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[renuka]

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Renukaji,



Shows how poor your understanding of vaishnavism is. LOL.

Its becos the Vaishnava mind is too narrow to let anyone in!LOL


The longest conversation I have ever had with an ISCKONite is just 2 minutes..more than that its not possible..they are like some Abrahamic religion followers who says "my god is better than your god!"

Ok next is a Non ISCKONite Vaishnava..longest conversation ever was just 5 minutes..it was with an Iyengar priest cos he was arguing with me why I was hearing Chidananda Roopah Shivoham Shivoham when he called me and than he started his sermon!LOL

After 5 minutes I put the phone down and told him I am busy.

So Vaagmi ji..this is the truth..the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Its becos the Vaishnava mind is too narrow to let anyone in!LOL


The longest conversation I have ever had with an ISCKONite is just 2 minutes..more than that its not possible..they are like some Abrahamic religion followers who says "my god is better than your god!"

Ok next is a Non ISCKONite Vaishnava..longest conversation ever was just 5 minutes..it was with an Iyengar priest cos he was arguing with me why I was hearing Chidananda Roopah Shivoham Shivoham when he called me and than he started his sermon!LOL

After 5 minutes I put the phone down and told him I am busy.

So Vaagmi ji..this is the truth..the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

Saivism and Vaishnavism have different identities.

Though Vaishnavites follow their ideology as per norms, Saivites, especially Smarthas, have been made more liberal on account of rise in the stature of Sankara Mutts, who are primarily talking about Vaishnavite related subjects. Most of the religious practitioners from Iyer community give importance to only Vaishnavite works, though sporting Vibhudhi. Of late, majority of Bhagavathas are from Iyer community, praising Rama and Krishna. Probably, this is fetching more money.

The Sankara Mutts, mostly dominated by Smarthas, are generally not speaking about the importance of Saivism, but always talk of about Vaishnavite works Ramanayana, Mahabhratha, Gita, Tiruppavai etc. Smartha Brahmins are supposed to give importance to Tiruvembhavai during the month of Marghazhi, which talks about Lord Shiva. How many are actually doing?

Probably, the reason is majority of Saivite works in Tamil were from NBs.

Kanchi Paramacharya was primarily responsible for the construction of Srirangam Rajagopuram. Due to his popularity, he was able to collect necessary sum and complete the work and the expenses for couple of tiers are met by non-Hindus. His popularity was cleverly utilised by the then Jeer (Azhagiyasinger - I think) to complete the mission.

These actions of Sankara Mutts and other liberal minded Smarthas make the Vaishnavites think they are superior and become more rigid and exclusive. Nothing else.

Even some members in this forum from Iyer community are more Vaishnavite in following than Saivites. One of the famous Carnatic Music composers Thiagaraja is a perfect example of Smartha's confused state of mind. Though born in a Saivite Brahmin family, majority of his works are related to Rama.

There is nothing wrong in Vaishnavites following their principles scrupulously but the importance given by Saivites, more particularly Smarthas, is quite unnecessary.

 

[sarang]

For a start let us drop western concept of ' ism' and use bharateeya words. Vaishnavam, shavam shaktam, bauddham etc.

 

[renuka]

Saivism and Vaishnavism have different identities.

Though Vaishnavites follow their ideology as per norms, Saivites, especially Smarthas, have been made more liberal on account of rise in the stature of Sankara Mutts, who are primarily talking about Vaishnavite related subjects. Most of the religious practitioners from Iyer community give importance to only Vaishnavite works, though sporting Vibhudhi. Of late, majority of Bhagavathas are from Iyer community, praising Rama and Krishna. Probably, this is fetching more money.

The Sankara Mutts, mostly dominated by Smarthas, are generally not speaking about the importance of Saivism, but always talk of about Vaishnavite works Ramanayana, Mahabhratha, Gita, Tiruppavai etc. Smartha Brahmins are supposed to give importance to Tiruvembhavai during the month of Marghazhi, which talks about Lord Shiva. How many are actually doing?

Probably, the reason is majority of Saivite works in Tamil were from NBs.

Kanchi Paramacharya was primarily responsible for the construction of Srirangam Rajagopuram. Due to his popularity, he was able to collect necessary sum and complete the work and the expenses for couple of tiers are met by non-Hindus. His popularity was cleverly utilised by the then Jeer (Azhagiyasinger - I think) to complete the mission.

These actions of Sankara Mutts and other liberal minded Smarthas make the Vaishnavites think they are superior and become more rigid and exclusive. Nothing else.

Even some members in this forum from Iyer community are more Vaishnavite in following than Saivites. One of the famous Carnatic Music composers Thiagaraja is a perfect example of Smartha's confused state of mind. Though born in a Saivite Brahmin family, majority of his works are related to Rama.

There is nothing wrong in Vaishnavites following their principles scrupulously but the importance given by Saivites, more particularly Smarthas, is quite unnecessary.

I have no problem with any form of divinity ....

 

[renuka]

For a start let us drop western concept of ' ism' and use bharateeya words. Vaishnavam, shavam shaktam, bauddham etc.

Sarang ji..but we still writing in English yaar..Bhavan Kim Samskrite Na Likhati?

 

[Naina_Marbus]

I have no problem with any form of divinity ..God is One..nut cases call Him by many names!LOL

Qualifies as hate speech, especially the second half

 

[biswa]

if you cannot appreciate iskcon do not call any evangelization, western or whatsoever, foul.

I have seen Iskconites pull the ratha in San Francisco, and they seem seriously high on something. Dont tell me it is just bhakti.

I will call evangelism of any kind foul, a hundred times. Saying that one's beliefs is superior to others is just a sign of arrogance and ignorance. Right now you said Krishna is the supreme Godhead. Earlier you said Jesus is the supreme savior. You beliefs dont really make much sense, or at least are very confusing to the average Hindu.

You seem to be saying that only Vaishnavism (your previous life) and Christianity (your current life) are the only sources of truth, everything else is bunk. This is highly delusional, at best.

 

[renuka]

Qualifies as hate speech, especially the second half

Why?? There is no hatred in my words..arent we all nutcases... me included??LOL

Naina ji..hatred is something I hardly know about..really..I dont really hate anything..hatred is a powerful form of emotions that eats into our energy storage ..it weakens the mind..so you can be assured that even though I am point blank in my words..I dont subscribe or prescribe hatred for myself or anyone else.

BTW I noted the second half of my post about nut case got edited by Moderator..so you want to also edit my quoted portion..BTW dont take the nutcase word literally..nutcase means inability to perceive..something we all humans suffer from... we all called the one and only Brahman in many names and created many religions and confusion.

So if you read my post in that sense...you can understand it better.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

Each one has his / her own way of praying the Almighty. What is wrong if the Almighty is depicted in many ways?

This is to enable persons to choose whatever form they like and believe in that mighty force. Many stories are made

about each deity and believed by the bhakthas. We can not brand them as 'nut cases' because nut = :loco:

and :loco: =

Image courtesy: Google images.

 

[renuka]

Dear RR ji,

What to do...I am also a nut case so my eyes could only see fellow nutcases!LOL

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

I have seen Iskconites pull the ratha in San Francisco, and they seem seriously high on something. Dont tell me it is just bhakti.

I will call evangelism of any kind foul, a hundred times. Saying that one's beliefs is superior to others is just a sign of arrogance and ignorance. Right now you said Krishna is the supreme Godhead. Earlier you said Jesus is the supreme savior. You beliefs dont really make much sense, or at least are very confusing to the average Hindu.

You seem to be saying that only Vaishnavism (your previous life) and Christianity (your current life) are the only sources of truth, everything else is bunk. This is highly delusional, at best.

You seem to be suffering from comprehension-crisis, exposing your naivete, lack of wisdom et al. you repeat the error of jumping-to-invariably-inappropriate-conclusions, and like a parrot repeatedly utter the same. conclusively you are not a brahmin in spirit or soul although you may have been born in a so-called brahmin family. A brahmin does not reject anything hastily as much as he does not accept anything hurriedly unless researching a precept/concept and convinced of its truth/authenticity/veracity.

you need not be a christian to quote from the bible as much as you need not be a hindu to quote from vedas/upanishads/gita etc. i have met foreigners whose knowledge and understanding of hindu scriptures is awesome and amazing than millions of hindus, yet they follow their parental religion.

if you call yourselves a hindu, ask your own selves if you are a hindu by conviction (having researched into the hindu sacred texts and being convinced that hinduism is the appropriate religion to follow) or by compulsion (being imposed by parents, conditioned in mind to accept, appreciate and follow regardless of your conviction)? the one who is deluded is you not I.

read my earlier posts and at least 'try' to understand. Neither vaishnavism was my past (I was not being 100% vaishnavite to be honest) nor christianity my current (although i hold the Lord Jesus in my highest esteem). qouting what others say does not mean you subscribe to it. although i am not a disciple of prabhupadadas, i cannot help appreciating his successful elimination of hippy movement and changing all the hippies to a better life. could you reform a hippy if you come across one? i know you would dare not even accept this challenge. have you ever reformed at least one soul in your life?

introspect into yourself carefully and you will discover that you are more arrogant, ignorant, egoistic, dogmatic and stubborn than iskconiites in whatsoever faith system you hold dearly.

you mentioned "You beliefs dont really make much sense, or at least are very confusing to the average Hindu.". you have discriminated humans into average and above-average and below-average hindu thereby exposing your ignorance, naivete, hypocrisy and incompetency to discuss in this forum. hence my statements don't make sense to you. un-condition your mind, change your mentality and mindset, aspire to be a brahmin in spirit and soul, evolve into a better human being and then you will understand my beliefs. To make a start begin reading J. Krishnamurthy's books. read his booklet, "Truth is a Pathless Land". thats just beginning. quit repeating the same error of jumping to conclude that i am a follower of JK. JK is only to begin with.

do not take the trouble of counter-attacking and counter-arguing just for the sake attacking and arguing. in all probability i will care two hoots.

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

Why?? There is no hatred in my words..arent we all nutcases... me included??LOL

Naina ji..hatred is something I hardly know about..really..I dont really hate anything..hatred is a powerful form of emotions that eats into our energy storage ..it weakens the mind..so you can be assured that even though I am point blank in my words..I dont subscribe or prescribe hatred for myself or anyone else.

BTW I noted the second half of my post about nut case got edited by Moderator..so you want to also edit my quoted portion..BTW dont take the nutcase word literally..nutcase means inability to perceive..something we all humans suffer from... we all called the one and only Brahman in many names and created many religions and confusion.

So if you read my post in that sense...you can understand it better.

Hi Renuka,

When you call a spade a spade, you will receive only brickbats not Boquet.

 

[Vaagmi]

Renukaji,

Its becos the Vaishnava mind is too narrow to let anyone in!LOL

A vaishnava's mind is full of Srimannarayana and you as well as anyone else is already in it. He does not let you in because you are already there. It is unfortunate that you suffer from a tunnel vision of maya and unable to see the reality as it really is. Only you can help yourself.

The longest conversation I have ever had with an ISCKONite is just 2 minutes..more than that its not possible..they are like some Abrahamic religion followers who says "my god is better than your god!"

I met that ISCKONITE friend of you and he had the same thing to tell about you. After a conversation each one goes with his/her impressions. Yes, impressions only.

Ok next is a Non ISCKONite Vaishnava..longest conversation ever was just 5 minutes..it was with an Iyengar priest cos he was arguing with me why I was hearing Chidananda Roopah Shivoham Shivoham when he called me and than he started his sermon!LOL

More than a vaishnava, he was just a stupid priest. He should have left the chidanand...... alone. He should have understood that he was speaking with some one whose attention span for him was predetermined and limited. And what a medium to discuss metaphysics and God--a telephone!!

So Vaagmi ji..this is the truth..the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

It appears truth is revealing itself to you in a stream of episodes. There are many more to come. Please wait for them and then take a final view. Whatever contacts you have had with Vaishnavam is just nothing. Wait for it or go looking for it with an open mind. Or better be happy with just shivoham (it is not bad) and never venture out . Out there it is a noisy market place where good, original, fake and bad products are all well packed and sold. What matters there is just decibels and dollars. Many a time what you get is just fake or a counterfeit . That leaves a bad taste finally. Good luck. LOL.

 

[Vaagmi]

Biswaji,

Generally any monotheistic outlook (ie my God is better than your God) goes against the grain of Hinduism.

"My god is better than your God" is not monotheism. It is extremism." You go with your Gods(plural deliberate and not a typo) and I go with my God" is monotheism. If you do not have Gods and if you have just a God then you too are a monotheist perhaps with a different brand name!! LOL. So we have no dispute as we are birds of the same flock.

 

[Vaagmi]

Decades ago, prabhupada dasa, founder of iskcon landed in US shores with just a copy of bagwad gita. he found hippies ubiquitously. he met with them, preached the hare krishna maha mantra to them, advising them that the mantra could deliver them from whatever the cause of them turning hippies. in a few years hippies disappeared. long hairs turned tufts, bearded faces were cleanly shaven, rags turned saffron, the fingers that held drugs were holding beads, the lips that uttered abuses were chanting the mahamantra, the flesh that was stinking of sweat were emanating sandal fragrance, frowns turned smiles. call it cult or whatever, is not 'krishna is the supreme personality of godhead' far better than drowning in depression and drugs. if you cannot appreciate iskcon do not call any evangelization, western or whatsoever, foul.

MAGNANIMITY APPRECIATES ANYTHING THAT WOULD CHANGE A HUMAN BEING TO A BETTER PERSON.

Hippies were largely a crowd of searchers. They were fed up with the situation in US and Europe at that time because Governments were catching young (and brilliant) people and were sending them as cannon fodder to the jungles of East Asia. These hippies were people who were rebels who were on the look out for an alternative to becoming a Rambo or stopping a bullet and falling dead. I had a brilliant friend of me who became a hippie. Of course like any such movement/crowd it included a few dropout miserables too. Prabhupada had his role cut out for him and he succeeded. It is a different story with evangelization practised by the Abrahamic Religions. With Prabhupada there was no opiate on offer to enslave anyone (recall the opium wars of China), There was no "holy book in one hand and a sword in the other hand" kind of tricks (remember subjugation of Africa, the Boer wars, the crusades, Tippusultan's campaigns on the west coast of India etc.,). So the evangelization is not equal to ISCKON movement. Period. The false equivalence is too gross to hide. LOL. Only the converts are more militant than even the evangelists!! Tippu withdrew but left behind a trail of blood and destruction besides a few families of die-hard converts. LOL.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Renu,

Each one has his / her own way of praying the Almighty. What is wrong if the Almighty is depicted in many ways?

This is to enable persons to choose whatever form they like and believe in that mighty force. Many stories are made

about each deity and believed by the bhakthas. We can not brand them as 'nut cases' because nut = :loco:

and :loco: =

Image courtesy: Google images.

Dear RR,

It is perfectly okay as you say to depict almighty in many ways and pray to him. But to have several Almighties and pray to them each for a particular benefit (it is a tough bargain), praying to one almighty in the morning, another in the evening etc., or assembling all these almighties together(son, daughter, uncle and aunt almighties!!!) in one place and praying to each of them with a different invocation for different boons is a meaningless exercise-to be polite. Subscribe to one Almighty and be faithful and loyal to him. That appears to be a better position. LOL.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Vaagmi Sir,
You seem to indirectly advise me to follow the 'nAmam' instead of the 'pattai'!! :decision:

Who knows! It might end up in a pattai nAmam!!

 

[Raji Ram]

How can such songs exist if there is only ONE almighty??

Please enjoy this song sung by your favorite singer:

Enna Kavi Padinalum - Aruna Sairam

 

[Naina_Marbus]

Hi Renuka,

When you call a spade a spade, you will receive only brickbats not Boquet.

One of the characters in Oscar Wilde’s novel The Picture of Dorian Gray remarks:
"It is a sad truth, but we have lost the faculty of giving lovely names to things. The man who could call a spade a spade should be compelled to use one. It is the only thing he is fit for." It was Oscar Wilde’s way of saying: இனிய உளவாக இன்னாத கூறல் கனியிருப்பக் காய் கவர்ந்தற்று.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi Sir,
1)You seem to indirectly advise me to follow the 'nAmam' instead of the 'pattai'!! :decision:

2)Who knows! It might end up in a pattai nAmam!!

1)I do not advice anybody anything directly or indirectly unless specifically asked for. Here you did not ask for anything and so I have not given you any advice. Period.
2)I personally believe that those who add a pattainaamam to themselves for whatsoever reason are better human beings than those who regularly paint it on others all over. Howzaat!! LOL.

 

[renuka]

Vaagmi ji...answers in blue:

Renukaji,



A vaishnava's mind is full of Srimannarayana and you as well as anyone else is already in it. He does not let you in because you are already there. It is unfortunate that you suffer from a tunnel vision of maya and unable to see the reality as it really is. Only you can help yourself.

But surprisingly some Iyengars do not even want to pass by a Shiva Temple!LOL

If I am already in a Vaishanava's mind..how come they left Lord Shiva out??

What yaar???That is what I cant understand of Iyengarism! They claim everything is in Sriman Narayana yet they have total cataract..at least I have tunnel vision!LOL

I met that ISCKONITE friend of you and he had the same thing to tell about you. After a conversation each one goes with his/her impressions.

After he met you..He has left ISCKON after hearing a gene theory!LOL He worships you now!LOL

More than a vaishnava, he was just a stupid priest. He should have left the chidanand...... alone. He should have understood that he was speaking with some one whose attention span for him was predetermined and limited. And what a medium to discuss metaphysics and God--a telephone!!

hey what is this yaar...you calling a fellow Iyengar stupid? Narayana! Narayana!



It appears truth is revealing itself to you in a stream of episodes. There are many more to come. Please wait for them and then take a final view. Whatever contacts you have had with Vaishnavam is just nothing. Wait for it or go looking for it with an open mind. Or better be happy with just shivoham (it is not bad) and never venture out . Out there it is a noisy market place where good, original, fake and bad products are all well packed and sold. What matters there is just decibels and dollars. Many a time what you get is just fake or a counterfeit . That leaves a bad taste finally. Good luck. LOL.

Actually now I am using the word Iyengarism instead of Vaishnavaism cos I think its more appropriate.

 

[Vaagmi]

Renukaji,

Your blues are treated by my plain Times Roman below. Please read and perceive:

1.But surprisingly some Iyengars do not even want to pass by a Shiva Temple!LOL

2. If I am already in a Vaishanava's mind..how come they left Lord Shiva out??

3. What yaar???That is what I cant understand of Iyengarism! They claim everything is in Sriman Narayana yet they have total cataract..at least I have tunnel vision!LO

1. I have some Saivites who will never come anywhere near a Vaishnavites' temple. So, for scoring points there are enough hot heads in every faction. I believe the members here are a different class altogether.

2. Lord Shiva too is in. Did you not see Him. He was there standing by your side when you were chanting shivoham.....shivoham.

3. For tunnel vision victim a normal eye lens will look like a cataract afflicted one. So I am not surprised.

After he met you..He has left ISCKON after hearing a gene theory!LOL He worships you now!LOL

Yeah. He is with me now. Poor fellow. He says his love ditched him and ran away after SRK singing some stupid love number. He says the gene theory has proved itself once again in his life and that he is looking for a TB wife. I told him to be wary because TB girls are tough to handle and he has the Mendel's theory of selection to worry about for all bad qualities of centuries of his scottish gene may get enhanced and all the good of the TB genes may regress and his offspring may be a monster. After hearing me he has taken sanyas-real celibacy and all that. LOL. He now confirms he does not get gene theory nightmares like some members here. It acts as a booster to the ego to know that a member worships me for my theory. LOL.

hey what is this yaar...you calling a fellow Iyengar stupid? Narayana! Narayana!

You worrying about the monstrous Iyengars? What is this!! Siva SivA.... shivoham shivoham. LOL.

Actually now I am using the word Iyengarism instead of Vaishnavaism cos I think its more appropriate.

That means you had the benefit of another episode. Keep it up. You are doing well. LOL.

 

[renuka]

Vaagmi ji..my answers in blue:

Renukaji,



Yeah. He is with me now. Poor fellow. He says his love ditched him and ran away after SRK singing some stupid love number. He says the gene theory has proved itself once again in his life and that he is looking for a TB wife. I told him to be wary because TB girls are tough to handle and he has the Mendel's theory of selection to worry about for all bad qualities of centuries of his scottish gene may get enhanced and all the good of the TB genes may regress and his offspring may be a monster. After hearing me he has taken sanyas-real celibacy and all that. LOL. He now confirms he does not get gene theory nightmares like some members here. It acts as a booster to the ego to know that a member worships me for my theory. LOL.

So he was in love with Gauri Chibber Khan? Poor guy that she ditched him for SRK!LOL

Why do you say TB women are hard to handle? I need to ask RR ji this!

Why cant that member worship you??

Remember the song Iyengaaru Veetu Azaghe?

There is a line where the Iyengar girl sings to the Iyengar male:

un pol chamathu ulaginil illai

So that is why it comes as no surprise that it was an Iyengar who came up with the gene theory cos un pol chamathu ulaginil illai


You worrying about the monstrous Iyengars? What is this!! Siva SivA.... shivoham shivoham. LOL.


That Iyengar was funny..he did not like me hearing Shivoham Shivoham but he did not mind singing 'Excuse me Mr Kandasamy" song for me and my husband!LOL


That means you had the benefit of another episode. Keep it up. You are doing well. LOL

Yes...the mega serial continues!


.

 

[sarang]

In tamizh too, it is vainavam, saivam. There is no need to anglicize when traditional, time tested and native terms are available.

Sarang ji..but we still writing in English yaar..Bhavan Kim Samskrite Na Likhati?

 

[sarang]

No confusion. For iha loka benefits one prays to multitudes of gods approved by tradition and scriptures. For moksha sri!man Nakayana. Only one in billion billion works for moksha.

Dear Renu,

Each one has his / her own way of praying the Almighty. What is wrong if the Almighty is depicted in many ways?

This is to enable persons to choose whatever form they like and believe in that mighty force. Many stories are made

about each deity and believed by the bhakthas. We can not brand them as 'nut cases' because nut = :loco:

and :loco: =

Image courtesy: Google images.