope members are aware of the recent supreme court judgment on RTE act.


Link to News below:


Minority institutions exempt, but Right To Education Act binding on pvt schools, says SC - The Times of India

The Supreme court basically exempted minority (non-hindu) schools from the draconian RTE act even if they are aided and funded by tax-payer's money.

On the other hand, every non-minority (hindu) school has to follow the law even if they are unaided.


How can a country that passes such blatant communal laws be deemed secular? The provisions of RTE act provide much ammunition for govt interference in every aspect of running an educational institution that it will completely choke non-minority (hindu) private educational enterprise.



Indian govt, the current dispensation, is extremely communal and anti-hindu. No wonder, a high degree of polarization is visible in this election.

 

[tks]

I hope members are aware of the recent supreme court judgment on RTE act.


Link to News below:


Minority institutions exempt, but Right To Education Act binding on pvt schools, says SC - The Times of India

The Supreme court basically exempted minority (non-hindu) schools from the draconian RTE act even if they are aided and funded by tax-payer's money.

On the other hand, every non-minority (hindu) school has to follow the law even if they are unaided.


How can a country that passes such blatant communal laws be deemed secular? The provisions of RTE act provide much ammunition for govt interference in every aspect of running an educational institution that it will completely choke non-minority (hindu) private educational enterprise.



Indian govt, the current dispensation, is extremely communal and anti-hindu. No wonder, a high degree of polarization is visible in this election.

Hi KB -

Does Supreme Court in India basically create new ways of interpreting a law basically becoming activist in essentially creating new rules?

What compels a Supreme Court justice to do this since they are not bound by anyone and do not have to win an election

Perhaps my knowledge of how things work in India needs updating ...

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Hi KB -



Does Supreme Court in India basically create new ways of interpreting a law basically becoming activist in essentially creating new rules?


What compels a Supreme Court justice to do this since they are not bound by anyone and do not have to win an election



Perhaps my knowledge of how things work in India needs updating ...

Dear TKS,


Please read the full report on this case when you have time, a little long but will enlighten you on where different parties on this matter stand.


Here is the link: Pramati Educational & Cultural ... vs Union Of India & Ors on 6 May, 2014


An excerpt:

Mr. Parasaran next submitted that minority institutions referred to in Article 30 of the Constitution have been excluded from the purview of clause (5) of Article 15 of the Constitution because the Constitution has given a special status to minority institutions. He submitted that in the case of Ashoka Kumar Thakur v. Union of India (supra), this Court has held that exclusion of minority educational institutions from clause (5) of Article 15 of the Constitution is not violative of Article 14 of the Constitution as the minority educational institutions, by themselves, are a separate class and their rights are protected by other constitutional provisions. He submitted that the argument that clause (5) of Article 15 of the Constitution is violative of equality clause in Article 14 of the Constitution is therefore misconceived.

Please note that Mohan Parasaran is Solicitor General, appeared for the Union of India. Thus you see, the government of India itself supports excluding minority institutions from the law. That is the catch.


The Supreme Court did not go out of the way to interpret the law to be non-applicable to minority in this case. It merely agreed with the Govt.


You have a situation where the Govt creates a law, where it allows wide powers to interfere in running of an educational institution, and then selectively applies to non-minority (read hindu) schools.


You won't find self-styled liberas and seculars commenting against such blatant communalism. Instead they will harp on someone wearing a tilak or sporting a saffron robe.


A Modi-led govt my do away with such discriminatory laws and hence intense pre-emptive pressure and propaganda against him painting him as a communal monster.

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

Dear Kuvs,

I started my detail study of Sanskrit Bhagavata Purana two days ago..reading the Sanskrit text and writing down each stanza..today I was reading a stanza which in my opinion was very prejudiced.

It was praising the glory of hearing the Bhagavata Purana and the stanza mentioned that one who has never heard the Bhagavata Purana in his life is a fool who leads a life like a Chandala and a donkey..nothing but a living corpse and fie upon such persons who only brought upon pain to their mothers during delivery.


I was what??? What is the need to be so harsh and be anti Chandala here? and why speak ill of a donkey too? Isnt the same Brahman in all living beings..Bhagavad Geeta says one who has Samadarshinah sees the same Atma in all ..Chandala included but here Bhagavata Purana was totally calling a Chandala a living corpse!LOL

Now this kind of text will make any person think twice of being a Hindu.

I was totally not happy with this stanza that I altered it and wrote it as "one who has not heard Bhagavata Purana leads a life like an inert object sans consciousness" ..so that the message is got across without the need to target any caste/community or animal.

A friend of mine told me that I have committed a great sin by rephrasing a stanza from Bhagavata Puran cos he was saying Chandala and donkey here is like a Vritti and not a physical Chandala or Donkey but I told him religious text should be presentable with polite words and not harsh sounding whatever the hidden meaning might be if we want Hindus to not convert. Sin or no sin I feel some text need to be rephrased.

Dear Renuka,

There are many Brahmins in this forum who have not read the Bhagavata Purana. Are they all Chandalas/fools/donkeys/corpses as per the pronouncements of that Text?

You said you are not happy on reading this. An Iyengar like me feels ashamed and disgraced to be an Iyengar when a Book which my fellow Iyengars revere and venerate stoops down to such level as condemning whoever does not read it. For that matter many Iyengars themselves have not read the Bhagavata Purana.

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

There is a comical allegory that shows the biases inherent in such posts


Now first the joke:


A police officer sees a drunken man intently searching the ground near a lamppost and asks him the goal of his quest. The inebriate replies that he is looking for his car keys, and the officer helps for a few minutes without success then he asks whether the man is certain that he dropped the keys near the lamppost.


“No,” is the reply, “I lost the keys somewhere across the street.” “Why look here?” asks the surprised and irritated officer. “The light is much better here,” the intoxicated man responds with aplomb.


Ordinary 'relatively uneducated' Hindu who is exposed to the epics like Ramayana (regardless of Tulsi or Kamba Ramayana or Valmiki ) has basic knowledge of Dharma and conducts life based on the teachings implied in these epics. They may not be scholars but they do not need a book like bible to save them.


They dont need to go and understand truth with a missionary who in large part are adharmic and intolerant (and certainly non-accepting of other religions). Going to them will be like looking for a key because light is there..

Dear TKS,

I could only pity your vitriolic attack on me.

One of my non-brahmin friend raised the following queries:

When lord krishna can flirt with numerous gopika stris, what is wrong if our men flirt with their girlfriends?

when lord siva can have a saraswati as his consort, a ganga on his head and kali for whatsoever, why not our young men also have likewise?

when murugan can marry two wives, why not our youth?

And he made many more queries which i choose not to reflect here in this forum.

My response to him was that they are Lords and they did it in a spiritual realm and that they have the authority to do whatsoever, but my response was not acceptable to him.

what kind of dharma are our legends and epics imparting? what is the precedent/example set by our legendary heroes/heroines?

 

[tks]

Dear TKS,

I could only pity your vitriolic attack on me.

One of my non-brahmin friend raised the following queries:

When lord krishna can flirt with numerous gopika stris, what is wrong if our men flirt with their girlfriends?

when lord siva can have a saraswati as his consort, a ganga on his head and kali for whatsoever, why not our young men also have likewise?

when murugan can marry two wives, why not our youth?

And he made many more queries which i choose not to reflect here in this forum.

My response to him was that they are Lords and they did it in a spiritual realm and that they have the authority to do whatsoever, but my response was not acceptable to him.

what kind of dharma are our legends and epics imparting? what is the precedent/example set by our legendary heroes/heroines?

Please re-read my post - there was no attack on you as a person...

I did critique the content of your post just like I am going to do about your response here as well.

In my mind this post of yours is a self serving post with an implied agenda behind.

Personally I do not care what anyone feels entitled to call themselves. Here you are one more human being posting using a nick.

The only thing that matters is the attitude depicted by a person's post. You can be Christian, call your Brahmin, call yourself non-Brahmin, or non-Hindu - to me all these labels are irrelevant.

I have friends who follow all major religions who have exemplary character.

Going by those standards, your post here is disingenuous at best and lacks integrity at worst.

I have nothing more to say to you

 

[biswa]

Your post cannot be more true.

Most Hindus do not know what the Vedas, Upanishads, Brahmanas, Gita etc contain. Mainly bcoz the language is Sanskrit, which is no longer spoken but exists only in literature. There are few who can interpret the sanskrit texts correctly for anyone. Besides most of the so-called hindus are not interested in knowing their religion. for them roti kapda aur makaan is all that they want. furthermore the contents of the sanskrit texts are too complicated, you need to exercise your brain (which harldy any common indian would love to) taking it through an intellectual gymnasium. for any text/scripture to appeal, it has to be simple, translated in a language familiar to you. hence the bible, which is translated in almost every language of the world, has impacted the global population. nevertheless, the contents of the bible, especially the new testament, are very simple to understand. whereas when it comes to sanskrit texts, gone are the likes of chinmayananda et al who can give a captivating discourse on gita to a large audience. the current indian population does not want philosophy. they want instant miracles. hence a benny hinn could draw a large crowd in india than a vivekananda could in US.

Oh there you go, bible thumping from the resident Christian missionary in the forum. Which Englishman speaks the language of the King James bible you think? How exactly has Bible improved the lives of the global population? How has most of Europe turned atheist? Do you know of all the abuses done by the Catholic church and the Spanish missionaries in America? Always such a one-sided view from you.

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

Please re-read my post - there was no attack on you as a person...

..........I have nothing more to say to you

your post exposes your naivete and lack of understanding.

You seem to have grossly mis-interpreted my post and hence have made irrelevent, off-tangent remarks, you have hastily jumped to conclusions invariably incorrect. You have not directly responded to my queries, coz you cannot. thanks for conceding defeat. you have not said anything at all, let alone more to say.

religions don't build character be it hinduism or christianity or whatever.

absolutely no point getting hyper-emotional. apply some thought, introspect and reform your character and aspire to set a good example and precedent for others to follow than desperately defend some faith system or offend an individual.

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

Oh there you go, bible thumping from the resident Christian missionary in the forum. Which Englishman speaks the language of the King James bible you think? How exactly has Bible improved the lives of the global population? How has most of Europe turned atheist? Do you know of all the abuses done by the Catholic church and the Spanish missionaries in America? Always such a one-sided view from you.

There are numerous versions of the english translation of the bible, from the ancient to the simplest to reach out to all levels of wisdom. i know more than the atrocities of the catholic church or spanish missionaries. but the subject of discussion is remotely associated with that.

cease pointing fingers at others, which benefits you the least and do some introspection.

when a ziegenbaulg can take pains to travel all the way from denmark, learn classical tamil and translate bible into tamil, when a william carey suffer numerous hardships in a foreign land and translate bible into bengali amidst persection and tribulation, what have we done to translate vedas, upanishads, brahmanas etc into all indian languages in a very simple style to reach to the masses so that a common indian could appreciate the indian scriptures.

the christians have countless bible colleges in india and the muslims have more number of arabic schools in india. but do we have at least half their number of veda patasalas? one of my relatives had to travel 1000s of miles and stay away from family for months together to study the vedas etc and had to undergo numerous hardships to qualify to be a sastri in srirangam temple.


how many brahmins know the meaning/interpretation of the sanskrit mantras, slokas, etc which we chant/recite everyday. we were conditioned not to question or query the meaning/interpretation and just chant/recite mechanically.

 

[vignesh2014]

Secular India means instead of giving equal importance to all religions or giving more importance to some religion, it is better to emphasize the concept of Gods consciousness in everybody and the eternal relationship each individual is having with god.Like that it will be more secular than telling about just religious tolerance or co-existing with others.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Dear TKS,

I could only pity your vitriolic attack on me.

One of my non-brahmin friend raised the following queries:

When lord krishna can flirt with numerous gopika stris, what is wrong if our men flirt with their girlfriends?

when lord siva can have a saraswati as his consort, a ganga on his head and kali for whatsoever, why not our young men also have likewise?

when murugan can marry two wives, why not our youth?

And he made many more queries which i choose not to reflect here in this forum.

My response to him was that they are Lords and they did it in a spiritual realm and that they have the authority to do whatsoever, but my response was not acceptable to him.

what kind of dharma are our legends and epics imparting? what is the precedent/example set by our legendary heroes/heroines?

Lord Shiva is portrayed as God and not human being or avatar like Krishna. Therefore, your criticism of Lord Shiva is uncalled for and in bad taste.

However, your comments confirm the point that 'converts(!)' are more serious and loyal to the embraced religion than 'originals'. Keep it up.

 

[Vaagmi]

Lord Shiva is portrayed as God and not human being or avatar like Krishna. Therefore, your criticism of Lord Shiva is uncalled for and in bad taste.

However, your comments confirm the point that 'converts(!)' are more serious and loyal to the embraced religion than 'originals'. Keep it up.

Chandruji,

1. Could you throw some light on the meaning of the deity that sit in the sanctum of Siva temples?
2. could you tell us what you have understood of Avatars?

Just curious.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Chandruji,

1. Could you throw some light on the meaning of the deity that sit in the sanctum of Siva temples?
2. could you tell us what you have understood of Avatars?

Just curious.

As far as Saivism is concerned, there is no idol worship. The figures, statues, pictures etc. shown or depicted in the Temples may be an extended form of imagination.

Regarding Avatars, they were ordinary human beings, born to biological parents. They possessed the same qualities like other human beings.

In this connection, could you please let me know Sir, as how may wives your Lord Krishna has? I thought it was three. However, recently, I attended a religious discourse by a Shastrigal. The topic was 'Periava Magimai'. He said Krishna had 11048 wives but remained as a bachelor. Is it not interesting?

 

[Vaagmi]

Chandruji,

As far as Saivism is concerned, there is no idol worship. The figures, statues, pictures etc. shown or depicted in the Temples may be an extended form of imagination.

This does not answer my question no.1.

Regarding Avatars, they were ordinary human beings, born to biological parents. They possessed the same qualities like other human beings.

You are born to biological parents and so you are an "ordinary human being". By your logic you are an avatar too? Thanks for throwing light on your understanding of avatars.

In this connection, could you please let me know Sir, as how may wives your Lord Krishna has? I thought it was three. However, recently, I attended a religious discourse by a Shastrigal. The topic was 'Periava Magimai'. He said Krishna had 11048 wives but remained as a bachelor. Is it not interesting?

It appears you are envy of Lord Krishna. From today you may also make it a mission to acquire at least one wife more than Lord Krishna so that you dislodge him from Lordship and you become one. LOL. And by the way, why that shastrigal deviated from "Periyava" and chased wives of Krishna for counting them? May be a naughty shastrigal. Beware. Go alone to his lectures.

 

[renuka]

As far as Saivism is concerned, there is no idol worship. The figures, statues, pictures etc. shown or depicted in the Temples may be an extended form of imagination.

Regarding Avatars, they were ordinary human beings, born to biological parents. They possessed the same qualities like other human beings.

In this connection, could you please let me know Sir, as how may wives your Lord Krishna has? I thought it was three. However, recently, I attended a religious discourse by a Shastrigal. The topic was 'Periava Magimai'. He said Krishna had 11048 wives but remained as a bachelor. Is it not interesting?

Dear Chandru Ji,

An avatar is not like an ordinary human.

There embryo of an ordinary mortal is Jalodakasayi(enveloped in watery material) where else the embryo of an Avatar Kshirodakasayi ( enveloped with white milk of holiness)


When Avatar is born He surely behaves like a human being outwardly cos human have to be humans but the difference is they are not bound by Gunas like us.

So that is the deluding factor that we mistake them to be like us and do not realize when Divinity stands in front of our eyes.

Now coming to the explanation of the 16,008 wives there is another explanation for this:

Simple Mathematics:


The Hrudaya Chakra is known as the 8 petaled Lotus and the Sahasrara Chakra is known as the 1000 petaled Lotus.

Now Krishna is described to be the Lord(Pathi) of these 8 petals.

Next is the Sahasrara Chakra that has 1000 petals and each petal has 16 Kalas.

Lord Krishna presides over these 1000 petals and its 16 Kalas.

1000 x 16 = 16000


1600(from Sahasrara Chakra) + 8(from Hrudaya Chakra) =16008.

This somehow got translated as 16008 wives!


Next time when you see that Shastrigal try asking him this and let us know his answer.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Dear Chandru Ji,

An avatar is not like an ordinary human.

There embryo of an ordinary mortal is Jalodakasayi(enveloped in watery material) where else the embryo of an Avatar Kshirodakasayi ( enveloped with white milk of holiness)


When Avatar is born He surely behaves like a human being outwardly cos human have to be humans but the difference is they are not bound by Gunas like us.

So that is the deluding factor that we mistake them to be like us and do not realize when Divinity stands in front of our eyes.

Now coming to the explanation of the 16,008 wives there is another explanation for this:

Simple Mathematics:


The Hrudaya Chakra is known as the 8 petaled Lotus and the Sahasrara Chakra is known as the 1000 petaled Lotus.

Now Krishna is described to be the Lord(Pathi) of these 8 petals.

Next is the Sahasrara Chakra that has 1000 petals and each petal has 16 Kalas.

Lord Krishna presides over these 1000 petals and its 16 Kalas.

1000 x 16 = 16000


1600(from Sahasrara Chakra) + 8(from Hrudaya Chakra) =16008.

This somehow got translated as 16008 wives!


Next time when you see that Shastrigal try asking him this and let us know his answer.

I think your explanation of Krishna's Polygamy will not be accepted by every one in Hindu fold. These explanations may be suitable for those who belong to Krishna cult. What Krishna did during his days, especially matters related to marriage playing with girls, are not accepted and approved in modern days both by Hinduism and civilized society.

Your justifying and glorifying actions, which are illegal now, is unfortunate.

What do you mean by your number? Are they just ornaments or wives? Then what about Bama, Radha and Rukmini. Were they human beings or they were also ornaments.

Any how, how many wives Krishna actually had.

 

[Vaagmi]

(1) I think your explanation of Krishna's Polygamy will not be accepted by every one in Hindu fold. These explanations may be suitable for those who belong to Krishna cult. What Krishna did during his days, especially matters related to marriage playing with girls, are not accepted and approved in modern days both by Hinduism and civilized society.

(2)Your justifying and glorifying actions, which are illegal now, is unfortunate.

(3)What do you mean by your number? Are they just ornaments or wives? Then what about Bama, Radha and Rukmini. Were they human beings or they were also ornaments.

(4)Any how, how many wives Krishna actually had.

Chandruji,

For convenience I have given numbers.

1. which part of Hindu society is really civilized and which part is not civilized? Kallaanaalum kanavan pullaanaalum purushan days are gone. Those who believe in that are not civilized these days. Society has moved so fast that couples meet regularly on week-ends at some really civilized society clubs, where after a few stiff drinks ladies just go and just pick up a car key at random from all the car keys of members deposited in a box to spend the rest of the evening and night with the owner of that car key. If you ask this society which claims to be far civilized, the answer will be "poor Krishna. He did not have cars and clubs in his days".

2. Renukaji will reply to this.

3. Please read point no.1 again to understand where we are now standing.

4. He had a million wives though he did not intend to make your task difficult. You can still try to become the Lord. LOL.

 

[vgane]

Dear Chandru,

Pl read this: Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 10 Chapter 69

Just like Arjuna whose relationship with Krishna is one of friendship, similarly the 16, 108 queens of Krishna had conjugal relationship with Krishna. Since, Krishna is the supreme personality of godhead, he can maintain an unlimited number of spirit souls as wives. In fact, 5000 years back when he married the 16, 108 wives, he provided each and everyone with a palace and other necessities. Moreover, he expanded himself into 16, 108 in order to assoicate with the 16, 108 queens. It is not that, the queens had to wait for Krishna so many days as somebody wrongly commented projecting one's own conception of a limited person on Krishna who is God.

The sage Narada was astonished about the lila of Krishna.

Srimad Bhagavatam 10.69 Summary

This chapter relates how Narada Muni was amazed to see the household pastimes of Lord Sri Krsna, and how he offered prayers to the Lord.

After killing the demon Naraka, Lord Krsna had simultaneously married sixteen thousand maidens, and sage Narada wanted to observe the Lord's diverse activities in this unique family situation. Thus he went to Dvaraka. Narada entered one of the sixteen thousand palaces and saw Goddess Rukmini personally rendering menial service to Sri Krsna, despite her being in the company of thousands of maidservants. As soon as Lord Krsna noticed Narada, He got up from His bed, offered obeisances to the sage and seated him on His own seat. Then the Lord bathed Narada's feet and sprinkled the water on His own head. Such was the exemplary behavior of the Lord.

After conversing with the Lord for a short while, Narada went to another of His palaces, where the sage saw Sri Krsna playing at dice with His queen and Uddhava. Going from there to another palace, he found Lord Krsna coddling His infant children. In another palace he saw Him preparing to take a bath; in another, performing fire sacrifices, in another, feeding brahmanas; and in another, eating the remnants left by brahmanas. In one palace the Lord was performing noontime rituals; in another, quietly chanting the Gayatri mantra; in another, sleeping on His bed; in another, consulting with His ministers; and in yet another, playing in the water with His female companions. Somewhere the Lord was giving charity to brahmanas, in another place He was joking and laughing with His consort, in yet another place He was meditating on the Supersoul, somewhere He was serving His spiritual masters, in another place He was arranging for the marriages of His sons and daughters, somewhere else He was going out to hunt animals, and elsewhere He was moving about in disguise to find out what the citizens were thinking.

Having seen all this, Narada addressed Lord Krsna: "Only because I have served Your lotus feet can I understand these varieties of Your Yogamaya potency, which ordinary living beings bewildered by illusion cannot begin to perceive. Thus I am most fortunate, and I simply desire to travel all over the three worlds chanting the glories of Your pastimes, which purify all the worlds."

 

[tks]

Dear Chandru,

Pl read this: Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 10 Chapter 69

Just like Arjuna whose relationship with Krishna is one of friendship, similarly the 16, 108 queens of Krishna had conjugal relationship with Krishna. Since, Krishna is the supreme personality of godhead, he can maintain an unlimited number of spirit souls as wives. In fact, 5000 years back when he married the 16, 108 wives, he provided each and everyone with a palace and other necessities. Moreover, he expanded himself into 16, 108 in order to assoicate with the 16, 108 queens. It is not that, the queens had to wait for Krishna so many days as somebody wrongly commented projecting one's own conception of a limited person on Krishna who is God.

The sage Narada was astonished about the lila of Krishna.

Srimad Bhagavatam 10.69 Summary

This chapter relates how Narada Muni was amazed to see the household pastimes of Lord Sri Krsna, and how he offered prayers to the Lord.

After killing the demon Naraka, Lord Krsna had simultaneously married sixteen thousand maidens, and sage Narada wanted to observe the Lord's diverse activities in this unique family situation. Thus he went to Dvaraka. Narada entered one of the sixteen thousand palaces and saw Goddess Rukmini personally rendering menial service to Sri Krsna, despite her being in the company of thousands of maidservants. As soon as Lord Krsna noticed Narada, He got up from His bed, offered obeisances to the sage and seated him on His own seat. Then the Lord bathed Narada's feet and sprinkled the water on His own head. Such was the exemplary behavior of the Lord.

After conversing with the Lord for a short while, Narada went to another of His palaces, where the sage saw Sri Krsna playing at dice with His queen and Uddhava. Going from there to another palace, he found Lord Krsna coddling His infant children. In another palace he saw Him preparing to take a bath; in another, performing fire sacrifices, in another, feeding brahmanas; and in another, eating the remnants left by brahmanas. In one palace the Lord was performing noontime rituals; in another, quietly chanting the Gayatri mantra; in another, sleeping on His bed; in another, consulting with His ministers; and in yet another, playing in the water with His female companions. Somewhere the Lord was giving charity to brahmanas, in another place He was joking and laughing with His consort, in yet another place He was meditating on the Supersoul, somewhere He was serving His spiritual masters, in another place He was arranging for the marriages of His sons and daughters, somewhere else He was going out to hunt animals, and elsewhere He was moving about in disguise to find out what the citizens were thinking.

Having seen all this, Narada addressed Lord Krsna: "Only because I have served Your lotus feet can I understand these varieties of Your Yogamaya potency, which ordinary living beings bewildered by illusion cannot begin to perceive. Thus I am most fortunate, and I simply desire to travel all over the three worlds chanting the glories of Your pastimes, which purify all the worlds."

The comments and questions about Sri Krishna posed by a few are flippant in nature and need not be dignified by a response.
The details presented in Bhagavatham is irrelevant for someone whose attitude is one of mockery arising out of ignorance in one case and mockery arising out of an agenda in the case of another.

Sri Vaagmi's response is more appropriate in my view if there is even a need for a response.

 

[biswa]

Ok, looks like I may find some agreement with you in that Hinduism is not the best organized religion. But the answer is not Christianity, which you seem to have taken up. All religions are the same, man-made theories (and associated social orders) which are imperfect models of the truth.

You seem to prefer the evangelization model of Abrahamic religions. Why, may I ask? Hinduism is not an evangelical religion. A person's faith should be personal. It should be not be fostered on him or her by sword or bribery (as has been historically done by Islam and Christianity).

There are numerous versions of the english translation of the bible, from the ancient to the simplest to reach out to all levels of wisdom. i know more than the atrocities of the catholic church or spanish missionaries. but the subject of discussion is remotely associated with that.

cease pointing fingers at others, which benefits you the least and do some introspection.

when a ziegenbaulg can take pains to travel all the way from denmark, learn classical tamil and translate bible into tamil, when a william carey suffer numerous hardships in a foreign land and translate bible into bengali amidst persection and tribulation, what have we done to translate vedas, upanishads, brahmanas etc into all indian languages in a very simple style to reach to the masses so that a common indian could appreciate the indian scriptures.

the christians have countless bible colleges in india and the muslims have more number of arabic schools in india. but do we have at least half their number of veda patasalas? one of my relatives had to travel 1000s of miles and stay away from family for months together to study the vedas etc and had to undergo numerous hardships to qualify to be a sastri in srirangam temple.


how many brahmins know the meaning/interpretation of the sanskrit mantras, slokas, etc which we chant/recite everyday. we were conditioned not to question or query the meaning/interpretation and just chant/recite mechanically.