Secular India

[sarang]

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There is no history of dalits being killed; isolated local incidents of recent age are not representative. They were isolated and their ill treatment is from british times, but no killing.

Only mass killing has a long history, and hindus were at the receiving end most of the time. Only proper documenting of such happenings - just listing without assigning reasons and evaluations (these are debatable) will put things in proper perspective and will restrain JNU historians from falsifying history.

So compared to what Dalits went thru and are still going tru in India...other caste have not much to complain about cos no one killed other castes like how Dalits were killed.

 

[renuka]

There is no history of dalits being killed; isolated local incidents of recent age are not representative. They were isolated and their ill treatment is from british times, but no killing.

Only mass killing has a long history, and hindus were at the receiving end most of the time. Only proper documenting of such happenings - just listing without assigning reasons and evaluations (these are debatable) will put things in proper perspective and will restrain JNU historians from falsifying history.

Fair enough..but has any one single community in India ever been tru such harsh ill treatment?

When I read how Dr Ambedkar went tru life in school that just becos he was a Dalit he had to wait for the peon to give him water to drink..if the peon was absent for that day he would go thirsty all day long.

I cant imagine..the school would have had female teachers too..cant anyone feel for a thirsty child?

This is what I fail to understand...why at least maternal instincts cant move a woman to give water to a thirsty child?

Even recently I read from a blog that a Dalit child in some North of India suffered severe scald wounds when hot fluid was thrown at the child by a female cook.

The cook had boiled eggs and kept aside to be given to kids and the Dalit child happened to touch those boiled eggs and for that the female cook who was of an apparently "higher" caste threw hot boiling fluid(some soup) and scalding that child who is serious in the hospital.

So you see all these will never happen to any other caste child...only a Dalit suffers all these.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Dear Mr Naina, You are absolutely right & you have added the required strength to the ground situation prevailed in 40/ 50s When D. K ceased to be relevant, Tamil brahmins were becoming more prominent and the next generation got full opportunities to study Engineering & secured some seats in F.C quota & joined Pvt Engg colleges even paying capitation fees , somehow got Distinctions & made a Bee- line to U.S and as the saying goes , it is now a HISTORY. Our friend , vociferous Dr. Renuka would not be knowing the Dravidian atrocities committed to Tamil brahmins & only those of 70s of Age would have known the plight & subsequent happenings, which has only brought out positive/ definitive transformation which the parents regale to-day & enjoy the International life by vising Western countries in thousands ,even amassing wealth, in legal ways, unlike politicians of to-date ( There are no Tamil Brahmin politition, in this Corruption rife M.Ps/ M.L. A.s) Let us all feel proud & promote unity , reducing the day-to=day criticism between us .
I really appeal to the Senior/ knowledgeable members & also young/ active new members to suggest ways & means to promote less previleged among us.
Sincerely,
Rishikesan

You cannot bring unity and interest thereafter without uniform approach.

Take the case of Iyers in TN: how may sub-sects and majority of Iyers still prefer it. Added to this, the two Sankara Mutts - Sringeri and Kanchi. Iyers from the various districts in TN follow Sringeri and Kanchi according to customs and conventions, and fighting as to its originality.

The need of the hour is the educated and progressive Iyer youths must come forward and break all these unnecessary divisions and form a common code. Only thru this, you can be united fully and will be in a position to identify the under-privileged for necessary help.

Interest cannot be generated with wayward thinking and inconsistent practices.

In one of my earlier blogs, I mentioned how Parsis helped a poor Parsi tailor who lived in Salem. This story was disclosed in the first Brahmin meeting held in Chennai during 1982.

The peculiarity of Iyer community is we are neither large in number nor united fully but indirectly come to the conclusion that without Iyengars' support survival is difficult.

The story goes on.

 

[tks]

I hope all fair minded people who pursue Dharma will speak against any form of discrimination against anyone rather than compare and contrast types of discrimination. For one to be truly beyond caste and religion based biases, one must learn to see people as people and not bring caste or religious label into the discussion beyond treating it as a label.

 

[rishikesan]

C.M.Jaya is no doubt Brahmin, but she entered politics Thru Film & mentor MGR. Having entered Politics , that too the Dravidian set-up, she is no more to be counted as Brahmin , because the evils surrounding her has overtaken & she lives a separate Life, No doubt because of her inner feelings she is perhaps attempting Prayachitham , by way of adopting Srirangam as her latest favourite Town, The command/ autocracy as a Brahmin to deter the Dravidian leaders is perhaps unique , cannot have been thought by Karunanidhi , who is most hatred to brahmins & can be awarded Bharat Ratna ?
More he cries Foul of Brahmins more they flourish. Ofcourse all of us should agree that that there is no taker in his party for all these empty slogans.
Srinivasan

 

[renuka]

C.M.Jaya is no doubt Brahmin, but she entered politics Thru Film & mentor MGR. Having entered Politics , that too the Dravidian set-up, she is no more to be counted as Brahmin
Srinivasan

Dear Sir,

But she is a Brahmin by birth..that no one can deny.

BTW sir..I hope Tamil Nadu will learn to see everyone as Indians and once and for all get rid of the this outdated Brahmin & Dravidian divide.

Its high time caste politics be got rid of from TN.

Sir..you yourself speak of the divide many times and mention the past where TBs were sort of treated badly by the Dravidian movement as you mentioned in your previous post.

I would like to highlight a point here..in the past in Forum some members used to blame Brahmins for all the caste system,Manu Smriti etc but many other members used to say that it is not fair to blame the present generation of Brahmins for discrimination (if any) done by their ancestors and forget the past and move on.

So this same logic also should apply to all now..that is forget the past and move on to improve the country without dragging in petty differences of caste etc.

Here in your post you feel Jayalalithas association with a Dravidian party renders here a Non Brahmin..doesn't this show that you still want to divide and rule in your own mind?

This is also how a hardcore Dravidian thinks..that a Brahmin is different from him and he needs to discriminate.

With this mindset in TN how will the state prosper? There is no use if you have even 10 Modis for PM..even if God rules TN I am sure this differences will never disappear!

 

[biswa]

Very good post Renukaji. Hopefully the educated people show less of this backward behavior.

It is just human nature to try to seize some opportunity to gain an advantage. Yesterday there was reservation for Brahmins and forward castes, today there is reservation for Dalits and backward castes. These are all crutches used by people who cant stand on their own.

Sometimes this us vs them turns even racial, though it is quite hard to distinguish races in Indian because there is no pure race.

We only have responsibility to favor the economically disadvantaged. The rest are just trying to play the system.

 

[rishikesan]

You are right. Tamil people in general are hypocrats to the core. They will change sides on flimsy grounds The have no firm principles. Friends if any, would let down the other and would find words to substantiate his actions. They are not fit for democratic way of life . They will explicitly obey anyone who rules with an iron hand, at least up to the time he is able to muster people against the ruler & ditch him, & never ever be grateful to those who would have helped ? HISTORY reveals all these in earlier centuries. I do not think, the general attitude will change and it is a curse that tamilians are not grateful & do not have the broad heart to accept facts. , because they are such intelligent people , they can argue for & against in the same breadth> Only God can possibly change, But things cannot change , henceforth, because KALIYUG has completed 5200 years & immorality would be the order of the day, as we read most horror incidents of rape of Daughter by father & brother with the support of Mother . It is most cruel & can there be anything to beat such things . One should be prepared to go on hearing or reading such horrors till the end comes to Kaliyug , the whole world would be lost & new world would be created by the ALMIGHTY. We have to believe, not to question , right or wrong ?

Rishikesan

 

[vgane]

Read this article about the fake secularists

Modi's Symbolism and Secularism - The New Indian Express

 

[sarang]

An excellent article. A must read for tambram secularists to understand the issue.

Read this article about the fake secularists

Modi's Symbolism and Secularism - The New Indian Express

 

[krish44]

Dear Sir,

But she is a Brahmin by birth..that no one can deny.

BTW sir..I hope Tamil Nadu will learn to see everyone as Indians and once and for all get rid of the this outdated Brahmin & Dravidian divide.

Its high time caste politics be got rid of from TN.

Sir..you yourself speak of the divide many times and mention the past where TBs were sort of treated badly by the Dravidian movement as you mentioned in your previous post.

I would like to highlight a point here..in the past in Forum some members used to blame Brahmins for all the caste system,Manu Smriti etc but many other members used to say that it is not fair to blame the present generation of Brahmins for discrimination (if any) done by their ancestors and forget the past and move on.

So this same logic also should apply to all now..that is forget the past and move on to improve the country without dragging in petty differences of caste etc.

Here in your post you feel Jayalalithas association with a Dravidian party renders here a Non Brahmin..doesn't this show that you still want to divide and rule in your own mind?

This is also how a hardcore Dravidian thinks..that a Brahmin is different from him and he needs to discriminate.

With this mindset in TN how will the state prosper? There is no use if you have even 10 Modis for PM..even if God rules TN I am sure this differences will never disappear!

tamlnadu cannot change modi or no modi.it can change only with economic prosperity
for all. tn was not affected by modi wave
innorth , mandlists , sc/st minorities were swept . away unless this happens in TN we have to put up with the existing order

 

[vignesh2014]

Most Hindus do not know what the Vedas, Upanishads, Brahmanas, Gita etc contain. Mainly bcoz the language is Sanskrit, which is no longer spoken but exists only in literature. There are few who can interpret the sanskrit texts correctly for anyone. Besides most of the so-called hindus are not interested in knowing their religion. for them roti kapda aur makaan is all that they want. furthermore the contents of the sanskrit texts are too complicated, you need to exercise your brain (which harldy any common indian would love to) taking it through an intellectual gymnasium. for any text/scripture to appeal, it has to be simple, translated in a language familiar to you. hence the bible, which is translated in almost every language of the world, has impacted the global population. nevertheless, the contents of the bible, especially the new testament, are very simple to understand. whereas when it comes to sanskrit texts, gone are the likes of chinmayananda et al who can give a captivating discourse on gita to a large audience. the current indian population does not want philosophy. they want instant miracles. hence a benny hinn could draw a large crowd in india than a vivekananda could in US.

Ms.Kuvalayavalli this holds true for every religious book including Bible and Kuran since no body knows Latin or Arabic either...That's the main problem with the interpretation by religious bigots

 

[renuka]

Ms.Kuvalayavalli this holds true for every religious book including Bible and Kuran since no body knows Latin or Arabic either...That's the main problem with the interpretation by religious bigots

Dear Sir,

Nope..this is not true at least when it comes to Islam..I dont know about India but outhere where I stay Muslims know their Arabic cos Muslim school children attend 2 schools daily...the Regular National school and also Religious schools.

Religious school has Arabic as their main subject.

So the kids understand what they are reading.

Its us Hindus who do not take the trouble to know what we are reading..hence we have people who recite mantras without knowing the meaning.

 

[vignesh2014]

QUOTE=renuka;247479 Dear Ms. Renuka,

This actually is not true in most households in Brahmins. I learnt sanskrit privately.Many people now a days learn hindi compulsorily. Therefore it will be not be difficult to pick up sanskrit.Most of the verses are sanskritized version of Tamil only. Therefore they unknowingly learn sanskrit words and even use it without their knowledge. Even the article in which "Impact of Western Civilization " , i saw that Meru is a sanskrit word used by malays. Therefore in indonesia and combodia,thailand also they use more sanskrit words.In tamilnadu, they wanted to spoil that.but they can't do that because it has become part and parcel of india ..if not most commonly spoken langugage, alteast many sanskirt words people use unknowingly.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Sir,

Nope..this is not true at least when it comes to Islam..I dont know about India but outhere where I stay Muslims know their Arabic cos Muslim school children attend 2 schools daily...the Regular National school and also Religious schools.

Religious school has Arabic as their main subject.

So the kids understand what they are reading.

Its us Hindus who do not take the trouble to know what we are reading..hence we have people who recite mantras without knowing the meaning.

Renukaji,

I thought you know India better.

The followers of Islam across the Bay of Bengal do not think Arabic is an instrument of enslavement. They believe that it is a language in which the original of Koran and other religious texts of Islam have been rendered and so learn it to understand them better.

In india Sanskrit is made out to be an instrument of subjugation. Our politicians gave it also the name that it is an instrument of Brahminism, whatever that word means. They have used it to raise blind but intense passions in the minds of people. If you were to introduce the two school system in India, you will find buses getting burnt, trains getting vandalized and those delinquents getting killed in the police firing getting the honorific "Mozhippore Veerar". Their families will get from the National Exchequer the monthly pension for indulging in all these delinquency. India is a different cup of tea. LOL.

 

[vignesh2014]

QUOTE=renuka;247479 Dear Ms. Renuka,

There is no need to know the meaning of sanskrit slokas because uttering a syllable in a proper way is the most important than knowing the meaning. Meanings can be interpreted in different different ways by different people but the uttering of syllable can't be changed. Therefore it is called Vedic utterance instead of vedic study..It is actully taken by very poor brahmins and they are not coming in reservation

 

[vignesh2014]

Force conversion never happened in Hindus...They were driven out of the hindu religion mainly because high caste hindus never bothered to their agonies (it is not the fault of brahmins but the entire system)..Language wise Sanskrit should be given prime importance because it is the mother of all universal languages ..if not agreed at least mother of all indian languages.

 

[biswa]

Arabic is the native language in the middle east including Arabian peninsula, Jordan/Syria/Iraq and north Africa. For others including Iranians, Afghans, Pakis, Bangladeshis, Burmese, Malaysians, Indonesians, Uighurs it is not a native language.

The issue is not exactly the same as Sanskrit, because Sanskrit is the root language for much of India (except TN maybe). But we are not a "people of the Book". Hinduism is a dynamic religion that can flourish without even the knowledge of Vedas (some of which reads like a conquest epic anyway).

 

[Vaagmi]

Hinduism is a dynamic religion that can flourish without even the knowledge of Vedas (some of which reads like a conquest epic anyway).

All religions of the world can do without a holybook. Go and ask the man on the street about his holy book. His knowledge will be just next to zero. He would be able to say only the name of his God as he has been told by his religion. Nothing more. Most of the holy books in existence irrespective of the religions are about conquests. You name it I can tell you a conquest story from it. What is worse, some of them even are graphic chronicles of incestuous living. LOL.

 

[renuka]

All religions of the world can do without a holybook. Go and ask the man on the street about his holy book. His knowledge will be just next to zero.

Dont underestimate the power of a common man!(Shah Rukh Khan's punch dialogue from Chennai Express).

 

[renuka]

You name it I can tell you a conquest story from it. What is worse, some of them even are graphic chronicles of incestuous living. LOL.

Dear Vaagmi ji,

May be you can explain this from Bhagavata Purana:

Yagna was the son of Prajapathi Ruci and Akuti (the daughter of Svayambhuva Manu)..he had a twin sister called Dakshina.

Yagna was formally adopted by Akuti's father and then married to Dakshina.

Ok lets view this here..Yagna and Dakshina are twin brother and sister but Yagna is formally adopted by Akuti's father...so that changes the relationship of Yagna from brother of Dakshina to maternal uncle.

Then he is married to Dakshina.. but technically they were brother and sister..that too twins..but it seems that after the formal adoption the brother and sister relationship was totally annulled and it became maternal uncle and niece relationship and the marriage took place.

So in this story marriage between "maternal uncle" (former twin brother) and niece seemed to be sanctioned.


But actually when I read that story I was wondering may be its just symbolic that a Yagna has to be followed by a Dakshina so they had to be inseparable to start with..so made into twins and then we Hindus love to "marry" the Purusha Principle and the Prakriti principle and made Yagna and Dakshina into husband and wife.


So Vaagmi ji..since you are a Vaishava what is your view on this Puranic story..(I view it as symbolic no doubt)..but I want to know your view.

 

[biswa]

All religions of the world can do without a holybook. Go and ask the man on the street about his holy book. His knowledge will be just next to zero. He would be able to say only the name of his God as he has been told by his religion. Nothing more. Most of the holy books in existence irrespective of the religions are about conquests. You name it I can tell you a conquest story from it. What is worse, some of them even are graphic chronicles of incestuous living. LOL.

I agree with you. And I did not really intend to pick on the Vedas. Some of the stuff written thousands of years ago becomes irrelevant anyway. For example we do not do horse sacrifices any more. People drink a different kind of soma rasa.

However I think a distinct Hindu culture remains. By and large that is one of tolerance and co-existence. It it usually not of proselytism. I think some of the born-again Christians who visit this forum fail to understand that.

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

I agree with you. ........However I think a distinct Hindu culture remains. By and large that is one of tolerance and co-existence. It it usually not of proselytism. I think some of the born-again Christians who visit this forum fail to understand that.

Dear Sir,

I wish your claims are true. But many of our fellow-country-men whom i enquired have no clue about what hinduism is. moreover as regards tolerance and co-existence, there are numerous incidents in the past viz babri masjid demolition, brutal murder of an australian evangelist Graham Steward Steins, the mass persecution inflicted upon christians in orissa, the torching of churces in gujarat which have stained our nation, projected indians as intolerant and hence has made our claims of tolerance and peaceful co-existence insincere.

I really wonder how we can call ourselves tolerant repeatedly as many others in this forum are claiming in spite of such incidents which have painted us negatively in the eyes of the world.

I have met the born-again christians and i found them zealous and convinced about what they are preaching. they diligently read their scriptures, explore and investigate into its precepts. everyone has a testimony of why and how he/she believes what he/she believes. But i find few hindus reading the hindu scriptures which such diligence. someone in this forum stated hindu scriptures are not available in vernacular languages and hence hindus don't evince interest in their scriptures. that is not true. i have seen hindu scriptures translated in almost every indian language and available in plenty. there are book shops selling such books exclusively although they are few in number.

why are hindus not showing interest in reading the scriptures and trying to know what is written in them? why don't hindus inspire their fellow-hindus to know their scriptures. what is hindering hindus from showing interest in the scriptures? so what if it is written in sanskrit? why don't hindus learn sanskrit and read and understand the scriptures. there is plenty of treasure in the sanskrit slokas, mantras etc. why dont hindus explore and exploit those treasures? I really wonder!!!!!

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

Dear Sir,

.......Its us Hindus who do not take the trouble to know what we are reading..hence we have people who recite mantras without knowing the meaning.

Madam,

there exists an even more greater danger than this. there are some who belong to other religions, who have read hindu scriptures, have misinterpreted the sanskrit texts to corroborate their claims that even the hindu scriptures speak about their god. many gullible among hindus who do not know sanskrit, have fallen prey to their claims, have blindly accepted whatever they say without even trying to investigate into the truth of such claims. they are circulating many books on such subjects. they don't even bother to verify if the interpretations are true.

 

[rishikesan]

Mr.brahmac