Serious attempt at understanding Maya

[renuka]

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Dear Sravna,
This book I am reading has some good explanation with seems to hint at Maya and Reality. I typed this out for you to read..so that I too can remember it as I do so.

I hope you find our answers here.

"There are no external forms,
It is one's own mind that appears as the external.
Since they do not comprehend the mind,
The childish conceive of the conditioned phenomena.



Relatively entities exists,
Ultimately they have no nature,
When mistaking what has no nature,
It is the truth of the relative.



Based on mind only,
One will not impute external objects.
The one who observes purely,
Utterly transcends mind only as well.



When having transcended mind only,
Non-appearance is utterly transcended as well.
The Yogi who abides in non-appearance,
Sees the Great Vehicle.



Engagement is spontaneously accomplished and peaceful,
Thoroughly purified by aspirations.
To the sacred,selfless wakefulness,
There are no appearances and nothing is seen.


Having understood the nature of the mind,
Wakefulness will arise.



The learned understand the conditioned and the unconditioned,
When the perception of attributes has entirely collapsed.
All one remains beyond attributes,
All phenomena are perfectly understood to be empty.



"Existence" and "Non Existence" are both extremes,
"Clean" and "Unclean" are extremes as well.
Hence fully abandoning the extremes of both,
The learned do not even remain in the middle.



Inexpressible beyond the path of word and name,
The nature of phenomena resembles space.
Whenever that supreme way is realized,
Eloquent courage will likewise be inexhaustible.




Beautifully studded with the jewels
Of various reasonings and sutras.
May this be realized by those of subtle mind,
Through the profound sutras,that of Moonlamp and so forth,
May beings be endowed with the wealth of mind,
And may the stable ones train in fearlessness."

 

[renuka]

hi renu,

many buddhists theories are similar to advaita....like maya and soonyavada in buddhists too....so some say...ADi SHANKARAYA

IS CALLED PRACCHNNA BAUDDHAHA BY THE OPPONENTS.....

Padma Purana says that about Adi S...may be some Vaishnava wrote that!LOL

 

[sravna]

Dear Folks,

The reason that I find the concept of maya interesting because it suggests that there is more to reality than what we perceive and directly understand. It suggests that we need to understand events in a deeper way and not be taken in by the outward reality. We need to appreciate that there is something intelligent at work behind all the events and that there is a purpose to them. But our own interpretation of say actions of people focuses too much on the shallower aspects and we fail to be enlightened. So knowing that there is something intelligent like maya at work, we can understand our shallowness and refine our behavior. But the real elevation of the mind is a different thing.

 

[renuka]

. So knowing that there is something intelligent like maya at work, we can understand our shallowness and refine our behavior.

Dear Sravna,

Do we really need someone else or anything else to be there to let us know that we are ignorant/shallow? Why do we need Maya to even know this?

I am somehow reminded of this song:


Naan Oru Muttaalunga
Naan Oru Muttaalunga

Romba Nallaa Padichavanga, Naalu Peru Sonaanga
Naan Oru Muttaalunga

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

Do we really need someone else or anything else to be there to let us know that we are ignorant/shallow? Why do we need Maya to even know this?

Yes Renuka. We need to understand that reality is just not flesh and blood. It is about the spirit. Otherwise we would be totally blinded to the reality. Educating people of that would help them adhere to higher standards of thinking.

 

[renuka]

Perhaps we should ponder over the following from Gaudapada’s Karika on Mandoookyopanishad – Vaithathya Prakarna – II.32 :—

न निरोधो नचोत्पत्तिर्नबद्धो न च साधकः ।
न मुमुक्षुर्न वै मुक्त इत्येषा परमार्थता ॥ ७३

(na nirodho nacotpattirnabaddho na ca sādhakaḥ |
na mumukṣurna vai mukta ityeṣā paramārthatā || 73)


There is neither dissolution, nor birth; neither anyone in bondage, nor any aspirant for wisdom neither can there be anyone who hankers after liberation, not any liberated as such. This alone is the Supreme Truth. (II.K.32)

— Sri Gaudapada

.

Dear Sangom ji,

Similar expression is found in the Madhyamakalamakara.

It goes:


Those certain in the Vedanta,
See the world in the same way,
As one sees a dream, an illusion,
Or a city of the smell- eaters.

No cessation and no origination,
No bondage and no accomplishment,
No wish for liberation and no liberation,
This is indeed the ultimate.

Free from attachment,fear and anger,
Those capable ones have gone to the end of the Vedas.
See this non-conceptuality,
The non-dual,complete pacification of constructs.

 

[renuka]

Yes Renuka. We need to understand that reality is just not flesh and blood. It is about the spirit. Otherwise we would be totally blinded to the reality. Educating people of that would help them adhere to higher standards of thinking.

Dear Sravna,

High and low is our own mental creation.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

You are attached to the concept of "Higher standards of Thinking".

You are yet loading yourself when you are supposed to be unloading.

Just like you are attached to the concept of Superior Thinking..someone else might be attached to the concept of Inferior Thinking.

There is no difference in this..its shows bondage of the mind.

Both are holding on to a blade of grass thinking that would save them from drowning.

Both dont want to let go.

It seems to me you want to create a "new world".

"Realizing" Reality can NOT be taught. It's each person's individual discovery.

That is the only freedom everyone has..dont rob that.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

You are attached to the concept of "Higher standards of Thinking".

You are yet loading yourself when you are supposed to be unloading.

Just like you are attached to the concept of Superior Thinking..someone else might be attached to the concept of Inferior Thinking.

There is no difference in this..its shows bondage of the mind.

Both are holding on to a blade of grass thinking that would save them from drowning.

Both dont want to let go.

It seems to me you want to create a "new world".

"Realizing" Reality can NOT be taught. It's each person's individual discovery.

That is the only freedom everyone has..dont rob that.

Dear Renuka,

One cannot make someone realize reality but it is possible to make one understand it. That I think is necessary for an acceptable standard of behavior. An acceptable behavior is one that is not harmful to others. Don't you think that is desirable?

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

One cannot make someone realize reality but it is possible to make one understand it. That I think is necessary for an acceptable standard of behavior. An acceptable behavior is one that is not harmful to others. Don't you think that is desirable?

Dear Sravna,

When I was little kid in Kindergarten..the 3rd day of attending it I felt bored and walked out of class and walked home.

The teachers tried to stop me but I did not listen and walked home>much to the surprise of my mother.

The reason? I found it boring.I wanted to learn but did not want the feeling of being confined in a classroom.

My parents used to worry if I will ever study since I walked away from Kindergarten.

But I love studying and loved knowledge..its just that I never liked classrooms.

So you see a classroom concept of any kind only produces an acceptable standard of behavior as you rightly said...but whose standard?

It has to be someone's imposed standards on us.

Then we lose our individuality ..lose our freedom to seek the truth by our selves..we need not conform to any man made rules when it comes to spirituality.

Each country has laws..but how many are truly law abiding?

Crimes still go on..if a person is law abiding..its mainly becos he has fear and not becos he is truly good.

The true human is always a rebel of somekind.

Its the innate nature of humans to break free from any constricting rules..its this innate nature of breaking free that will eventually make us break free from the world and realize the Ultimate.

So I feel I will not desire any sort of implementation that will only produce so called Higher Standard of Thinking clones who are technically Brain Dead.

What say you?

 

[sravna]

Crimes still go on..if a person is law abiding..its mainly becos he has fear and not becos he is truly good.


What say you?

Yes Exactly, I am talking of a time when harming others is done without any sense of doing moral wrong. So anything that shows when people are doing wrong they are being masterminded to do the wrong and they are exhibiting freewill only they are rid of wicked notions

 

[renuka]

Yes Exactly, I am talking of a time when harming others is done without any sense of doing moral wrong. So anything that shows when people are doing wrong they are being masterminded to do the wrong and they are exhibiting freewill only they are rid of wicked notions

Dear Sravna,

Anyone of us could have been anyone in a previous life.For all you know being a serial killer itself could be part of the evolution in the Karmic scale.

Its hard to change the ways of the world.We can only stand and be a witness or resort to violence to end what we view as bad to mankind.

That is how wars started..each man wanted to impose his rule.

Any form of change finally resorts to violence.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

Anyone of us could have been anyone in a previous life.For all you know being a serial killer itself could be part of the evolution in the Karmic scale.

Its hard to change the ways of the world.We can only stand and be a witness or resort to violence to end what we view as bad to mankind.

That is how wars started..each man wanted to impose his rule.

Any form of change finally resorts to violence.

Dear Renuka,

Change really need not be brought about by physical violence. What it needs is force. It can be on the mind. It will be bloodless then and also peace will be more long lasting.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Change really need not be brought about by physical violence. What it needs is force. It can be on the mind. It will be bloodless then and also peace will be more long lasting.

Dear Sravna,

I give up..extreme desire of change of any kind is dangerous.

There is no need for "mass hypnosis" to change mankind.

Just imagine waves are hitting a shore..they come softly ..each leaving an imprint on the sands and gently go back.They go back with less intensity and fade into the ocean and eventually disappear.

That is how the human mind should be..waves..leaving its imprints and finally disappearing.

You on the other hand want a Tsunami!

Tsunami of any kind only brings destruction.

 

[biswa]

I knew that this thread would be a Mahabharata style dialogue between sravnaji and renukaji.

I have just one question. How can one understand maya fully if one is already part of it?

It is like being in the movie Matrix.

 

[renuka]

I have just one question. How can one understand maya fully if one is already part of it?

Dear Biswa ji,

Maya is like a female..no one really understands a female..not even the female herself.

But somehow males always want to attempt to decipher a female.

Males somehow are always curious of the feminine principle.

They spend their lives trying to get into what they came out from!LOL

So Maya has this effect on males I feel.

Tell me which Mataji talks about trying to decipher Maya?

Its always a Swamiji/Babaji that tries to talk about Maya whenever they have no answer for the questions of their Shisyas.

Maya is like the blaming the murder on the Butler!LOL

Dont know anything..blame Maya!

I hope you can understand now..that no one can really understand Maya but we all use the terminology to a great extent when we are intoxicated with ethanol or religion!

I have a question for you.

How do we know that Maya actually exists?

May be Maya is not actually even there and we were brainwashed to believe that Maya actually exists?

If something that can not be understood or deciphered and no one knows its origin ..then how come someone was able to detect it?

So may be the next thread should be "Does Maya Exists?"

Tune in for the next debate between Sravna and Renuka.

Dont miss it.