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The defeat and retreat of Hinduism

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Interesting article by a Rabbi.

Rabbi says: Time To Give Up On God

On my walk to synagogue last Saturday, as I was getting ready to recite prayers in a foreign tongue, I suddenly thought to myself, “Maybe it’s time to give up on God!” I stopped for a moment and looked up, waiting for the lighting to strike.

But no, wait! I don’t mean give up on the being! No, no – not the concept, or the spirit, or the deity, or whatever you want to call it. Just the word, “G-O-D.” Maybe it’s time to drop the word. Because I think maybe it’s not doing us any good, anymore.

It sort of pains me to say this out loud. It pained me to think it. Because, as anyone who knows me will tell you, I am super into God. I mean, really – I’m a rabbi, for God’s sake! God is the organizing principle in my consciousness, the thing which gives my life meaning. The attempt to draw closer to God has pretty much been the central quest of my life for years. To be honest, even to think or say the word, “God” fills me with a sense of peace and strength. So to suggest that this word, which is so precious to me, should maybe retired from common usage, is not a thought I come by easily.

In fact, I’d prefer just the opposite. I wish everyone I knew felt totally comfortable using the word. Okay, here’s how I’d like it to work: I think it would be great if the word “God” was like a reference point for our all of our various attempts to have a similar kind of experience. We would all understand one another when we referred to this type of experience with that ever-so-familiar three-letter word. So the word would serve as a holding place, a way of pointing to something we couldn’t quite say. But we would all use the same word because we would recognize that there was something common in all of our experiences. So instead of “X,” or “whatever,” or ______, we would all fill in the blank with the word “God.” And that way, we could all talk about our “searches for God,” or “the comfort we drew from God,” or the ways that sometimes we felt the “absence of God” in our lives, and we would have a common language for that fundamental human experience that people sometimes call their “spiritual life.” When someone else was talking about God, even if they actually had very different particular beliefs, we would still feel a sense of recognition, and that would help us feel connected to this person. “I know just what this person must mean,” we might think, “I feel that way, too, sometimes. Or something similar, anyway. It’s hard to describe, of course, but let’s just agree to call it God.”

But whether I like it or not, that is just not the way the word God is used in the society I live in. Not usually, anyway. The word God, in our culture, is often taken as a particular reference to a particular image of a particular deity from the mythology of particular religions. In the most extremely particular version of this image, it is a huge old man in the sky with a long white beard who created the world and now sits around judging and punishing people. I mean, I suppose it’s possible that this may actually be what God means to some religious people. It is definitely what it means to many secular people. And so the word has become divisive – maybe the most divisive word in the English language. Especially when it’s used in that go-to question: “Do you believe in God?” And then it sounds like it just comes down to whether you’re with the Big Bearded Guy or against him. Pick a side.

Now, I will tell you that I, who consider myself a deeply religious person, certainly do not “believe in God” in that sense. And honestly, I really don’t think most religious people do. In fact, I don’t think any serious theologian ever has. Now, don’t get me wrong, many people of faith believe that God created the world, or that God wrote (or inspired the writing) of theBible, or that God watches over us all and answers our prayers, or all kinds of other things you might not believe. But ask one of them sometime if that God actually looks like that big fella painted on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. I’ll bet you the vast majority will shoot you a puzzled look, and quickly say, “No! Of course not! No one knows what God really looks like!” In fact, many of them will tell you firmly that God has no form at all.

And then there are those deeply spiritual people who might say they “believe in God,” but describe their God as a mysterious force or process operative in the universe; or a certain transcendent quality (like love, or beauty, or truth, or all of these combined); or the oneness and harmony of the universe; or simply: everything, all that is, is God. So when these people answer “Yes, I believe in God,” have they chosen a side? Are they religious or are they secular? (Ugh, maybe we need to drop those words, too, actually, now that I mention it…)

On the other hand, ask many secular people if they believe in God, and they will first flatly say, “No!” and then quickly add, “I mean, I believe in something.” And then often their “something” will sound a lot like one of the “spiritual” descriptions above. Or maybe it won’t. Maybe they’ll say, “No, I don’t believe in anything like that, but I do believe in the essential goodness of human beings and the undeniable obligation to fight for justice in the world.” Or, “I do believe that nature is magnificent and I feel a sense of wonder and awe when I walk though a forest or stare at a night sky.” Or, “I do believe in the transcendent beauty of humanity, as expressed through our creativity: art, industry, and technology.” Or simply, “I do believe that life is deeply meaningful.”



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So in my ideal world, “God” would be the word we used to refer to all of those descriptions – the religious, the spiritual, and the secular – of some feature of reality that is more than just the material world, but feels just as real, and is hard to describe. And precisely because it is indescribable, we would use a given word to refer to it. And so even though we would be referring to different things, even though I might be referring to an all-knowing creator and you were referring to the mysterious spirit you felt coursing through nature, we would each know that there was something familiar in what the other was saying. Of course we would each still have our own language for naming or describing the particulars of our experiences and, if we wanted to, we could talk about those differences. But “God” would be the word we used to refer to the shared experience.

This is the world I’d like to live in, because it is one in which I could share about my spiritual life with those around me, the way I share about my intellectual life, my professional life, maybe sometimes my emotional life.

But that is not the world I live in. In my world, the word “God” is so loaded, it carries so much baggage, that it makes people uncomfortable. It’s often used either aggressively, as if to say, “I’ve got the answer, and you ought to believe what I believe!”, or dismissively, as if to say, “What you believe is dumb and primitive! Get over it already!” And so many of us, understandably, would prefer it not be used at all in most settings. When the word is mentioned at a dinner table or a party, we wince, hoping the moment will pass without too much awkwardness or conflict. “God” has become a fighting word.

And at that point, maybe the word has lost its usefulness to us. Once language creates confusion and discord instead of communication and understanding, it has ceased to serve its purpose. If all it does is and pit us against one another, maybe it’s just time to retire the word “God.”

But I gotta say, I think it’s a shame to lose it. Because we can stop saying the word, but I don’t think we’re going to stop having spiritual experiences. That just seems to be a part of what makes us human. So it would be a pity if we had no language to talk about this part of our lives with anyone outside of a small circle of people who think exactly like us.

Maybe that’s what we need – a new kind of religious language. Or at least a new word.
But in the meantime, I must admit, I’ll probably keep using the word “God.” I just have to be able to talk about this mysterious thing I’m trying to find, and for now, I don’t have a better word for it. But I’m open to suggestions.

How about this? Let’s crowd-source! I hereby announce a contest, for the ‘Best New Way to Talk About God.’ Entries accepted below. The winner gets to be the Messiah. Or, at least, my hero.


Rabbi Says, "Time To Give Up On God"





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DAVID KASHERview all posts by David
Rabbi David Kasher is the Director of Education at Kevah, a Bay Area-based organization that helps people set up Torah-study groups in their homes, to take an hour out of their week for philosophical conversation and spiritual text study. He also lectures at Berkeley Law School, where he is getting a doctorate in Legal Philosophy. He is big on God, plaid shirts, and West Coast hip-hop.



 
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Dear Ash,

I have no problems if someone says they had seen God.

But what really matters is testing our own selves.

Letting go of the God concept is a test for our own selves.

Can we live as a Niraashraya?( a person who does not depend on anything?)

Believing in the the God concept is a pillar of support..can we manage without the God concept?

It can be scary to even think of it..its like a child learning how to walk and lets go of any support to try stand on his/her feet.

If we do not falter and take the first bold step how can we even know anything?

Giving up the God Concept is not being a Non Believer or being arrogant....its all about being brave to face everything that comes our way totally on our own.

Total freedom can actually be scary..but no harm tasting it.

Dear Madam,

I think this is an aberration...You will experience new found freedom...But unfettered freedom has its consequences...Knowing you in this forum, I am sure you will return back...Hinduism is a vast ocean..It is not dogmatic...There are various paths you can follow based on your inclination...Good luck..Thanks
 
Dear Madam,

I think this is an aberration...You will experience new found freedom...But unfettered freedom has its consequences...Knowing you in this forum, I am sure you will return back...Hinduism is a vast ocean..It is not dogmatic...There are various paths you can follow based on your inclination...Good luck..Thanks

Dear Sir,

I am like Vijay's Punch dialogue:

Once I make up my mind I wont even listen to my own self!LOL

BTW sir..I am not lost..so I do not have to return to Hinduism.
 
Its really not easy to give up the God concept.

My mum keeps saying she is not into rituals etc blah blah but when I bought a new car a couple of months back she wanted me to take it to the temple for the new vehicle ritual.

Then I asked her" how come now you believe in rituals?"

Then all hell broke lose! She was mad with me saying that "you are not the only one who will be sitting in the car so shut up and take it to the temple"


So you see somehow everyone is afraid to let go of anything even though they might claim to say they do not believe in rituals.
 
Dear Renuka,

You know something. Being oneself is the most challenging thing to do. Most of the times we are not ourselves and think and act in certain ways because of others. Even though it may sound you are giving up on God, as a believer I am happy that you have come to the right understanding of how to improve one's self. The fact that you arrived at this decision to me seems your real self is surfacing.
 
Dear Renuka,

You know something. Being oneself is the most challenging thing to do. Most of the times we are not ourselves and think and act in certain ways because of others. Even though it may sound you are giving up on God, as a believer I am happy that you have come to the right understanding of how to improve one's self. The fact that you arrived at this decision to me seems your real self is surfacing.

Dear Sravna,

Thanks for understanding what I am really trying to get it.

Yes you are right..being oneself is the most challenging thing to do.

Its not easy to give up what we held on so long especially to face the reaction from family.

You start to wonder if you are making the wrong decision or even being ungrateful but we have the make the decision one day and try to face everything on our own.

Nope...I am not giving up on God...I have just given up the concept of God. I am not an Atheist and neither am I an agnostic and neither do I want to profess any religion.

The word God itself is self limiting and binding.

I made the decision to give up the concept of God yesterday and I know there is no looking back for me.


I want to taste freedom..I could be wrong or right..just want to be brave enough to break free.
 
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Dear Ash,

I have no problems if someone says they had seen God.

But what really matters is testing our own selves.

Letting go of the God concept is a test for our own selves.

Can we live as a Niraashraya?( a person who does not depend on anything?)

Believing in the the God concept is a pillar of support..can we manage without the God concept?

It can be scary to even think of it..its like a child learning how to walk and lets go of any support to try stand on his/her feet.

If we do not falter and take the first bold step how can we even know anything?

Giving up the God Concept is not being a Non Believer or being arrogant....its all about being brave to face everything that comes our way totally on our own.

Total freedom can actually be scary..but no harm tasting it.

Smt. Renuka,

What you have written above is very much the gist of discussions between my wife and my wife, about religion, and this happens occasionally. (But my efforts have been only partly successful so far.)

I tell that if god is clung to, it only fosters a kind of parasitic tendency and all the ills, difficulties, problems, etc., faced in life are ascribed to the will of the god and that god is sought to be presented, by means of various kinds of prayers, to help us and save us from all those difficulties. One's own role or culpability, in having brought all those problems, difficulties, ills, etc., are swept under the carpet (of the prayer room - figuratively) and god becomes a guardian very much like father/mother for a toddler. It is this very dependency which religions in general (and our hindu religion, in abundance) aim at fostering in the minds of the followers.

If one is prepared to accept responsibility for all the negativities which one comes across in life, attributing all those to Karmas, or by means of any kind/s of arguments - other than an externalized god - which may convince his/her individual mind and intellect, then it is possible to let go of the god concept; but I doubt whether this Rabbi David Kasher is sincere in whatever he has reportedly written.

Most people, and more so, women, do not want to admit, even to their own internal selves that their misfortunes are caused by their own deeds, their own past Karmas, and that is why they prefer very much to shift all responsibility to "god", by means of statements like, "god is testing my faith!", "god seems to like me, so he is taunting me!" and so on. Menfolk are also not far behind; when a person meticulously does everything to project himself to the outside world as a very highly devoted, religious, orthodox follower of this or that religion, even his inner mind will refuse to accept the argument that he must be carrying a truck load of extremely bad Karmas and that is why he is suffering so much on various fronts.

The above are stages of immaturity of the Karmic loads propelling such people. And it is this immaturity which possibly causes this unceasing "samsaara", according to me. Thus, in a curious way, the god concept & samsaara are like the yin-yang combination, each one nurturing the other.
And, that is the (pathetic) secret one will see if one is able to throw away this god concept, accept the role of Karma and, get out, even from the very strongly binding notion of "I" at least on occasions, even if it is not possible to do so permanently, since our worldly life requires this physical body very much and some amount of this "I" will always be required for safe-keeping of the body.
 
Dear Sangomji,

Agreed with what you wrote but right now I am not planning to even think of Karma.

It has to be one or all here.

I can't pick and choose to reject the concept of Religion and God but hold on to the concept of Karma.

So that is why I said earlier that I want to be myself..I don't know the past..I don't know the future and I only know the present.

Karma will not come into the picture if we concentrate only on the present.
 
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Dear Sangomji,

Agreed with what you wrote but right now I am not planning to even think of Karma.

It has to be one or all here.

I can't pick and choose to reject the concept of Religion and God but hold on to the concept of Karma.

So that is why I said earlier that I want to be myself..I don't know the past..I don't know the future and I only know now.

Karma will not come into the picture if we concentrate only on the present.

Smt. Renuka,

Unlike what you possibly think Karma is a later import into hinduism and it exists without god and hinduism, even in the 'unvedic' Buddhist and Jain philosophies. The present moment is what determines our whole life, and thence the samsaara and Karma is very very relevant to the infinite series of "present moments" also. But it is our inability that we cannot complete thought processes within single "present moments".

Just as whether you believe in gravity or not, gravity will always be working, irrespective of whether you decide to cling to religion & god or leave them, Karma will follow each one of us in every one of our present moments. That is the mysterious power of truth.
 
Dear Sangomji,

Agreed with what you wrote but right now I am not planning to even think of Karma.

It has to be one or all here.

I can't pick and choose to reject the concept of Religion and God but hold on to the concept of Karma.

So that is why I said earlier that I want to be myself..I don't know the past..I don't know the future and I only know now.

Karma will not come into the picture if we concentrate only on the present.

I am no expert but what Karma just means action. Today we are what we did yesterday and Tomorrow we will be what we do today. So yesterday, today and tomorrow are relative and only thing that remains is Karma - our actions. I say this because i have been to the streets due to inaction from my end. But I still believe God can make us act in a better way and thankful for what we got.

Renuka Maam,
But what about birth and death? Who decides what , where and how we are born? SUch as being born as an Indian or AMerican or whatever? Scientifically is there any explanation or books that dig deeper in this theory?
 




Just as whether you believe in gravity or not, gravity will always be working, irrespective of whether you decide to cling to religion & god or leave them, Karma will follow each one of us in every one of our present moments. That is the mysterious power of truth.


Dear Sangom ji,

Agreed..but we have the option not to think of it isn't it?

Just like we go about walking and do not stop to think of gravity..so life can go on without thinking of Karma too.
 
Renuka Maam,
But what about birth and death? Who decides what , where and how we are born? SUch as being born as an Indian or AMerican or whatever? Scientifically is there any explanation or books that dig deeper in this theory?


Dear Sir,

Birth is when two organisms (if we are talking about multicellular organisms like mammals) decide to gun it and Lo behold there is continuation of species a.k.a birth!

Death is when the cerebrovascular and cardiovascular system ceases to function.

Beings are born to those who decided to gun it..if 2 Americans gun it..they get an American kid.

If 2 Indians are gunning it and hope to get a green card even then they will still get an Indian kid.

No need to think too hard.


Science makes you think only to a certain extent ...religion makes you confused..so at the end of the day we might never ever know all answers..but big deal yaar..cos there is actually no exam!LOL
 
Dear Sangom ji,

Agreed..but we have the option not to think of it isn't it?

Just like we go about walking and do not stop to think of gravity..so life can go on without thinking of Karma too.

Doctor Ma'm,

Forget Karma for the moment. I suggest you go to some Mamak stall or Indian restaurant and enjoy some Roti Canai and Veg Kurma. Kurma is anyday more delicious than Karma. When I bought my car, I took it to the Lemont Hindu remple, paid $50 to some priest who drew a ghastly swastika on the rear glass. Not the inverted swastika, but the Hindu/ Jain one. I had to do it at my uncle and aunt's behest.

My cousin said "I would remove that symbol right now if I were you". I ignored her and continued driving. When I was home, someone had scratched the words 'Jew hater' and some obscenity..I had to get it removed by spending a tidy sum.

The religion is full of symbols and rituals, true spirituality seems to have disappeared from Hinduism long back. I'm glad I've always been an agnostic, so it's not been too difficult for me to be free of organized "religion" of any sort. I can understand how you must be feeling after having rid yourself of the shackles.
 
Surely sir,

Have Gun Will Travel!

Quick Gun Murugun..

Seriously, the sole officially "Hindu" country of Nepal threw away its king (whose 'rajaguru' is the Kanchi Sankaracharya acc. tradition) and along with it Hinduism too. A case of throwing the baby out with the bath water. The Nepalese people have taken it all in their stride and are now comfortably free of organized religion and seem to be doing rather well for themselves.
 
Say 'Tanah Telur' to the illegal Indonesian waiter meh..



Surely mah I can tell but mana ada Roti Canai tak de Telur?

everything comes pre frozen these days with telur..

So you suka telur goreng or telur rebus?? what's the menu??Sambal Sotong??LOL
 
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Surely mah I can tell but mana ada Roti Canai tak de Telur?

everything comes pre frozen these days with telur..

So you suka telur goreng or telur rebus?? remember the menu??Sambal Sotong etc!LOL

The members here are so kiasu lor, forget boiled or fried eggs, give them udang sambol prasadam!
 
Ash,

Sambal udang??

You nak kena teruk nanti! Kalau mereka tau.

Ente priyappetta aashe,

enikku vaiyaa. Ee Renukachechchiyuda kusruthi sakikkaan vaiyaa. Ippo malaayilum thudangikkazhinju. Ende deivame Guruvayurappa, rakshikkane. Ninakku enTe anchiratti thenge samarppikkaam. Ente Guruvayurappa. Rakshikkane.
 
Ente priyappetta aashe,

enikku vaiyaa. Ee Renukachechchiyuda kusruthi sakikkaan vaiyaa. Ippo malaayilum thudangikkazhinju. Ende deivame Guruvayurappa, rakshikkane. Ninakku enTe anchiratti thenge samarppikkaam. Ente Guruvayurappa. Rakshikkane.

athonnum paRanjiTTu valiya kAryamilla mAshE! iviTe ellArum thulyar, pakShe chilar immiNi kUtuthal thulyar ennANu paNDE thoTTuLLa niyamam. guruvAyUrappanu pOlum ithonnum mARRAn kazhiyumO ennu samSayamA, kETTO!
 
athonnum paRanjiTTu valiya kAryamilla mAshE! iviTe ellArum thulyar, pakShe chilar immiNi kUtuthal thulyar ennANu paNDE thoTTuLLa niyamam. guruvAyUrappanu pOlum ithonnum mARRAn kazhiyumO ennu samSayamA, kETTO!

A new Malaysian & Keralite group has taken over the website and creating a ruckus????

Is it a Trojan?

Let us scan the web sites and get it purged from all vulnerabilities ...LOL ...
Z
 
Ash,

Kau faham tak Bahasa Malayalam?

Apa Vaagmi ji dan Sangom Ji tulis?? Kalau kamu faham bagi tau Ok.
 
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