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such a long and lonely journey......

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R.Venkataramani said:
Rather I would prefer mercy killing.
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It may be ok according to your conscience. But, have you got the rights from that brain dead vegetating man on bed.. Has he given the rights to you to pull out the ventilator..If not, who else has given you the right to take someone's life?

Even if, does that man on bed has the right to authorize some one to take his life out, come what the reasons and justifications may be?If not, who else has given you the right to take someone's life, including the condemned prisoner?

Where is the value for human life.. Is that the reason, we enjoy watching TV and take it easy things as usual, with the head lines claiming the next day claiming proud that,'Bombay has come to normalcy after a shoot out of 200 souls or another 300 in blasts? Or just pass by an dying man on road accident, in the midnight without any change in our facial pre-set facial wrinkles, fearing that, stopping and helping out would add some more dangers to our loved one's residing inside the air conditioned limo?
 
Long and lonely Journey

To All; Rv's mercy killing is good concept,but how many people will accept it. But my mother was took this decision in the year 1983 when my father admited in a hospetal, she told me that just wait for twodays nothing will improve bring back to home let the end come at Home,that was happaned. from today night22.00 hrs ISTI am away from Chennai and goingto BEAS to attend Satsang of mymaster and I will back on 02.10.2009. Let TB.com carry more useful Topics and discuss, wish you all Vijayadhasami day greeatings. with regards. s.r.k.
 
As the title says clearly, "such a long and lonely journey', a query popped up in my mind.

1) Do we have the right to plug out the ventillator of our own mother, come what the medical expenses be?

2) Do we have the right to take some one's precious God given life, even if he had murdered one's own mother.

3) Who has given us the right to take some one's life, in a situation where we ourselves admit that, we are not the true owners of our current life''

We could get Pepsi in Andes and McDonalds in Tibet, and even got warehouses for vennai(butter), but still, we loose patience and shut the ventillator!
 
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Singleliner said:
We could get Pepsi in Andes and McDonalds in Tibet, and even got warehouses for vennai(butter), but still, we loose patience and shut the ventillator!
Click to expand...

a small input.

shutting the ventilator may not have anythingto do with patience at all.

artificial life support means the patient will have to remain on the life-support machine to be considered 'alive'.

'alive' technically means the person has a beating heart and is breathing.

in some cases the heart has stopped beating but due to the life-support machine it 'appears' that the man is breathing, because his lungs go up and down, due to the machine pumping in air.

i know someone who has told me several stories of how hospitals make money by cheating gullible people by making them beleive that a dead person is actually alive because he is 'breathing' (simply because of the machine pumping in air). And they charge abt Rs 2000 a day. The hospital keeps the body for 5-6 days like that, and then declares the body as dead. By this time they rake up a bill of abt Rs 10,000.

The ventilator simply is a money-making tool in such cases. And seems to be used very effectively for that purpose by a section of greedy people.
 
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Happy Hindu ji,

I fully agree with your views about artificial life support vs leaving to natural forces without it. In the olden days such artificial life support was not available. Today's medical facility provides all these things. If the person is going to be revived after few days of artificial life support than it is ok. If he cannot be revived but clinically alive means, there is no use.

Medical profession by and large has become highly unethical nowadays and as you rightly said a `dead' person will be kept in the hospital with artificial support for few days to extract money. However still there are good doctors and hospitals who are honest and sincere.

Most of the people cannot afford to keep their near & dear ones clinically alive. Even insurance companies will not pay for the claims. Best thing is to make the correct decision at the appropriate time. If we allow the patient to be clinically alive, he may also suffer more than the actual death.
 
Dear Srimathi HH Ji,

Yes, I was put in the position of deciding whether to 'pull the plug' on my dearest. I said 'yes' without hesitation. The only thought that drove me to say so was my knowledge of her self dignity and knowing that as intimately as I did, I had no other choice.

Regards,
KRS
 
folks,

these type of situations, as to whether to prolong indefinitely the respirator or the kidney machine, resolve themselves on their own.

i am surprised at this query from a viewpoint of morality, only because the issue is not a moral one.

these kinds of conceptual queries re pulling the plug, are more emotional i think, than well thought out due either through experience or through an understanding of the sadder stages of living ie death.

where i live, in canada, where medical insurance is universal and free, there is no financial constraints agains prolonging the lung function, providing oxygenized blood to the brain while the body is physically dead.

the question of what needs next to be done, often is a medical decision. the key issue being, can the person survive by him or herself. the medical profession, in such cases, recommends what would be the best course for the patient, and this is based on sympathy, understanding, experience and ofcourse, realities.

the respirator and such instruments, are stop gap measures, to see a patient through a critical phase. they are not the end in themselves.

one has to only see the range of current illnesses ie alzheimers, lou gherig's disease (ALS), various cancers etc to understand the complexity of medical treatment and cure.

to put all this under the context of 'right to pull the plug' is a simplistic way of interpreting a complex, heart wrenching situation.

if as i suspect single or such folks who share his views, have not experienced a real life situation, to go and talk to a hospital doctor, and get a more balanced and mature view of such life's agonies.
 
such a long and lonely journey

As committed by me, I tried to make some kind of a reply to this thread, many times. Every time I gave up the try in the fear that I may not add anything new to the thoughts expressed already. This is a thought provoking thread and many learned persons are respoding convincingly.
Simply, 'future' is a tense matter - hence a matter for linguist pundits, grammar teachers, etc. Only 'Present' is in our hands and Past was our experience and there will be no case as 'future', which is nothing but an extension of Present. The concept ‘tomorrow’ is like a swan (Annapparavai), which can be seen only in puranas and literatures. In my schooldays, I was taught that this will separate milk and water and consume only milk etc. Another Example .is : Today Cash; Tomorrow Credit. That tomorrow will never come.
But this tomorrow will definitely come, which is the crux of the issue. The question ‘When?’ worth a million. The reality at the time of death speak about the intrinsic quality of the individual. Anayasa maranam at the ripe stage is the quest of all jeevans. What happens depends on their bagyam and poorva punniyam etc. and nothing is in the hands of the individuals.
Leading a simple life, helpful to the society, remaining good at heart etc. are some tonics. Concentrating in present tense and taking care for tangible future financial requirements, exercise of will, proper nominations etc. are matters concerning material side, which also we cannot ignore. For the other side also, we are expected to be cautious and that is where one's character is shaped..
Once we are through in these things and we are ready for that journey mentally with bachelorhood, that is the state of vanaprastham, as explained in our system. Present tense to be enjoyed to the maximum extent, as tomorrow is not certain. Most of us end up with 'gruhasthan' stage.

According to our smruthis, this kaliyugam will exist for another one crore years minimum and there need not be any fear that the world will be over shortly.

If it is possible, better let us live to the extent possible, a life like Thomas Alva Edison, Madam curie (Radium inventor), our great rishies etc., depending on the capability of the individuals.

Without diluting the spirit of the subject, to focus on present tense, I reproduce a poem I recently read – Author: Jorge Luis Borges
“If I could live again my life,
In the next - I'll try,
- to make more mistakes,
I won't try to be so perfect,
I'll be more relaxed,
I'll be more full - than I am now,
In fact, I'll take fewer things seriously.....

I'll have more real problems - and less imaginary ones,
I was one of those people who liveprudent and prolific lives -
each minute of his life,
Of course that I had moments of joy - but,
if I could go back I'll try to have only good moments,

If you don't know – that’s what life is made of,
Don't lose the now! ...

If I could live again - I will travel light,
If I could live again - I'll try to work bare feet
at the beginning of spring till
the end of autumn,
I'll ride more carts,
I'll watch more sunrises and play with more children,
If I have the life to live - but now I am 85,
- and I know that I am dying ...
 
I wish to touch upon a point here , about GOD's creation !
Although being Uncertain about so many things - Life's aftermath , accountability factors , poorva janma punyam , etc etc...... I am happy with GOD about one thing ! , He has created something called the conscience which works 24 X 7 within every soul , he has created a dynamic BRAIN which can perform two different operations at the same time - one at front end and the other at the back end !
For example: look into the face of your boss and tell him , you're the best in making the choices , i have never seen anyone like you -- and within yourself the brain records the event with the lines - oh ! what a crazy choice the boss has made , i really don't know for how many years more , i need to be with this dumbo !

Two different thoughts of a man - only during very few instances the conscience ( background processor of the brain , agrees and registers without validating ! ) - The positive thinking habit is only responsible and enables us to register within ourself the virtues of kindness , compassion , taking life along a peaceful journey !

Life could be so simple if only we abide by principles , follow a certain rules and do not bring uneasiness into ourselves by enacting roles a totally different face , in contradiction to that we perceive within our internal self !
 
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Interesting thread. Here in Canada we have what is termed a living will, or personal directive. It is a legal document instructing doctors and family how to proceed in the cases of terminal illness. I am wondering if there is such a thing in India. If there isn't, even though it may not be legal, its still a good idea, even at a young healthy age. It could and often does take the decision away from relatives and medical staff and puts it back onto the individual.

Mine goes something like this. "Once my body gets to the point where it can no longer feed itself, and I am unable to communicate that I wish to be fed, I wish to have all outer intervention, including food IVs and food stopped. An exception is for light pain killers just to make my last days comfortable. I make this decision on my own volition."

I think everyone should consider writing one of these, just as you would have a will.

Aum Namasivaya
 
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eastern,

living in canada, i am familiar with and do have a living will. it makes a lot of sense.

it is the right thing to do, when we are in full control of our senses.

it takes certain burdensome decisions from our kith and kin, and enables us to take ownership of our destiny.

materialwise, it safeguards our lifetime wishes and ensures no interference from legal agencies or usurpers who may take advantage of our weaknesses to dupe our minds, without us being aware.

all in all, a great concept.

soundara,

thank you for such a sublime message.

i am going to mull on it for a while.

sir, i do apologize, for having penned anything that made you hesitant to pen a few words here.

i fervently hope that such stuff does not happen in the future.

there is a quote, 'publish and be damned'; as far as i am concerned, this forum takes a different approach, 'publish and engage'.

hoping to hear more from you soundara.

regards.. to soundara, eastern..
 
Recently in Newspaprs in India, there were a few articles and news items dealing on this, though not directly proclaiming so. I do not recollect the dates and have not kept them separately. But it was like this ----1) A staunch follower of Gandhiji,who was a medical doctor,and left earning practice to serve needy millions, under influence of Gandhiji, a nonagenarian or so, fell down in bathroom and became bedridden.He called his son and told that he should be allowed to die peacefull. His friends and prominent fellow Gandhians convinced his son about the will power of his father and asked him to allow the request. Only Gangajal was fed. After somedays, he breathed off peacefully. 2) A Jain Sanyasin took to the fasting-to- death when she was convinced that her samadhi is near. 3) There was an articel about 'Kasi Karvat"- a last resort in earth before departing to heaven.This was about the resting place in Varanasi,where terminally ill and who are expecting departure,are allowed to await death die peacefully,amidst chant of slokas,takng Gangajal.
For a traditional Hindu in India , it is understandable.
I am sorry that I have not preserved the newsclips. These were in English newspapers, within the recent 3-4 months.
 
The long and arduous journey

The poetic expression of Kunjuppuji is in fact a reality of life which many of us miss chasing shadows.Swami Sivananda beseeched everybody who is a spiritual aspirant to be alone, hungry and awake.The dictum of being alone is what is the central theme of the post which in fact stimulates philosophical moorings in everyone of us.To be hungry can be taken to be hungry for learning or even for nourishing the body to the minimum as ordained by Bhagawan in Geetha that Yoga cannot be attained by those who eat heavily or very frugally.Awake is to be aware of the Ultimate.

My happiness in finding such enlightenment among the members of the forum is unbounded.My pranams to everyone
 
There is an ocean of difference between solitude and loneliness.

No one on this earth, including the orphans, are alone. We need others and others need us. We depend on many others for our survival and similarly, many others around us depend us for survival. By survival I mean emotional, economical, spiritual and social survival.

No one has the right to wish death and preparing or anticipating it is not in tune with human nature.

But, not fearing death is what everyone shall imbibe in themselves. When the death comes, welcome it smilingly as you do with your bosom friend and do not hesitate to embrace it boldly with cool and composure.

When death is inevitable, it will come one day. No need to anticipate it or to make preparations for it.

As long as the death is not in sight, as long as the death has not come closer, we have to fulfil several obligations on this beautiful earth.

And finally, a person who is sure of living even after his death, does not fear death. In fact, death fears him and dares not to touch him.
 
At GOD's will , the soul gets into a new life and experiences the ups and downs in life .

The end also should be as per his consent !

Death sentence ? Who is man , after all a doll in the bommalaatam ! When he cannot control his own breath , how can he control end of other souls ????

A natural calamity , a death sentence , or by natural means should be pre-ordained by the supreme being !

Looking into the mass cleansing of population by earthquakes , floods , GOD would have either felt , he needs company of some good souls and would have decided to free them from their human life and give them moksha or would have felt that the presence of some of these erring souls could hamper the existence of other fellow humans and could create havoc for the rest of the world !

We all will get answers during the Judgement Day ( Pls refrain referring judges from Indian courts !)
 
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To Vijisesh, Every human can control his 21600 breaths and can live long .Saint Tirumoolar lived 3000 thousand years, how just contral his breath in meditation.If every day saving will be cr to your a/c. to Pannvalan sir ,It is the most importent for the preparations for the last Journy,because how to invite the death with Pain or Smile. The lonely journy is every day,no one knows when it will come,so Preparations is a most. s.r.k.
 
To esarkey ji : With due advance apologies and kind permission to go overboard !
The present day common man ( not a Yogi -- AYOGYAN !) cannot control the gas released from him and more often the trumpet blows at the wrong time !) , Leave alone controlling the breath !
Although many like thyself may have embarked on a new mission of controlling breath , believe me Breath control exercise - pranayams done at later stages in life will not help you to live a 100,000 years as many would have caused sufficient damages to their bodies before they attain their 40's !! ( by their sedentary life style !)
All the organs would have slowly reduced their functionality and YOGA may only help in healing the pain and that too , if practised with perseverance and consistency
On the other hand IF ONLY THE SAME CONSISTENCY AND DEDICATION PERSISTS IN THE LIFE OF A HUMAN FOR A CONTINUOUS PERIOD OF 20 YEARS , WITH LUCK SMILING AT HIM , HE WOULD HAVE TURNED INTO A SWAMIJI BY NOW !!
No Man becomes great in GOD's COURT by Living a Hundred years and controlling his breath for a 100,000 years but , he does by virtue of how BEST he utilizes his LIFE by deriving HAPPINESS out of What Less or More , he has been given by GOD and How is he perceived amongst his friends / companions in his Lifetime ! ( Pls do not reveal this to anyone - God specially told me , this secret !)
 
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to sri Vijisesh ji, To the breath control exercise one should have a perfect living Master, and the Master is a self realized soul,he will guide the breath control and I am sure a person can postponed his death for few years (Narmal 60 to 80). So a person need not become a swamiji but live a perfect Human and he maybe an example to others.For this one need total surrender to his Master. In this world every thing is possible and only thing to control Mind and focus and concenteration on eye center and turn around to INside. s.r.k.
 
namasthey kunjuppuji,

thanks for the nice thread of loneliness. your threads reminds the song of veedu varai uravu... veethi varai manaivi, kaadu varai pillai ,, kadaisi varai????
Remember we don't know how we were sent here, and after the end it means death another process will start it seems. who has sent us will call us back, so in the meantime without the memories of the sender we got annoyed and worried where to proceed. so don't worry he will take care!
 
Realising the meaning underlying your msg !

Alright Shri esarkey ji , i now understand what you mean !
You mean ... the Long and distant journey of life need not be so lonely if you learn the skills of controlling your breath , which can provide you with major advantages like :
a ) Helping you to control your thoughts , emotions and thereby your actions !
b) Giving sufficient time for relaxation of the mind thereby increasing the immunity of you internal system !
c) By increasing the patience level and reducing the hormones that lead to triggering your temper , anger , lust , greed etc .
( Pls be kind enough to list out any more advantageous other than the monetary benefits that are inclusive in the bundled offer !)

Thanks for stressing on the importance of breath control and I shall regularly practice kapal bhaatti , anulom vilom etc with dedication !


[email protected] said:
to sri Vijisesh ji, To the breath control exercise one should have a perfect living Master, and the Master is a self realized soul,he will guide the breath control and I am sure a person can postponed his death for few years (Narmal 60 to 80). So a person need not become a swamiji but live a perfect Human and he maybe an example to others.For this one need total surrender to his Master. In this world every thing is possible and only thing to control Mind and focus and concenteration on eye center and turn around to INside. s.r.k.
Click to expand...
 
Namassadhasae.

One short story (shortest story) written by Late Sujatha (Srirangam Rangarajan), a Tamil Brahmin Iyengar, many years ago in Tamil, worth mention in this thread, I feel.

From my memory, I reproduce the story in English. OK?. Story starts.
=
Halo -

Halo

Love sets in between a man and a women. They fell in love and had affair. The man after exploiting and using her, abandoned her.
She was made helpless and was living separate, with much hardship. One day, God appeared before her and offered her one boon.
The condition was only one boon will be given and she has to ask for the boon very intelligently, so that she will not suffer again.
The lady asked for sometime to express the boon she wants. She got subsequent extensions also. Finally she was ready to ask
the boon.

"Please permit me to go back to the period when I was a maid and I should not have in memory what all happened to me, after
that period.

God smiled and gave her the boon. She got her maidenhood and she became as such. Back to the pavilion.

......

Hallo

Hallo

=

Story ends here.

Readers may draw their own inferences.

"அவரவர் இச்சையில் எவை எவை உற்றவை அவை தருவித்தருள் பெருமாளே!"
_ திருவக்கரை திருப்புகழ்
 
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