Two more tests for evidence of spiritual energy

[sravna]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

Dear Sravna Sir,

We are concerned about your welfare ONLY.

Thank you Smt.RR I do really appreciate it and thankful for it.

 

[raysundar]

Sravna,
I see that finally you have accepted the fact that spiritual powers are just that and cannot be scientifically examined. They are two different aspects of human nature, the scientific/materialistic and the spiritual. There may be occasional cause-effect relations between spiritual and scientific observations but it is only by the laws of chance/probability. According to the most recent Quantum theories nature is probabilistic and cannot be predicted with absolute certainty. There is always a most likely result but that includes a very low probability of some untoward results which people sometimes attribute to spiritual or other powers.
So my advise would be to keep science and spirituality as separate topics for now.
My experimental work with you was to finally arrive at this conclusion.
No I did not force this but that is the nature of things.
Even Einstein disagreed on this fact saying God does not play dice with nature. He expected a more deterministic solution for nature. But most recent Quantum mechanics equations for nature are probabilistic only.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sundar,

I am of the view that nature is not probabilistic. It is absurd to interpret experimental results that way. I believe that future is laid out and presents itself in accordance with that.

 

[sravna]

Quantum mechanics is not a completely correct theory. Anything physical is quantum in nature but nature is beyond the phsyical and I think that is where quantum mechanics fails. At one level it is a spectacularly correct description while at another it totally fails.

 

[sravna]

I agree with that part of theory which talks about dual nature of everything the dual nature being particle and wave. I interpret the duality as physical-spiritual and so everything in the physical world has aspects of both.

 

[renuka]

Quantum mechanics is not a completely correct theory. Anything physical is quantum in nature but nature is beyond the phsyical and I think that is where quantum mechanics fails. At one level it is a spectacularly correct description while at another it totally fails.

Dear Sravna,

Prakirti a.k.a Nature can be divided into Apara Prakirti and Para Prakirti.


Matter is Apara Prakirti..its physical.

Consciousness is Para Prakirti which is of a higher nature.


Therefore its not entirely right when you say that Nature is beyond the Physical.

Bhagavad Geeta states clearly that Apara Prakirti is Matter.

Matter ..my dear is Physical.

 

[sravna]

Renuka,

Sorry. I meant beyond just the physical.

 

[raysundar]

Dear Shri Sundar,

I am of the view that nature is not probabilistic. It is absurd to interpret experimental results that way. I believe that future is laid out and presents itself in accordance with that.

You are entitled to your views. But nature is unpredictable, but with highly probabilistic results only. You think you can control nature with Spiritual powers. You can keep on attempting your Spiritual experiments of controlling outcomes of nature and when once in a while due to probability an outcome matches your desired result, you immediately jump on that to claim you did it. I am sorry its all in God's/Nature's hands and you are just a victim of nature.
God has given man the intellect to keep exploring nature to man's advantage, but man can never conquer nature.
The duality principle is about the physical body and the Soul, not matter as wave and particle existence.
Soul is the consciousness required to study and understand the physical nature.

 

[prasad1]

You are entitled to your views. But nature is unpredictable, but with highly probabilistic results only. You think you can control nature with Spiritual powers. You can keep on attempting your Spiritual experiments of controlling outcomes of nature and when once in a while due to probability an outcome matches your desired result, you immediately jump on that to claim you did it. I am sorry its all in God's/Nature's hands and you are just a victim of nature.
God has given man the intellect to keep exploring nature to man's advantage, but man can never conquer nature.
The duality principle is about the physical body and the Soul, not matter as wave and particle existence.
Soul is the consciousness required to study and understand the physical nature.

Now before you give a final verdict:

The crow gets up on the roof and crows, then only the sun rises. :first:

 

[raysundar]

Now before you give a final verdict:

The crow gets up on the roof and crows, then only the sun rises. :first:

The Cock not crow!
The crow sat on the palm tree hence the palm tree fell down!
A lot of such sayings are there in Tamil which are often used to ridicule logical thinkers.

 

[renuka]

The crow sat on the palm tree hence the palm tree fell down!

[FONT=&quot] Kakathaliya![/FONT]

 

[sravna]

You are entitled to your views. But nature is unpredictable, but with highly probabilistic results only. You think you can control nature with Spiritual powers. You can keep on attempting your Spiritual experiments of controlling outcomes of nature and when once in a while due to probability an outcome matches your desired result, you immediately jump on that to claim you did it. I am sorry its all in God's/Nature's hands and you are just a victim of nature.
God has given man the intellect to keep exploring nature to man's advantage, but man can never conquer nature.
The duality principle is about the physical body and the Soul, not matter as wave and particle existence.
Soul is the consciousness required to study and understand the physical nature.

Dear Shri Sundar,

The unpredictability is not in nature but seems so because of our inability to interpret nature. Nature is logical and works according to precise laws. The contradictions and mystery arise only when we try to restrict the scope to physical universe and try to explain everything within that scope.

 

[renuka]

Renuka,

Sorry. I meant beyond just the physical.

Dear Sravna,


Even the physical we humans have not deciphered everything and I feel there is so much we might not even decipher..so thinking of going beyond anything is surely not within the scope of the human mind for now.

In future we might know more or even unlearn more.

Therefore logically we should be grounded to take small steps instead of a leap into The Beyond and have no landing at all.

 

[Raji Ram]

........ The crow sat on the palm tree hence the palm tree fell down!
A lot of such sayings are there in Tamil which are often used to ridicule logical thinkers.

Dear R S Sir,

It is not the palm tree; it is only the palm fruit!

The adage is 'kAkkai utkArap panam pazham vizhundhadhAm!'
A story in Tamil related to this adage follows! Happy reading. :ranger:

 

[renuka]

Dear Shri Sundar,

The unpredictability is not in nature but seems so because of out inability to interpret nature. Nature is logical and works according to precise laws. The contradictions and mystery arise only when we try to restrict the scope to physical universe and try to explain everything within that scope.

Dear Sravna,

You might have a point here that Nature could be logical and predictable but we havent learnt to decipher it yet.

Therefore its logical to go about reading the signs and symptoms of nature and its flow instead of violating it causing pollution,climatic changes etc..this is "rape" of nature and the imbalance created by us humans makes nature react in what we assume is unpredictable but we fail to see its just a reaction to our action.

Its like every reaction of Nature is accordance to the Karmic law of our actions.


Likewise even usage of Spiritual power is considered violating nature cos none of us have any idea of its side effects.

 

[renuka]

Dear R S Sir,

It is not the palm tree; it is only the palm fruit!

The adage is 'kAkkai utkArap panam pazham vizhundhadhAm!'
A story in Tamil related to this adage follows! Happy reading. :ranger:

Dear RR ji,

In Sanskrit [FONT=&quot] Kakathaliya....the story goes that the crow sat on the palm tree and the palm leaf fell.[/FONT]

 

[Raji Ram]

Story time:

அந்த ஆண்டு ஆந்திராவில் மழையே பெய்யவில்லை. அதனால் ஏரி, குளம், குட்டை அனைத்தும் வறண்டு கிடந்தன.

அதனால் விவசாயம் நடைபெறவில்லை. அதனால் தண்ணீர்ப் பஞ்சமும் உணவுப் பஞ்சமும் தலை விரித்தாடியது.

அப்போது அக்கிராமத்துக்கு ஒரு சாமியார் வந்து சேர்ந்தார். அவர் வந்து சேர்ந்த அன்றே பலமான மழை பெய்யத்

தொடங்கியது. ஆறு, ஏரி, குளம், குட்டை எல்லாம் நிரம்பிவிட்டன.

சாமியார் வந்ததன் காரணமாகத்தான் நல்ல மழை பெய்துள்ளது என்று எண்ணிய அவ்வூர் மக்கள் சாமியாரை வாயாரப்

புகழ்ந்து அவரை வணங்கி ஆசி பெற்றனர். இதை பார்த்துக் கொண்டிருந்த தெனாலி ராமன் கலகலவென நகைத்துக்

கொண்டிருந்தான். இதைப் பார்த்த சாமியார், தெனாலிராமனை அருகில் அழைத்து, ' தம்பி நீ ஏன் சிரிக்கிறாய்?' என

வினவினார். அதற்கு தெனாலிராமன், 'மழை பெய்வதும் பெய்யாமல் போவதும் இறைவன் செயலே. அப்படியிருக்க,

தாங்கள் வந்தவுடன் தங்கள் மகிமையால்தான் மழை பெய்துள்ளது என்று மக்கள் எண்ணுவது ஒரு பனை மரத்தில்

நன்கு பழுத்துள்ள பனம் பழம் கீழே விழும் நேரத்தில் காக்கை உட்கார்ந்ததாம். காக்கை உட்கார்ந்ததும் பனம் பழம்

கீழே விழுந்ததாம். அப்போது அதை பார்த்தவர்கள் காக்கை உட்கார்ந்ததனால் தான் பனம் பழம் விழுந்தது என்று

சொன்னார்களாம். அது போலவே இவ்வூர் மக்கள் செயலும் இருந்ததால் தான் சிரித்தேன்' என்றான் தெனாலிராமன்.

இதைக் கேட்ட சாமியார் உண்மையை உணர்ந்து அவன் மேல் கோபப்படவில்லை. 'தம்பி உன்னிடம் திறமை இருக்கிறது.

நீ காளி மகாதேவியின் அருளைப் பெற்றால் பிற்காலத்தில் புகழ் பெற்று விளங்குவாய்!' என்று நல்லாசி கூறினார்.

continued...........

 

[Raji Ram]

இதைக் கேட்ட தெனாலிராமன் காளிமகாதேவியின் சந்நிதியை அடைந்தான். அவளின் திருஉருவத்தைக் காணப் பலவாறு

வேண்டித் தவம் இருந்தான். கடைசியில் தெனாலிராமன் முன் தோன்றினாள் காளிதேவி. அவளது உருவத்தைப் பார்த்துப்

பயப்படுவதற்குப் பதிலாக, பலமாக சிரித்தான். அவன் சிரிப்பதைப் பார்த்த காளிதேவி, 'என் கோர உருவத்தைப் பார்த்து

எல்லோரும் அஞ்சுவார்கள். நீயோ பலமாகச் சிரிக்கிறாய்?' ஏன் என்று வினவினாள். அதற்கு தெனாலிராமன், 'எனக்குச்

சளிபிடித்தால் என்னுடைய ஒரு மூக்கைச் சிந்துவதற்கு என்னுடைய இரண்டு கைகளே போதவில்லை. அப்படியிருக்க

உனக்கு ஆயிரம் தலை உள்ளது. ஆனால் கைகள் இரண்டே பெற்றுள்ளாய். உனக்குச் சளிபிடித்தால் ஆயிரம் மூக்கையும்

எப்படி இரண்டு கைகளால் சிந்துவாய் என்று எண்ணினேன். அதனால் எனக்குச் சிரிப்பு வந்ததது!' என்றான். இதைக் கேட்ட

காளிமகாதேவியே சிரித்து விட்டாள். பின், 'மகனே உன்னை ஆசீர்வதிக்கிறேன். பெரும் பேரும் புகழும் பெற்றுத் திகழ்வாய்.

உனக்குக் கஷ்டம் நேரும் போதெல்லாம் என்னை நினை. உனக்கு உதவி செய்கிறேன்' எனக் கூறி மறைந்தாள் காளிதேவி.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear RR ji,

In Sanskrit Kakathaliya....the story goes that the crow sat on the palm tree and the palm leaf fell.

Dear Renu,

I know only the Tamil adage and story!!

BTW, what is the story for the saying in Sanskrit? Can you share it here?

 

[Raji Ram]

Source for the Tamil story posted above is Thenali Raman Stories

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

I know only the Tamil adage and story!!

BTW, what is the story for the saying in Sanskrit? Can you share it here?

Dear RR ji,

Kakathaliya..the version I read was the Crow sat on the palm tree and palm leaf fell.

Thali in Sanskrit means Palm Leaf.



But there are also versions you can find online that says Kakathaliya but its the palm fruit that fell.

I feel the 1st version is correct cos in Sanskrit Thali means Palm Leaf and not Palm Fruit.

Kakathaliya is used to denote a Coincidence.

 

[Raji Ram]

Thank you Renu.

A few minutes back, a coconut leaf fell from the tree in our back yard, when a crow flew over it!! :lol:

 

[renuka]

Thank you Renu.

A few minutes back, a coconut leaf fell from the tree in our back yard, when a crow flew over it!! :lol:

The crow did not have to sit on the leaf!LOL

 

[sravna]

Folks,

Many are beginning to realize the truth in spirituality. It is the logical course of what the world is going through because everyone eventually wants peace.

Of course there are many with vested interests who would like continue the status quo by any means but sadly they seem to be oblivious of the self destructive nature of this thinking. Let us hope better sense prevails on them too.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,


Even the physical we humans have not deciphered everything and I feel there is so much we might not even decipher..so thinking of going beyond anything is surely not within the scope of the human mind for now.

In future we might know more or even unlearn more.

Therefore logically we should be grounded to take small steps instead of a leap into The Beyond and have no landing at all.

Dear Renuka,

It is necessary to grasp the big picture first than go step by step and that was exactly my point. Otherwise you do not know whether you are taking the right steps.