sesh, vivekam,
i hope i can atleast explain where i am coming from. perhaps it will give you an appreciation of the development of my thought process. whether you agree with it or not, is immaterial.
to start off, i agree with your analysis of the issues. these are blatantly open for anyone to see. where i part, is the method of resolution.
re ayodhya temple: it is now no longer a religious issue. i do not know if it ever was. once something is usurped into the realm of politics, there is no peaceful resolution.
if one group builds the temple, it is an open target for another group (need not necessarily be muslims here, and that is a key point) to demolish it. we are starting a never ending source of violence and a perpetual festering sore in our psyche.
re happy's request for clarification: i simply do not know the answer. perhaps there is no answer. till such time comes, when we in india, become a overall irreligious community, where one's religion is recognized but not a source of division, it is best to let those sleeping dogs lie. status quo for the foreseeable future. no temple. no mosque.
i abhor instigated, political or religious, violence. for in the end, it consumes those who started it. what i find disturbing, is this exhortion to violence, by some of us here, in the name of reclaiming 'hindu india' or asserting our long lost rights.
i look upon history as a lesson of the past. those who do not learn from the past mistakes, are bound to repeat them.
one example: the concept of hindu unity. how can there be unity, when we are divided into castes? what about 25% who are outside of the caste hierarchy? i do not believe that these divisions are the creations of our past conquerors. these are divisions from within, and these division make a mockery of any call to 'hindu unity'.
perhaps, we as tamil brahmins can set an example. eschew our aloofness from the tamil society, and work hard to ingriate ourselves into the tamil mainstream. this topic can be separate thread by itself, and so i shall leave it just with this statement.
re higher birthrate of the muslims. it is a free country. the 1 child policy adopted by china, will not simply work in india. those are short term solutions, with disastrous long term effects, as china is coming to realize it.
let us look at this issue from another angle. if you tell the muslim to stop having large families, he comes to realize this as a potent force against you. the more he is deprived of upward mobility and nurtures a sense of resentment, the more kids he will have, just to spite. he has nothing to lose.
the other alternative ofcourse, is for brahmins and other hindu folks, to return to having large families like their grandfathers. i do not know if there will be any takers to this offer.
so vivekam, sesh, you see, what i have done, is to step through the consequences, in my own limited manner, and come to some conclusions. i try to be as dispassionate about the results. i might not necessarily even like them. but i find myself unable to deny the process of logical thought.
sesh, i do not think i am of the 'victimised mentality'. in fact i do not wish to label anyone, nor wish to be labeled.
sesh, i bring up historical precedence, only because there is lessons for us. just imagine, if prithviraj teamed up with jayachandra to ward of mohammed gazni? have we learned anything from that single incident?
we berate the british. but i think, as hindus, we were relieved they came. to replace the muslims. barring 1857, no one thought of presenting a united front against the white folks. even the indian national congress was a creation of white men.
we now have a framework of governance in india. with laws. sometimes they are flouted, but overall there is this respect for the law and its enforcement. we have peaceful transfer of power. i think it is good for india, if thinking folks, do their best, to strenghten these institution through the prescribed processes.
one other thing. the cream of muslim society opted for pakistan in 1947. the muslims, in essence have no leadership or role models (barring hindi movies). if we have so much fears that they are being pampered, we should see the results in our daily life - by the proliferation of engineers, doctors, executives and administrators.
i may be wrong, but i think, in these critical areas of influences, the muslims are way smaller than what their numbers would suggest. it is also interesting to remember, that in their communal psyche, they remember that they once ruled hindustan. and did their best, to get the reins of power handed back to them, when the british left.
i do not want to appear apologetic or excuse prone here. i think what i am stating is immediate factual history. the net result of any history lesson, is that it is a sum of accumulated wrongs. it is a heavy baggage. a furtherance of thought along those lines, leads to a perpetual sense of grievance, alienation and aggression.
vivek, sesh, all i am trying to do, is for us tamil brahmins, not to fall into this trap. let us evoke the best of our tradition, work towards integrating ourselves back into the tamil society. consider ourselves tamils first and then brahmins. it will be for the good of our children.
more as we progress.
thank you.
i hope i can atleast explain where i am coming from. perhaps it will give you an appreciation of the development of my thought process. whether you agree with it or not, is immaterial.
to start off, i agree with your analysis of the issues. these are blatantly open for anyone to see. where i part, is the method of resolution.
re ayodhya temple: it is now no longer a religious issue. i do not know if it ever was. once something is usurped into the realm of politics, there is no peaceful resolution.
if one group builds the temple, it is an open target for another group (need not necessarily be muslims here, and that is a key point) to demolish it. we are starting a never ending source of violence and a perpetual festering sore in our psyche.
re happy's request for clarification: i simply do not know the answer. perhaps there is no answer. till such time comes, when we in india, become a overall irreligious community, where one's religion is recognized but not a source of division, it is best to let those sleeping dogs lie. status quo for the foreseeable future. no temple. no mosque.
i abhor instigated, political or religious, violence. for in the end, it consumes those who started it. what i find disturbing, is this exhortion to violence, by some of us here, in the name of reclaiming 'hindu india' or asserting our long lost rights.
i look upon history as a lesson of the past. those who do not learn from the past mistakes, are bound to repeat them.
one example: the concept of hindu unity. how can there be unity, when we are divided into castes? what about 25% who are outside of the caste hierarchy? i do not believe that these divisions are the creations of our past conquerors. these are divisions from within, and these division make a mockery of any call to 'hindu unity'.
perhaps, we as tamil brahmins can set an example. eschew our aloofness from the tamil society, and work hard to ingriate ourselves into the tamil mainstream. this topic can be separate thread by itself, and so i shall leave it just with this statement.
re higher birthrate of the muslims. it is a free country. the 1 child policy adopted by china, will not simply work in india. those are short term solutions, with disastrous long term effects, as china is coming to realize it.
let us look at this issue from another angle. if you tell the muslim to stop having large families, he comes to realize this as a potent force against you. the more he is deprived of upward mobility and nurtures a sense of resentment, the more kids he will have, just to spite. he has nothing to lose.
the other alternative ofcourse, is for brahmins and other hindu folks, to return to having large families like their grandfathers. i do not know if there will be any takers to this offer.
so vivekam, sesh, you see, what i have done, is to step through the consequences, in my own limited manner, and come to some conclusions. i try to be as dispassionate about the results. i might not necessarily even like them. but i find myself unable to deny the process of logical thought.
sesh, i do not think i am of the 'victimised mentality'. in fact i do not wish to label anyone, nor wish to be labeled.
sesh, i bring up historical precedence, only because there is lessons for us. just imagine, if prithviraj teamed up with jayachandra to ward of mohammed gazni? have we learned anything from that single incident?
we berate the british. but i think, as hindus, we were relieved they came. to replace the muslims. barring 1857, no one thought of presenting a united front against the white folks. even the indian national congress was a creation of white men.
we now have a framework of governance in india. with laws. sometimes they are flouted, but overall there is this respect for the law and its enforcement. we have peaceful transfer of power. i think it is good for india, if thinking folks, do their best, to strenghten these institution through the prescribed processes.
one other thing. the cream of muslim society opted for pakistan in 1947. the muslims, in essence have no leadership or role models (barring hindi movies). if we have so much fears that they are being pampered, we should see the results in our daily life - by the proliferation of engineers, doctors, executives and administrators.
i may be wrong, but i think, in these critical areas of influences, the muslims are way smaller than what their numbers would suggest. it is also interesting to remember, that in their communal psyche, they remember that they once ruled hindustan. and did their best, to get the reins of power handed back to them, when the british left.
i do not want to appear apologetic or excuse prone here. i think what i am stating is immediate factual history. the net result of any history lesson, is that it is a sum of accumulated wrongs. it is a heavy baggage. a furtherance of thought along those lines, leads to a perpetual sense of grievance, alienation and aggression.
vivek, sesh, all i am trying to do, is for us tamil brahmins, not to fall into this trap. let us evoke the best of our tradition, work towards integrating ourselves back into the tamil society. consider ourselves tamils first and then brahmins. it will be for the good of our children.
more as we progress.
thank you.
Last edited:
