Raji Ram
Active member
idhu vERayA?? :lol: (ref: bold letters in quote)
And..... too much confusion in finding the fusion! Please try to learn properly about rAgams.
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Think or sink!
- Thread starter Visalakshi Ramani
- Start date
And..... too much confusion in finding the fusion! Please try to learn properly about rAgams.
tks
0
This thread contains interesting information, thanks to Smt VR for finding many interesting items to share with members here. I decided to share my thoughts here now.
Today I found that this thread may have been used for its unintended purposes.
1. The age old question often debated, including in this forum elsewhere as well is - "Did Rama worship Siva at Rameswaram? "
Answer 1 - Who cares? why care? Only delusional devotees will care for such things because if one leverages one's Viveka and understands what
So we must answer the religiously inclined often deluded devotee's perspective (let me use abbreviation DD for short). I do not want to deal with any actual DD so the disclaimer is that it does not refer to any specific member here though people doing self identification is not in my control!
2. DD - show me proof ? Valmiki Ramayana is the authority about Rama - show where it says Rama worshipped Siva
Answer 2 - You are right that Valmiki Ramayana does not say anywhere that Rama worshipped Siva.
However you may know that Ramayana comprises about 24000 verses and there is another scripture called 'Yoga Vasistha' that is about 32000 verses and also authored by Valmiki.
Yoga Vasistha is teaching of Vedanta to Sri rama by his Guru (Rishi) Vasishta, through many dramatic stories. It comprises of six chapters.
In the Nirvana Prakarana, in part 1, Vasishta who teaches about Lord Siva as well as describe how he worshipped Lord Siva. He goes on to talk about his conversation with Lord Siva one day after which Vasishta talks about how his mode of worship and devotion to the Lord Siva changed as a result of his encounter with Lord Siva. This description of conversation with Lord Siva goes on for many verses. Rama was taught early on about worshipping Siva and it was described by Valmiki.
3. DD - That is no proof at all. How do we know it is the same Valmiki, how do we know it is the same Rama?
Answer 3 - You have to understand that Ramayana is a Itihasa ("it happened this way") and is not a history document.
In fact the Hinduism is not a History centric religion. History & record keeping is an alien idea to Hindus.
Taking scriptures such as Ramayana and arguing about some historical accuracy is for losers.
The scripture teaches us about what it means to lead a life of Dharma. If tomorrow the entire plot was somehow shown to be incorrect the value of Ramayana is not diminished by one iota.
The biblical religions are entirely based on specific historical figures and their actions. They will be lost if somehow it was shown that the history is wrong. This is not the case for Hinduism.
Reasonable people will agree that Ramayana was based on a historical figure but Ramayana was written embellishing the facts to make it more interesting. Just because it mentioned a Vimanam does not mean it is a definitive proof that there were planes those days. The strength of our scriptures is that they are not historical documents.
4. DD - What do you have against history? Key facts such as Rama worshipping Siva at Rameswaram is not described in Valmiki Ramayana. It is afterall about a historical person and his actions. Why would it leave this out? It must be a latter day addition.
Answer 4 History is created by human intellect and is limited in its scope. The teaching of Vedas (knowledge sections) embedded in Mahabharatha, Ramayana, Yoga Vasishta do not have origin in human intellect but revealed by intuition of Rishis (and verifiable by us today, so they are not delusions) . The teaching part has value for our growth here and now.
The historical facts are irrelevant and could be even wrong.
Assuming that a DD wants to take this Valmiki Ramayana as source for history, it is not clear why it should be considered authoritative. After all it has been handed down over many eons and it is possible sections could have been deleted in the transmission.
Similarly we do not know why Rameswaram has large number of Siva temples and hardly any temple for Sri Rama ( I can be corrected but that is my recollection from visiting the place in mid 1970s).
If there is a belief in Valmiki Ramayana as representation of facts, then there is nothing to say it is superior to practice of Siva worship and historical stories associated with Rameswaram temples.
5. DD - The story that Rama worshipping Siva is offensive to some of the Vaishnavites though they have nothing against Siva.
Answer 5 OK, then do not believe those stories. Let others believe what they want. You tell what you want to followers of your tradition. Let others say what they want. Hinduism can accommodate all kinds of ideas. But reflect on this. The rituals and various decorations we put on are only useful when the significance of the rituals and the decorations (Namam etc) have a significance to our personal growth to be closer to Isvara.
There is a danger that 'historical facts' of stories, and traditions can easily make a fake person . This is a historical problem and well articulated by a poet over 1000 years ago. Let me provide the words of the poet about such people. Do not become one such person.
நட்டகல்லைத் தெய்வமென்றுநாலுபுஷ்பந் சாத்தியே
சுற்றிவந்து முணமுணென்றுசொல்லு மந்திரம் ஏதடா
நட்டகல்லும் பேசுமோ நாதனுள்ளிருக்கையில்
சுட்டசட்டி சட்டுவம்கறிச்சுவை அறியுமோ
சட்டையிட்டு மணிதுலங்கும் சாத்திரச் சழக்கரே
பொத்தகத்தை மெத்தவைத்துப் போதமோதும் பொய்யரே
நிட்டைஏது ஞானமேது? நீரிருந்த அட்சரம்
பட்டைஏது? சொல்லீரே பாதகக் கபடரே?
6. DD - These poems convey nothing - and You are egotistical and out of control!
Answer 6 May Lord Rama give you peace of mind!! OM
Today I found that this thread may have been used for its unintended purposes.
1. The age old question often debated, including in this forum elsewhere as well is - "Did Rama worship Siva at Rameswaram? "
Answer 1 - Who cares? why care? Only delusional devotees will care for such things because if one leverages one's Viveka and understands what
- Rama (Personification of Dharma among other attributes) and
- Siva (personification of change/Time, auspiciousness among other attributes)
So we must answer the religiously inclined often deluded devotee's perspective (let me use abbreviation DD for short). I do not want to deal with any actual DD so the disclaimer is that it does not refer to any specific member here though people doing self identification is not in my control!
2. DD - show me proof ? Valmiki Ramayana is the authority about Rama - show where it says Rama worshipped Siva
Answer 2 - You are right that Valmiki Ramayana does not say anywhere that Rama worshipped Siva.
However you may know that Ramayana comprises about 24000 verses and there is another scripture called 'Yoga Vasistha' that is about 32000 verses and also authored by Valmiki.
Yoga Vasistha is teaching of Vedanta to Sri rama by his Guru (Rishi) Vasishta, through many dramatic stories. It comprises of six chapters.
In the Nirvana Prakarana, in part 1, Vasishta who teaches about Lord Siva as well as describe how he worshipped Lord Siva. He goes on to talk about his conversation with Lord Siva one day after which Vasishta talks about how his mode of worship and devotion to the Lord Siva changed as a result of his encounter with Lord Siva. This description of conversation with Lord Siva goes on for many verses. Rama was taught early on about worshipping Siva and it was described by Valmiki.
3. DD - That is no proof at all. How do we know it is the same Valmiki, how do we know it is the same Rama?
Answer 3 - You have to understand that Ramayana is a Itihasa ("it happened this way") and is not a history document.
In fact the Hinduism is not a History centric religion. History & record keeping is an alien idea to Hindus.
Taking scriptures such as Ramayana and arguing about some historical accuracy is for losers.
The scripture teaches us about what it means to lead a life of Dharma. If tomorrow the entire plot was somehow shown to be incorrect the value of Ramayana is not diminished by one iota.
The biblical religions are entirely based on specific historical figures and their actions. They will be lost if somehow it was shown that the history is wrong. This is not the case for Hinduism.
Reasonable people will agree that Ramayana was based on a historical figure but Ramayana was written embellishing the facts to make it more interesting. Just because it mentioned a Vimanam does not mean it is a definitive proof that there were planes those days. The strength of our scriptures is that they are not historical documents.
4. DD - What do you have against history? Key facts such as Rama worshipping Siva at Rameswaram is not described in Valmiki Ramayana. It is afterall about a historical person and his actions. Why would it leave this out? It must be a latter day addition.
Answer 4 History is created by human intellect and is limited in its scope. The teaching of Vedas (knowledge sections) embedded in Mahabharatha, Ramayana, Yoga Vasishta do not have origin in human intellect but revealed by intuition of Rishis (and verifiable by us today, so they are not delusions) . The teaching part has value for our growth here and now.
The historical facts are irrelevant and could be even wrong.
Assuming that a DD wants to take this Valmiki Ramayana as source for history, it is not clear why it should be considered authoritative. After all it has been handed down over many eons and it is possible sections could have been deleted in the transmission.
Similarly we do not know why Rameswaram has large number of Siva temples and hardly any temple for Sri Rama ( I can be corrected but that is my recollection from visiting the place in mid 1970s).
If there is a belief in Valmiki Ramayana as representation of facts, then there is nothing to say it is superior to practice of Siva worship and historical stories associated with Rameswaram temples.
5. DD - The story that Rama worshipping Siva is offensive to some of the Vaishnavites though they have nothing against Siva.
Answer 5 OK, then do not believe those stories. Let others believe what they want. You tell what you want to followers of your tradition. Let others say what they want. Hinduism can accommodate all kinds of ideas. But reflect on this. The rituals and various decorations we put on are only useful when the significance of the rituals and the decorations (Namam etc) have a significance to our personal growth to be closer to Isvara.
There is a danger that 'historical facts' of stories, and traditions can easily make a fake person . This is a historical problem and well articulated by a poet over 1000 years ago. Let me provide the words of the poet about such people. Do not become one such person.
நட்டகல்லைத் தெய்வமென்றுநாலுபுஷ்பந் சாத்தியே
சுற்றிவந்து முணமுணென்றுசொல்லு மந்திரம் ஏதடா
நட்டகல்லும் பேசுமோ நாதனுள்ளிருக்கையில்
சுட்டசட்டி சட்டுவம்கறிச்சுவை அறியுமோ
சட்டையிட்டு மணிதுலங்கும் சாத்திரச் சழக்கரே
பொத்தகத்தை மெத்தவைத்துப் போதமோதும் பொய்யரே
நிட்டைஏது ஞானமேது? நீரிருந்த அட்சரம்
பட்டைஏது? சொல்லீரே பாதகக் கபடரே?
6. DD - These poems convey nothing - and You are egotistical and out of control!
Answer 6 May Lord Rama give you peace of mind!! OM
sangom
0
Shri tks,
Your post is very timely and appropriate, to put it mildly. I have also not been visiting this "mammoth" of a monologue kind of thread, but, the developments elsewhere led me to follow whatever was happening here in this "thread-world"!
The problem here ( and for the Tamilbrahmins.com as a whole also) has been, for the past some time, that members have forgotten the wisdom contained in "நட்டகல்லும் பேசுமோ நாதனுள்ளிருக்கையில்" and the நட்டகல்s seem to have become the focus.
May be Shri Praveen should make a thorough review of what has been going on for some time past and, if necessary, start a separate section (like GD, religion, chit-chat, etc.) with the label "Vaishnavam only".
Raji Ram
Active member
Reservation policy, Sir?
Then the '' % ''might become the next issue!
Vaagmi
0
And..... too much confusion in finding the fusion! Please try to learn properly about rAgams.
whatever I say is final. Valmiki is wrong and I am right. The ragas are what they are as told by me. I will annihilate people who fail to agree with me. When bhavayami becomes Broohi mukundeti, it is fusion. and if I say swati tirunal prayed before Sadasiva B. While semmangudi was watching, you have to agree. That is final.
OP
OP
Ref # 15603 posted by Shri tks.
Dear Mr. TKS,
I can never thank you enough Sir.
ray2:
You are so knowledgeable that I feel so much like the
squirrel which tried to help in the Sethu Bandanam.
The long time wish and efforts of many people has finally born fruits.
My thread got moved from G.D as per their long standing wish.
Now I have reached a stage when I do not have to be in the G.D for people to find me and read my posts.
I thank God for that! :hail:
I guess that since it makes everyone happy "So be it!" :amen:
Additional advantages as far as I am concerned:
1. It will not be misfit - as it did,where it existed till now.
2. It will not be an eyesore inviting more problems
3. It is along with my own other threads bundled under
"Inspirations and Motivations" which sounds good.
4. My sincere Thanks to Mr praveen for saving me from
unnecessary KaN echchil in the future.
Thanks to Shri TKS for sparing and spending so much time
for preparing a reply so unique and undebatable even by D.Ds
காலத்தினாற் செய்த நன்றி சிறிதெனினும்
ஞாலத்தின் மாணப் பெரிது.
I wish the B.B s and D.D s would learn to divert their energy towards constructive purposes from now on!ray:
Dear Mr. TKS,
I can never thank you enough Sir.
ray2:You are so knowledgeable that I feel so much like the
squirrel which tried to help in the Sethu Bandanam.
The long time wish and efforts of many people has finally born fruits.
My thread got moved from G.D as per their long standing wish.
Now I have reached a stage when I do not have to be in the G.D for people to find me and read my posts.
I thank God for that! :hail:
I guess that since it makes everyone happy "So be it!" :amen:
Additional advantages as far as I am concerned:
1. It will not be misfit - as it did,where it existed till now.
2. It will not be an eyesore inviting more problems
3. It is along with my own other threads bundled under
"Inspirations and Motivations" which sounds good.
4. My sincere Thanks to Mr praveen for saving me from
unnecessary KaN echchil in the future.
Thanks to Shri TKS for sparing and spending so much time
for preparing a reply so unique and undebatable even by D.Ds
காலத்தினாற் செய்த நன்றி சிறிதெனினும்
ஞாலத்தின் மாணப் பெரிது.
I wish the B.B s and D.D s would learn to divert their energy towards constructive purposes from now on!
ray:
Just to clarify, this thread and few others have been moved because of a reorganization of the forum sections. And def not because of anyone's long standing wish. If that had been the case, it would have been moved long time ago.
OP
OP
I thank my mother for giving us her inner strength
and my father for giving us a keen sense of humor.
But for these I could not have survived
in this hostile world all these years.
I dedicate this short movie to the memory of my dear parents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rNcOCdT2Mw
and my father for giving us a keen sense of humor.
But for these I could not have survived
in this hostile world all these years.
I dedicate this short movie to the memory of my dear parents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rNcOCdT2Mw
OP
OP
Just to clarify, this thread and few others have been moved because of a reorganization of the forum sections. And def not because of anyone's long standing wish. If that had been the case, it would have been moved long time ago.
Thank you Mr. praveen for the carification.
I am happy since you seem to have created
a new sub heading exclusivlely for me!
ray2:
Raji Ram
Active member
Vaagmi
0
Thank you Mr. praveen for the carification.
I am happy since you seem to have created
a new sub heading exclusivlely for me!
What is this special new sub heading exclusively created for "me"?
Mr. Praveen please explain.
Raji Ram
Active member
Not for you, Sir! :sorry:
Please go to the top of this page and find it out!
Vaagmi
0
Not for you, Sir! :sorry:
Please go to the top of this page and find it out!
I reproduced the "me" from the top post. You missed the point. How sad! LOL.
So I will continue to be critical of it whenever a lie is posted by any one. LOL.
Raji Ram
Active member
No need to feel sad, Sir ! :nono:
I saw ''me'' in quotes and understood. Was just kidding!
But, it is really sad that you needed Praveen's help to find out the sub heading! :tsk:
Nothing. Just reorganization of topics thats all.
OP
OP
The innocent victim
The ways Divine Destiny works
Can't be understood by the jerks.
They throw a well aimed brick;
Or settle for a massive stick!
Their aim is, the head to break
Of the people thay can't take.
It should be a piece of cake,
Since the victim has to take,
The blow delivered by the Jake.
There is none to fight for his sake!
But he has a faith hard to shake,
And bears with a grin the ache!
Since his faith is not just a fake
There comes a minor earth quake!
Leaving him with riches hard to rake,
Causing his foes to crumble and slake.
The likes of him always feel at ease. :angel:
The others may never find any peace. :mad2:
Moral:
Do good to the bad - since you are good.
Their bad turns good - since you are good.
Dedicated to
The irresistable forces which keep trying :ballchain:
to dislodge the immovable object! :hail: :hail: :hail:
A useful tip which might be necessary for a few.
One of the many names of the immovable object is SthaaNu!
The ways Divine Destiny works
Can't be understood by the jerks.
They throw a well aimed brick;
Or settle for a massive stick!
Their aim is, the head to break
Of the people thay can't take.
It should be a piece of cake,
Since the victim has to take,
The blow delivered by the Jake.
There is none to fight for his sake!
But he has a faith hard to shake,
And bears with a grin the ache!
Since his faith is not just a fake
There comes a minor earth quake!
Leaving him with riches hard to rake,
Causing his foes to crumble and slake.
The likes of him always feel at ease. :angel:
The others may never find any peace. :mad2:
Moral:
Do good to the bad - since you are good.
Their bad turns good - since you are good.
Dedicated to
The irresistable forces which keep trying :ballchain:
to dislodge the immovable object! :hail: :hail: :hail:
A useful tip which might be necessary for a few.
One of the many names of the immovable object is SthaaNu!
Last edited:
OP
OP
The best one I have watched till today! :rofl:
The Busy Bodies are here to Beat the Blues!!! :roll:
https://youtu.be/THXCssvJtHc
The Busy Bodies are here to Beat the Blues!!! :roll:
https://youtu.be/THXCssvJtHc
OP
OP
A fine chain reaction this one is!!!
Restless days => sleepless nights => baseless fears => tasteless routine => useless life!
Restless days => sleepless nights => baseless fears => tasteless routine => useless life!
OP
OP
There is a lot of difference between ' a busy person' and ' a busy body'! :decision:
The first kind indulge in productive activities and the second kind in wasteful activites.
The first kind mind their own business and the second kind mind everybody else's business.
The first kind indulge in productive activities and the second kind in wasteful activites.
The first kind mind their own business and the second kind mind everybody else's business.
OP
OP
Three avatars out of the Dasaavataara were named as Rama
Parasu Rama, Raghu Rama and Bala Rama.
Looking for a Rama/ any Rama anywhere will be like
searching for a needle lost in a hay stack.
Parasu Rama, Raghu Rama and Bala Rama.
Looking for a Rama/ any Rama anywhere will be like
searching for a needle lost in a hay stack.
OP
OP
If a God is named after a bhakta, was the God
an anaamika (nameless) before the bhakta was born???
An additional name to the existing ones may be possible.
If so, what was the original name before the bhakta was born???
an anaamika (nameless) before the bhakta was born???
An additional name to the existing ones may be possible.
If so, what was the original name before the bhakta was born???
Vaagmi
0
please refer to post #15575:
People with culture would have apologised for an indescretion committed in blinding anger. Those who do not have that would continue to lecture.
All the lectures would be meaningless untill an apology is tendered.
Either apologise or annihilate me as promised.
I am writing this again because people here should know what kind of a member they are reading when lofty lecturing is done without the basic culture.
I demand an apology. I deserve it because I am hurt.
Last edited:
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