Secular India

[rishikesan]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

Mr.Brahmchari, you have analysed so well. I do agree that the Hindu Vedas and Mantras are recited by word of mouth and takes years to master. At least good number of Ptpasalas train young boys a
Nd therefore SanSkrit is revived, to some extent. We aller of read slokas in Tamil , like Sahasranamam
An a num

 

[vignesh2014]

This is because of the extreme tolerance Hindus practised for thousands of years without retaliation and another one when some one is pushed to a corner, the natural tendency is to go forward and attack.

 

[renuka]

why are hindus not showing interest in reading the scriptures and trying to know what is written in them? why don't hindus inspire their fellow-hindus to know their scriptures. what is hindering hindus from showing interest in the scriptures? so what if it is written in sanskrit? why don't hindus learn sanskrit and read and understand the scriptures. there is plenty of treasure in the sanskrit slokas, mantras etc. why dont hindus explore and exploit those treasures? I really wonder!!!!!

Dear Brahmachari,

May be there has been a feeling that only one who is Brahmin by birth needs to study all these and sometimes there are also some "restrictions" imposed for Non Brahmins.

Many a times we do read that a NB is not supposed to recite the Gayatri Mantra etc...I once met an Iyengar priest from India who told me as a woman I should never recite the Gayatri Mantra.

Now many people might feel not encouraged when they are told this cos they might get scared that they are committing a sin but those who fear nothing study what they want to study.

That is what that holds back many people in Hinduism....but I wonder why your are wondering?? Cos you did mention in another post that Non Brahmins should not become priests and rob away a Brahmins birth right duty..so frankly speaking..why are you wondering??

If one who desires to become a priest is considered a "robber"....how do you expect the study of Sanskrit and religion to prosper?

 

[vignesh2014]

hat is what that holds back many people in Hinduism....but I wonder why your are wondering?? Cos you did mention in another post that Non Brahmins should not become priests and rob away a Brahmins birth right duty..so frankly speaking..why are you wondering??

If one who desires to become a priest is considered a "robber"....how do you expect the study of Sanskrit and religion to prosper?

Dear Ms. Renuka

I think since you know many things you might have known the story of "SATYA KAMA" who was not a brahmin. Since he uttered the truth, he was treated as a brahmin and allowed to learn VEDA. Like that it is not that all brahmins as though being born as Brahmin Learn veda. Only people whose ancestors practice VEDA ADYAYANA became in their next generation continue in this tradition. Therefore it is not brahmin or non-brahmin but ancestral right.

As far as OM is concerned, it should be chanted by men only because, women have womb..that will get affected by OM.OM is for sanyasis only...As far as Male is concerned..they are having Brahmacharya and Sanyasa Ashramam..For Ladies only Krahasta Ashramam and Vana Prasta ashramam only prescribed because of their body condition. All our Mantras start with OM especially Gaytri Mantra needs utmost purity to chant. Even Males are not having that much potency because they are not chanting or doing japa in the way it has to be meditated

 

[renuka]

Dear Ms. Renuka

I think since you know many things you might have known the story of "SATYA KAMA" who was not a brahmin. Since he uttered the truth, he was treated as a brahmin and allowed to learn VEDA. Like that it is not that all brahmins as though being born as Brahmin Learn veda. Only people whose ancestors practice VEDA ADYAYANA became in their next generation continue in this tradition. Therefore it is not brahmin or non-brahmin but ancestral right.

As far as OM is concerned, it should be chanted by men only because, women have womb..that will get affected by OM.OM is for sanyasis only...As far as Male is concerned..they are having Brahmacharya and Sanyasa Ashramam..For Ladies only Krahasta Ashramam and Vana Prasta ashramam only prescribed because of their body condition. All our Mantras start with OM especially Gaytri Mantra needs utmost purity to chant. Even Males are not having that much potency because they are not chanting or doing japa in the way it has to be meditated

Dear Sir,

Firstly I do not really know many things..I am still in the process of learning cos learning never ends.

Well that story of Sathya Kama son of Jabala makes you wonder these:

1)He was admitted to study cos he uttered the truth and considered a Brahmin..that makes it sound as if Non Brahmins do not speak the truth!LOL
Till today when it comes to adhering to truth its King Harischandras name that comes to our mind and no one else.


2)Secondly his mother had served as a maid and also served male visitors that came to the house of her employer.
Ok..a maid in the past was like some bonded labour who had to serve ever whims and fancies of her employer..sort of exploited and even if Sathya Kama's father was a Brahmin..what type of male has sex with someone else's maid that too without getting married?
So that speaks a lot about his father.

So I guess thats why all honour is given to his mother..hence he is Sathya Kama son of Jabala.




BTW the AUM not being allowed to be chanted by female cos they have a womb in my opinion does not really seem too within the scope of logic cos AUM is Shabdha Brahman and permeates the universe.

Many of us females recite it and nothing bad has happened to anyone of us.

BTW for every organ in the body.. a male and female has the homologous organ to match.

The homologous organ might not be in full function but nevertheless its still from the same origin of cells during development in utero.

The Homologous organ for a uterus(womb) in the male is the Prostatic Utricle and it serves no active function in the male body.

So on technical grounds the male too has a 'womb' so if a male can recite AUM I dont see any reason why a female cant recite AUM.

These are the Homologous organs in male and female(taken from Wikipedia)..happy comparing:



Counterparts[edit]

[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Indifferent[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Male[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Female[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gonad[/TD]
[TD]Testis[/TD]
[TD]Ovary[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Paramesonephric duct
(Müllerian duct)[/TD]
[TD]Appendix testis[/TD]
[TD]Fallopian tubes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Paramesonephric duct[/TD]
[TD]Prostatic utricle[/TD]
[TD]Uterus, vagina[SUP][1][/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mesonephric tubules[/TD]
[TD]Efferent ducts, Paradidymis[/TD]
[TD]Epoophoron, Paroöphoron[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mesonephric duct
(Wolffian duct)[/TD]
[TD]Rete testis[/TD]
[TD]Rete ovarii[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mesonephric duct[/TD]
[TD]Epididymis[/TD]
[TD]Gartner's duct[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mesonephric duct[/TD]
[TD]Vas deferens[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mesonephric duct[/TD]
[TD]Seminal vesicle[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Urogenital sinus[/TD]
[TD]Prostate[/TD]
[TD]Skene's glands[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Urogenital sinus[/TD]
[TD]Bladder, urethra[/TD]
[TD]Bladder, urethra[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Urogenital sinus[/TD]
[TD]Cowper's or Bulbourethral gland[/TD]
[TD]Bartholin's gland[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Labioscrotal folds[/TD]
[TD]Scrotum[/TD]
[TD]Labia majora[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Urogenital folds[/TD]
[TD]Spongy urethra[/TD]
[TD]Labia minora[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Genital tubercle[/TD]
[TD]Penis[/TD]
[TD]Clitoris[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Genital tubercle[/TD]
[TD]Bulb of penis[/TD]
[TD]Vestibular bulbs[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Genital tubercle[/TD]
[TD]Glans penis[/TD]
[TD]Clitoral glans[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Genital tubercle[/TD]
[TD]Crus of penis[/TD]
[TD]Clitoral crura[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Prepuce[/TD]
[TD]Foreskin[/TD]
[TD]Clitoral hood[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Peritoneum[/TD]
[TD]Processus vaginalis[/TD]
[TD]Canal of Nuck[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gubernaculum[/TD]
[TD]Gubernaculum testis[/TD]
[TD]Round ligament of uterus[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[vignesh2014]

These are all some long term effects and very slow effects that science still has not understood..don't think science is "BE ALL AND END ALL" ....Our Rishis are better than present day scientists because whenever they do something...or teach something to others , they will think and do only if it is for world good

 

[vignesh2014]

The thing that our rishis told are not without scientific basis but not according to the present day standards...Why should God created MAN and WOMAN in different ways?...If all are equal, why everybody is not having the same intelligence, IQ or way of grasping knowledge..

 

[renuka]

The thing that our rishis told are not without scientific basis but not according to the present day standards...Why should God created MAN and WOMAN in different ways?...If all are equal, why everybody is not having the same intelligence, IQ or way of grasping knowledge..

I usually like to read everything with some amount of evidence base.

BTW its actually very hard to determine a person's intelligence level....scoring high marks,fast to grasp etc are not clear cut good indicators.

At present even Emotional Quotient(EQ) besides IQ is taken in consideration when it comes to productivity and success and also endurance.

BTW these days you can see (see Chit Chat Section) where children from various castes from very poor homes are coming top in state level exams.

Its all boils down to one exposure to studies..parental encouragement and hardwork and equal opportunity.

Anyone with a normal functioning brain can study when they have the interest.

BTW I am not disputing any Rishis finding but since in the ancient past there has been a host of female learned individuals too..I wonder what they studied if they could not even recite AUM?

Sage Kapila imparted Divine knowledge to his mother Devahuti in real detail.

So you see there seems to be a discrepancy about the position of women in ancient times..they did not seemed all that denied of divine knowledge but at the same time we do hear all sorts of restrictions imposed on women in times after that.

So since its debatable..I guess there is no real answer.

 

[vignesh2014]

There are evidence for many of these ...why is there so many gays and lesbians now..we have cross dressing people...all these happened because of not practising brahmacharya in young age

 

[vignesh2014]

When it is SHABDAPADA BRAHMAN, you can take the benefits from the universe itself why should you chant that..Even Vedas is like that (it is in the cosmic..even our thought process)..therefore just like "PASSIVE SMOKING" , you can get the benefits even without uttering...I'm not experienced or rishi to explain everything in detail...May be you can go to some swamiji who is having scientific bend of mind and clarify all these things.

 

[vignesh2014]

hat is what that holds back many people in Hinduism....but I wonder why your are wondering?? Cos you did mention in another post that Non Brahmins should not become priests and rob away a Brahmins birth right duty..so frankly speaking..why are you wondering??

Robber means robbing one's own duty...but i didn't mention this may be Mr. Vaggmi might have mentioned this.Science in many things are not analysing root of the problems since everything has become market oriented. They want to sell as many products as possible. For that if there are more problems only they can sell more.Rishis on those days didn't have any commercial necessity or market oriented pressure to amass wealth.

 

[vignesh2014]

Firstly I do not really know many things..I am still in the process of learning cos learning never ends.

- If you are still learning "YOU should adapt the attitude "VIDYA VINAYA SAMPANNAHA" ..that is learning can be done by people who are not pride of their knoweldge and submit meekly to the Guru without questioning.

 

[vignesh2014]

Even in classes, the teacher will say don't ask doubts in the middle..since you are in the learning process...go to some learned elders (MAY BE LIKE SANKARA or like SANKARACHARYA or any religious leader who is not bigot who is not teaching to just fill his belly and to satisfy one group)

 

[vignesh2014]

Caste Hindus are not Forward people, they are mostly B.C or M.BC who fear their reservation quota will get affected..that's why the fight..it is not based on caste...it is economic struggle

 

[vignesh2014]

OM is pronounced in different ways...some get it from their lower abdomen , some from middle, some from top...it is the way it is pronounced ..even one can tell it from the tip of the tongue OM...or AUM...Aa, U (u in tamil ), M ..Therefore if you are pronouncing in a particular way it may not affect...it may not also give the best result. just like in Asanas or YOGA, if you are not maintaining straight posture or keep the energy circulated within your body by not leaving gaps between legs and arms.

 

[renuka]

- If you are still learning "YOU should adapt the attitude "VIDYA VINAYA SAMPANNAHA" ..that is learning can be done by people who are not pride of their knoweldge and submit meekly to the Guru without questioning.

Dear Sir,

You have only quoted part of the Shloka from Geeta.

I am sure you are aware its this:

TEXT 18​

vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah​

So the Vidya Vinaya Sampanne is referring to the learned and humble Brahmana.

I am not a Brahmin by birth ..so since you want everyone to follow the scriptures I can escape on technical grounds by saying that this Vidya Vinaye Sampanne does not apply to me! LOL


BTW Sir..I think I have been civil in all my responses to you and I did say that I do not know much and still learning..so for all practical purposes I am still ignorant...I hope you are not mistaking being able to debate with you as me being arrogant.BTW one learns from Question and Answers effectively.

As far as I know the worst pride ever to have is pride of learning which I surely will not let myself be infected by it.

P.S..somehow Capslock written BOLD ALPHABETS here and there without spacing is giving me a DeJa Vu!LOL

 

[vignesh2014]

The main thing which are all debatable today were not debated in those days because they never applied false logic and reasoning. They respected the elders..."PERIYAVA SONNA PERUMAL SONNA MATHIRI"..that is they equated the elders to gods...If there is no real difference between man and woman, can a man become pregnant or give milk without any scientific ways..that is anything which is natural if spoiled can be done in a very crooked and perverted ways and it requires lot of scientific experiments, lot of costs involved and the percentage of success is very meek or very low or some times, it is not even 50% success. No Woman or No person in other VARNAS NEVER debated these things and when they followed the order properly, there was more harmony in the society. When knowledge is not given to right people, it will lead to more confusion. This is not told by me..this is told by Lord krishna in Bhavagad Gita and instructed Arjuna and others to follow their natural ways to evolve rather than following other's dharma even if it is greater than their (or nobler) Dharma. Everything in evolution also does not suddenly become another thing..it takes millions of years to evolve..Nature has its own way but human being (due to western education) thinks in another way and spoil every nature's true agenda and make more confusions and complications.

 

[renuka]

The main thing which are all debatable today were not debated in those days because they never applied false logic and reasoning. They respected the elders..."PERIYAVA SONNA PERUMAL SONNA MATHIRI"..that is they equated the elders to gods...If there is no real difference between man and woman, can a man become pregnant or give milk without any scientific ways..that is anything which is natural if spoiled can be done in a very crooked and perverted ways and it requires lot of scientific experiments, lot of costs involved and the percentage of success is very meek or very low or some times, it is not even 50% success. No Woman or No person in other VARNAS NEVER debated these things and when they followed the order properly, there was more harmony in the society. When knowledge is not given to right people, it will lead to more confusion. This is not told by me..this is told by Lord krishna in Bhavagad Gita and instructed Arjuna and others to follow their natural ways to evolve rather than following other's dharma even if it is greater than their (or nobler) Dharma. Everything in evolution also does not suddenly become another thing..it takes millions of years to evolve..Nature has its own way but human being (due to western education) thinks in another way and spoil every nature's true agenda and make more confusions and complications.

Why do I feel I know you??

 

[renuka]

Even in classes, the teacher will say don't ask doubts in the middle..since you are in the learning process...go to some learned elders (MAY BE LIKE SANKARA or like SANKARACHARYA or any religious leader who is not bigot who is not teaching to just fill his belly and to satisfy one group)

Nope..I never had any such teachers..in fact in our classes and even in college..our proffs used to say "stop me anytime when you need clarification".

 

[renuka]

The main thing which are all debatable today were not debated in those days because they never applied false logic and reasoning. They respected the elders..."PERIYAVA SONNA PERUMAL SONNA MATHIRI"..that is they equated the elders to gods...If there is no real difference between man and woman, can a man become pregnant or give milk without any scientific ways..that is anything which is natural if spoiled can be done in a very crooked and perverted ways and it requires lot of scientific experiments, lot of costs involved and the percentage of success is very meek or very low or some times, it is not even 50% success. No Woman or No person in other VARNAS NEVER debated these things and when they followed the order properly, there was more harmony in the society. When knowledge is not given to right people, it will lead to more confusion. This is not told by me..this is told by Lord krishna in Bhavagad Gita and instructed Arjuna and others to follow their natural ways to evolve rather than following other's dharma even if it is greater than their (or nobler) Dharma. Everything in evolution also does not suddenly become another thing..it takes millions of years to evolve..Nature has its own way but human being (due to western education) thinks in another way and spoil every nature's true agenda and make more confusions and complications.

BTW what is your opinion about the West?

May I have your opinion please cos most of the scientific studies comes from the West and I was wondering what is your opinion about the west..sometime back there was a member who started this thread..may be you should read this.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/16670-impact-western-civilization.html

 

[vignesh2014]

Dear Ms. Renuka

I am not a Brahmin by birth ..so since you want everyone to follow the scriptures I can escape on technical grounds by saying that this Vidya Vinaye Sampanne does not apply to me! LOL

It is not one become Brahmin by birth but by act only

 

[vignesh2014]

In my opinion, every body should act according to their natural way east or west home is best

 

[vignesh2014]

It is according to their gene makeup only, one can behave..whatever our shortcomings or fortunes in terms of "Just like padavi poorva punyanam", it is according to our genetic traits and the karma we acquire due to our particular gene makeup. Even when you want to get out of your surroundings and fight and go against all odds , it is also mostly determined by your karmic way only..Only rare people fight destiny and win...that is also according to my opinion this "KARMA THEORY" only..it is not "KARMA THEORY" which make us suffer...but our own failings in our previous births which make us suffer.No one to blame.

 

[renuka]

It is according to their gene makeup only, one can behave..whatever our shortcomings or fortunes in terms of "Just like padavi poorva punyanam", it is according to our genetic traits and the karma we acquire due to our particular gene makeup. Even when you want to get out of your surroundings and fight and go against all odds , it is also mostly determined by your karmic way only..Only rare people fight destiny and win...that is also according to my opinion this "KARMA THEORY" only..it is not "KARMA THEORY" which make us suffer...but our own failings in our previous births which make us suffer.No one to blame.

How hard can life get yaar? Don't we all do what we feel inclined to do?

So that way we cant streamline everyone to be the same based on genetic traits cos even identical twins can differ in behavior..I know a set of identical twins..the elder twin is gay and the younger twin has 2 wives(married to 2 females ..sanctioned by his religion)

So its hard to say that genetic make up decides all.

BTW if we keep lamenting that its all Karma etc we seldom act on the present.

 

[vignesh2014]

even twins also have their own genetic traits externally they may look alike not internally..gene selection process is very random..dormant and recessive genes and activation of genes are done according to their own karmic things decided by previous births also. Here i'm combining both eastern and western thinking.Probably it may be difficult for people to comprehend what i'm saying...Even though i wanted to be like my father, i have inherited more of my mother and their ancestor traits. Here only the intelligence portion of it , i acquired from my father but unlike my father my thinking pattern is.Every living being is unique in this world...no one can mimic another...there will be one and only one like everybody..even though there are billions or trillions of life...God's ways are also very unique and our destiny also.